So question my friends, I recently left the LDS Inc. so I'm fairly new to getting the questions as to why I left. However, the recent one is that people are asking how I could not know the church is true when they found that the DNA that was proven false was just found to actually link the natives with people in Jerusalem. Can anybody shed any light? Thanks.

First off, congrats on leaving the cult!

Second, your question confuses me. Are you asking for info/sources in regards to DNA showing Native American lineage doesn't link to the Jews? Or are you saying that TBMs are saying there IS DNA proving Jews are ancestors of Native Americans and you'd like those sources?

I bet it's the latter. I hope SLCabbie weighs in! It's in my mind that there is an LDS pseudo-scientist claiming a 'find' that "blows a hole" in the no Middle East DNA in Native Americans. But it's not true.

Yeah, this was an article my dad sent me with the hopes that it would make me question my decision of leaving the church. Lol


http://www.nativeamericanhere.com/uncategorized/dna-scientists-claim-that-cherokees-are-from-the-middle-east/4/


That's when you just hold your tongue because you don't want your dad to feel stupid and just respond with a, "oh, cool. Thanks, dad. Interesting stuff". haha



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2016 09:21PM by Elders Quorum Drop-out.

"when they found that the DNA that was proven false was just found to actually link the natives with people in Jerusalem"

Hard to follow that, but I presume you're asking about the so-called Cherokee link to Middle Eastern DNA? That topic comes up regularly. Mormons say "the natives" as if they know what they're talking about, which they invariably don't. No Native DNA links to Jerusalem.

Read these recent threads, and don't forget to follow the links (to older threads) within the posts themselves.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1855716
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1860147

Just to add, you can tell those "people that are asking" that if DNA was actually, genuinely found that somehow linked Native Americans directly to 600 BCE Jerusalem, it would be plastered all over the Ensign and the Desperate News, and it would be a huge topic at General Conference. The GAs wouldn't stop talking about it.

But the church never says a word about it. Why do you suppose that is?

Any link between Native American DNA and Old World DNA (including Semitic, Middle Eastern, Jewish, whatever) is either recent (last 500 years) or ancient (over ten thousand years ago). Both are well outside Book of Mormon time frames and do nothing to prove "the church is true." In fact, the ancient time frame involving DNA connections between the Old and New Worlds proves that the Mormon teachings of a worldwide flood and six-thousand-year history of humanity (since "the Fall") are false.

I'm sure other posters will be along soon to fill in the details.

: )

Ask them why the LDS DNA essay says they are wrong.

"arguments that some defenders of the Book of Mormon make based on DNA studies are also speculative. In short, DNA studies cannot be used decisively to either affirm or reject the historical authenticity of the Book of Mormon."
https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies?lang=eng

Yeah, my dad once sent me some Rod Meldrum video on DNA. He was very excited about how "legit" it all sounded.

I simply responded that Meldrum had been debunked, and that if his theory was sound it would have been touted in the church's essay on DNA. Then I included a link to the essay.

Oh, and I also told him that he could go read some of Simon Southerton's work, with the caution that he was an exmormon. I doubt he followed up with that. It probably scared the shit out of him.

I will let SL Cabbie explain the details of the DNA evidence, as he is far more knowledgeable on those details than I. However, I will say that there is absolutely no DNA evidence to support the BoM claims. Quite the opposite in fact, all the evidence supports migration coming from the Bering Straight.

That said, I would also point out that there is absolutely zero, and I mean zero, archaeological evidence (supported by DNA) to support the BoM claims. Again, all the evidence shows the exact opposite.

The link is from the wrong time period, its ancient and refutes the bom and really the entire traditional christian view of the world. DNA shows we all came from Africa, wrap your head around that dark skin hating mormons. Ok, so they stopped hating as much in 1978.

The best thing I have ever heard refuting the BOM is Michael Coe's interview in Mormon Stories.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-22/world-first-study-reveals-rich-history-of-aboriginal-australians/7858376

Here is one that isn't specific to North America, but it does talk about how the human race started in Africa.

And yes the time lines are off and you have to conviniently forget facts about the X2a DNA linage.

This is a great blog to start reading about the recent claims.

http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/

Even after a night behind the wheel. I think it best, though, that we turn to our own genetic Wizard of Oz, Simon Southerton, and I promise you, he's no humbug.

(Ah come on, eat your corn flakes... /joke stealing voice off)

First however, what I see as noteworthy is that the link to the "Cherokee Claims" has absolutely nothing to do with pre-Columbian "intercourse" (read that one any way you want to; I'm including the social/cultural varieties as well).

I'm not familiar with late 16th and early 17th century "Iberian Sephardic Jews and Moorish Conversos" having settled in North America; I know Florida was a Spanish colony and didn't become a United States territory until 1821. And there was doubtless trade, etc. between the those living on the southeast coast of North America and the Caribbean...

That history is irrelevant as far as pre-Columbian DNA in Native Americans is concerned. So I'm inclined to let the Cherokees tend to their own business. The three federally recognized tribes have their own "membership requirements," but I don't find it unreasonable to believe runaway slaves, free blacks, others, etc. would find acceptance in Native American cultures. I don't have the time nor the inkling to become an expert, however. There's a nice argument on tribal membership brewing here in Utah that I am digging into, and I promise you, Brigham Young's ghost ain't gonna like what I'm going to publish.

Simon has a new blog out (yay!) on Keith Crandall, a former BYU "scientist" (I would remove the quotes because his credentials are legitimate, and he wasn't baptized until after coming to BYU, but he was shanghaied into doing some writings for FAIR). It looks to me like Simon is suggesting these days Crandall may be a little publicity-shy on this subject.

http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com

You can take the science that follows to the bank, and what Dr. Southerton is saying is there is no DNA evidence for a pre-Columbian presence of Hebrews or other Middle East people in either North or South America.

>The truth is that scientific research has consistently failed to uncover reliable evidence for the presence of any ancient Hebrews, or their genes, in pre-Columbian Mesoamerica or throughout the New World.

>Mormon apologists are often fond of citing a study, featured in National Geographic, that claimed a "connection" between European and Native Americans. They appear to purposely obscure the reality at the evidence is 24,000 years old.

http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/2016/02/response-to-claim-13-of-native-american.html

>Response to the claim 1/3 of Native American DNA came from the Middle East - now that would be a Great Surprise

>Some Mormons have been claiming that a recently published human genomics research paper offers support for the belief that Native Americans have Jewish ancestors. The paper causing the excitement was published in the Jan 2013 issue of Nature, one of the most prestigious scientific journals. The article in question was written by Raghavan et al. and entitled “Upper Palaeolithic Siberian Genome Reveals Dual Ancestry of Native Americans.” The paper would have gone unnoticed by Mormons had a National Geographic journalist not sensationalised it with the following hyperbole.

SL Cabbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not familiar with late 16th and early 17th
> century "Iberian Sephardic Jews and Moorish
> Conversos" having settled in North America; I know
> Florida was a Spanish colony and didn't become a
> United States territory until 1821. And there was
> doubtless trade, etc. between the those living on
> the southeast coast of North America and the
> Caribbean...

Fact: There is no indication, from any source (including DNA), of pre-Columbian contact between Native Americans and Jews.

"Contact" began with Columbus and his crew (at least most of whom---and very probably ALL of whom---were of Jewish descent...and this is now well-established, historical fact).

In New Mexico today, there is a statewide effort to get descendants of the original Spaniards who explored and settled New Mexico in for DNA tests, because there is a gene that leads to deadly breast cancer which is being passed down in those lines, and it is a serious medical situation. (The overwhelming majority of Hispanic New Mexicans, most especially in the north of New Mexico, are direct descendants of Spanish conversos (also known as: crypto-Jews...anusim...marranos---whatever name you choose to call them, they are Jews of Spanish and Portuguese origin).

On YouTube, there is a hour documentary: "Hidden Heritage of New Mexico: Then & Now-The 400 Year Old Secret" (the Spaniards arrived in what is now New Mexico in 1598). This was produced to explain to (mostly) New Mexicans, or those of Hispanic New Mexican heritage, why this problem of breast cancer happened, and why it is important for them (and those related to them) to get screened.

There is also a REALLY excellent and interesting series on Sephardic history (which includes the Sephardim who eventually landed in what is now the United States), on YouTube also (in eight parts: 1a..1b...2...3...4...5...6a...6b), by Benjamin Gampel (a professor at Jewish Theological Seminary in NYC---where Conservative rabbis-to-be get their academic credentials before they are ordained). (Some of the lectures are shorter than others, most are around 20-30 minutes long---I listened to them when I was working in the kitchen over several days.)

["Sephardim" are Spanish and Portuguese of Jewish origin---some were forced to convert to Catholicism, others were forced to leave the Iberian Peninsula, and others were tortured and murdered, either in Spain, or in the New World after the Inquisition came over to this side of the Atlantic Ocean. As a result, many Spaniards (and later, Mexicans) attempted (mostly very successfully) to hide their Jewish heritage---regardless of what their personal religious convictions actually were...something that lasted up until about the 1970s, when some began exploring their Jewish ancestral roots. Now, with this problem of breast cancer (which is so serious that insurance companies will pay for more expensive screening and treatment), Hispanic Jewish ancestry in the Southwest is almost completely out in the open, at least in increasing numbers of Hispanic families.]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2016 03:47PM by Tevai.