The past several days have been pretty awkward. My mom sends me e-mails telling me she loves me, but expresses disappointment that I'm not willing to attend church, and that I've "turned my back on God".

My parents are resolute in their decision to cut off financial support. What's worse is that my father refuses to even acknowledge me. I called on Mother's Day, and my dad just said nothing and walked off when my mom offered him the phone. She started crying and said she had to go.

I've pretty much made up my mind to go back home and start living life on my own terms. The problem is my parents are obviously taking it very hard. My mom has been talking about how her only purpose in life is to make sure we all get to the CK together, and how she'll do anything necessary to push for that.

I realize I won't be able to count on them for help in transitioning into my adult life because of this, but at the same I really ache to hear her say stuff like that. Doesn't she realize life is so much bigger than the confines of Mormon doctrine?

How have others here dealt with this kind of thing? I've been trying to give my mom lots of reassurance, telling her that I love her, that she's important to me, and that I'm grateful for everything she's done for me until now. She in turn tells me she loves me and that I'm a fine person, but that I'm basically messing up her purpose in life, and that she's heartbroken that I don't believe in the church anymore.

That's not even touching on my dad. He hasn't uttered a word to me in days, and I suspect that won't change for awhile.

How have others on this board dealt with similar issues? These are my parents, so I love them, and I'm genuinely sorry that they're hurting. At the same time, though, I know I can't compromise myself. It's just hard to know how to engage them and offer support for the pain they're going through.

Thanks.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2011 02:43AM by faboo.

It is not your job to offer them support. They have wrapped themselves in a blanket and will have to make their own decisions. You have to take care of you. You need to go on with your life, even through this very tough phase, and concentrate on yourself.

Your parents are adults. They are free to choose, and so are you. I think it's unpredictable how they will react in the long run. Your compassion for them exceeds their compassion for you at the moment. It's likely making their minds spin (the All about Family bit).

I admire your bravery and intellectual honesty. For me, later (a lot later) me and the parents developed a delicate relationship. There were long periods of non-communication, but I was became so involved with school, friends, career and new experiences (also, I moved far away) that it didn't sting so much. Good luck to you and hope you develop a healty support system quickly.

to their emotionally manipulative angst~! Don't even read their emails for awhile. Don't make phone calls. Send a card for Father's Day and just sign it. Give him nothing more. Give them time to grow up and act like adults!

Your decisions are not about them. They are being very selfish and rude.

You are not responsible for your mothers's goals in life, only your own. Remember that they are choosing their attitude and behavior. They don't have to act like little children that didn't get candy for dessert!

If your father can't at least be civil, probably best to ignore him and let him stew on his own. It's OK to cut the cord to your parents and separate yourself from them.

Generally, people can't stay mad forever. Usually they adjust to changes in the beliefs of their family and stop making it about them!

Find people who are fun to be around and laugh a lot! Get involved in so many fun things you don't have time to even think about your parents!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2011 01:57AM by SusieQ#1.

They may get over it in time. Or not. All you can do is your best.

Give them time. You need to concentrate on building a new life for yourself now. You have your freedom, now go and enjoy your life.

I was only attending church to keep my Father happy. If my leaving bothered my mother I never knew about it. I think she was happy for me to leave. I was lucky in that my brother had been in active on and off for years, so they knew how to deal with it. My Father was broken hearted when I left and never really understood why something that made him happy could have the opposite effect on him. He never gave up hope that I would return one day.

I now it sounds hard but, unlike you, I chose to leave after they had paid for my degree as I knew financial support would be cut off as a means to keep me in the church. To complete my degree the only option was to continue attending church, which I did in the most minimal way possible. I was studying at a British university twenty two years ago and I simply would not have been able to obtain enough alternative funding to cover my living expenses back then. But getting that degree gave me the means both emotional and financial to leave so ultimately it was worth it.

They're pinning their happiness to your adult decisions. That isn't fair or logical.

It's time for you to grapple with life as a adult, and they're going to somehow have to give up control over you. Mormonism set them up to think they can continue to direct you as if you were still a child. It's their church causing this pain. You've done nothing wrong to cause this problem.

I know it hurts to see them this way, but somehow they'll survive and it's their choice if they continue to suffer or if they'll grow up and become adults. At this point, they're showing less maturity than you are, and that's difficult for everyone in the family.

Good luck. All I can say is stay strong for your own sake and don't take on their hurt because you didn't cause it and can't do much about it.

One thing your mother's not understanding is that you are not responsible for her happiness, and especially not for making sure that "her" purpose in life has been fulfilled.

That may be something you need to point out to her. The only people responsible for our own happiness is ourselves.

You can't live the way your mother wants you to live, just for her. It could go on like that for a while, but sooner or later living a charade is exhausting, and we do tend to revert back to being ourselves. Then they say, "You've changed so much!" But we say, "No, I didn't change. I'm finally being true to myself."

Tell her to find happiness within herself and stop trying to be manipulative. That's what my mother did when I became an adult and I let her know that she couldn't tell me what to do anymore. She just started to be manipulative instead, or tried the guilt tactics.

The sooner you start to live your life according to your own sense of honesty and integrity, the sooner they'll learn to deal with it. Putting it off does no one any favours.

How did other people deal with disapointed parents?

I made it through high school, got a job at McDonalds, a car, and left. I was homeless in my car rather than do the church thing anymore.

And yet, if I visited on the weekend, they would ask me to go to church. No!
My mom would bring out one of her skirts and tell me to stick around and I could just wear that and it would be fine...
Yeah, I was a skinny little size 5 to my mom's size 18. Like that would make church a good experience...

I think now they were in such denial about why I left. My mother now refers to my "troubled teen years". I just roll my eyes. It's like they don't want to remember why I left, couldn't have been them, the church, their demands, surely it was only my problem.


Live well, it is the best revenge.

My mother was constantly disappointed in me. The way that it stopped is that I began calling her on her criticism. I simply told her that whenever she criticized me, I would walk away. I followed up on it and did just that.

At first she was so surprised when I'd walk away mid-sentence. Even if I came over to the house to visit, if I walked in the door and the first thing she said was a criticism, I'd just silently turn around and walk right back out the door again.

It worked. Once she didn't have an audience anymore, she stopped. Having me walk away each time made her aware of how many critical things she said.

Now I live with my parents again and my relationship with my mother is pretty good, for the first time in my life. I feel respected by her for the first time.

I had to get into my 50s for that to happen, but it didn't happen until I took my own power back and demanded to be respected.

It's your life, you have to do what you want to be happy.

Once we move out on our own, parents do not have a say in our life and how we live it. However, if you are still dependent on parents for living, in school, etc... they still have some right to attach expectations on what is expected. If we don't meet those expectations, they have that freedom to withdrawal that support.

Yes, it's sad and wrong, but each person is different.

And when you become a parent in the future, you know how you will not raise and treat your children.

Best of luck and once they see you are serious and happy, things may change in time. Maybe not a lot, but some. I have a good relationship with my parents, the church is just not brought up. It makes for short conversations at times, but it is what it is.

You cannot be your delusional parents' idea of a dutiful son/daughter, stop trying.
Your parents are making unreasonable demands.

Your job in life is to become your own person.

I would just stop calling and taking calls from her for a bit. You don't need to be constantly hounded about how you're destroying her celestial family.

Then the next time she calls be firm about her emotional manipulation and repeat the above if she continues to harp on you. Repeat as neccessary.

It's been over 10 years since my TBM mom started this kind of emotional manipulation and it cost her a decent relationship with almost every one of her kids.

Jesus plan was to let us choose and Satans plan was to force people and give them no choice.

Remind them they can not force you to believe in the Church anymore then a Muslim can make them believe in Islam.

When they tell you the worry about your salvation remind them Millions of Christians and Muslim believe Mormons are going to hell.

Your parents are not going to change their belief due to what others think and neither are you :)

I realize everyone's responsible for his/her own happiness. I guess it just breaks my heart that my mom puts so much of herself into getting everyone to the CK.

Granted, it's only been a few days, so maybe it's true that I'll need to give it more time before I figure out how to proceed. Hopefully I won't have to resort to anything like minimizing contact, since I was actually fairly close to my mother before now.

Also, I do, thankfully, have a degree, plus some experience abroad due to a scholarship I once earned, so I've got the tools to make it on my own. If this was for something like a BA or high school diploma, I'd just suck it up and go to church for however long it took to earn the thing. I'd like to get additional training in a different field someday, but I'll do it 100% on my own dime when that time comes.

The thing that will probably bother me is if they keep asking me about church after they've cut me off financially. I recognize it's their money and they can do what they want (even though the church stuff wasn't even a condition until a week ago), so I'm not mad about that, exactly. (A little hurt, yes, but not mad.) I'll just be put out if they keep hassling me after making a big deal about how I could do whatever I want on my own.

On the other hand, the church is very important to them, so I'll have to find a balance between being firm but respectful of their beliefs.

They want to know why I'm leaving. I typed up a rough draft, but I still need to polish it up in some places. Not looking forward to that conversation, but I don't blame them for wanting to hear it.

Thanks for the input and well wishes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2011 09:34AM by faboo.

The only regrets I find I have at middle age are any minutes, days or years I spent living anything but an authentic life.

I left the nest at 18. It wasn't easy at first. Over time my father and I became close. They really never could help me financailly anyway so that was all on me anyway.

Asd I got older I realized they were in a cult and I had to let go of any idea of a normal family life unless I chose to participate.

You will create a life for yourself that make you happy with people that love you for you.

It does feel like a loss because in a lot of ways it is.

They can never love us the way a non cult parent can due to there crazy beliefs.

As a good freind of mine told me "just keep your side of the street clean".

Good luck and try not to let there disappointment in your choice bleed over into what your real worth is.
Find and surround yourself with people who think you are fabulous for just bein who you are.

Just make sure that they know how disappointed you are in them.
How you will learn from the lesson they are teaching you and ensure that your children are never made to feel how they are making you feel.

Or, tell them you're gay and watch them pass out...

When I married my ex--I told him he had better never leave me because I could never tell my parents--I could never break their hearts. I thought it was my job to make them happy.

A few years back--a few years before my parents died--my mother was having another tantrum. I was about 48 years old. I went to my long-time therapist and told him what had transpired. He told me, "If you respond to her tantrums, you are a bad child."

NOBODY HAD EVER SAID IT THAT WAY BEFORE.

We are taught it is our job to make our parents happy. Not so.

He told me to quit responding to her tantrums. That for a while, they would get worse, but then they would quiet down. They did. They didn't completely disappear, but they improved. He told me to decide what I could do and what I wanted to do for my parents and ONLY DO THAT--it improved my relationship with them A LOT. It still wasn't perfect. My parents weren't extreme TBM--weren't able to help out much anyway (I have 2 disabled brothers who they had to put all their efforts into)--but by the time they died, they had both come to terms with my inactivity--especially my mother, who was more TBM than my father. Her last statement about my not believing was, "You don't have to attend any religion to be spiritual." She told my dad that.

Don't respond to her tantrums. Even if you wanted to make your mother happy--you can't--no matter what you do. That is her job, not your's. The sad thing is is that mormonism sets women up for thinking all their happiness is tied to their children. They sacrified their entire life for us and now they expect us to give back. It doesn't happen.

Yes I have dealt that with my parents when I married my ex mormon husband...they did our wedding and then my father declared me dead to him...he would not speak to me...we had always been close and I was desperately hurt...he wanted nothing to with me..said he'd never see any kids we might have and cut off all relations.

He had different reasons but the mormon church was right in the middle of the mess.

Like you I had finished my bachelors..had two young boys..my husband and I divorced and I was on my own.

My ex payed child support above what he had to and I went on to grad school. It was extremely hard..but i did it on my own...
Now after ten years we are together again..my parents cdied in a car accident..they never knew the boys and we were never reconciled...

You can do this..out won't be easy but it can be done..we are now somewhat battling tbm mom...

Your decision is mature and you'll make it..whether or not your parents come around remains to be seen..my ex is no longer in the church and his mom gives him grief constantly.

stormy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2011 12:24PM by stormy.

You have been given excellent advice and support and I can only concur with all the posters who have hithereto answered your post. Don't waste too much time fixing what is broken, if they are reasonable they will come to terms with it anyway, and if they aren't then that's their loss.

And I recommend greyforts advice, I did the same, if my parents tried to manipulate me or hurt me I hung up the phone or walked away. After a while they started treating me with respect. Don't take crap just because they are your parents or because you feel sorry for them. One of the best things with leaving mormonism is that we no longer have to tolerate bullshit, we no longer need to endure people stepping all over our boundaries. (both literally and metaphorically).

I have a thought about your father aswell. Maybe he simply doesn't want to hurt you as he knows he would do if he spoke to you. He might be restraining himself from saying things he will regret by not saying anything at all. It's a possibility. I don't know your father but if he's anything like mine I'd give him a few days to cool down. These things take time.

faboo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> My parents are resolute in their decision to cut
> off financial support. What's worse is that my
> father refuses to even acknowledge me. I called on
> Mother's Day, and my dad just said nothing and
> walked off when my mom offered him the phone. She
> started crying and said she had to go.
>
Emotional withdrawl is a classic tool of abusers. It could be that he's just grieving. But he could be trying to send a message. You probably have a sense of which it is, based on past behaviors. Perhaps his behavior is sending a strong message your mother's way, as well. That his love is conditional. Do you think he told her she had to get off the phone?

> I've pretty much made up my mind to go back home
> and start living life on my own terms. The problem
> is my parents are obviously taking it very hard.
> My mom has been talking about how her only purpose
> in life is to make sure we all get to the CK
> together, and how she'll do anything necessary to
> push for that.
>
I hope you aren't going to live with THEM.

It's not your fault your mother built all her hopes and dreams on a fantasy of having perfect children who would conform to her faulty beliefs.

How can she be responsible for your salvation? She CAN'T make you believe OR attend. According to Mormon beliefs, even JESUS can't force that on you. Where there is no POWER, can be no responsibility. Period. I think I've used that line before with my parents.

Which brings up another point. Why are the faithful Mormons effectively punished by losing their loved ones who leave the church in the eternities when THEY did what they believed to be right? That's not justice.

Do imperfections, or having a different set of beliefs REALLY make someone unworthy of LOVE in the afterlife?

> I realize I won't be able to count on them for
> help in transitioning into my adult life because
> of this, but at the same I really ache to hear her
> say stuff like that. Doesn't she realize life is
> so much bigger than the confines of Mormon
> doctrine?
>
Guess not. In fact, maybe THEY haven't transitioned to adult life yet. And yes, when she says stuff like that, she's being hurtful.

> How have others here dealt with this kind of
> thing? I've been trying to give my mom lots of
> reassurance, telling her that I love her, that
> she's important to me, and that I'm grateful for
> everything she's done for me until now. She in
> turn tells me she loves me and that I'm a fine
> person, but that I'm basically messing up her
> purpose in life, and that she's heartbroken that I
> don't believe in the church anymore.
>
That's kind of you to reassure her, and I think it's the loving thing to do. But honestly, it sounds like YOU are carrying too much blame here. It's normal for parents to be disappointed when they think their kids are making a big mistake. But when there is a disagreement about a lifepath, they need to step back once the decision is made.

I think you can comfort, but shift the responsibility back to her for her own feelings. She should know that it's not right to have a lifelong plan for how adult children are going to believe and behave (beyond expecting children to grow up to be responsible and law-abiding citizens).

> That's not even touching on my dad. He hasn't
> uttered a word to me in days, and I suspect that
> won't change for awhile.
>
Silent treatment is NOT a healthy way to deal with disagreement. Don't grovel. Here are some suggestions for dealing with silent treatments:
behavior.http://lmerlobooth.typepad.com/straighttalk/2010/06/the-silent-treatment-how-to-respond-to-your-partner-when-they-refuse-to-speak.html

> How have others on this board dealt with similar
> issues? These are my parents, so I love them, and
> I'm genuinely sorry that they're hurting. At the
> same time, though, I know I can't compromise
> myself. It's just hard to know how to engage them
> and offer support for the pain they're going
> through.
>

Offer support for the pain THEY are going through? This sounds a bit like role reversal . . . you are trying to nurture your parents, meanwhile, they are are inflicting pain and hardship on YOU to get their way. They have cut your education short (mid-program, no less), your Dad is giving you the silent treatment, and yet somehow they have cast themselves as the victims.

Don't buy into that. Sure, they are upset. But they have been controlling, manipulative and abusive.

I think you need to set some boundaries with them. You have to right to be angry that they tried to CONTROL your religious practice, and then THREATENED to withdraw support and then cut your education short on such short notice. Then your father withdrew from the relationship by giving you the silent treatment. This behaviour is WRONG and ABUSIVE.

My recommendation is to get yourself far enough away from your parents that you can heal from their controlling and abusive ways. Read some books by Patricia Evans on abuse, so you can recognize more quickly when they are crossing boundaries or being abusive. Emotional manipulation or abuse hurts less when you can see it for what it is (what the tactic is). It loses some of its effectiveness when you can label it, and respond to it appropriately, and sometimes it's almost humorous.

I also think that although your mother is causing you pain, she might also be a victim of your father's ways.

The way they are behaving surely can't be just this instance. My guess is that there has been controlling crap like this going on your whole life.

Best of luck.

> Thanks.

No offense, but your parents need to grow the **** up. LOL. Substitute "God" for "Santa Claus" in your original post and you might break a smile. :)

...my mother even said, "well I guess I'll be going to the CK without you." I said, "that's a terrible thing to say mother...I'm a good person blah blah blah." Over time I've been able to have calm discussions with them, reason with them, and explain why I no longer believe. When I showed them actual qoutes and material directly from the mouths of their own prophets, it seemed to sink in a bit. Perhaps to the point that they weren't as over zealous and more understanding. Give it time. Cultish parents seem to go through a sort of bereavement process when a child leaves the church (i.e. stages of greif). They'll probably eventuate to an acceptance stage. They've been brainwashed and conditioned into reacting like this. It's all very strange to the outside observer.

I bet if you decided not to pursue having a relationship with THEM, they would come around to YOU. Most parents want to be a part of their children's lives. Right now, they see you working hard to have a relationship with them and they are using that to manipulate you. Try not talking to them for a while and I bet they will start calling you and reaching out to you. They will be scared of not having you in their lives and especially scared that you will one day get married and have children and they will not be a part of their grandchildren's lives. This isn't the case with all parents, but I think it is the case with most parents. Try taking the power away from them in this relationship. Good luck

about why you don't believe. Are they really entitled to know your personal reasons?

Why not wait for about six months to a year and see if they are "worthy" (don't you love that word!) to know your reasons? Ever think of that?

What would happen if you kept it private? Refuse to talk about it? Set some boundaries for what you will share and not share.

Some day you will marry and have kids, THEIR grandchildren. If they continue to treat you this way you will likely not be letting your children have access to them. They may not be thinking about this now but maybe you could remind them that this will happen.

Their flaws are deep and obvious. They are un-Christ like flaws and behaviour. I would point this out to them. They are playing tough with you, you need to play fair and tough with them. It is part of becoming an adult. You treat them like an adult and they treat you like one. In parent child relationships that means loving each other and respecting the decisions we each make. They are your decisions to make. Not theirs.

It sounds like they are broken hearted that their attempt at manipulating you with the threat of withdrawing financial support failed. Now they have no cards left to play. Truly a tragedy when you have no more aces up your sleeve. ;)

I have been there, believe me. I gave myself space for about a year and severely limited contact with my parents. Now, years later, I interact with them as an adult and they respect me as such, and my mother and I have been able to form a stronger relationship than we ever were before. It is a rude awakening for them to realize that they cannot manipulate or bully you into making decisions their way. They will hopefully get over it. But don't let the guilt drag you down. :)

You know you're an adult when you've handed your parents their first major disappointment with you. If it's not religion, then it's choice of school, residence, mate, or occupation. But the bottom line is, if they want to maintain any kind of relationship with you, *they'll get over it.*

You are not responsible for your mom's happiness. Period. If her model of what will make her happy in life is not working out for her, it's her job to modify it.

Reward your parents' positive behaviors toward you and walk away (literally) from negative behaviors. When they are loving and accepting, be likewise loving, chatty, newsy, and giving. When they are negative or critical, suddenly remember something else that you urgently need to do, and hang up the phone or otherwise be unavailable to them. It's perfectly okay to distance yourself from them for long periods of time (months) if that's what it takes. In this way you will gradually train them over time to treat you with respect.

Ask your mom if she is willing to read, or reread the entire New Testament. Ask her to point out to you where in the NT Jesus talked about the Celesial Kingdom (hint: nowhere!) Ask her why Jesus told the criminal dying next to him that they would soon walk together in Paradise if Jesus did not see Heaven as being an inclusive place. Mom can either be lonely all by herself in the CK, or she can choose to socialize in the afterlife with the rest of us, including her own child. Her choice.

My heart aches for people like Stormy, whose parents cut them out of their lives. From hearing your stories I'm beginning to better understand what the church can do to families.

I'll keep your suggestions in mind. I'll be living with my exmo brother, who lives about 20 minutes away from my parents. It's close enough to where we can get together every couple of weeks if I decide they're ready for that, and far enough away to where I can put some distance between us if that's what's necessary. I'm fortunate to have a sibling who knows where I'm coming from and can help me through all of these changes.

My dad sent me an e-mail the other day, unexpectedly. It was actually a lot more civil than I thought it'd be, so it really is possible he was just trying to cool himself down before saying anything. He says he doesn't want me to leave the church, but he wants to hear my reasons for getting out.

I've typed up a document already, but I'm taking my time with editing before I send it. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not obligated to explain it to them, so I don't feel rushed even though they want me to hurry with it.

Thanks for your input.

In light of how they've been manipulating you, I'd strongly suggest NOT giving them that letter explaining why you're leaving. Let them stew and wonder why. They're cutting you off and obliterating your course of study mid-stream.

It's none of their business.

right now. Just say you no longer believe and stand firm. Or tell them you fasted, prayed and studied and God told you it isn't true.

If you get sucked into discussions about issues, it will only lead to more emotional response on their part. This isn't the time to inflame them more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2011 10:43PM by Heresy.

My parents statements in regard to my leaving the church and what I SHOULD have said:

Mom: "I LOVE you!"
Me: "What does love have to do with Mormonism?"

Mom: "I KNOW god lives!!!"
Me: "What does god have to do with Mormonism? Or religion in general? Or me?"

Mom: "I want you to read this book." (It was some book about testimonies.)
Me: "Testimonies are a dime a dozen. EVERYONE has a testimony. What makes you think mormon testimonies are somehow more profound, more deep, more real than anyone else's testimony?"

Wow. All I can say is there's a big difference between pushing your parents away and rising above their negativity.

This can be a powerful experience for you in the latter, which is a skill you can use the rest of your life. On the other hand, you might not be ready for this lesson at your young age. Which is totally ok. Every lesson will come back around. That's the beauty of karma and life's basic fairness.

Fairness, you ask, life seems very unfair.

It is only fair in that the disappointments of life are spread around equally. It only seems that it isn't because some are better at hiding their sorrow, their disappointments, their failures.

You will always be glad you rose above this instead of pushing it away, if you can.

If you are interested in what that would look like in your situation, feel free to email me at my name at gmail.

Best, Faboo, you are a fabulous young woman of which any normal mother would be so proud.

Anagrammy

PS. I'm available as the exmo grandma you don't have



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2011 12:35AM by anagrammy.