To admin, this post is not intended at all to be political, but if you think it is, feel free to delete it.

This past year, and more so recently, I've felt a shift. It's like one chapter of history has closed and another has opened. History is all hard to judge without the beneficiary perspective of time, but all the same this is the conclusion I've reached:

The historical arc of post-WW2 in America has ended quite disappointingly, with baby boomers being the living incarnation. All the hope and optimism that science and technology could bring a brighter future lit up the 50's, and despite the turmoil of the hippie era, it seems their was genuine optimism about the American Dream until 2008. Baby boomers and those younger lost jobs, homes, lives.

I thought the ship would right itself. I guess I've been passively waiting the past eight years for things to turn around, believing real change was possible. Well, the eight years is up and not enough has improved since 2008, at least in my books.

I'm still struggling to find entry level positions despite having management experience and a Master's. Last week, I removed my MA from my resume as well as all experience above and beyond what's needed for a receptionist type position. That was really hard. But I need a job and I'm tired of being overqualified for the few jobs that are out there.

What went wrong? I know it's not one single thing, but I do see a parallel in the white, entitled attitude of the Church vs how that same attitude has come crashing down in reality.

I think some people are angry because so much has changed in fifty years. I think others are angry because not enough has. But where do we go from here? Either way the election goes, at least half the country will be pissed for four years.

I'm really discouraged. Sometimes I'm really scared. I graduated right after 2008 and have found steady employment to always be difficult. The future doesn't seem brighter, not for me, not for anyone.

Where did we go wrong?

I hear what your saying, I graduated in 2004 with a degree that was useless and then again in 2009 with a high stress occupation that I couldn't manage for the long run, so I bailed. This emphasis on everyone getting educated in the same fields, everyone trying to marry the same pretty blonde person, everyone trying to live in the same upper class neighborhood, everyone trying to live the same American dream, is what the problem is.

It's tough but people need to look for what they can do uniquely, where their special opportunities really are, what they can do for the marketplace. Most of the time that has nothing to do with credentials. But that is a fact the bretheren don't want to admit because they are mostly all credentialed in white collar bureaucracies (like BYU) and perhaps aren't aware of plumbers who become millionaires.

I think the dialog should be try to build a career from an entry minimum wage position rather than spend $1000'S on degrees, but that's just my perspective :)

Unemployment and despair is no accident. It's what the elite bankers who own and run the planet want to accomplish: Destroy the middle class in America and the American Dream along with it. They are doing a good job, but they will ultimately be thwarted by the bazillions of decent people whose core values are being systematically violated by the top 0.1% who own and control nearly everything.

If you have not watched the "Thrive" video, you should.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEV5AFFcZ-s

I just watched Foster Gamble speaking in 2013 on the link below a year after Thrive was released. If you watch what is happening all over the planet these days, it might give you some hope for the future.

Foster Gamble (of Proctor & Gamble ... one of the few rich people who actually care about humanity)
Breakthrough Energy Movement video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka6e6MC33Y8

Some of my notes from the video:
Context for Suppression
Quote from Chris Hedges @ 51:00

We now live in a nation where
- Doctors destroy health
- Lawyers destroy justice
- Universities destroy knowledge
- Governments destroy freedom
- The press destroys information
- Religion destroys morals
- and our banks destroy the economy
and I would add to that list that those who control our access to energy limit and conceal the true possibilities of accessing energy.

Foster's son, Trevor Gamble wrote a book:
"The Secrets to Non-Voilent Prosperity"

Philosopher: Stefen Molyneux brilliant Canadian philisopher
non initiation of force against anyone

I'm underemployed, but stay at a job I really want to leave because it has provided steady employment since I was graduated from college.

I know that's practically unheard of in this day and age. My position isn't one I planned on. It was one I "fell into" during another recession, late 1980's. And have just stayed on, weathering one recession after another.

But it isn't my "dream" job. I've been a licensed realtor, and have a law degree. I could do other things, and someday I might.

If I live long enough to start another career after I leave this one.

I don't know where you live or what your degree is in. But have you considered government positions? I've had two civil service jobs - one with the state and the other with the federal government since college. Both required a civil service exam. So you do well on the test, pass the oral interview, and then pass a security clearance (for the federal.) They are maybe the *only* stable jobs I know of in this economy.

That is how/why I've been at mine for as long as I have. You'll never get rich being a government servant. It was a steady ride though.

My children graduated from college during the same timeframe you did. Both are expatriates and living overseas. That's how the economy and the changing times have affected them, and many of their peers. We live in a globalized community, for better or worse. What opportunities there once were, have been exported to other countries. Today in America more service jobs abound. If I were starting over now I'd be looking at the service sector/information services.

The cause of this is not the Democrats or the Republicans. It's the drive by both parties to globalize everything on the planet. This is against the better interest of all of the more wealthy western societies. Your American salary is getting averaged with the salaries of billions of other people who make a small fraction of what Americans used to make.

If this thread is related to the church topics, here is the lesson. Don't listen to what the leadership says. Watch what they themselves do. Both parties are cults. And like the morg, they're going to keep doing it as long as they can get away with it.

azsteve Wrote:
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> The cause of this is not the Democrats or the
> Republicans. It's the drive by both parties to
> globalize everything on the planet. This is
> against the better interest of all of the more
> wealthy western societies. Your American salary is
> getting averaged with the salaries of billions of
> other people who make a small fraction of what
> Americans used to make.
>


I agree - it is what is happening in europe: poorer countries join the former trade club (which is now a political union) and they migrate to richer countries for a better standard of living which drives down the standards of living in the more afluent countries. People from outwith these countries sneak in any way they can and then make their way across europe to the wealthier western countries and cripple their resources for health and social benefit provision leading to cuts in resources due to greater numbers of 'customers' needing looked after by the state.

If you are merely a business employee rather than owner you may find your company making changes in job descriptions to allow them to 'let people go' on the grounds their job no longer exists, then they can hire someone cheaper to do a marginally different job. In the US 'naturalised' illegals (non-citizens) can take these positions without the employer providing insurance for them under 'obamacare'.

Conditions like these are great for larger and multi-national companies seeking to cut costs and are sold to the public as better for the consumer, but it puts them in direct competition with local artisans and small businesses who cannot compete except in customer service provision and after care, which the rich businessmen do not really care for - cheapest is best.

The american dream is just a dream that has been sold well, just like the dream of mormon heaven.

One might just be convinced that a grand conspiracy was being played out ;)

I came to the conclusion a number of years ago that we are a one party system now.... they are called either the:

Demopublicans

or the

Republicrats.....

Actually, if the parties were closer we would achieve more.

There is a lot of truth in this. Americans have had a prosperous run. Globalization is an equalizer. For many countries, the standard of living will rise. For us in the USA, I think it will probably go lower.

I now work for an international company not headquartered in the USA. It's 75% bureaucracy and 10% greed. I would have never imagined this 20 years ago.

I don't think the globalization is going to go away with technology what it is now.

All this has changed my thoughts about Capitalism which seems great until you get masses of people who will work for little. When I think about the increasing population, environment and massive waste (think islands of plastic crap) it makes me feel despair. This is the best course for humans? Communism, socialism, capitalism, dictators, global corporations...I don't think humans are capable of thinking beyond their own self interests.

I understand your feelings of despair.

Our economy has technically recovered from the Great Recession, but I agree that psychologically, there was never a full recovery.

As a public school teacher, I never experienced job loss during the recession, nor did I expect to. But my wages were largely stagnant from about 2004, and then through the recession. Meanwhile prices for goods and services were increasing. It was a long spell of negative growth for me and my colleagues.

Meanwhile, spurred on by Federal policies and the attitude of the business community, our evaluation process has gotten extremely punitive. They don't *want* us to get our modest raises. Last year my students had stunning academic growth in reading, and I still didn't get the highest score. This year under a harsher evaluation procedure, I have little hope of it.

This rather blew my notion, gained from the 1990s, that I would receive a modest but fair wage as a teacher. I no longer believe that to be true. At this point I am just enduring until I can draw my pension.

I feel sorry for young people. They are coming of age in a much harsher economic atmosphere than I ever did.

I agree with Amyjo. See if you can find a position with the government, preferably the Federal government. This may require a move. The Federal government can provide you with a stable job and opportunities for growth.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2016 09:21AM by summer.

Thanks for the advice and insight, all of you.

Unfortunately, the Federal government or any government job wouldn't be a good fit for me. My personality has too wide of a rebellious streak.

It's good to know it's not just me though. I've tried to make opportunities as I've seen them, but I just don't understand how/why the middle class is being squeezed out. I understand the effects of globalization on wages, etc, but how did we let this happen? Where did we start down this insidious path, or is this the only path that leads to eventual wage equilibrium? And if equilibrium is the goal why does the gap in wealth keep getting more pronounced?

I see this world as becoming a one world government, sans politics.

It's corporations are what fuels the economy and keeps the capitalists afloat.

It only benefits the capitalists and the elite though, not us on the receiving end.

If we had more power/acumen/possibilities we'd threaten the existing status quo.

Keeping us impoverished helps keep them in power longer. When most of us are just scraping by from paycheck to paycheck with a job, and those who aren't able to get by without a job it keeps us scrambling to survive instead of thriving and climbing our way to the top.

The trickle down economy only serves the masters. With the middle class disappearing, that leaves a working class and basically a peasant class society. Even with college degrees and education. It only adds to the poignancy of the masses. Because they know. We understand what's going on. It's the powerlessness that is maddening.

A police state is what follows to keep us in our place. The police shootings across this country are more than chance or random occurrences IMO. It feels like they've waged a war on Americans. If you look different, walk a different way, act with any air of defiance, your number could be up for something as seemingly innocent as a parking ticket.

Ohdeargoodness nli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the advice and insight, all of you.
>
> Unfortunately, the Federal government or any
> government job wouldn't be a good fit for me. My
> personality has too wide of a rebellious streak.
>

A rebellious streak, or a history of such, could be off-putting for potential employers.

Rebels make great activists. What are your passions, and have you thought of working that field? You may have to start as a receptionist, but at least you would have greater opportunity to advance by both your education and passion.

I have a rebellious streak myself.

It was having been a Mormon (true confessional that!) and then children, and then single parenthood that caused me to subordinate my rebelliousness enough to hold down a job "working for the man," ie, government.

It hasn't been easy, but it served me over the years, all things considered.

amyjo, My hope was that the OP might respond to the question. I'm sorry you misunderstood.

Since this is a public forum, the OP invited a discussion.

Maybe you missed that?

I added that for the OP feedback, not for yours.

You raised an issue, like others have.

It's a discussion for gosh sakes. The OP will take the points that helps from as many respond as chooses to.

She can still answer your question. Nobody's stopping her.

Sheesh. My point was re rebellious streak. For me, that is something I've dealt with in my career as well. And managed to make it work, despite working for the government.

There's many political activists in government service via the unions that represent them. Those are opportunities for those who wish to change the system from within.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2016 01:33PM by Amyjo.

I don't read like I have a rebellious streak, either on paper or in my personal appearance. I still dress conservatively and am polite.

However, I am a very passionate person. I don't like rules that aren't justified and don't make sense though.

I'm actually in the middle of starting a non-profit to raise awareness about childhood sexual abuse (this is mentioned in other threads) as I'm survivor of that.

On a personal level, I'll be ok. I'm just freaking out about the national and global implications for everyone, especially my gen.

Amyjo's comment about a one world government are very poignant in light of the most recent HRC leak.

Non-profit work sounds good. I have a family member that works for a non-profit arts group.

Ohdeargoodness nli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, the Federal government or any government job wouldn't be a good fit for me. My personality has too wide of a rebellious streak.

What sort of work do you see yourself doing?

Personally, I think it's a mistake to put all government jobs in a box. You might not care to work for the police, military, or intelligence agencies. But there are also jobs available with museums, arts agencies, and environmental agencies. I worked for a county parks department, and it was interesting work in a relaxed atmosphere.

I'm also a public school teacher; totally agree with your views. Same things happening in my neck of the woods.

Been teaching 20 years, but it is getting ridiculous. 15 more to retire; not gonna happen. I'm planning to do something different, don't care if it pays a lot less.

I believe the world economic situation is going to get a lot worse. When that happens, government jobs probably will be pretty safe.

"I believe the world economic situation is going to get a lot worse. When that happens, government jobs probably will be pretty safe."

<chuckle> At least, until the government has taken everyone's money via taxes, and there is no more money to pay the government workers.

Everyone is correct that our country is in cultural and economic decline. There is a greater distarity in income than ever before. This isn't just market forces at work. It is the vision of those who control the wealth of western nations that has had so much influence in shaping the current circumstances of our society and the world.

I have been following Foster Gamble and have watched his production "THRIVE" as well as many others who are saying the same things. Alex Jones documentary titled "ENDGAME" explains a lot. Understanding who is behind the change and what their vision of the future is is the first step in turning things around. I am tired of lying decietful leaders whether political or religious.

It's a unique setup, similar to a coop. They all share the cost of utilities, food, upkeep, etc. It works very well. There are policies in place that allow anyone to leave with the money they have accrued in a special account. This is in a very progressive town in Mass.

He doesn't see children in his future, one at the most.

My son also works from a home office.

That would be an ideal job IMO. Being able to have more control over what hours one works, and telecommuting versus driving to work.

More autonomy. It would require more self-discipline.

At my home when my children were growing up home was the place they could unwind, and get distracted, seek respite, or entertainment. Maybe that's why my children for as highly self-motivated as they are, haven't yet gone for working from home. I kind of wish they would, because I'd worry less. Although my daughter is unable to work at the moment due to some health concerns.

I'd love to be able to work from home if my job allowed me to. I'm so sick of the daily grind ie commuting back and forth. The traffic has just gotten worse. Parking is a bear. Our downtown garage is a terrorist soft spot, so is hard to enter and leave. Then the street just became two-way this past week, where for the past CENTURY it was one-way until seriously, yesterday after road construction finished with it.

I hate downtown traffic. If anything could make me want to retire early, it will be that. Working from home would be most welcome (if only!) :))

"It's a unique setup, similar to a co-op. They all share the cost of utilities, food, upkeep, etc. It works very well. There are policies in place that allow anyone to leave with the money they have accrued in a special account. This is in a very progressive town in Mass."

If those five people are good workers and have clean records, I'd be willing to bet that all of them could move to one of dozens of locales in the mid-south and get good-paying jobs which would allow them to afford their own residences, and get married and have families if they so desire.

If the definition of a "progressive town" is one that's so economically screwed-up that five people have to pool their money to share one residence, I think that I would look for a place to move to that isn't so "progressive." I'd start by researching areas that have lower taxes and cost of living and an assortment of jobs that pay enough money to live on.

Not everyone wants to get married and have a house with a white picket fence.

We are being systematically divided by the rich, powerful, and connected for the purpose of further enriching the rich, powerful, and connected. I don't know how old you are, I'm 35, but it's not going to be easy for us. I've tried to position myself to be mobile and ready to move if necessary. The world now demands that. We're not going to be able to work a blue collar job or even a white collar job in the same place for 40 years and retire with a pension, retirement, and social security (both my parents are examples of this, uneducated and low-skilled but will retire comfortably). My wife is a Doctor and I work on the top floor of a high rise building with Chief executives making $1 mil+/year all around me (I don't make near that much, I just happen to work on that floor) so I'm fortunate but while I was in college we lived in Section 8 housing and we struggled mightily when we first started out so I get it, I've eaten ramen noodles for all 3 meals many times before.

The mentality of the older white males I'm surrounded by is disgusting and it is clear to me how we got into this mess. The selfishness and disregard for other people among those with money and influence creates credit card bubbles, stock bubbles, housing bubbles, student loan bubbles, subprime car loan bubbles, etc. I don't have any hope that the baby boomer generation (generally speaking) will do anything to make anything better for us but I do look at young(er) minds like Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk and find hope in their approach to business and the future. I'll spare any further personal feelings on the baby boomer generation because they tend to disagree with any analysis of their imprint on the world. My advice is this: Keep working and stay mobile. Stay mobile in terms of your employment and location. Keep learning new skills and don't ever write off any job or opportunity because you don't think it's right for you. The more doors you keep open the more easily you'll be able to maneuver. Also, don't expect it to be easy. It's going to be really hard but you can't give up.

We were lucky. We got to eat TVP for every meal, along with our potatoes and tomatoes from the garden of someone who took pity on us.

And there were many boomers who were drafted and sent to Nam. Thousands of us never made it back alive.

I agree 100% with everything stated so far. The global economy is changing faster than most of us can keep up. I think there are viable long term solutions however. Self employment, freelancing, "sharing economy", frugality, networking, social capital, multiple streams of income, etc. These are the emerging economic reality. Technology is making these more viable over time.

The other side of this is supporting non-corporate businesses, freelancers and services, building a social network for mutual support and possibly trading/bartering. Sights like Ebay and Etsy offer ways to support individual business people, and generate your own income source as well. You can publish your book on Amazon, offer your services on sites like fiverr.com or elance, drive for Uber, etc. Check out sidehustlenation.com and find something that is a good fit for you.

I really appreciate your pointing out the "big white elephant in the middle of the room" that nobody wants to acknowledge or talk about....

We may have different viewpoints but ignoring it doesn't make it go away....

Thanks.

Yep...and one huge unintended consequence of all this is that the U.S. birth rate has reached a record low and everyone just thinks millennials are not interested in having children. Rather the real reason is likely that when society makes life hard for younger adults, whether intentional or unintentional, a natural consequence will be fewer children being born, just like during the Great Depression... Only today's problems include virtually non-existent, entry-level affordable housing, student loans, etc.

The Millenials today by and large are very high caliber, well educated, and as you say more likely to postpone marriage and starting families because it's just harder for them to trust there are going to be stability in jobs, or longterm growth, and Social Security down the road to look forward to.

These young adults have what I call a "super conscience." They're some of the country's best and brightest minds we've ever produced up to now. They give me hope for our country and the future. But they have enormous pressures and challenges facing them we or our parents didn't, in terms of housing and employment.

There is a saying in Mexico: "Cada quien habla de la feria segun le fue en ella." (Everyone describes his day at the fair according to what he experienced there.)

The English language equivalent is: "Blind men describe the elephant by the part of its body they are touching."

I have five children and their life courses are quite disparate, and each of them has a POV of the world that differs from mine because each of us has our hands on a different part of the elephant, to push that analogy.

There is no *Truth*, no 'One Way' the world should be. But that's all I think I know for sure, except that there are a lot of people out there who DO think there is a *Truth* and that they know it.

Having been bit by unemployment twice in the past 3 years, I can relate to this topic. Overall I have been blessed in the workplace with good jobs and good income for middle class. I graduated college with a business degree in 1997. I think i can say i followed an expected course of employment, in that each successive job got me better pay and benefits. Then in August 2014 i was laid off along with several coworkers. I bounced into another job quickly in the same industry, but for a significant drop in pay. That job sucked as the employer wouldnt let people do what they know, instead opting to micromanage people. I left that job after 4 months, because i hated the place.

I then experienced 6 months of unemployment and could not find a decent job with decent pay. Yes I was getting hit up from employers that just wanted a warm body and wanted to pay $15 per hour. I couldn't take the job offers, because they wouldn't even cover my monthly bills. I'll spare the rest of the story, but here is my simple minded observation of why we are struggling. There are many factors involved and here are a few that come to mind.

Technology is great, but in many ways it has streamlined production and many labor jobs are lost/eliminated.
A 4 year degree of today is really just like a high school diploma from 40 years ago. There are a lot of educated people out there who cannot find good jobs.
Overpopulation and/or simple economics of supply and demand. There are fewer available jobs today and with hundreds of applicants for each job opening, wages come down.
Also, think about employers, they know it is an employers' market as there is a high supply of available workers, so wages come down.
Globalization and outsourcing of jobs. Many good paying factory jobs have left the country to foreign shores and reduced costs. Good for the company, bad for american workers
Government meddling in markets and over regulation has been bad both for companies and employees.

I wish I had done a little more education when I was young, by getting a more specialized degree, instead of just a business degree.
OK, done rambling, you have to fight and fight to find a good job and still your best resource is networking through people you know, rather than sending resumes into the ether.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2016 09:06PM by alaskawild.

Can you imagine @ $15 hour not meeting expenses, and then consider many of the low paying jobs out there don't even come close to that?

College grads are working whatever they can @ wages starting $7.50 and up. Trying to make it on minimum wage is mind boggling. I don't know how anyone can afford to. Kids coming out of college with student loans and the other regular bills of running a home, how could they possibly be solvent even working 40 hr work week @ minimum wage?

College is supposed to prepare us for higher entry level jobs. That only works when there are jobs to go around.

It's not unusual to work 2-3 jobs to get by. I wasn't making minimum wage, and still worked 60 hours for 12 years back to back jobs to get my children through school. I did it because I was able bodied. At my age now I don't know I could do it again.

"Can you imagine @ $15 hour not meeting expenses, and then consider many of the low paying jobs out there don't even come close to that?"

There are plenty of areas in the US where people can get jobs paying $15 an hour and higher. If both husband and wife are working, they can get by okay in those areas. But they have to choose areas where those jobs are, and where the cost of living and taxes are low enough for them to afford it.

"College grads are working whatever they can @ wages starting $7.50 and up. Trying to make it on minimum wage is mind boggling. I don't know how anyone can afford to. Kids coming out of college with student loans and the other regular bills of running a home, how could they possibly be solvent even working 40 hr work week @ minimum wage?"

Minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage. It's only what it is: a MINIMUM. If people want to earn more than the minimum, they need to either develop their skills and talents to become worthy of a higher wage, or move somewhere that higher-paying wages are available.

I'm 61 years old, and I've worked for minimum wage for seven weeks of my life, when I was 18 and younger. All the other jobs I had, I was paid more than that because I was a better and harder worker than those who were making the minimum.

If young people don't want to have to pay off tens of thousands of dollars in student loans, they should consider going to technical or trade school instead, or just learn a trade on the job. I got into plumbing when I got home from my mission in 1976, and I learned the trade while working as an apprentice. We didn't have an apprentice school in my area, so I bought my own plumbing code book and taught myself. You have to work in the trade for four years before you can take the journeyman plumber's test. I took it and passed it on the first try, and I was made a foreman, running my first job, just a few months later.

I have a niece in Alabama who got an associates' degree as an X-ray tech, and as soon as she graduated, she got a job in a hospital making $17 an hour. My employee's 28-year-old daughter got her degree in education, and she's now teaching third grade and making close to $40k. People just need to get their educations in fields that pay decent salaries, or learn a skill or trade on the job. And of course, there are lots of jobs that will train their workers. One of my nephews works at the Hyundai factory in Montgomery, and he makes between $65-80k.

My day at the fair, or how I came to love my part of the elephant:

As a result of having been born a moral idiot, I wound up being on my own, work-wise...a total loner.

Genetics and a Frothing Exuberance allowed me to carve out a nice niche, a niche that cannot be outsourced!

That's right, I paint the house numbers on curbs!! Sure, laugh if you want, but someone has to do it! The individual numbers don't pay much, but as math correctly taught us, the numbers eventually start to add up! I am able to keep La Saucie in dripping in fake-furs! (It's the SoCal heat that causes the dripping...)

And being Spanish-speaking gives me such an advantage here in SoCal! I know the numbers in two languages! I'm Bi-nomial! I'm a theorem!

Sadly, we need something like the plague during the middle ages. With 7 billion people, life is cheap and people who work for a living aren't valued. The American dream went from work hard and get rich to being born rich.

Don't forget rapping your way to riches, or putting out a sex tape!

And look at the great livings athletes make!

Brains? Why bother?

stop buying cheap crap and support your local buisness - drop out the rat race, go self sufficient if you can. It is a false dream to wish for an expensive mortgage, car(s) finance, fancy holidays to boast to colleagues about, expensive fashions that get discarded after minimal wear, etc, etc. We in the west have become a disposable society. Our values have become muddled, imo.

Job = just over broke

why be a slave to a job you hate and a mortgage in an area you hate ? I know, some of us have no other options but to get the bills paid but far too many people are content to be employees forever because they bought into a false dream of wanting something better but only gained contemporary conformity; keeping abreast of fashion. We should teach our kids to want something different. A lot of kids go to university for degrees that are worthless in the workplace. Proving your ability to study for 3 or 4 years does not have the same impact now as it did two generations ago and is the debt really worth it? Once the degree is gotten and the jobs with perks assured people become consumers. Consumers are never content - there is always something else to consume, to desire, to want.

I have no answers, just a desire to only want what I need and teach my kids the difference between want and need, independence and conformity. Mormons want the church to be true, but they certainly do not need it to be so to be happy in their lives. In fact, they would be a lot happier without it. There are a lot of things in modern contemporary society that we could do well without.

I don't want any of those things. I wish I didn't need a car. I won't own a home, because I don't need that much space (condo yes, though). I'm not trying to impress anyone.

I'm all for sustainability. My ancestors came from a tiny island just north of Ireland. My husband and I are moving back there as quickly as possible, but we have aging family in the states to care for.

On this island, you can fish, dig for mussels, harvest winkles, raise sheep for wool and meat, raise a garden in a greenhouse as well as cut peat to burn. That's what I want. Life will go on there long after the lights go out elsewhere. I just wonder what other people can do, especially as self-sufficiency isn't feasible in metropolitan areas that lack arable land and, in some cases, even sustainable supplies of water.

sorry to burst your bubble, but the european parliament recently legislated that peat can no longer be dug up - it ruins the local habitat. Never mind that it is a centuries old tradition that actually better maintains an environment that leaving it completely wild.

I'm pretty sure you need licensing now for fishing for mussels too but I could be wrong. If the sheep are rare breeds you do not have to register them with the wool marketing board who keep track of livestock - that is if your island is in the north, if it is part of the south or the republic of ireland then I'm not sure their arrangements for growing mutton and wool.

Too much legislation these days and not enough people willing to get their hands dirty for a decent way of life. We all (seem to) want a high paying cushy number when we certainly do not need the time away doing our job - away from the people and things we love most.

I hope you find your way to your island and live there very comfortably.

I have an MPH and worked in the nonprofit sector of global surgery for years. Almost 18 months ago I left a bloated salary and great benefits behind in search of something better. Leaving the fear and suffocation of heavy administrative maneuvering has led me to more joy than I ever thought possible. My paycheck is only a fraction of what it used to be, but I love where my life is.

I believe you may find the same.

One of my children did what you did. Left a high paying job to do something at a fraction of the salary was making before, to do what brought more fulfillment.

What started out as a dream job turned to disillusionment living the dream.

With really high paying jobs comes high expectations and stress that goes with them.

Then I'm not so sure learning a difficult foreign language and immersing oneself in another culture is exactly easy. But whoever said life isn't an adventure doesn't know what they're missing.

I'm a baby boomer. I have six months until I am able to retire with full SS benefits. Will I? Nope. I will keep working because nothing went as it should have or how we were told it would go. I am tired. I am broke. Broke financially and psychologically. I will work until I am forced to retire because I am not as agile, not as flexible and not as willing to work for peanuts as I was years ago.

As a child of the space age, everything and anything was possible. There was nowhere to go but up. We were told this from the time we started kindergarten. Wonder Bread built strong bodies 12 ways. As long as we did what we were told, everything would be bigger, better and more wondrous than yesterday. We saw so many things get better and better. TV went from grainy black and white to living color, we kept getting more channels and then 'pay tv' showed up. Disney was touting a 'great big, beautiful tomorrow' at Disneyland. Disneyland itself was near perfect in our young eyes. We had no reason to mistrust anyone. The system was created for our benefit and protection. What could go wrong?

November 22, 1963. That's what.

The world stopped.

Nothing was the same. Everyone tried to keep up the optimism and maintain the upward trajectory of life. It didn't work.

Us boomers graduated. We were told to get a college education and then go to work in big companies and work hard and eventually your company would give you a gold watch and you would retire to live out your days enjoying the rewards of being a loyal company man in retirement. Civil service work was low paying and beneath the dignity of a college grad. We were promised 'golden years' and we bought the propaganda, hook, line and sinker. No worries, we'd have retirement benefits, pensions and Social Security to take care of us. We were lied to. Looking back, we were completely sold a pack of lies.

Nothing turned out the way we were told. Corporations learned that paying out retirement benefits was expensive. They worked out ways to lay off or terminate employees before they became eligible. Mergers, buyouts, bankruptcies and other corporate shenanigans that benefited the executives and wiped out middle management basically destroyed the dreams and aspirations of the baby boomer generation. We had to move to keep jobs, we had to start over again, time after time. No 30 year mortgage burning parties for us. Buy a house, sell a house, refi, refi again. Equity building went bust.

I personally was a victim of corporate maneuvers three separate times. First, in the space and missile business-bankruptcy/shut down, then in the computer mainframe building industry, merger-they had to thin middle management ranks, then in the manufacturing of plastic cups-move to opposite coast or be laid off, and finally, I had to take what I could get to keep food on the table. I ended up in construction...building homes. This was so far from what I expected to do with my life. the wages were lousy, the hours were lousy, the work was back-breaking. After 28 years in construction, with precious few vacations and very little time dedicated to the family. I have very little put away, no pension, a much smaller amount of equity in my home (thanks 2008) and will be forced - not willingly - but forced to continue working in an industry that is brutally cutthroat and merciless. Builders paid a wage-period. No union bennies, no pension, no medical plan, no pension plan. None of the stuff that we were told to expect as we embarked on our careers. You can be laid off at the drop of a hat. Recessions cause severe reactions in construction and are a constant threat.

Yes, I went to college, yes, I got a degree, yes, I went into the corporate world, just as my elders advised and followed their counsel. It got me bupkis. They grew up in a vastly different world and were woefully ignorant of what was going to happen in the arc of the baby boomer's earning phase of life. No long term commitments, no loyalty, no gold watch.

Us boomers are equally ill prepared to advise our progeny. We have no idea what is coming next. Driverless cars, plans to colonize Mars, all were fodder for sci-fi and fantasy writers, yet here it is-almost a reality. Who would of thought? How do you prepare for the changes in the world that are happening at a faster and faster pace?

From my rocking chair on the porch, I see the momentum building furiously fast and I am hard pressed to keep up. I cannot begin to advise my children on even the simplest thing such as buy vs rent. New car/no car. Career insight? Forget it.

The world keeps moving, I just hope that the up and coming generations are able to figure out some way to survive and thrive. Us boomers, we weren't prepared and it shows. It's embarrassing and we have done precious little to contribute to a secure future for our kids, and we are woefully unprepared for retirement and are going to live our most difficult days as retirees, trying to eke out an existence with what little we managed to put away and everything being priced out of our range of affordability.

It sucks.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2016 12:49AM by csuprovograd.

"... I just hope that the up and coming generations are able to figure out some way to survive and thrive..."

Your use of the word "thrive" triggered this response to you.

I stayed up until 5am this morning re-watching Foster Gamble's "Thrive" movie. If you have not watched it, it is a "must see".

Everything in the movie is fact checked and will open your eyes about how and why your life has literally been intentionally sabotaged without your knowledge or consent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEV5AFFcZ-s

This amazingly thoughtful movie is not all gloom and doom at all. On the contrary, Foster Gamble (a Proctor & Gamble heir with a conscience) empowers all of humanity with a positive action plan to recover our planet from those who took it over long ago.

After you watch "Thrive", you will want to watch Foster's update presentation a year after the movie release in 2012.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka6e6MC33Y8

The grassroots initiatives to take our planet back are impressive indeed.

Caveat that there are a slew of Thrive movie debunker websites and blogs out there. The mainstream media needs to discredit this world domination expose' movie as CNJ conspiracy nut job work.

The world is waking up and discovering what the top 0.01% who hold and control most of the wealth on the planet have done to (and want to do with) the rest of us "useless eaters".

Prepare to have your cog dis severely tested, unless you have been waking up already. However bad you think it could possibly be, the reality is far worse than you might imagine. But the final message is a powerful message of Hope.

Hope you will watch these videos. If you watched Thrive long ago, I suggest you watch again. I am glad I did.

PS - If you are uninformed on what's been happening, check out these monolith guidestone tablets on public display in Georgia, USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

beyondashadow-
When you first posted upthread about Foster Gamble, I did not take the time to watch the video that you linked.

After your second recommendation, I took the time and watched the video.

As much as I would be inclined to write it all off as 'fringe thinking' by deluded people, I cannot shake the thought that the basic premise is completely plausible.

All my life, (aided by having suspicion of what we are told wasn't always to be trusted by my personal conviction that I knew without doubt that I held a complete and incontrovertible belief that the mormon church and all it represents is false) I have felt that something wasn't right in the world. Not just mormonism, but life in the world as we knew/know it is somehow false.

This feeling of living in a world shaped and manipulated by others for their benefit has been a nagging and disconcerting feeling since, well, for me, when Kennedy was assassinated. That was my trigger to cause me to suspect that the world wasn't what we were led to believe.

Gamble's presentation brings all of the things that I wondered about as I read and learned about things. I have always leaned toward alternate sources of information and without totally accepting everything at face value that was presented in those sources, it allowed me to see more than one explanation for most everything.

I felt alone in my alternate views. I have always hesitated to share my thoughts because whenever I would barely stray from the normal train of thought or explanation for things that happen in the world, I would be be dismissed as a 'nut'.

I find this to be another moment in my life where once again I feel like i'm not alone. Previously, I felt completely alone in disbelieving in mormonism, This is deja vu all over again. Once again, I am NOT alone in this world and NOT the only one that feels like I've been manipulated for my entire life...



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2016 01:38PM by csuprovograd.

csuprovograd,

Thank you for watching "Thrive" the movie.

I feel heartened that the usual cog dis - informed by mainstream media "programming" - did not block your view of the shocking reality of what's happening on our Pale Blue Dot.

You made a great point that the Mormon Deception is but a microcosm of the larger nightmare that engulfs the entire planet.

The hope and expectation for successful resolution of our collective disaster lies in simple numbers. There are only a handful of "them" and literally billions of "us". When enough of "us" wake up and see what "they" have done, it will be over.

For those of you who have not yet watched "Thrive", what are you waiting for?

If now NOW, then when? If not YOU, then who?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEV5AFFcZ-s

I'm a fan of Richard Condon. Many of his novels have continuing characters who are involved in 'ruling the world' and he writes as if it is a factual representation. He has the Mafia, police departments and all levels of government involved in this conspiracy. While he may not have all the details correct, there is likely a lot of truth to his vision.

But there will always be this problem: "Arriba los de abajo!"

The people who are at the bottom, us..., what happens when the revolution we foment puts us at the top? Are we going to be different? Or are we going to have privileges that we 'deserve'?

I am a Boomer and well off but worked to do that and had great opportunities.

I am just amazed of the 'awareness' presented above --- I just never realized so many people are finally catching on to what has been going on for a long time ----- baby steps before but still steps forward by the elite.

Obviously, more is going on now and it is coming at everyone faster but I perceive so many are still too busy to 'see what is going on'.

Thank you for your above comments.

You mentioned "history:" Anyone who thinks a president (ANY president) can single-handedly change much of anything hasn't been paying attention to history. Or the constitution.

I'm always amused, for example, when people tell me they're voting for a certain person for president because they're anti-abortion, and so is the candidate. When I point out that presidents don't have the authority to reverse Roe v. Wade, or outlaw abortion, they get angry at me and insist the president CAN do those things. Which is false, of course.

Nothing "went wrong." We're in a time of rapid change. We no longer have a priviledged status of being ahead of the rest of the world in technology, not having to rebuild ourselves after a horrible war, and having more than enough natural resources to drive our own economy like we did after WWII. We "soared" past most of the world then for those reasons, not just because we were so "great." Much of the rest of the world caught up. They have the same technology as us. They aren't having to spend their money rebuilding their bombed-out cities any more. They're getting more educated, but many still have a lower standard of living, so labor is cheaper than it is here. And through so much "de-regulation," we removed the safeguards to prevent illicit and 'unfair' accumulation of wealth, and we removed the graduated tax structure that gave incentive to the wealthy to invest in jobs and businesses that produce viable goods, and instead put in place a tax system that encourages greed and hoarding of wealth by individuals.

That's my take. Until we have tax and business law systems in place that reward job-creation and investment in US production, as well as ways to make things less expensively, we'll continue to lose manufacturing jobs to other countries that do them cheaper (but ironically, they'll run into our same problem in 20-50 years). We should also focus on products and services we CAN do better than others, by investing in those and promoting them. And like it or not, jobs that were good paychecks and secure careers 20-30 years ago are likely gone and will never be back. The world is changing, as it always has, and us insisting that we "go back" to a model that might have worked 20-30 years ago but won't work now is ridiculous.

BTW, I don't buy the whole "conspiracy among the elite" stuff. Wealthy banks and individuals are getting wealthier at the expense of the middle and lower classes because our tax code and laws encourage them to. They're greedy beneficiaries, who certainly encouraged passage of laws they liked, but they don't "control" things in some vast conspiracy. And we the people have the power to change that -- by electing representatives who will change laws to make things more equitable.

since you mention 'the war', here's a tidbit for you:

UK government recently (few years ago) completed payments on interest from loans provided by US government during the FIRST world war, the 1914-18 conflict. We are still paying off loans from the second conflict. I would imagine a lot of other nations have recently completed payments on their loans from the same time. America supplied arms to both sides before entering the conflict, on both occasions.

The US economy has taken a small hit as a result of these 100 year old loans maturing and will take another when the other war loans are cleared as, I believe, they were over a much shorter term.

Just in case anyone is interested.

I knew nothing of these war loans and if they'd been mentioned to me, I would have assumed the USA had forgiven them. That the USA loaned to both sides in WW1 ought not to be a surprise...

By 'taking a hit', do you mean that now the USA has to do without those loan repayments as income?

The next thought that arises is that those loans were made with 'gold standard' dollars, when gold was $35/ounce? If so, the countries got off way cheap, and it's what the USA is hoping for with China; an inflation so severe that $21 trillion in 10 years is worth $210,000. Wouldn't that be amusing?

"BTW, I don't buy the whole 'conspiracy among the elite' stuff."

ifi, it doesn't matter a hoot if you "buy" it or not.

Keep on watching your TV and slurping up that Network News. It's clearly working as intended on your personal psyche.

beyondashadow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ifi, it doesn't matter a hoot if you "buy" it or
> not.

You're right; it also doesn't matter a hoot if you "buy" it or not. How about that ;)

> Keep on watching your TV and slurping up that
> Network News. It's clearly working as intended on
> your personal psyche.

Hardly ever watch any of them, except for the weather and traffic. Oops, so much for your assumptions, huh? Hint: people who don't agree with you aren't by default brainwashed or uninformed. They may, in fact, have much more reliable and factual sources than you do. Something to consider.

You're absolutely correct, ifi. What I think or believe does not matter a hoot either!

Care to offer a glimpse into the "more reliable and factual sources" that indicate to you that the planet and its governments are not generally owned and/or controlled by privately held central banks and the elites who own all of these banks?

If I misunderstood what you intended by "conspiracy among the elite" I would appreciate some clarification.

Thanks.

PS - My apologies for accusing you of watching TV. That was an insult, and uncalled for. It was in response to your statement that sounded similar to what someone who gets most of their world view from mainstream TV would/could probably assert. That is why I am asking you for more info on your sources.

beyondashadow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Care to offer a glimpse into the "more reliable
> and factual sources" that indicate to you that the
> planet and its governments are not generally owned
> and/or controlled by privately held central banks
> and the elites who own all of these banks?

Thousands of sources. None of which show any evidence whatsoever of any kind of "conspiracy" among government banks and/or "elites" to own or run the planet.

Care to offer reliable sources that show your assertions ARE correct? See, the assertion (though often made) isn't true by default unless I (or anyone else) can prove it false; there's no reason to accept it as "true" until and if verifiable evidence shows it to be true.

Factual, verifiable data, reporting, and historical sources show that central banks have indeed on occasion acted on behalf of special interests -- and they usually get caught when they do, causing major scandals. What those sources actually show is great competition between nations and central banks, very little cooperation, a great deal of confusion, and no sign of any kind of grand, conspiratorial plan to control anything. If they do have a such a plan, they suck horribly at implementing it, 'cause they've never managed to pull off even a tiny bit of it.

The 'elites,' evidence clearly shows, are almost entirely out for themselves, and operate on personal greed -- even doing the stupidest things for personal short-term gains rather than cooperate with other 'elites' which would be better for them in the long-term.

So despite the claims of the banks and elites all conspiring together to run the planet, I've seen no verifiable evidence of any such thing, and the evidence available shows downright animosity between nations and their 'elites,' even when cooperating would benefit everybody. They're far too greedy to take a long-term, cooperative, conspiratorial view.

> If I misunderstood what you intended by
> "conspiracy among the elite" I would appreciate
> some clarification.

No, you didn't.

> PS - My apologies for accusing you of watching TV.
> That was an insult, and uncalled for. It was in
> response to your statement that sounded similar to
> what someone who gets most of their world view
> from mainstream TV would/could probably assert.
> That is why I am asking you for more info on your
> sources.

Ever considered that maybe, just maybe, "mainstream TV" isn't lying and trying to brainwash people? That they're largely, except for minor biases like Fox and MSNBC one way or another, just reporting facts? Might be worth considering :)

I'm certainly open to evidence of such a grand conspiracy if you have it. Keep in mind, I've checked numerous such claims, and found them to be far more imagination than fact, and to have no reliable basis behind them. But if you've got something new...?