I've been out for over a decade now and the more I'm away from Mormonism the more obvious to me that it is a cult. Not a crazy everybody must die or be voluntarily castrated but it is still a cult. Clearly, the more obvious cult behaviors existed in the early years of the church and have softened over time.

I do agree with the statement: religion = cult + time.


I can see the pressure on the church to give up the cult practices simply because they are dwindling in numbers. No one wants to give up power unless they are forced to. Perhaps new leadership will make it ok to question church history more or not shun family members who have left. How do you think the Mormons will transition from being a cult to a more mainstream religion? Second question: if the Mormon church stopped being a cult would you ever attend services?

Ceasing to exist.

After looking at some of the responses it seems that you have a point. I'm not sure Mormonism could exist without having Temples and Joseph Smith.

"Cease to exist"

What ificouldhietokolob said!

By definition, you can't redeem the unredeemable.

Yep, there's nothing they can do. They'd have to give up everything...their scripture, restoration claims, priesthood, temples, prophets, etc... As long as they claim to be the "one true and living church on the face of the earth, led by living prophets", they will be a cult, fanatic members will shun those that leave, members will avoid the truth or twist their minds in knots trying to deal with the truth, etc... Dump the "culty" parts, and TSCC no longer exists.

I agree. The cult part is the essence of ldsdom. Without that, it has no "specialness."

Worthiness interviews and the temple recommend make it a cult, especially the requirement to hand over 10 percent of your money to the church. Get rid of the temple recommend and it becomes just another church with strange, but not onerous, sacraments.

I agree with the above, especially the idea that anyone could be "God's authority" above one's own conscience is particularly cultish. The pressure to be always obedient to a dogmatic institution above having the pure love of Christ is unlike most mainstream protestant religions. And the vilification of apostates (even using a word like apostasy to make disbelief appear evil) is abhorrent and obviously cultish. Demanding that anyone submit their own judgement to someone else is despicable and obviously cultish. The very core of Mormonism is cult but the above are the things that brought me to my senses when I finally opened my eyes.

The 2 things that MOST make a group a cult are: Controlling of Information, and All-Encompassing teachings.

So, for momo to no longer be a cult it needs to do 2 things:

1. Full transparancy on the church history and a request to all members to go read as much non-mormon and anti-mormon literature as they can. After doing so, they can all make a fully informed decision if they want to join. If somebody wants to join on their own free will and informed decision, fine, that's up to them, and its no longer cult-like.

Along with this, you must be an ADULT to make the decision.

Any classes for children and youth need to be VERY limited to basic concepts of "be nice to your neighbor, and don't hurt yourself or others", and NOTHING along the lines of sin, hell, repentance, guilt, shame, evil... you know, all the stuff used to scare little children into compliance. No more brainwashing children!

2. Drop all the extra dogma and teachings about afterlife, word of wisdom, pre-existence, and on and on. All that stuff that tries to explain EVERYTHING around you, and tries to control your ENTIRE LIFE. No more telling women what their role is. No more distinction between women and men or between straight and non-straight. Just keep it to the real simple basic gospel.

Along those lines, they'd need to denounce all the previous books, teachings, and other droning-ons by church leaders as simply speculation, fallacy, fairy tales, and no longer believed by the church or in any way considered doctorine.

Stay out of my bedroom, my wallet, my body, and my life.

So, um, yeah, by completely not becoming itself anymore it would no longer be a cult.

I wonder if they will try some of your ideas. Not that they would ever listen to us but perhaps by being more transparent they could have more appeal. Although that said, it would be so much easier to see it is a cult after all.

I'm not sure how they could reconcile their history and previous teachings in order to mainstream more.

It could become a little more respectful if they stopped sucking innocent children into the cult before they were old enough to comprehend and independently research. However, the main strength of LDS, Inc. is enlisting the family to do the indoctrination from birth. Without child induction I think Mormonism would fail miserably.

"Stay out of my bedroom, my wallet, my body, and my life."

You forgot to add 'my closet and underwear drawer and my fridge.'

They would have to get rid of the temple altogether. Think about it. BIC children are groomed their whole childhood to aspire to go to the temple. They sing about it. They take visits to the beautifully alluring temple grounds. But you can't know what goes on inside! It's just too beautiful and sacred to even be discussed! Then bam! Bait and switch....creepy culty ceremonies with weird outfits and don't dare talk about it or else! The temple makes me sick! So glad I dodged that bullet.

The list of culty behavior goes on, but I think the temple is at the top of the list.

Ward boundaries would have to go. People would need the freedom to attend any congregation they want to.
They wouldn't take roll, or track who attends.
No pressure to go on a mission
Tithing would not be required for temple recommends, no tithingg settlement meetings
People would volunteer for callings instead of being assigned
Financial records would be public
More money would be kept by the local wards and stakes
Women would be able to have the "priesthood"

Even if they changed all of this and more I wouldn't go back because the Book of Mormon is not true, Joseph smith was not a prophet, the priesthood "power" is imiginary, God may or may not exist and if it does it doesn't care about man made churches.

Stop bishops and other leaders from asking sexual questions to minors without a parent present, and behind closed doors.

Mothers being allowed to hold their babies during a "blessing."

Full equality for women, with the "priesthood"

No longer forcing people to attend their "assigned" ward, the freedom to chose where and at what time to attend church. To me, the weirdest thing is that some Mormons are forbidden to attend their nearest chapel because they're not in the wards that actually use it.

No pressure to get married ASAP after a mission, and no pressure to start having babies before one's college education is finished.

During conferences at all levels, finances are disclosed so members see where their tithing goes. Also, tithing optional, no extortion in the form of tithing settlements.

The only way is to disband.

I tend to agree with ificouldhietokolob, which would, by default, cover all the other posters'comments :)

I was glib in my first post, but sincere.

"Cultism" is part and parcel of mormonism. From hero-worship of Smith, Young, and others to the BoM stories saying it's OK to kill somebody if god says so to the entire contents of the D&C to every single mormon rule, doctrine, and practice...

You can't ditch a few of the most "culty" aspects and get out of the big category. It's all got to go.

Hie, you summed it up perfectly!

My personal view is that it's not really useful to refer to Mormonism as "the cult" or some other term that is only used in a derogatory, insulting manner.
Technically, churches are all a kind of "cult" as is many other groups.
It really is about religious freedom and what we want to believe in is our right. It's useful to respect that right and leave people to their beliefs and spirituality as there are no rules on what you can and cannot believe.
Mormonism is only one of a couple thousand religions which happens to branch off of Christianity with the claim of a need for a savior.

Pick a religion, or none, or change your mind as often as you want. You are free to do that.

I find it pointless to try to denigrate people because someone does not accept their beliefs. That separates us. We want to draw people to us, not send them away. Just my little ole opinion!

I checked out the website. To me, mormonism gets a 10 out of 10 in terms of being a cult.

That site does offer ideas of what it would take for the Church to not be a cult like: Transparency with the finances, the willingness to seek critical views, and the idea that people can not agree with the leadership and that is ok.

Thanks for posting!

I find those lists to be all about the religions the people do not like. You never see their religion, for instance in the list.
It's a silly ploy to try to get people to believe in a definition they just made up ! Not buying into any of it.

My pleasure, praydude!


SusieQ#1,

The author has a Jewish backgound, clearly listed. You might want to see the links below.

Other anti-cult and mental health sites, easily Googled, include the same abuses. The point is not to single out any particular religion as a cult. It is to direct those seeking help toward relief, in the descriptions and definitions they find, no matter what cult or religion has been abusive to them.

The focus of this board is recovery from Mormonism, and if Mormons find this site offensive, they are not yet "ready" for it. We are not here to shove it down their throats, nor, to protect their testimonies or definitions as they see fit.

They can read the "our little corner of cyberspace" stickie as easily as they can read this thread.



https://culteducation.com/cv.html

https://culteducation.com/culteducation.html

I am not impressed by those that want to make sure they sell a book based on their made-up definitions about other people's rights to their religious choices. I'll stick to the dictionary. :-)
As a convert,I'm well aware of how easily people are used as pawns of someone claiming some kind of authority. Old trick of the game!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2016 02:38PM by SusieQ#1.

For Mormonism to cease doing the things that make it a cult. It qualifies all too well, imo.

My first experience with this was in my early twenties, attending relief society where the lesson way back then was on Literature. I was attending university at the time, familiar with what was being discussed and seeing and hearing with my own eyes and ears the twists and turns that were occurring to make the lesson material fit in the narrow box of mormonism, as well as taking huge leaps to say we could this lesson and that lesson from the material. Really???

So, I raised my hand, offered an observation and asked a question that I thought was "ligit", and soon found out how taboo my actions were.

Yep, if TSCC wants not to be a cult, it needs to stop building a cult box around its members FROM BIRTH.

Stop playing pretend.

One aspect of cultism is the total reliance for direction on a specific, living individual who can overrule all other doctrine and reason.

The concept that the living prophet can countermand all previous prophets, teachings, and logic would be at my top of the core Mormon doctrines that would have to go.

Included in this would be ending the ownership by that individual of all church assets.

I will never attend their services as long as the Book of Mormon remains a scripture. If they renounce and discard it and get out of the real estate and agricultural business and become a true charitable organization, I might reconsider. But not if they still keep the Book of Abraham and the Doctrine and Covenants and Book of Moses.

The only solution is to fall back and nuke 'em from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.




... one of my favorites. :)

+1.0x10^9

You can't grow daffodils on a dung-heap!

I started another thread on cults before I saw this. I referenced this book and here's a summary in Wikipedia that certainly reminds one of the church. Though as others have said, there are certainly many forms of group-think we are fed from birth. Marriage, materialism, statism, etc, about which we are shamed should we dare to question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cults_in_Our_Midst

The RLDS has made great strides to distance itself from Mormonism so people will stop associating it with the cult of Mormonism. Around 2000, it went from RLDS to Community of Christ as one attempt to remove its name from sounding the same.

It also doesn't attempt to equate Joseph Smith with a prophet of God as much as it used to. Or the BoM as the word of God superceding the bible. Instead it draws what it calls inspiration from the presidents of the CoC church from Joseph Smith's posterity on down to modern times. And the texts he wrote as "inspired" texts but not replacement or superior to the other scripture of the bible.

CoC allows women to be priesthood bearers, and pastors, and gays are equal to heterosexual. There is no racial bias present there that I observed. All are treated as equally as any other church I've been to that isn't considered to be a cult. With all its attempts at normalizing itself within its communities to appear as evangelical as the rest of Christian denominations, the COJCOLDS could take some brownie points from the CoC and do the same.

Will it ever happen? When hell freezes over. But one thing I've learned in my lifetime is to never say never. No one believed the Iron Curtain would fall until it did either. One can hope LDS is not only capable of reform, but will reform in order to save itself.

Mormonism exists only as a means to provide investment capital and a tax shelter for LD$, Inc. by fraudulently posing as a religion.

It has done so for almost two hundred years.

The laity have no control over church finances. Mormonism is not a franchise operation like the Catholic Church.

Where does the money go?

What's it used for?

How much are the Brethren actually paid?

Who controls the vast real estate holdings and corporate interests?

How much money is spent on political contributions and lobbying?

Cult Help And Information Centre -- Mormons -- Tithing By Coercion

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=580&Itemid=8



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2016 05:57AM by anybody.

The mormon church has done too much wrong in this world. I can't imagine how they could possibly redeem themselves without admitting to the terrible things they've done. After they purge themselves of the evil, there would be little or nothing left on which to go forward.

How do you tell millions of people that you've lied to them their whole lives and that you're sorry and won't do it again, and then have anything left to sell them? When they speak of Jesus, it just makes me angry because he is like their excuse for perpetrating the whole fraud to begin with. They throw in a little more Jesus any time they need a way to escape their lies and fraud, and to justify their ungodly social experiment / money machine.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2016 02:57PM by azsteve.

First, get rid of the hierarchy that is the "General Authorities", including the First Presidency on down.

Second, get rid of all their holy books, including the bible.

I'd say what third should be, but why bother? They'd just get hung up on the first two.

Get rid of the 3 hour block! Make attendance voluntary.

The best way for Mormons to stop being a cult is for somebody to pay the top guys a bunch of money to make it happen.

They'd do it. They'll do anything for money if you pay them enough. They're no fools.

Not sure how much it would take, or how many of the cult's leaders you'd have to buy off. To be on the safe side you'd wanna hit the top 15, plus the main guys behind the scene who run the committees. It's like the Vatican--the Pope gets all the publicity, but you've got cardinals and other bureaucrats working the levers in the background.

You'd want to bring hard assets to the table, too--anything too speculative would scare them off. Cash is always good. Suitcases full of the stuff.

Oh, and legal cover. Remove their exposure up front from any downstream litigation. It's like that old Warren Zevon song, "Lawyers, Guns and Money": "Send lawyers, guns, and money, and get me out of this" although at the moment you don't need the part about guns.

Time. Adaptation. Mainstreaming. History dismissal.

Or they could just fade out and be "that one frontier American religion of that time" which oddly took hold for a few hundred years. Some religions make it past the cult stage. Others don't.

They are trying. Like Zappa said, the difference between a cult and a religion is the amount of real estate they own. The LDS church probably has enough real estate to qualify as a bona fide religion to most people now.

Pesky critters, aren't they? Like lawn gophers. Shame didn't work. Nor guns, nor arsenic. You can't even smoke em out. I think nature is taking care of these varmints for us.

Its an oxymormon.

Mormonism can never NOT be a cult.

It is 100% dependent upon brainwashing children, with the threat and fear of severe consequences if they ever don't believe. Without the indoctrination of children, this church will colapse. Thus it is a cult, and can only survive as a cult.