Just a follow up to your last post directed at me. I have no illusions about the board nor its purpose and the diversity of opinions posted having been around a lot longer than the majority of posters. I think a thread posing a question to those with some kind of remaining faith after Mormonism would contain posts of a positive nature since that was presumably the hoped for intent. Your comments are noted but my observation remains the same since it is mine regardless of opposing views.

So basically you're saying MJ and others should employ a double-standard when it comes to other religions. It's ok to apply standards of evidence and logic to kolobianism, but we shouldn't dare be consistent and apply the same standards to other religions for risk of offending someone?

Also, your opinion that comments supporting x-ianity are "positive" and comments that don't support x-ianity are "negative" is baffling.

If your neighbors had a torture chamber in their basement and tortured their youngest child for something the oldest child had done, and you called the police to report it, would you expect the police to tell you to mind your own business and to stop being negative?

I think not...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2011 06:06PM by chulotc is snarky.

Actually, I'm not saying anything much other than expressing an obervation that despite protests to the contrary, the thread in question, a thread asking "believers" for a response, seemed to carry numerous posts that appeared to support the anti position. You can read whatever you want into what I posted, you can dissect it, analyse it, do whatever but it doesn't change what is a simple observation. If I have any point, that's it.

When I clicked on the thread, I was expecting to see lots of responses about what particular church people were attending now. There were a few of those, but it seemed that most posts were from the militantly non-religious. And the thing is, it's an interesting topic to some of us. For instance, I was amazed at the huge number of exmo Lutherans who lurk or post on the board.

There's nothing wrong with being an atheist, of course. I've sometimes enjoyed back-and-forth discussion with the atheists on the board.

It just didn't seem to be the topic of the thread. That's all. And it really killed the opportunity for people who would like to respond to the topic.

It's like when the atheists chased off "CuriousCatholic", who came here for information about how she could get her sister out of the Mormon cult. That really frustrated me.

If you want to debate, why Christianity at all, or why religion at all, then have at it. I just wish that you'd open up a new thread!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2011 06:49PM by summer.

I like your take on this summer. I don't mind back and forth between people on threads pertaining to such. But I was also interested in what other people had to say about their new beliefs. We all get that there's atheists here, but the question had nothing to do with you don't believe in. Who would want to respond to a thread that was clearly becoming "anti" to what the thread was asking about?

"Who would want to respond to a thread that was clearly becoming "anti" to what the thread was asking about?"

Who wouldn't? The drama on this board is fun as hell.

Oh no, I think someone doesn't like me. Perhaps this person can't stand to be challenged, or doesn't have the intellect to defend a position on a discussion board.

I'm super sad. Whatever will I do?

There was a bit of hijacking going on in that thread. All of us non-believers have different reasons for hijacking threads, and perhaps none of it is right.

For example, I won't stand by while someone claims that Christianity in general is somehow better than Mormonism.

However, MJ hit the nail on the head. There are a TON of pro-Christianity threads that never get hijacked and never get challenged. There is a lot of supportive stuff here too, and I'm pretty sure you glossed over them.

snb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a bit of hijacking going on in that thread.

A bit? I'm not going to go back and count, but it seemed like 2/3 of the thread was anti-Christian or anti-religion. That's quite a threadjack.

> For example, I won't stand by while someone claims that Christianity in general is somehow better than Mormonism.

I wouldn't expect you to, and that would make for an interesting exchange. But I don't remember that assertion being made on that particular thread.

> However, MJ hit the nail on the head. There are a TON of pro-Christianity threads that never get hijacked and never get challenged.

Hmm, I think the opposite. But feel free to point it out when that's the case.

"But I don't remember that assertion being made on that particular thread."

I wasn't asserting that it was a part of the thread. Notice how I didn't respond :)

It is my own personal issue...I should probably give it up.

"Hmm, I think the opposite. But feel free to point it out when that's the case."

You might be right, especially lately. There seems to be a lot of anti-religious vs Christian drama on the boards lately.

That would mean that someone posting a pro-Christian thread should expect opposing views. Challenging the views of Christians even in pro-Christian threads would thus not be considered hijacking by the standards of this site.

If you need a place where Christian views are not challenged, the Admins say they have suggestions for sites other than this.

We already GET your views (speaking of atheists in general, not you in particular.) At least the basics. Because on this board, those views are certainly out there.

As snb pointed out, if someone asserts that Christianity is a better choice than Mormonism, then I think it's perfectly appropriate for the atheists to chime in. On a thread where people who are Christian are sharing where they go to church, atheist views are not only off-topic, they're tiresome.

I'm asking that if you want people to consider your views, and to take them seriously, to just be choosier about when and how you share them. As it is, the atheists often just end up annoying people. If that's your object, (as opposed to persuading people to your point of view,) then you are succeeding.

I understand that the board is not Christian safe. But lately, it doesn't even seem Christian friendly. And I say this as someone who is a cultural Christian at best.

Sorry to beat away at a dead horse (and again, this is not directed at you personally,) but when we, as a board, scared off CuriousCatholic, I was *really* ticked off about that. And that's just one poster. I can tell you as a neverMo, that it takes a long, long time to really understand just how toxic Mormonism can be. It takes a lot longer than just one post. Did the atheists *really* think that they were going to turn her off of Catholocism with that one thread? Or would it be more to the point to get her going in the right direction, and help her to feel comfortable on the board so that she sticks around long enough to learn about the Mormon church and help her sister. If she (and the other newbies) stick around long enough, they'll see the atheist point of view. And maybe it will make a contribution to how she (they) see the world.

It seems lately that the atheists have had all the subtlety of Mormon missionaries. ("If we only harass the investigators long enough, they'll come to feel the spirt.") Can't you do better than that?

Again, while you are stating what YOU think, I am pointing out the stated intent of the board as stated by the admins and the owner.

You can think what you want, but when it comes to the intent and what is acceptable on this board, the owner's view trumps yours.

If you have a problem with the stated intent of this board, take it up with the owner, it is not my view and it is not in my power to change.

"Did the atheists *really* think that they were going to turn her off of Catholocism with that one thread?"

I'm not saying this specifically about atheists, but about internet message board culture in general. It seems that pretty much every single one of us have the tendency to think that we can change someone else's mind in this type of forum.

Personally, I think that rarely happens when we bash each other.

I have had my mind changed, several times, by people on this board. This is usually due to serious discussion that doesn't devolve into bashery. It is one thing to have a serious discussion, it is another thing to insult someone because they don't agree with you.

I'm not sure if you were trying to make a point about this specifically, but it is what I personally have observed.

The minds we change may not be that of the poster we are responding to, and may not even be a person that has posted here.

By no means am I saying we don't change people's minds. Like I said, I learn and evolve a lot by using this board.

Discussion = good and often interesting

Head bashing = ineffective and annoying

This is not a place where people of a certain faith should expect or hope for "posts of a positive nature". The admins and the owner explicitly state that people of that particular faith should NOT expect or hope for only "posts of a positive nature" but should expect their views to be challenged.

Regardless of your comments, the stated intent of this board remains the same, Christians should expect their views to be challenged, regardless of what they "hope" for or intend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2011 07:38PM by MJ.

It also doesn't mean you have to be on a mission to make such threads negative.

Are you some sort of mind reader?????

My intent is always to express MY view on the subject. my intent is NOT about making the thread a negative.

If you have a problem with me expressing my views about Christianity that is YOUR problem, not mine. The admins and the owner clearly state that I have every right to challenge the beliefs and claims stated by Christians. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the admins and the owner of the board, and good luck with that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2011 08:35PM by MJ.

Yeah yeah. I just notice a pattern.

I admit I have a pattern of challenging the beliefs of Christians, and I have EVERY RIGHT TO DO SO.

But you have NO BUSINESS stating what my INTENT is, PERIOD. You have no way of knowing what MY INTENT truly is.

Yeah yeah. I hear ya! I have no idea what your intent is. That is true!

Of course, Lost Mystic, no one is under any obligation to responde to commments, be they viewed as positive or negative. The board would certainly be dull if only one view was expressed even if some are intended for reaction.

I agree! I love different views. It's just more of the same in this case though. I can't even count how many times threads like "any exmos stay Christian?". Or "any of you become catholic?" that turn into "Catholics are child molesting homophobes".

If people want to continue to bring up Christianity as a positive belief system, those that believe that Christianity is not a positive belief system are free to state their views.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2011 08:50PM by MJ.

That is your choice...

Just saying that it would be a breath of fresh air if you gave an occasional thread like that a break.

It is your choice to read this board and what people say. Nobody is forcing you to be here. If you do not like what others have to say about your faith, that is your problem, we are free to state our criticism at least as often as those that want to state positive stuff about their religion.

Lol. Think I'll have a cigarette instead. Btw, I love it here. Post what you want of course. It just gets old on the threads we are referring to...I almost don't even need to see your responses! You do such an awesome job presenting your views that I can see your responses play out in my head before you even respond...hehe

But on other threads, your posts are refreshing and often surprising to me. You have a great brain. Very sharp.

But I do not go around saying people shouldn't post those views.

I can understand that. Do what you will...it was just a suggestion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2011 09:45PM by Lost Mystic.