I am NeverMo, who just divorced the TBM love of my life. Ok, it has been 6 months, but feels like eternity. I have never loved anyone like I love her.

Once we were married, she began to "get back" into the church, did her temple work, and started wearing garments. She pushed me initially, but once I strongly resisted and was able to know enough to form logical arguments, she stopped. I tried to bring up everything too her, starting gently with Church Publications. Eventually, I gave that up too. I started just praying that God would soften her heart. He didn't.

Then bring in the family with the unrelenting BS about the church. I have to say, it is scary how little most TBMs actually know.

There was a point where I actually considered just joining, but after talking to her, she told me I would have to say that I believed JS was prophet, and I actually laughed out loud...

I know I will never have the connection I had with her. If it weren't for her family, and the little LDS princess she had for a daughter (most stuck up Mormon I have ever seen), I would have put up with it. My step-son was one of the best kids I have ever seen, and actually asked pointed questions. I miss him too!!

It gets hard when you start to hate being around someone you love so much. Its too much heart pulling! I still dream about her, and wish I could tell her how much I still, and always will love her. I have been trying to accept the fact that it won't do any good. Her family has her convinced I am evil...maybe I am...I wanted her out of that oppressive mind F&*(k.

I am sitting here typing this, nearly in tears I miss her so much. Yes, I have tried to move on, and have met some great people. I guess once you find the one, you know. I know I will ever find anyone to replace her. I miss her everyday...I am just not willing to sell my soul for it.

6 months is not a long time when grieving the loss of someone you love and make no mistake, their is a component to divorce that is much like a death, but without the support or rituals to get on with one's life.

Give it time.

I'm sorry for your loss and for hers.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2016 01:32PM by wine country girl.

Thank you, I am trying. I am old enough (44) to know what I had with her.

I just can't let go of hoping for that miracle call from her, saying she actually understands what I was trying to tell her for all those years, even though I know that won't happen.

I voluntarily moved across the country just so I wouldn't accidentally run into her or her family...and that sucks too.

I think I am actually just dumb-founded that she wouldn't even listen to me. I just couldn't stand the thought of turning into her parents and hating her. I guess my thinking was to get out before I hated her. Maybe I should have gone with that instead...would have been much easier.

How did you 2 meet and get together? She was mormon before I take it. Was she married to a mormon previously?

If you don't mind sharing

Nonmo,
We met in a bar that she worked in. My brother had known her for a long time, and it was one of those movie moments. She was absolutely beautiful, thought I was handsome and funny and took off from there.
She grew up Mormon, but obviously wasn't practicing. She had been married once before to a nonmo when she was very young to escape her parents ( who by the way are the most horrible passive aggressive dicks I have ever had the displeasure to be around.

I remember when I was investigating, telling her that she wasn't going to like me being a Mormon husband. Everything she liked about me would have to die. She still didn't get it.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Remember its not just a religion, its a whole lifestyle. I'm sure the deeper she gets back into it, the more she will change into a person you don't really know anymore.

You don't know you'll never find someone else. Many on this board have. And some day you may even be able to be friends with her and/or her son. A lot can happen over the years. Best of luck to you.

Thank you. We actually still talk periodically, and I text her son regularly. ( I was the only Dad he ever knew). WE ended as good as could be expected, but I think that why I have having a hard time. Overtime I hear her voice, I nearly loose it.

anyway, one more day down...nearly

One of the most insidious things about the doctrine of the church is that this life doesn't matter. It's the next life that they seem to care most about. So if you've got a great husband, that's not good enough. Got great kids? Doesn't matter. Wonderful parents? Not if they're not LDS. They'll burn down the house, cut off their family and live a lie alone if that's what it takes to have a shot at the Celestial Kingdom which will make it all worth it. They actually feel a sense of goodness in their sacrifices. Too bad about the collateral damage.

This needs to be topped. That is Mormonism in a nutshell. Give up your very life (live miserably in the hopes of a blissful afterlife) for The Corporation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

If a corporation is a better thing to love then people, then the Mormons have really got something for you to live by in your life.

For many, myself included, it is cold lifeless organization filled with people who can be kind and even warm at times but for whom a business means more to them then a neighbor.

This is ironically not following the dictum of love thy neighbor but love thy nihilistic club in the off chance they are in charge of life after your life, the universe from a place near a fictional "Kolob", and everything else you can comprehend once you don't have a working brain to experience it and cease to exist.

Does anyone think it might be a good idea to write her and let her know? I don't think I could emotionally make it through a phone call.

I'm so sorry you're going through this heartbreak. It will change with time. Hang in there.

If I were you, I wouldn't reach out to her because it would open me up to fresh grief. But that's a decision you have to make.

Thank you for the response. I guess I figure the grief is already there. I am not some 20-something with no life experience. I knew what I was losing, and know what I lost. I guess was just thinking if a complete miracle happened, and she figured out she is being manipulated, that I would like her to know.

Does that make sense? Or just a bad idea.

You're not likely to change her mind, especially at this point. She's chosen the church. Her parents are supporting her. You left 6 months ago. You've moved across the country. Anything you say now, you've probably said a thousand times already. Why on earth would it change her mind now? That ship has sailed.

Sometimes you can love someone very much, but that person is not the right one for you. Please take heart that you will find your match one day. That person will be *more* compatible for you because she will not be carrying all of the TBM baggage.

I'm sorry that it didn't work with your TBM spouse. Unfortunately we have heard the same sad story many times over.

I am so sorry. I know just what it feels like to have lost the love of your life and to be certain that you'll never have that again. I am not going to give you some pithy bullshit about give it time and maybe you'll meet someone else. I know it hurts and those kinds of comments probably don't help much.

::hugs::

Thanks dogzilla. No it doesn't help, and its not always true. I have been around the block, it was my second marriage, and I have been in enough relationships to know what I had. It really wasn't until the last three years that i just couldn't stomach all the TBM stuff. Not from her, just everyone else. All the pity for not being TBM, talking down to, etc. Nothing like having someone else bless your wife because you don't have the Priesthood. (That was one of my favorites.) I don't think (even to this day) that she has any idea what all of that does to someone. She was never vindictive to me, ever. She just never was able to see the other side. I went to sacrement with her, even went to kids blessings as they moved up the ranks. AS a NeverMo, and one that was raised in an Evangelical church, that was super hard to take. Even sitting in sacrament when these doped up wives were saying what a shame it would be not to have the priesthood in your house...nothing, no reaction. I swear she wasn't even listening.

Anyway, I am completely off of religion. I have no use for made made bullshit. I won't deny God, I am too into the outdoors to deny his existence. Other than that, I'm not buying it.

It just really, really suck to see what that church (and others) have done to people. I will not take pity on the next poor Miss that happens upon my door. He, and all that follow, will bear my full testimony. I believe me, after losing a woman like her, its going to be some heat.

Dogzilla, I don't agree it's BS. Fact - it does and has happened for others. Some of us are comforted by this. Please don't hurt others by implying it's never gong to happen, people don't find others later in life. My mom is 70 and ready for a new relationship. Many older people are. I'm in my 40s like the OP. Do you think I will never be able to find love again? How depressing.

Edited to add poster referenced.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2016 10:24AM by KiNeverMo.

My former father in law married his true love last year. I believe he's in his 80's.

KiNeverMo,

I certainly think I will be able to find love again. Its more a matter to me of a connection with someone I never thought I would find, and then we met. It was that kind of connection where she could finish my sentence, and I her's. She was truly my best friend, but on a very different level.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that God or a relationship with Him is BS. My only point was that while Mormonism is certainly one of the great bad ones (like Scientology, or JW), there are many that are the same. I belonged to a "bible-based" non-denominational for a long time through our marriage. They basically told me that if I didn't divorce her, I would go to hell.

The problem is, all religions think they are right, and everyone else is wrong. I tend to think that God just wants to be respected, and worshiped. He gave me her love for a reason when I had no hope of ever finding it. I don't blame Him for taking it away. It was a man-made religion that did that through generations of manipulation.

I have my only relationship with Him, and that seems to be evolving daily. I figure people have a right to believe whatever they want, so long as it doesn't step on my beliefs...so again, there is the difficulty with it.

Sorry, Toddy, I was responding to dogzilla's post. I should have put her name on my reply, I know it's hard to match up the boxes. I would have quoted, but it's very time-consuming and apt to mess up on my device.

Thank you to Devoted Exmo.

KiNeverMo,

No, mu apologies. I re-read and see that you did. Must be lack of sleep / focus / not-enough-motorcycle-this-week...something.

That said, since I re-read that thread, I think some of the "give it time" stuff is pithy BS, and tend to agree with dogzilla to a point. Of course "time heals all wounds"...but not always. There are too many situational conditions, in my case, that time will not fix. I knew I would love her the first time we talked, and that never stopped. Not even when I told her we need a divorce. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. It was just clear that SHE would not be happy without a TBM husband. I know she will be a wreck, but nothing I can do about it. She is going to have to travel that road for herself.

I'm sorry for hurting you with my statement. I don't know about you, but I do think I will never find love again. I truly believe that. I just can't see how it could possibly happen. And it hurts like hell when people tell me to just not worry about it, that it will happen when I'm least expecting it. I haven't expected it for about two decades and it STILL hasn't snuck up on me.

The only people who say that to me are in committed relationships and have no idea how this feels.

dogzilla,

I am right there with you. I KNOW in my heart I won't. I am not saying I won't love, but it won't be the same way.

Of course every time I make a blanket statement like, "I will NEVER move to Florida!" Guess what. BTW, Florida sucks. It just looks nice on post cards.

Thank you, dogzilla, and I'm sorry for getting upset about it. I think what bothered me is that I felt for a long time I would never find anyone to compare to my first love, so when I married, I settled. I totally regret that, and feel I should have waited. I know I tend to love deeply, so I do believe there will be someone out there I can love in that way someday.

to tell her how much you love her, but I would leave it at that. Don't bring up all the issues.

The guy I never thought would come back did--27 years after I let him go because of the lds church. We've been back together almost 12 years.

Allow yourself to grieve your loss. It isn't easy losing someone you loved dearly.

I'm still getting over my last breakup, and it's been five years already! I loved him deeply - but things didn't work out. It hurt like holy hell at first. It does get better, but the grieving doesn't stop because you will it to.

You'll need to work through that and be very patient with yourself.

Do something nice for yourself every day. Whether it's to go see a movie, take a walk, talk to a long lost friend, make a day trip somewhere you love to go. Have your favorite meal, take up a new hobby, etc. Healing takes time.

Thanks Amyjo. I have been doing things for myself. I bought a motorcycle and sometimes ride around aimlessly for hours, started eating right again (cut out the funeral potatoes and rice krispie treats) and am actually feeling pretty healthy again.

I wish you all the best with your situation. I know it will get better but, I also know it will never go away. It is hard to lose your best friend. The only sanity I get is that I start to think about all the ways she wasn't. Gets me through the day.

Okay, I have the perfect movie for you: "This is Where I Leave You," starring Jane Fonda, Jason Bateman, and Tina Fey. It's a 2014 flick, but you'll totally fall in love with it and be glad you did. It will get your mind off your ex in a good way, as the whole movie revolves around dysfunctional relationships of a family sitting shiva for their father and husband (Fonda's.)

Enjoy! It will make a believer out of you of the power of movies to heal and uplift when you're going through a loss of your own.

Here's the trailer online, I just watched the movie on pay-per-view. It is worth the couple of bucks if you have it to spare. :)

https://youtu.be/UHCyILcpNY0

Amyjo, I have totally seen that movie and did love it. Well at the time it made me ask some questions, but thinking about it again, I will watch it in a new light.

I'm sorry you're in pain.

I read plenty of anger in there, too.

IMHO, if you let her know that you are yearning, there's the risk that she hopes you yearn enough to cave. I say this because you have described emotional abuse in her treatment of you. She is not deaf. She didn't defend you, because to her, the dopers were right; you are "less than." Think about that for a moment. Those women, part of a cult so painful that they use chemicals to numb themselves, were speaking "truth" in which your ex found no fault.

You say you know what you lost, but I don't think you've been away from the abuse long rnough to see it for what it was. If you don't recognize the abuse for what it was, manipulation at any cost to you, I humbly suggest some counseling.

Why didn't you have a motorcycle when you were with her; why did you feel it necessary to eat unhealthy food; why did she allow the snot-nose to be disrepectful to you?

Remember that the next missionary that happens upon your door could be treasured by a step dad, like you. The woman you lost will push him to go. Even if he doesn't want to. Your breaking free could be your greatest gift to your step-son, showing him that it can be done, and done well.

You must get my attitude by now. I think you are still deeply emotionally enmeshed in an abusive relationship, and could use a little professional help to see your way clear. No matter how beautiful (whatever made her beautiful to you) she may have been, I read some fairly ugly behavior toward you. It's unclear why you tolerated it for so long.

It also might do to do some thinking about how much your feelings for her are mingled with your feelings for your step son. He has lost the only father he ever knew, and that bond has little to do with genetics. I would leave that door wide open, because I doubt that he is "okay" with this. He has lost his only buffer between his emotionally manipulative mother and himself.

You matter; your feelings matter; your losses matter. Her (your) son's feelings and losses matter. You were probably the smot-nose's best hope for a healthy life. That she could let go someone who sacrificed so much to be with her, tells me more about her than you would want to read. All she thinks that matters is an old, dead, child rapist's cult.

Thank you so much for your response. It has really made me think about what I think I want to do. You are right, my stepson has a lot to do with my thinking right now. I have left the door wide open, and he is using it. It's a small step, but I don't want to lose him completely. She was manipulating me, and I understand why: I get the culture. She wasn't like that when we got married. She knows there is no path for me into TBM. It is too much of a departure for my logic... even with a ton of love. I will think on what you have said tonight, but I wanted to let you know how much I appreciated it.

It sucks but it seems evident that she was never really all that into (invested in) you. She liked you enough to marry you (She wanted a dad for her kids?) but didn't love you. You were just her next thing and you seemed like a good idea at the time.

Now the kids are older, she has decided she can do better than you. She probably will bounce in and out of other relationships too. Her problem isn't as much you as it is herself. As much as you love her, she is not, and never was, good for you.

It's great that you have and are able to maintain good relationships with her son, (kids). Ton's of kudos for that. I suspect she won't do as well as you do in that respect. Kid's see with more clarity than they are sometimes given credit for.

As you get on with your life, your ex may realize her mistake and want to take you back. If you want/need to experience more misery and pain, you can go back to her if you want. I hope you would have healed enough to not fall back into that trap. Life is too short to mess with the fickle minded, religious mime's.

I wouldn't expect (nor wait for) her to change who/what she is. Even if she said she has changed, I would not trust her. You can keep the fond memories of the good times but loving her enough to do a repeat sometime down the road would not be healthy for you nor her.

Toddy Boy-- What state do you live in? Utah? I am a NeverMo who was with a TBM for just a year. He had 5 grown kids and I miss a number of things. HOWEVER---I BET you will love again. Bigger. Better. Stronger. Freer. Ride that motorcycle. Write unsent letters, make playlists, but also begin to image a healthy forward. That is what I am doing. I had a coffee date and in just a few hours DELIGHTED in being on a date with someone who was on a date with me. Not me- the mistress -to the cult. I then went home and counted the hours in the last year I spend with my TBM---it was so few that I'm embarrassed. I am sorry you are sad. It hurts. PAINFUL. Best song lyrics come from this tho.......
Ride free........

Butterfly,
Thank you for the response. We lived in Boise area. After the divorce, I took a voluntary temp love to Florida (which I can't stand by the way). I just didn't think I could handle running into her or her family for awhile. I know I will he t through it, I have already met some amazing people, and I have a great support network here. It's just odd to me that even with the distance and people here that genuinely care about me, I can't stop thinking about her.

Sorry you are going through this... I am recently divorced and its hard no matter what... my ex wife was an emotional bully... Funny thing is we get along better now that we are divorced

The family being against you is hard. If you had moved to Florida with her before the divorced it might have worked out. I know the family probably had her fixed up with a nice widowed or divorced LDS catch

If you are still in FL I hope it grows on you... I know if you are from out west the Humidity is stifling... What part of FL

JVN87,

Thank you for the sentiments. I am quite sure her mom had her fixed up the day we separated. I truly hope she is happy, but I know her well, and I know she won't be.

I am in North Central Florida, near Gainesville. Its awful, and the ocean beaches are nice, but I can be there 24/7. Frankly I would rather vacation to them and be done with this hot weather. I miss the seasons.

I live between Jacksonville and Gainesville. It will be getting cool over the next couple months. There will be a handful of freezes even... really nice time of year.

I hope you got to check out some of the springs this summer

I live between there too. I live in Melrose and have an office in Keystone Heights!

Not far at all I live right off of Blanding Blvd( SR 21).

When I was a kid my moms aunt and uncle had a lake property on Lake Hutchinson right off of CR214

I wish Mormon Stories/John Dehlin could interview you and articulate some of the details of this phenomenon of alienation from non-believing, otherwise loved-ones.

I have seen instances and heard many anecdotes, even when I was still TBM myself, of people making the intentional "sacrifice" to end relationships with SO's, friends, and family who are a "bad influence".

As a Mormon you see it as protecting yourself. But, most of the time, the "bad influence" wasn't bad, but normal.
(and ironically, they tolerate abuse far past normal limits inside Mormonism).

IMO this is a core reason why the church really is a cult, when it causes normal healthy relationships to end ONLY because the non-believing partner is expressing non-belief.

This bullshit HAPPENS ALL THE TIME in Mormonism yet they deny "shunning". This...is...shunning..., TBM lurkers.

Amos90,
I would gladly be interviewed. I could go on and on about all the ways they shun. I tried to talk to my ex about it all the time, and she always down played it by saying, "I didn't hear it that way" or " I wasn't listening".

It is a cult for sure. When I was investigating, I asked the Bishop some really tough questions (I didn't understand how tough at the time), and he was flat nasty about it. When I brought up History of the Church (I think VOL 6, P.99-105) where is talks about Smiths incarceration, the drinking the night before his death, and him actually shooting three people, I wanted to know how JS could be compared to Jesus. I am sure you can all guess how that went.

Its a sad thing that we split. I think I was good for her. I love her truly, and I showed it all the time. She was and is at the top of my mind, all the time.

Once I met my boyfriend in my 20s, he is all I wanted. After my husband left me (he is gay), I told every one I'd never date again unless my boyfriend became available. He had been married a long time by then, 15 years or so. I didn't even look around. Nine years after my husband left, this guy got a divorce. I found out through his friend who I had kept in touch with. We all worked together. I had our old boss call him and his first statement was, "Tell cl2 to call me."

It was tough at first and there were times I about gave up. He was going through a divorce after 26 years, a divorce he didn't want. He lived a state away. I broke up with him a few times because it was so difficult. Many people told me there were other fish in the sea including my therapist. I told them they didn't get it. If it didn't work with this guy, I was done with relationships. I didn't want anyone else. I'd rather live out my life knowing that I had him for the short time I did as I'd tried the "substituting" someone for him.

It hasn't been easy, but we are still together after almost 12 years.

I hear you cl2. Everyone (mostly family and friends) keep telling me, its ok, you will get past it.

I don't want to . I don't want to replace her. I want to remember how great she was, not forget

I am sure I will meet someone else, and be happy, but it won't be, and I don't want it to be the same.

If you love someone, set them free. If they come back that means no one else loved them. Set them free again. ;>)

Odds are, down the road, your ex will want you back. Hope your present experience with her was enough to keep you from falling (again).

I am convert who who joined at age 17 and left at age 45. I am still married to my TBM husband. How I wish I'd left the church long before I married. My kids and I are out, but he's still in it and always will be.

I don't have much hope for our marriage. I ache for you because you still love your ex.

This cult separates those who love each other. I wish you the best, whatever outcome occurs.

Provo Girl,

I made a very conscious decision to leave the marriage before two things happened:

1. I went crazy or died
2. I ended up resenting her.

They were both very close to happening when I left.

I hope you have a positive outcome, whatever that means for you.

Todd (man, drop the "boy")...Todd, just a note to let you know I feel your pain. Seriously. I never went thru as much as you, just got dumped because I wasn't " spiritchul" enough..even after my mission.

For what it's worth, in my opinion, it's not her fault. It's part of the Mormon system. The young girls are taught to be bait to catch and keep breadwinners for the Cult. Even after they "fall away", the programming is there, working away, screwing up people's lives. I'm truly sorry for you, there's nothing more psychologically painful than love lost.

Lesson to be learned.....stay clear of Mormon women, they can't help themselves and they'll break your heart.

I know. I have never blamed her. I was involved in the system for long enough to know how it works. It's sick. Really sick. I stayed for so long thinking she was smarter and would be able to see that if I was just a good man, that would be enough...but it's not.

TB- I feel your pain. Been there. Married to my best friend. 61 now. Knew her since I was 9. The morons and self-righteous children murdered my wife and best friend. The way I've had the most success in getting over it is to stop thinking about the good things and focus, from afar, her treatment of me as she distanced herself and chose a cult over love. Her parents...try having her parents, siblings, children, bigshit and snake president whispering in her ear. You can't stand againt a tsunami.

It hurts. Get that. Look at the backside of the waterfall. If I was there I would hug you and let you vent for hours



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2016 05:47PM by incognitotoday.

Incognitotoday,
Thanks brother. ( I mean that in the most non-LDS way possible)

I could go for a good vent session.

Venting is encouraged here. If some colorful words are blocked, use special characters.

Your words posted here, are so important to me and many others. I cant imagine what youre going through. How long does the grieving go? So glad you shared your story.

I need to move on from issues in my life.

Its easy to say, and even more difficult to do.

Peace be with you!

Cantsay,

I think me grieving will be life long. You see, I don't want anyone else to replace her. Hopefully, I will be able to see her on the other side, and keep loving her. You see, I am one of those people that believe we will ALL be together in the same place. (Unless you have done something really really bad). I think she and I were meant to be together, and frankly so does she. If her parents didn't hold so much control, I think I could have saved her from the life they have chosen for her.

Obviously, you are a Christian?
If not, you are going to get loved here regardless.

Most everyone here cares about what you are going through.

I worry too much about crapola.

Hopefully we can get through it together!

Cantsay,

I am not big on labels anymore. I don't think one group is any better than another, especially where judgement comes in. I will not be a part of-isms, -ologies, or -ians of any kind.

That said, I have a very "shouty" relationship with Him right now, mostly over her. I question why he ignored me praying for so many years ( I still do several times a day). I know He has big shoulders and can tolerate my temporary disdain, but it still hurts like hell.

I like coolios!

I met a man when I was 20 who I dreamt about the night before. We were on our "third honeymoon" in my dream. He spoke to me in a distinct deep voice, was tall, blonde and handsome like Keith Carradine. I wondered all the next day why I would dream about someone I had never met who would speak to me in a distinct voice while we were waiting for our airplane to go on a honeymoon.

So when I saw him the next night announce the guest speaker for the Big Brothers and Sisters program I'd joined recently in exactly the same voice, same looks etc. as he appeared in my dream the night before, I was dumbfounded. I had dreams about him during the time we knew each other, that were prophetic after our first meeting. Including his dying several months before he did.

After he had died but before I knew he was gone I dreamt he and I were married in heaven. His spirit appeared to me during my first marriage, and I was given signs that he was on the other side watching over me then and for a few years afterwards. They stopped after a few years. The last dreams I had of him was he was giving me messages for me and my children, one of which was not to place faith in worldly things, because they will only disappoint.

The dream of the "third honeymoon" took me a long time to interpret because I was a devout LDS for that part of my life (he was a never Mo,) I finally figured out meant it was our third lifetime where we were brought together. But then life and circumstances drove us apart. I have full faith we will meet again in the eternities, because I have been given those signs and assurance.

If I had remained LDS I would have been able to be sealed by proxy to him for eternity. That was one reason I stayed longer than I might have otherwise because I believed that was God's will for me. Until I determined how false Mormonism is, and left.

So he and I knew each other in prior lifetimes. This lifetime God brought us together, but like two shooting stars our paths criss crossed instead of colliding. Is it God's will we met and are destined to be together? I believe it is.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2016 10:38PM by Amyjo.

Some say don't blame her, blame mormonism. But mormonism is made of people like her who refuse to question. I guess we could excuse all the Nazis for what they did because they were just following the system, right?

If she is simply incapable of freeing herself from the evil church (poor sweet innocent little angel), then how do you explain the thousands that did question and leave?

She can't claim complete ignorance - did you not raise questions in her mind?

The whole concept of love and marriage is a cult, just like mormonism. You are just as brainwashed as she is, and you refuse to let go, just like she clings to mormonism. You face reality when it comes to religion, but are still in denial with her. She is an abusive fraud, but you still fantasize about her. Yes, reality sucks, which is why so many are still in the church.

She never cared about you, but only the benefits you offered. She saw more benefits from church and family, so she prefers them to you. They offer security and status. Church also gives women monopoly control over men by limiting their sexuality. War on porn, etc.

I've seen many situations over the years of wives who despised their husbands, yet husband was clueless and had no idea. Including a brother of mine. Years ago his daughter stopped by on the way to the same college where her parents met (Ricks, now BYUI). She said her mom told her to not make the same mistake she did when marrying her dad. Wow! You see, my brother was starting to study for a degree when they married, but he had difficulty and dropped out, and they were poor for decades. Recently his business took off and they just got a big new house, and it seems her 'love' for him has somehow grown tremendously.

Anyway, alot of people think their partner actually loves them, but it is conditional. Probably wouldn't happen if they were ugly, or a janitor, or whatever. Or when you lose your job or quit the church, you find out reality, as I did when threatened with divorce.

The whole marriage thing is a lie and a scam. The vows make us feel like we are number one and love is unconditional, and then the fighting begins to get benefits for the least effort, and if unsatisfied, threaten with divorce or whatever.

Fortunately we have the internet so we can all avoid traps like marriage and church.

Free Man,
Ok, I take your point. I am not saying she has no fault, that is why it ultimately came to divorce in my situation. I couldn't divorce the church( not a member), so I made her choose and she did... I get it.

My point is ; where does the bulk of the burden lay? If someone is taught that the sky is in fact red for their whole life's, and their family has taught them that to say otherwise will mean eternal hell and damnation, should I blame her completely for it seeing it's blue?

Her sister committed suicide to get out of it, and my wife's first marriage wAs at 16 to get away from it. Her other sister married at 16 too and left home. My wife was youngest and was physically abused by her older sisters, and her father. Her mother , to this day, mentally abuses her.
So at what point is a person so conditioned to an environment that there is little hope of her escaping what has been a life time of real abuse? Not just some passive aggressive treatment, the Réal mind f$@@ing that comes with total submission to an idea.

I would contend that while I decided I couldn't live in it anymore and couldn't get her to see anything outside of it, why does that mean I can't love who I got to see under it all?

Why should I distrust who I know...good and bad? I agree that marriage is a nonsensical construct to keep the masses in line, and I get that I asked for a divorce, but why shouldn't I still love her deeply?

I don't believe marriage is a trap unless two people are unequally yoked. It works for many couples - and the ones who fail at it isn't because marriage itself is a wrong construct, it serves its purpose.

It's understandable why some people are soured on marriage, but don't blame it on the institution. Blame it on human error and bad judgment.

Marriage is a legally binding contract between two parties. It is conditional if one or both sides breaks the terms of the agreement. It should also be based on love, if that's possible. I don't believe marital happiness or love is unconditional, nor do I believe couples who go the distance believe that way either. It is love that's the glue that holds people together during the bad times and rough patches though. Without that, a marriage would only be a piece of paper.

My sister-in-law and brother went through some really hard times. If they didn't really love each other their marriage would not have survived the assaults and challenges they faced in their early years raising a family. Brother went back to school eventually. He did the whole BYU thing, a year at Ricks, then mission, then BYU Provo, next marriage, and dropped out of school when the children came because he had to earn a living.

The hardships they endured my sister-in-law said later there is no way they would've lasted were it not for their love for each other. The trust, respect, and commitment were byproducts of that love, but their love is and was the foundation for their marriage.

Not all couples fare so well. I don't consider them a role model for a family either. But I do admire their tenacity in making things work when all the odds were against them.

There are also many inter-faith couples who make it work. The problem I see with Mormonism is when one spouse isn't LDS, that will always be a cloud over the marriage unless the LDS spouse is able to see past the cult and the love binding them is stronger than the pull of the cult. The inter-faith couples who go the distance are able to be accepting of each other's beliefs without condemnation.

That's rough, Todd. Maybe you needed something from this relationship and you got what you needed. It was never going to last. There's a TV show they film a little north of you called The Walking Dead. That's a good description of Mormons. Mindless zombies going through the motions of life and waiting to die. They even have their own Zombie Jesus.

You seem to understand the church, but don't think you understand women. That's like dogs thinking they understand cats. How would you know? You're not a cat.

My philosophy is that love is never wasted. Deluded sure, but never wasted. Impermanence is your friend. Love will come again and you will be there.