... Or cutting loose of the family ties that bind a Mormon family.

You think you're over the whole cult thing, until you deal with TBM family that's still entrenched in the mind f*ck of Mormonism.

I've done pretty well moving beyond that. It's still hard when trying to have some sense of normalcy in family relations. It may be simply impossible to do.

Therefore I need to readjust my expectations of the nieces and nephews still in the cult who were raised by my brothers and their very insecure and selfish wives.

My children didn't grow up bonding with their cousins, before or after our leaving the cult. Whether I was active in the cult, or post-Mormonism didn't really alter the fact that my immediate TBM family suck big time who remain active in the church. My dad was the glue holding our family together, as an inactive Mormon up until he died. Since then our family has literally fallen apart at the seams.

It's truly sad for as large a family that I was born into on the Mormon side, that the inter-family relationships are so utterly messed up and incapable of being nurturing or loving.

I've had to disown a TBM brother because of his dishonesty and deception towards me and my children. He is a brother who has been a stake missionary in his stake, and is overly zealous as a Mormon priesthood holder, who thinks he's a god already, and is awaiting the Second Coming from his perch in Missouri (he even moved to be close to where Smith prophecied would be the "New Jerusalem.")

Both his wife and another brother's TBM wife are two of the most insecure women I've ever known. They isolated my brothers after they were married from our family without twitching an eyebrow. Then they did the same with their children ie, isolated them from my side of the family. My children barely knew their cousins as children, and still do.

My children were over achievers and very gifted academically. I've been fairly successful as a professional working woman who has been able to be self-sufficient and independent.

That just eats away at them to this day that I have been able to, and hold my head up high post-cult. Trying to maintain family ties has been anything but easy to do. And theirs is a religion that espouses "families are forever," while sticking it to their own.

We don't get to pick our families. Ain't that the truth!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2016 08:50PM by Amyjo.

Your situation sounds so much like mine. My brothers are a little bit better, but I understand. Mormon families suck.

Thanks. No matter the years and distance I've put between myself and Mormonism, the family that are trapped inside it remind me that I may never be really free from its clutches.

Including in death, down to the post-humous baptism that awaits me.

If there is a way to get an injunction against the cult to prohibit it from doing even that, I would feel victorious.

The cult is over reaching in life and in death.

I think you're taking it too seriously. You're in on the joke, they aren't. Of course they'll Dead dunk you. It's the only way to bring you back into the fold. They keep trying to save your soul now and pity your lost apostate status. You don't even have the benefit of a worthy priesthood holder in your life. Now really, isn't that a hoot?

They were lost to me when I was active TBM. We weren't really any closer then than we are now. My brother and his wife went to lengths to make sure their children didn't get to meet their cousins when I flew from New York City years ago to visit my parents and elderly grandmother, when he went to meet us at the airport.

He came in from Provo, and drove us from SLC to Ogden. His children were the same age as mine approximately. You'd think he could've added his children who are first cousins to mine. He told me he would before our arrival. He drove in in his large van with tons of room for his three bio children. I'm pretty sure he and his crazy wife decided against it at the last minute, and not because of any constraints besides her underlying insecurity of their kids bonding with my children. That's when I was active LDS. I was cheated out of a brother the day he married that woman.

They hardly practiced true religion then or now. Another brother and his bitch wife (truly!) tried to take my children away when they were newlyweds, because at first they thought they weren't going to have any of their own. When I went through my divorce with two little babies in tow, he and his wife did a character assassination of me where I worshiped to turn people against me. My own family came to my aid that time. My dad called a family meeting in SLC with him and my other brothers to tell him to back the hell off. An aunt and uncle (never Mo,) and my oldest brother from Provo were all prepared to go to court and testify for me on my behalf, that's how bad my baby brother wanted my children.

I've disowned that one. Not just for that but for other crap he's done since then to prove he hasn't changed a bit from then to now. He used to apologize and say he was sorry. Until he continued on with his behavior, which just made him a worse liar than he already was. He's been the stake missionary where he lives! I was his caretaker when we were children and our mom worked. That is how he repaid me after we grew up. His wife was in on it so she gets no pass either. They eventually had four of their own children. And he still tried to isolate my children from me after they were grown up. He hid my daughter at his home in the mid-west from me when she ran away from college 6 years ago. HID her. I had to put pressure on my other TBM brother for him to spill the beans because my mother's intuition KNEW that's where she'd run to. He contributed to her borderline personality disorder by aiding and abetting her getaway from having to deal with her life back at home after she became suspended from college for plagiarizing.

I'll never forgive him for coming between my daughter and me. Never. I'm not bitter, but I am angry. It's righteous indignation at his dishonesty and foul play over the years. Religion for him has been something for him to hide behind while he exercises his cloak and dagger. Their children have been more insulated than the other one's has. I grieve not only for my loss with family, but for my children who didn't get to bond with their uncles, aunts or cousins because of the cult factor.

My life has become almost totally Mormon-Free! Nearly everyone in my family that was LDS has died or left the church!
Some members are left in my husband's side but I have very little contact with them. Some LDS folks are on my Facebook that I see from time to time. Most are decent and not overly obnoxious about it. (I use the Hide function for posts that I want off my page!)

So sorry so many of you are having trouble with LDS family!
They seem to do best when they stick to their insulated little groups and don't venture out much. It's hard for many to accept that people can change their mind and still be valuable!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2016 11:06PM by SusieQ#1.

I wish could say the same for my family, SusieQ.

Out of my immediate siblings, two are TBM lifers as are their spouses.

Many of my cousins are still in the cult. Our parents, aunts & uncles have all passed on by now - which leaves the cousins and our kids, grandkids, etc.

Out of the TBM relatives there are a handful that I know of who have left and aren't bashful about it. The delicate line is balancing our freedom with those who stayed because it's like walking on eggshells not to offend them or be offended by the judgmentalism and shunning associated with Mormonism.

Most of the TBM relatives are respectful of the rest of our beliefs. There's always going to be the exception. When it's a wild card for a TBM brother or a sister-in-law who is designing by nature, it has caused unnecessary friction. Do I blame that on the cult per se?

To a large degree I do. They haven't changed over the course of time. If anything they've become more set in their ways, not less. Which translates to more dogmatic and controlling in their very rigid belief system.

Trying to interact with some relatives this past week has driven home how far apart we are in our perceptions. It's a vexation to my spirit only if I let it though. I need to remember that as part of my recovery.

Read your above post and replace "TBM" and mormon" with "Serial Killer". Makes it easier to leave. We all want/desire to have a loving family. But, when your family is fucked up, trying to associate in the manner that you'd like, is never possible. It's hard to cut ties, but sooner or later, you have to figure out that your crappy family will drag you down. Forever. It takes guts, heartache & resolve to stay the course, but you're better in the long run. Hang in there.

That seemed a bit harsh at first, but I get what you're saying.

One of my TBM nieces recently wrote her first young adult fiction about a psycho killer lol. Maybe it makes more sense now. She's been okay though her mom is one of the entitled Mormon princesses married to my bro, who has always been afraid of my side of the family.

So she raised her children to revere her dysfunctional family and to shun my brother's side. Why would I expect their children to be much better than their own parents? In some ways they are, though they shun by extension. The apples don't fall far from the tree.

My sister-in-law's sister abandoned her TBM husband and her own children when they were little, because she didn't want to be their mother. She's top dog in her book. Her dad left her mom for some bimbo from their ward, who called him over to fix things, including her sex life. There went her parents temple marriage. I get why she's so insecure around other women, including my brother's only sister. But damn, it cost me a brother and my parents their son.

When I hear her and my brother's children saying things like her parents were their favorite grandparents it makes me want to scream. She didn't let them near my parents. Her mom and stepdad lived with my bro and his wife until they died, both from cancer, in bro's house, with their apocalyptic mentality that the world was coming to an end in their lifetimes so they made a fortress for a home to keep out the government in the "last days." They had a mentality like some of the white militia people that live around where they did. So they're my nieces and nephew's favorite grandparents who grew up with them, while my parents were never made to feel important. They too were shunned by them because of a highly insecure sister-in-law who isolated my brother from the rest of our family and in extension their children.

That's how the cult worked to separate our family, from the inside out. It does a snow job on its own.

As a side note, most of my family and my extended family were not LDS but several were ministers for at least three generations. They also had riffs, some didn't talk to one another, some wrote terrible letters, a couple of siblings didn't speak to each other for decades, others spread rumors about others in the family, turned one against another one and on and on. It went for generations!
Families are a toss up no matter what religion they believe or don't believe. Add an exclusionary, inclusive religion and that's just one more thing to add to the mix!

One of my Jewish cousins-in-law sent me a copy of her German Jewish family tree. Initially she promised me the original but then had second thoughts, and decided to keep it in her family even though no one at that time had any interest in it. I sparked her interest (she's in her 80's now.)

Her late husband and his sister were Dutch Resistance fighters in Holland. Their father was a professor of journalism and mass media @ Univ of Amsterdam. Their family were good friends and neighbors of Otto Frank and family.

It was a thrill for me to make her acquaintance, she resides in Massachusetts. Her husband came to America after WWII via Somalia.

Lo and behold, when I finally received the copy of her family tree, it is identical to the one my mother made a print of for me in 1990, that I've preserved. Mom's original is in tatters at a TBM brother's house in the mid-West, the brother I had to disown because of his dishonesty and meddling with my children.

On the family tree I rec'd from Massachusetts identical to mine, are the names of the Amsterdam family with large neat X's crossing out names of a whole branch on the tree. You can read the names, but someone had delivered a blow to the family tree by crossing out names like you'd cross someone out of the Book of Life.

Have no idea what that was all about, but maybe perhaps it had something to do with the Holocaust, as those names were alive during the Holocaust. Those cousins lived to tell about it, but barely. They lived through hell on earth. Upwards of 80% of Amsterdam's Jews were slaughtered. The ones who made it had to outsmart the local police and gestapo to do so.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2016 06:50PM by Amyjo.

Are you sure you're related? Maybe you should have a talk with your mom.

My parents are both deceased.

Funny you ask though. When we were little people thought my mom's children were from different fathers because we didn't look anything alike. We each had different complexions and hair colors. Finally when my youngest bro was born he tied us in because he had the same complexion as the oldest bro did.

I used to daydream as a child that I was adopted, and my real father was Tony Curtis. :P

I knew I was a daddy's girl growing up. Whenever my parents argued, I was always "his" daughter, never my mother's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2016 07:28AM by Amyjo.

Thanks for this thread. It makes me feel better about what happened to me. My husband totally abandoned me and our children, disappearing, and escaping child support and alimony. I was supporting the family, so I guess it was lucky that he didn't ask me for alimony.

When my husband's parents found out he had abandoned us, his mother (the dominant parent) called me, and all she said was, "I hope you don't expect anything from us." For the sake of the children, I swallowed my pride and asked them to keep contact with their grandchildren, because they were having a hard time. The children were little kids and toddlers, and loved Grandma and Grandpa. They did receive Christmas cards with $10.00. No letters or phone calls, or visits, though they owned a condo 5 miles from us.

I had to cut off all contact with my older brother who beat and tortured me all my life. In adulthood, the bullying was mostly verbal, but threatening, still. I had to keep him away from my children.

My other brother was a high priest, and financial clerk, and he and my parents bragged about his honesty. I think my parents knew, deep down, that he was a crook, and they allowed me to have my own legal representation in regard to their Wills. His wife was a gold-digger, and jealous, and tried to spread lies about me and my children, to discredit us, so her children would get more favors from my parents--and it worked.

The independence we learned, gave us the freedom to leave that dysfunctional family, after my parents died. The Mormons that are left in the family are shunning us, and we're glad of it. Now, they can't steal from us and lie to us anymore.

It's hard to let go! In our case, we're letting go of a dream that belonged to an older generation of Mormons--the large families of 8 children, plus the extended families of aunts and uncles and cousins and grandparents and old-maid aunts, all living in the same neighborhood, and sharing the same cabins in the summers. Wealth was part of the dream. Temple marriages and no divorces. Women who didn't work outside the home. Men who became bishops, stake presidents, temple presidents, mission presidents, and general authorities.

We have a new dream. A divorced single mother CAN make it in the world. She CAN raise educated, successful, happy, honest, hard-working, loving children. We want to have fun, these days, and are less concerned with competing with social-climbers, and having to prove ourselves to people who's only authority is in the Mormon cult. One doesn't have to be born into wealth, but can be "self-made." Small families can be very loving and supportive of each other, helping put each other through college.

The old dream was one in which the good-old-boy Mormon geezers were top dog, and made all the rules, and took in all the money. Now, women are rising up, and so are children! My children had jobs as soon as they were old enough for a paper route, and they kept on working. Half of my Mormon cousins' kids, and my nieces and nephews turned out very badly, getting caught up in expensive drug habits, and a few committed suicide. My kids were the only ones not to go on missions. I was the only one who was divorced. We were separated by light-years from the Mormon mainstream. We had no choice but to let go and move on.

You've said so much here that resonates with me, I don't know where to begin.

Great insights! Your life story sounds similar to my own. We had to fight for our independence; it sure wasn't handed to us.

I have a dishonest brother who's been high ranking in church callings. In fact, each one of my bros was willing to lie and perjure themselves on my father's grave over some stupid life insurance policies. That really opened my eyes on their lack of honesty, when that transpired. I had to hire an attorney to protect my interests during that chapter of our lives.

My ex disappeared like yours did when my children were very young. In some ways he did us a huge favor, because he wasn't around to disappoint them more. It was a shock when one of my children developed his personality disorder, I'd believed it was caused by his upbringing and environment. I've come to learn it can also be hereditary.

As I get older my thoughts turn back to home and my extended family. Both my children live overseas, so I've tried to cultivate and foster a relationship with some of my extended family long distance. It's a reminder why we weren't close in the first place, and that is painful to acknowledge. So, like you, I'm coming to that place yet again where I need to let it go. It isn't fair to punish myself for something beyond my control.

I do lament not having a supportive loving family however.

>>It's hard to let go! In our case, we're letting go of a dream...

One of the concepts I learned as a studio art major was that we have *ideas* about how things look that actively interfere with our ability to effectively respond to the reality of what is in front of us. It is for this reason that many people are able to make a good copy of a picture *that is upside down.* You are simply responding to random lines and not to your internal conception about what things should look like.

As I grew older, I discovered the same things about people. We have ideas about what certain people are like, and this sometimes interferes with our ability to see them accurately. Same thing for roles -- husband, wife, mother, father, brother, sister. We have ideas for what these roles *should* mean to us, that don't always mesh with reality.

Over time, I think that people come to see the truth about others. Hence divorces and distancing when warranted.

We also have to fight ideas about what role church should play in one's life. The idea of a happy, mentally healthy, spiritually uplifting church community doesn't always mesh with the reality.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2016 08:11AM by summer.

Being raised in a Mormon household and community was clearly dysfunctional. We didn't know any better as children, because it was our frame of reference on which we judged the world.

Since everyone else was wrong, how could we possibly not be right?

It does a head number in other words. Separating from the cult wasn't easy. But staying would've only made the cognitive dissonance lifelong and more ingrained. Like how my two TBM brothers are to this day, and their spouses.

They're in utter denial over the CES letter and other factual information about the church history. They'll be mopologists until the day they die.

Not to make light of your situation with your family but in response to "Still Anon's post" above, in regards to replacing the words TBM with "serial killer", I found this.

Sorry, that didn't work. It say's "They say one member of every group has the potential of being a serial killer --- so I threw Dave of a cliff, just in case it was him. (photo of an apologetic Racoon)

A bit drastic maybe but you get the point



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2016 10:09AM by dejavue.

Ha! Awesome.

In laws were unhappy with me, a nevermo engaged to their RM TBM son and made little effort to hide it. They were so busy trying to prove their superiority as a people and as a family that they hardly noticed my shock at how little like a family they were.

Welcome to the family of ex-Mos, dear one.

We may have come on different boats, but we're all in the same ship now. ;)

Happy for you your DH didn't let tradition nor parental opinion sway his better judgment! Or he'd be missing his better half.

the past two years have been extremely difficult. My brother was killed, then my nephew accused my children of something and they told me by myself. Didn't talk to my children at all and me not to tell anyone. They told everyone. Of course they were exonerated, but no one will apologize to my family. It's supposed to just smooth over. My siblings didn't believe my children because we aren't Mormon, but they are. My brother was the bishop at the time so of course it couldn't be his perfect child lying to protect his ass because he got in trouble. Well my grandpa died a year later. His kids would hardly see him, neither would the other grandkids. I helped take care of him for the last 5 years of his life. The minute he dies, they circle like vultures and start taking his stuff the day we buried him. They took money from my grandmother in the 6 figures. My cousin said she should put my grandpa in a home because he knew she couldn't take care of him the right was. She had round the clock nursing care for him. He made my grandmother feel so upset that she put him in a home and he died two weeks later. Then that same cousin came to my grandmother and got the down payment on his house from her. I am sick of how these supposed Christian Mormons treat the people they love. To top it off, my grandpa was not Mormon like me. He was so happy when I left. He came to my wedding and was so happy he could be a part of it. My family didn't come to the reception and decided at midnight the night before to show up at the wedding. So in two weeks, my grandmother is paying for all those money suckers to come and get sealed to my grandpa after he dies because my mom and her siblings want to be sealed to them in the temple and I can't nor want to be there. It is the hugest slap in the face to my grandpa. He was so anti. How would they feel if I was another religion and decided to baptize and endow them after death into the seventh day Adventist or something. They would be furious. It makes me ill! My uncle and aunt who are on a senior mission are leaving so they can be here and than going back. My grandmother has shelled out so much money for their hotel reins, rental cars, and expense money that she is going to cask some of her stuff in. I am truly sick about it. My family is and always will be the black sheep and it makes the holidays suck! I really should be glad I don't have to be with them. Still hurts. My parents don't have a relationship with my kids unless they need help with something, but they have my brothers kids over every Sunday afternoon and multiple times in the week. And we all live next to each other. It's sad... Mormonism destroys families unless you are in the cult. Then it's all roses...I am blessed to have good kids, despite my mom's belief that they would grow up to be hoodlums. I really am blessed. Thanks for allowing me to pour my heart out. I'm having a hard day.

The other thing that made me ill was my mother who uses two canes and my father who has a bad knee got told by my bishop brother that he was inspired to tell them they needed to go on a mission right after my brother was killed, in the middle of their grief. They cannot physically or emotionally do that. It's because bishops were told to tell seniors to go on missions. My sister decided express herself on the day my brother was buried. What is wrong with these people!!

So sorry for all the trouble you're having.

Yeah, when my mother's dad died, she couldn't wait to have him post-humously baptized. He detested Mormons with a passion.

He didn't talk to my mom for 14 years after she joined the cult he was so mad at her for converting. He only started speaking to her again on his deathbed.

And she still had him dead dunked. The damn moron church I tell ya. The nerve to go against someone's will and wishes in life, because they can't give permission after they're (or we're) gone. That's a practice that needs to be stopped once and for all.

My parents were both inactive and had been for years when they passed on. They were more open minded to my leaving than some other families might've been. The family that's still living are practically like strangers to my children and me. That's just really sad that families are not together forever in this life, and that it was the Mormon church that continues to drive wedges between us. At times I wonder if some of the TBM types actually gloat over the families the cult divides?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2016 10:11PM by Amyjo.

Jigglypuff, we are here for you. I am not at all surprised by your story because I've read many similar accounts over the years. Mormonism didn't do your family any favors. I hope that you take satisfaction in having raised good kids who know how to do the right thing.

Thanks for your kind words. Most of us on this board are letting go of family, the religion... it's wonderful that we have this place to talk about things that we can all relate to.

You're right, Amyjo, we don't get to pick our families. I am sorry for all the pain that you(and others)have endured because of tscc. I am grateful that I wasn't born into a TBM family. I must have been 'less valiant' in the pre-existence, huh? Haha;) I'm thankful for that, to say the least.

I've read so many sad stories like yours and jigglypuff's, about this 'church' that proclaims their doctrine is so family oriented and that promotes that tired "families are forever" catchphrase, right down to the ubiquitous(in Utah) bumper stickers. It seems that they are so focused on their "forever families" in the CK that they have a wanton disregard and ignorance of the destruction and suffering they create in families in the present time. It is truly heartbreaking :(

Remember that you do have a loving, supportive family here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2016 11:11PM by cinda.

Thanks Cinda. We were all so valiant hehe. I figure us ex-Mormons were the more valiant ones because we were able to find our way out of the labyrinth of a cult!

It's so much better on the outside of a cult than on the inside any day. :)

I've more or less adopted a family in lieu of my nieces and nephews and their children. My adopted family is a mom and dad with three little children. The wife lost her mom to cancer when her mom was only 44 years old. She has felt lost without her mom. Since I'm not a grandmother yet and my own children are doing their own thing it's nice to feel like I'm wanted even if I'm a "foster" grandparent to some little ones. They are sweet as can be and aren't into shunning family.

My mom's parents were both orphans. They more or less adopted people while raising their children to be substitute aunts/uncles etc for their kids. Honestly, that may be why my mom was drawn to Mormonism, because of the emphasis on family. She herself wasn't capable of giving or receiving love. But it wasn't for want. She grew up in Utah raised as a Methodist by her mom who would've been raised Jewish were it not for her being orphaned. I think mom and her siblings were in the minority where she grew up surrounded by Mormons. That likely helped in her conversion after she became married to my dad.

She was the only one of her siblings to convert.

And everyone else. My heartfelt admiration for your survival amid chaos.

The TBM family is a whole nightmare all by itself. Even when I was still in and trying to keep gawd almighty happy, family was always there watching me and judging every move. They watch each other too and are a lot more harsh on family than total strangers. I'm so glad to be free of most of that.

Think of a pack of wolves. They all get along great unless one of them shows a weakness, then they pounce mercilessly and tear em to shreds. That's what a True Believing Mormon Family will do.