Perhaps too tired and cranky

Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: November 16, 2016 09:00PM

I just answered a few emails where I was threatened to be sued due to a post on this board. I just deleted the whole thread that was the cause of the threat.

I know some here take a cavalier approach to what they post without considering I am the one that must suffer the consequences of their actions. Fortunately our admins here protect the site and me with their diligence. It is still not without stress for me.

My mother has developed dementia and we just spent nearly 2 weeks helping her and arranging home health care. Today my wife and I took our daughter to the emergency room and worried about her. When I got home an hour ago from the hospital, I had 4 emails with threats to sue me.

Please be thoughtful and supportive of others. I do not need this additional stress in my life.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: November 16, 2016 09:07PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

I am so sorry that you are going through these kinds of really daunting experiences, Eric.

I feel for you far more than you probably know...

...and I am also sorry about the threats, too. :(

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: November 16, 2016 09:16PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

Eric K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please be thoughtful and supportive of others.

My favorite part of this site. It gives a reprieve for the downtrodden by Mormonism.

Sorry, helping others comes at such a personal cost. Mormonism is a tough thing to fight. I tried to explain to my coworker how my parents, my father's father Rulon Jeffs and Warren can cultivate respect and admiration while their lives are anything but reflections of these things.

You have gone after an organization priding itself in its helping people when it is really operating like a syndicate of human suppression leading so many to depression.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2016 09:17PM by Elder Berry.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 16, 2016 10:00PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

For future reference... As a homeowner, with a standard homeowners insurance policy, there is $300,000 in CPL coverage for you and your wife. I can't say that it would absolutely cover you for a claim made against you as the owner of this BB, but it probably. You should ask your insurance agent, or contact someone in Underwriting. It's a question I'd like answered now, not later. If they say you're not covered, finding a policy that would cover you would be easy...and cheap. And we'd pay it, amongst us.

The mods should also ask themselves this same question.

Having an insurance policy in place can't stop people from suing you, but you'll be defended and any damages awarded would be paid. If you got into the habit of losing such lawsuits, they'd drastically raise your rates, but that is not something I'd worry about.

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Posted by: noMoreHokeyPokey ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 04:26PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

Hey Eric,

Don't know if this is helpful, but a tidbit for me to give back. My first post - been reading for the better part of this year to help in my recovery (a necessary and emotionally painful journey).

While you cannot readily delete cache form search engines (web crawlers), you can request, for the future, search engines to not allow display of a of your site cached from the search engine (though the offended would like the search gone as well; which this does not affect). All reputable web crawlers respect the request to not allow the display of their cache of your site. To accomplish this just need a <META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOARCHIVE"> tag in the <HEAD> section of the page. (note: this only removed the "Cached" link for the page(s))

To remove cache from search engines, registration for each search site (google, yahoo, etc.) will be required (a pain, for sure). As a start see: https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/6332384?hl=en&ref_topic=1724262

Also see: http://www.google.com/webmasters/remove.html

As a side note, to see the cache on google, for instance, there are two general methods:

1. click the down arrow next to the webpage's url in google search:
e.g. http://icdn1.digitaltrends.com/image/search-cache-screen-625x625.png

2. enter “cache:www.exmormon.org” in the address bar (presuming google is set to be the default search engine).

As others have mentioned: thank you for the time keeping this site up and flourishing

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: November 16, 2016 10:01PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

How do I delete content in Google cache? They are suing me over that. I deleted the original thread.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 16, 2016 10:06PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

I don't know if this will help, but it's a start...

Open Chrome.

On your browser toolbar, tap More .

Tap History, and then tap Clear browsing data.

Under "Clear browsing data," select the checkboxes for Cookies and site data and Cached images and files.

Use the menu at the top to select the amount of data that you want to delete. ...

Tap Clear browsing data.

Clear cache and cookies - Accounts Help - Google Help

That looks too easy... Here's a more in depth explanation:

https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/6332384?hl=en

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: November 16, 2016 10:10PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

That is only for one's personal computer.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 16, 2016 11:03PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

The phrase, "They are suing me..." is very open ended. Has a lawsuit been filed? Or are they just threatening, with the carrot extended, "get rid of it all, and we're good..."?

If the lawsuit is filed, the plaintiff(s) will probably want more than just retraction.

When you refer to Google Cache, do you mean that it still shows up in a google search? Or are you referring to it being cached on an independent site?

As far as Google goes, this seems to cover it:

I control the web page
If the content is on a website that you control, or is managed by an account that you control (for example, in your Blogger page), or you are the verified site owner in Google Search Console, here is how to remove your content from Google Search results.

Temporarily hide information from Google Search by filing a URL removal request. This takes effect in about a day, but it is only temporary (after about 90 days it will reappear in search results). You must take the additional steps described next to remove it from Google Search results permanently. You must be a verified site owner of the page in Search Console to do this. We recommend removing the page from both search results and the cache in your request.
Permanently remove information from Google Search results. To permanently remove your page or file from Google Search:
Block access to it, as described in Get information off the web.
OR
Add a noindex tag or header to your page. Important: When using this method, be sure that your page is not blocked by a robots.txt file.
OR
Remove an image from search results using robots.txt to block either the image or the page that hosts it. Again, this is to remove only an image; not the entire page, from search results. If you use robots.txt it is possible for the page, but not the image, to appear in search results. To block the hosting page from search results, you must use one of the other two techniques mentioned previously.
[Optional] Remove or limit access to your information. See Get information off the web. If you don’t do this, users with a link can still access your content. This also prevents your information from appearing in a search engine that might not respect robots.txt or noindex, or from being linked to by a website.
If the information no longer exists (to remove cached results) file a URL removal request.

ETA: oops! forgot to put in the URL: https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/6332384?hl=en

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2016 11:31PM by elderolddog.

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Posted by: Sassafras ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 05:29AM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

I don't know the particulars, but this must be done with Google directly.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: November 16, 2016 10:22PM

You've earned the right to be tired and cranky.

I'm very sorry for this rough patch you're suffering. Do take care. I hope things will level out for you. My best good wishes are with you tonight.

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: November 16, 2016 11:09PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

I'm very sorry about the stress, Eric. You're more than generous giving us this forum. If possible, perhaps the admins can add a sticky with additional items that we should avoid. I know that politics, preaching, and attacking others are inappropriate and tacky.

I hope things are better for your daughter. A trip to the ER is very unsettling.

I was also saddened to read about your Mother's dementia. It's very difficult to watch a loved one go through this type of disease. My own Mom would go in and out of reality until the end. My heartfelt thoughts are with you and your family.

This forum has helped me stay sane given the environment of family and work. My very best to you, and thanks again for setting up RfM those many years ago! The Boner.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: November 16, 2016 11:33PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

You have been so generous over all these years Eric in helping

us out of the mormon Church. We would completely understand

if you wanted to walk off in the sunset and retire.

WE all appreciate the work that you and Susan have done over

the years... but maybe its time to go.

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Posted by: Aquarius123 ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 02:39AM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

I'm so sorry you're going through this, Erik. And many thanks for the way you have always helped us out. Do what you have to do for you now. ((())))

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Posted by: Topper ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 04:38AM

top (n/t)

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 05:08AM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

I've really appreciated all the good you do with this site, Eric.

It sounds like 4 e-mails in a row was what someone wanted was for you to remove the offending thread which you did.

An attorney wouldn't resort to an e-mail, but a legal letter advising you of the offending party's intent if indeed there were any merit to their claim.

You took the action they really wanted which was to remove whatever it was that caused the offended party anxiety.

As for removing it from Google cache, I imagine it will disappear since the title no longer exists for this site. Might it appear somewhere else? Only if it was posted elsewhere. But that wouldn't be your concern since you did all you could to restore 'peace' to RfM.

In Shalom,
Amyjo

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Posted by: fluhist ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 05:19AM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

SO sorry to hear of all the trouble you are suffering mate.

Take care, and I hope things improve!

My thanks for all you do for us!

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 05:21AM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

Eric, I'm sorry that you are dealing with so many difficulties. Hopefully we can all help you by watching the content of our posts.

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Posted by: Sassafras ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 05:26AM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

Eric, do what you need to do to protect yourself and this site. It means so much to many.

I'm sorry to hear about your mom. I know what it is to deal with dementia; be like a reed and do your best to maintain a sense of humor. Within reason, try not to argue with your mother about what her brain tells her reality is. I've learned people with dementia, especially in the beginning, know something is wrong. This creates anxiety. Validation really helps anxiety even if the rest of us know we really aren't having dinner on a cruise ship :-/

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Posted by: seekyr ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 07:39AM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

Nobody likes being threatened with a lawsuit even on the BEST of days. So sorry this happened.

Sometimes people complain about getting posts removed, but we out here are not the ones that will be held accountable for them. I know the other day when it was posted how many people VIEW this site on a day-to-day basis, it was a real eye opener to me!

So I know some rules are just to preserve the peace and purpose of the site. But I'm not quite sure what kinds of things most likely lead to threats of a suit. I'm thinking it must relate to something said about a person. But people talk negatively about all sorts of things here, such as things a church member has done or said, or things that have been written or posted on the Internet.

At what point does it cross the line where someone could actually sue?

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 01:53PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

seekyr: "But I'm not quite sure what kinds of things most likely lead to threats of a suit. I'm thinking it must relate to something said about a person."

It makes sense that this would be high on the list of no-nos. I note that RfM will edit out names of people that some posters mistakenly or otherwise include in their posts. We should even watch what we disclose about our own lives (such as ongoing law suits).

"But people talk negatively about all sorts of things here, such as things a church member has done or said, or things that have been written or posted on the Internet."

I think if we keep it general we're OK. Giving specifics, especially of a third party, is trickier.

However, if something is in the news and we discuss it (such as the FLDS) that seems likely to be OK as it's public record at that point.

Another exception so far here is that we do refer to church leaders by name. In that case, I'm thinking we'd have to somewhat watch what we say but there is wider latitude. Maybe somebody could explain why that is. Public figures are somewhat OK as a "target" perhaps?

I like the idea of each poster giving thought to the wider effects of the things we say, especially as it relates to Eric, who is responsible for everything on and about this site.

It's not a matter of curtailing "free speech" but of having regard for the laws covering libel and other issues related to comments made about identifiable people.

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Posted by: exsoeurorleans ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 08:51AM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles Eric. I've been on and off the board for several years but lately have been coming here more often and finding such comfort in the posts. It's got to be a difficult job in itself keeping track of every thread and reply and making sure things are what they should be.

I hope your daughter's okay and as someone said above, you deserve to be tired and cranky too! We all have our days and the worst ones can seem as if the world is ending.

I'm sorry to hear about your mom too. I'm in the same situation. My mom had a stroke after heart surgery seven years ago and we managed to keep her at home with caregivers until last year. Her dementia is progressing but I find that as long as I'm patient with her it's not too bad. She'll ask me the same thing a dozen times in the span of ten minutes and I know it'll only get worse from here. There are support groups out there for people dealing with elderly parents, dementia, etc. Maybe it would help you to check something out near you?

I know we all appreciate your hard work and diligence on this board. Sending positive thoughts your way today!

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 09:49AM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

Sorry to hear this, Eric.
Hopefully you can get the cache at google killed.
Anybody can sue you, but I doubt any such suit would win anything. That doesn't, of course, mean you wouldn't have to go through all the hassle of a defense...

If I may ask, can you be a bit more specific (without going into too much detail) about the content of the post that kicked this off? So we know what to absolutely avoid to keep from giving you hassles?

And have you contacted the poster who put it up directly, letting them know the trouble they've caused?

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Posted by: applesauce ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 09:59AM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

I'm here to support you Eric. Without you and your website, I would still be suffering mormonism guilt. This has been group therapy for me. Been here since roughly 1996.

Thank you again and again for all you do. I hope you also let the people who wrote the offending thread know what happened. I would want to know if it was something I put out there that caused you pain and frustration, not to mention a lot of work, and anxiety.

Bless you always and I hope your family's health issues get resolved soon...that's a huge worry, I'm sure. applesauce aka Rhonda

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Posted by: spatter ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 12:48PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/linking-copyrighted-materials

Possibly it was slander, or a link to improperly published, copyrighted materials. (youtube, lds)

It won't hurt any of us who like to link to make sure we are linking to legally sourced versions of copyrighted materials. A timely and cute song link is not worth any risk to Erik, even if that wasn't the case in this instance.

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Posted by: RPackham ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 12:57PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

I happen to know who the "offended person" threatening legal action is, because in his first e-mail to Eric he cc'd me, since my name is on the exmormon.org website as a resource person.

Eric has removed the thread, as you know. What appears when searching Google for this person's name is a link to the thread with the title "I am [xxxx] and I am an Exmormon." That link goes to RfM, where the message is "Sorry - the message you requested cannot be found." There is nothing derogatory or misleading about it, and this person really has nothing to complain about.

This same person who is threatening legal action (presumably for defamation or for unauthorized use of his name) is someone who was the subject of articles in national newspapers and news websites for his calling Mormonism a "fraud." But he is now objecting that the Google quote harms him!

I have suggested to Eric that he respond to this person and suggest that he has no legal grounds for a lawsuit, and that his name be posted here as someone who is harrassing him.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 01:08PM

Thank you so much, Richard.

I think your expert advice will once again help RfM and Eric. We all appreciate you.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 01:51PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

So in actual fact, Erik has a better shot at winning a lawsuit for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress than the original complainant has of winning a libel/defamation of character suit?

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 02:53PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

Thank you, Richard Packham, for shedding some light on the mystery person.

Hopefully he'll fade away into the sunset and maybe take up a pseudonym in the meantime.

:)

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Posted by: liesarenotuseful ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 01:05PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

Thank you so much for this website. I don't even remember how I found it, but it has been a life-line for me.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 02:54PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

Me too! :)

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Posted by: AlmostGone1 ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 03:17PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

"whether their company is legally responsible when a third party posts defamatory statements or illegal content on its website." Generally, the answer is no. The Communications Decency Act of 1996, 47 U.S.C § 230,

Eligibility Requirements For §230

The Communications Decency Act provides that a service provider, such as an online blog host, will not be liable for potentially unlawful, or defamatory, speech on its website, if the following three elements are established:

The person or entity must be a provider or user of an interactive computer service;
The underlying claim must treat the service provider as a publisher or speaker of the information; and
The communication at issue must have been provided by another information content provider.

Not a lawyer here but I'd say you are immune to being sued for another party postings.

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Posted by: Hedining ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 03:40PM

Internet Discussion Forums and Libel Lawsuit Threats

Here is a detailed discussion of what was posted above from an attorney working in the field.

http://www.socalinternetlawyer.com/defamation-internet-forums/

A couple of things to think about is to organize the website so it is controlled by a non-profit organization so you can not be sued directly as you would be passively involved in the website ( you are also passively involved but one step further removed and so the responsibility is shared by foundation members.)

I would also look into seeing if you can secure pro bono legal counsel for the foundation for questions like this. I can think of three high profile attorneys who are solid ex-mos who might advise you when needed. You could then refer the jerks threatening law suits to your attorney, and that would end the discussion.

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 04:32PM

Re: Internet Discussion Forums and Libel Lawsuit Threats

Thanks. That was an excellent link. It has been the hassle of dealing with this individual that wears me out. I was busy with my sick daughter and he kept demanding immediate action to delete a post from 2014. He kept upping the threats. There are assholes like this that we have to deal with from time to time.

Two years ago I received similar threats. I deleted a thread that was factual, but embarrassing to this individual. He continued to threaten me. I finally contacted his attorney and asked for it to stop. The attorney offered me money because he realized his client was in the wrong and I could have sued him. I am experiencing the same thing now. I did not take any money. I just wanted the harassment to stop.

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Posted by: W. Cushing ( )
Date: November 19, 2016 12:53AM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

CDA96 does indeed provide some protections for sites like this. There are other steps that should be taken beyond that. It does not, however, make one "immune from lawsuits". There is also case law going back to the dial-up BBS days that would be in favor of electronic platforms such as a forum.

However, the expression in criminal law that "you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride" also kind of applies in civil matters too. It can be very expensive and time consuming to deal with. Being that I haven't seen the, allegedly, offending material nor am familiar with the specifics, it is hard to say how much hassle it could be potentially be. Or for that matter if the individual has retained an attorney or even filed suit yet.

Good luck.

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Posted by: Princess Telestia ( )
Date: November 17, 2016 06:07PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

"freedom of speech gone away much?" I hope you'll be ok.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: November 18, 2016 02:30AM

So sorry this kind of stuff is going on, Eric.

Most of the community has enough sense to behave and be kind to one another.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: November 18, 2016 06:54PM

Thanks for all you do. You have a right to be cranky! (n/t)

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Posted by: getbusylivin ( )
Date: November 18, 2016 07:00PM

Re: Thanks for all you do. You have a right to be cranky!

What cl2 and our other compadres said!

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Posted by: spatter ( )
Date: November 18, 2016 07:41PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

Of course you aren't seeking personal enrichment, Erik. I would never presume to tell you what to do, but am not opposed to humbly suggesting that any such future offers go into the type of insurance and legal structures mentioned above.

A plus would be publishing the (win) result, to deter other assholery. You needn't publish about any insurance purchased, because that can be blood in the water, to some.

You are loved. It's heartbreaking that you would worry about your financial security while exhausted by other life events. No need to respond, just something to possibly consider.

I wish you deep and restful sleep.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: November 18, 2016 09:13PM

Re: Perhaps too tired and cranky

Thank you, Erik, for all you've done for us. I hope this is over.

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Posted by: Doxi ( )
Date: November 19, 2016 10:40AM

Hey, Eric...

Just a thought I had while trying to walk off my RLS(It ain't working, btw)...

What about a disclaimer on the board here? You certainly should NOT be responsible for something *I* or whomever choose to post, and you cannot hang over the board 24/7!

News Flash! You ARE eentitled to a life! No, really, you are!

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