Hey everyone. We've had some Mormon missionaries coming to visit us lately.

My husband and I have always agreed to be kind and accepting of people, especially missionaries, no matter where they are coming from. So we've invited them to eat with us, and we've prayed with them and discussed the Book of Mormon many times.

My husband and I are Protestants of an undefinable nature since we're comfortable anywhere, and with anyone, and find kinship with anyone who trusts in Jesus. So we're happy to have these young men in our home.

They cannot seem to understand that our faith in Jesus is complete and that we don't need to 'convert' or whatever.

I've seen many folks on these discussion boards refer to LDS as a cult, as a money-making machine.

What is the Achilles heel of LDS?

The CES letter. Print out 2 copies and encourage them to return with each point addressed that you can walk through together.

Don't commit to reading anything until they've read the letter and are prepared to answer your questions.

If they try to say no, then remind them of the following bible verses:

1 Peter 3:15 but honor the Messiah as Lord in your hearts. Always be ready to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you.

2 Corinthians 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ

Titus 1:9 He must be devoted to the trustworthy message we teach. Then he can use these accurate teachings to encourage people and correct those who oppose the word.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction.

Philippians 1:16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn’t need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth.


Don't worry, they won't be back.

Thank you, this is good information.

I remember as a youngster I was 100% convinced that my particular experience of Paganism was the pen-ultimate as far as spiritual experiences went.

A wonderful, kind Christian couple invited my husband and I into their home for Thanksgiving (we were living in a tent, it was winter in Maine, and I was miserably pregnant and considering an abortion).

My heart began to soften around all the callouses that had been rubbed there by various experiences within and without the church (from synagogues to temples to country churches).

I just want to be the same kind of witness- gentle, kind, and patient with them. I recognize though, that they have an agenda, and I don't consider it an evil one, not even a fruitless one, but, yes, they are basically just kids and I see my own sons when I see them standing on my porch and pray that people would show them kindness and understanding were they ever in a similar situation.

I have a son on a mission right now. He's almost ready to come home from his state-side mission. He's had no conversions or baptisms. A lot of folks hear the missionary lessons, and some even commit to baptism, but they've backed out with a firm don't come around anymore. This is very common.

Thanks for being nice to the missionaries. I generally talk with them as they are, for the most part, nice KIDS. When the topic of the church comes up, I tell them that I'm a convert and a BYU grad, but I left the church because of doctrinal and historical issues. If they ask more (which they generally don't do), I tell them flat out that religion is a very personal thing and I do not wish to talk about it; but there's plenty of information that's not anti-Mormon, including essays on LDS.org, that acknowledges that there are major unresolved issues in Mormonism should they want to explore on their own.

Although to many here, there may be "silver billets," I found myself going deeper into Mormonism when my parents and friends became jerks and always wanted to confront me (often with inaccurate "facts."). So, IMO, tell the missionaries that you enjoy them, but really have no to interest in Mormonism and really do not want to talk about the church. If you want to continue to be friendly and provide occasional meals or a welcoming place, by all means do so, but that's your call.

Very best wishes! BYU Boner.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2016 02:56PM by BYU Boner.

Thank you- I believe that your suggested direct approach is exactly appropriate in this situation (and MOST others, as well). I get an icky feeling thinking about trying to trick them or otherwise confront them about their deep-seated beliefs. Thank you for setting my thinking back on the right track- forthrightness.

That's pretty much how I treat them when my wife invites them over for dinner. They're kids, and most of them are pretty decent and just want to put in their time with as little drama as possible before heading home. Most visits are primarily shooting the breeze about anything and everything but religion, until somebody notices the time and one of the missionaries says, "Can we leave you with a brief thought and a prayer before we go?" No harm, no drama, no foul.

Most of the missionaries know and accept that I'm not converting, and I like to think of our home as a respite from their tracting efforts. However, the current pair of missionaries seem more dedicated to engaging me in religious conversation...they think that my non-religious views on morality, creation, and the universe are "fascinating". The are also employing the obvious ploy of countering everything I say with, "What you are saying is very similar to what the church teaches." Wow, I didn't know that! Fill up the font, I'm ready to get dunked!

Sarahmics Wrote:
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> ...and find kinship with anyone who trusts in
> Jesus.

What about people who don't trust in Jesus? Can you find kinship with them, too?

One thing to note: mormonism makes a public show about Jesus, but Jesus isn't much a part of the church at all. It's about obedience to the church and its leaders. Which is why so many (including many of us ex-mormons) consider it a cult.

Certainly. I have friends from many faith backgrounds. I myself was a religious chameleon for years, experiencing the gamut of religious identities that I tried (unsuccessfully) to take onto myself.

The kinship between believers in Jesus is something special to me, however, it is neither exclusive to believers in Jesus nor exclusive of people who have other (or no) religious identity. At least, it isn't for me, though I know others who are quite snobby.

I'm sure your kindness is appreciated, even if you don't get through to them about their cult.

There were a few (actually very few, but still...) such kind people who did nice things for me when I was on my mission. None of them were mormons. Just that fact made me think hard -- my church upbringing had instilled in me the notion that only mormons could be kind and giving, and I learned that was false. It began to break down my youthful conditioning. And it made my mostly bare-bones existence as a missionary much more tolerable.

You are genuinely kind and accepting. The missionaries have been raised to "project" that they are kind and accepting. Obviously not the same.

They will continue to be kind and accepting as long as they believe that they have a chance of converting you and/or that you still have food in your refrigerator and pantry.

Mormons put up a wonderful front when they are out to convert. They have no achilles heel because they believe themselves to be 100% right and Jesus is on their side which gives them a Teflon coating and so anything you could say would slide right off as they are sorry for you that you have been deceived by Satan.

They can't seem to understand because they DON'T understand. They've spent their whole lives in an insular culture – one that indoctrinates them into believing that their church is the greatest and most important organization in the world. They've been taught that their way is the ONLY way to return to god.

The basis for Mormonism's very existence is that traditional Christianity has hopelessly lost its way and so a restoration of Christ's true gospel was needed. They think your faith is, and will always be, inadequate; also, in their minds they have the only true "priesthood" on earth, therefore all ecclesiastical ordinances not performed by them are invalid in the eyes of god.

It's right there in their scriptures, as part of their so-called First Vision:

Joseph Smith History 1:18-19:
"…I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong) – and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt…"

For the church's entire history, its leaders have reviled what they term "apostate Christianity," in other words everyone except themselves. It's not hard to come up with direct quotes. For example, an apostle named Bruce R. McConkie wrote "Mormon Doctrine," at one time THE indispensable reference volume, now quietly being buried:

Bruce R. McConkie, "Mormon Doctrine," CHRISTIANITY, p. 132:
"Christianity is the religion of the Christians. Hence, true and acceptable Christianity is found among the saints who have the fulness of the gospel, and a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom. In these circles it is believed and taught that Christianity had its beginning with the mortal ministry of our Lord. Actually, of course, Adam was the first Christian, for both he and the saints of all ages have rejoiced in the very doctrines of salvation restored to earth by our Lord in his ministry."

See? In the Mormon worldview, your brand of Christianity is "perverted," "so-called," and "apostate." Is it any wonder that the missionaries, only 18 years old with no real life experience, can't grasp why you're content in your own faith?

Another thing. I'm not sure if you realize it, but Mormon Jesus isn't exactly the Jesus you're accustomed to. First off, to Mormons, Jesus is Jehovah, the Old Testament god. So, depending on how literally you take the events in the OT (and Mormons do in fact take them literally), it was none other than Jesus himself who ordered global devastation, genocide, etc., or at least a Jesus who is thought to be capable of ordering said carnage.

Second, Mormon Jesus is prone to unleash holy hell on unsuspecting people. If you haven't read it already, the BOM talks about all the cities supposedly destroyed by Jesus after the crucifixion, all of which he brags about in 3 Nephi 9:1-12. (I guess the children in those cities were too wicked to live. Mormons gloss over that part.)

And third: Tithing. It's often referred to as "fire insurance." Why? Because the church teaches that if you don't pay your tithing, you'll be burned at Christ's second coming. That's right – if you don't cough it up, Mormon Jesus is going to burn you alive. It's their own special twist on Malachi 3 and 4.

D&C 64:23:
"Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming."

This is the Jesus that Mormons worship. They may try to downplay it, but it's in their scriptures, they are taught it, and they fully believe it.

If you want to be kind, you still have to be very firm with them. As long as you have these discussions, their (false) hope will never go away that you will somehow feel their spirit and be converted to what they are convinced is The Truth. It is, after all, their job. You're probably the closest thing they have to "golden contacts," and they won't let you go easily. I bet they report you to their mission leaders as "investigators" who are slowly "progressing." They absolutely count you in their numbers.

You didn't specify whether the missionaries were "elders" (18 year old boys, LOL) or sisters. The girls are nearly always polite and deferential, but the boys can sometimes get a bit arrogant and presumptuous. This is because the boys imagine they have the authority to act in god's name because of their fake "priesthood." They're told that they have more power in their little finger than the (Pope, President, whoever) possesses in their whole body. That misguided idea, combined with their immaturity, can go terribly wrong. If they become frustrated enough, they may try to "be bold" with their attempts, challenge you inappropriately, and make utter fools of themselves in the process. Be prepared for that, and have a plan to put them in their place should that happen.

They are indeed young men. One of them we've seen off and on for almost two years- he's getting ready to go back to college- and the other one practically still has milk on his upper lip, bless him. They are so very young.

Those three points you brought up are very good. Like I said, we've been talking to them for a while and I just keep asking, "If you are Christians, and I am a Christian, then what exactly am I supposed to be converting about?" Their answer is always right on their cuff, about new prophets and exposed reality (or something!).

I confess I only started taking notes recently.

I think we finally made a breakthrough last night in trying to understand each other. I said basically that Messianic Jews are to Christians what Christians are to LDS. Except that instead of simplifying the faith it becomes more complicated again. They said EXACTLY, and then looked like they weren't sure after all. But they agreed with the 'progressional' idea at the core of that thought.

Anyway, thank you, I just lack the knowledge and the 'insider view' to be reasonable with them.

Arguing about how many angels fit on the head of a pin. Answer: none, there are no angels

Ok be kind to them but DON'T take the discussions, they leave out all the controversial now-you-joined-your-stuck-here stuff. I mean I don't let them in because of it, or be nice but wear a tank top that scared them away fast from my doorway.

Princess, I am so lacking here that I need a run-down of the controversies, even. Is that in the Essays?

Try this page, "what the Mormon missionaries won't tell you"
http://packham.n4m.org/tract.htm

Book of Mordor, thanks for your post. i've been learning about Mormonism for years on this board, and I'd never realized that Mormons equate the Old Testament Jehovah with Jesus. Wow! I don't think any so-called apostate Christians of any denomination in the world do that. That's fascinating.

NeverMo in CA Wrote:
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> I'd never realized that Mormons equate the Old
> Testament Jehovah with Jesus. Wow! I don't think
> any so-called apostate Christians of any
> denomination in the world do that. That's
> fascinating.

It's pretty standard christian fare...

https://carm.org/christianity/christian-doctrine/jehovah-jesus

Yes, there is a google page of links about "Jesus is Jehovah" but these are to kooky side streams of "Christianity," like the Jehovah's Witnesses. It is certainly not part of any Christian church I have ever attended, as our family moved around when I was a child or that I looked in on as an adult.

Indeed, the feeling of most of those Christian sects is that the Old Testament, with its Jehovah, was the background platform for the coming of Jesus, but that Jesus in fact brought a teaching of Love that superseded the Law-based teachings of the OT. Time after time Jesus of the Gospels begins a teaching with "You have been told [some OT teaching], but I say unto you [the new teaching]."

One key point that should be clinching: OT Jehovah is parochial and judgmental, the tribal god of the Hebrews with their often Bronze Age perspectives, while the keynote of NT Jesus is nonsectarian love and universal forgiveness.

There is certainly a growth trajectory there.

Richard Foxe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, there is a google page of links about "Jesus
> is Jehovah" but these are to kooky side streams of
> "Christianity," like the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Not so. Jehovah's witnesses think Jesus was Michael, not Jehovah. And Roman Catholics assert Jesus and Jehovah are one and the same (it's the only way to justify "trinity" doctrine in their minds).

> One key point that should be clinching: OT Jehovah
> is parochial and judgmental, the tribal god of the
> Hebrews with their often Bronze Age perspectives,
> while the keynote of NT Jesus is nonsectarian love
> and universal forgiveness.

Unless you don't accept Jesus, in which case his "keynote" is burning in everlasting hell.

I know it's useless from the tenor of your posts to try to hold a discussion with you on topics of religion because of course in your mind you're always right but in this case I had to step in for the sake of the original poster because without any personal experience of this matter in terms of actually attending various Christian churches and witnessing the phenomenon you gave her false information.

Because you already have a "trust" in Jesus, which they do too, they see you as someone they can take to the next and highest level, which for them is mormonism.

They see you as having part of the truth, but not all, and now they are here to offer you the part you are missing so you can be complete and have the entire truth and not be lacking anymore.

They feel that since you have part of the truth, you will recognize the additional truth they are offering you, recognizing that you were lacking, and gladly and willingly accept mormonism and all that goes with it.

Their ultimate and ONLY goal is to get you to convert to mormonism.

Mormonism has one Achilles heel.....tell them "NO"! Tell them you are not interested and want no further contact. If they continue to pester you, then start bringing up the Essay's and problems with the church.

Having some "ammo" to shoot through their doctrinal claims, after you have firmly told them "no" and "go away" is about the only way to get them to leave you alone. Knowing you aren't interested, and that you know things that could damage their precious testimonies is about the only thing to get them to stop trying to convert you. It might even get them to tell other missionaries not to contact you.

Good luck.

More than anything, being a missionary is a rite of passage for the young men. You can't go to 'mormon heaven on earth' without it. 'mormon heaven on earth' is coming home from your mission and marrying the head cheerleader, having six kids in eight years and becoming wealthy. Then you become a beloved bishop in a rich ward, then you're called to the stake high council and then you become a stake president.

One of the first questions to come up when two mormon men meet is "where did you go on your mission?" The answer, "I didn't serve a mission" is a real conversation downer.

If you get the chance, ask them what they would have done if they hadn't chosen to go on a mission. It'll be total 'deer in the headlights'! They never had a real choice...

Your belief in Jesus should be enough, plain and simple. No one should demand you believe anymore than that. This is what is so culty about Mormons--they care too much about what others believe or don't believe. If what others believe is fine, they wouldn't send out recruiters in the first place. And even if you did decide to join, as a convert, you will never be as good as those born into it. They crave validation that their crazy beliefs are great, so they leave out all kinds of pertinent information or dodge questions they deem difficult in order to get people to join. As an investigator you are given the bare bones but still expected to make a life changing, "eternal consequences", prompt decision about joining up. It's disgusting.

If you politely tell the missionaries you don't want them to come over anymore, they will still hound you. They are very disrespectful in that way, and it is also a culty move. You will need to do something drastic to get them to stay away and maybe remove you from their book. Some people find that using some phrases and handshakes from the temple ceremony works wonders, especially since you haven't been to the temple and paid dearly for the "privilege". As well-intentioned as you are, the missionaries will take full advantage of any kindness you show them, and this is why most people don't even open up a chat with them. Have you ever tried to remove the white from rice? Yeah, it's like that trying to get rid of missionaries you've been kind to.

The less active I am and the farther from the church and its beliefs I become, the easier it's been to deal with the mishies.

I'm comfortable saying, simply, "No." Hence they have no sway over my words, thoughts, time, or actions. I'm able to be simply me, and be nice to them.

I'm an advocate for feeding them and giving them a "safe" space where they can unwind a little. We used to do that a lot because the lady mishies lived down the block, but I never see them anymore so maybe they have a new apartment elsewhere.

If you do host them, you'll be giving them the opportunity to see that a normal happy person can exist without Mormonism. Just be sure to be consistent and firm if you do so. And remember that you'll be there long after they will have cycled through to another location.

It doesn't take a terribly long time or great effort to learn the dark side of the cult these days. Don't ask them about some of the lessons they were taught at the MTC. Don't ask them if the know how many missionaries have been injured or killed - the "just kids" kind. Don't ask them what "milk before meat" means, or "dead dunking."

Here's a high note - if you have heard their "message," and reject it, there's a special hell for you. There is no redemption without joining. The sadness you will see on the Final Visit is all about you still belonging to the Adversary.

I guess you've noticed that they always travel by at least two. That's so that you, a representative of Satan, can be stopped from influencing a loner. Loner mishies are against the rules. The only time they are allowed to be out of each other's sight is bathroom time. Not very trustworthy... or total control. Either way, that is the level of "trust" or "faith" that the people ruling over them grant. That's right. TSCC has zero faith in these young mens' "faith."

There are several theories about why the church sends the mishies out, usually two-year trips that must be funded by their families, not the church, and the leading theory seems to be:

The Final Indoctrination.

They are hungry, poor, not allowed personal communications with family or friends, and are given one day a week to take care of laundry, shopping, etc. They are in conditions of totally avoidable, utter deprivation, as a means of influence. They come home starving for good food, contact with family, a girl, other normal interactions with people. The only "legal" sex follows a temple wedding, so they get married and start popping out babies pretty quickly. It all goes to plan.

Sort of sick, considering that they are "just kids" doing volunteer work, instead of going to college, working jobs or internships, or just trying to figure out what they want in life.

Nope. They are there at your house, trying to save you from the Adversary. And according to you, they will fail.

"But," you ask, "didn't they freely choose to be missionaries?"

No, not really. BIC (born in the church) means that they have been indoctrinated since birth to understand that it is their DUTY to their family, church and god to go on a mission. It is expected like learning to walk is expected. Their and their family's entire lives are consumed by the church. The church becomes the head of household, and it is "normal" to them. The bond to church is often much stronger than the bonds to each other.

Cult.

All of these nice people on this board know that you are a "seed." That's someone or something which, in this context, causes cognitive dissonance within a brainwashed individual. The mishies have been taught since birth that there is no happiness, righteousness or goodness outside of their cult. You upset that, and beyond simply being a good, kind and decent human being, posters here know that you likely cause cog dis for these young men, and it is one of the most powerful seeds. Simply being who you are is very good medicine for what ails them.

Speaking of anything "anti-mormon," like the CES letter, will send them away from you. So do that if you want them to leave you alone, but if you want to be a seed, stay away from anti-mormon stuff. BTW, you cannot "de-convert" them, not in front of their comp(anion), and trying to do so is "anti-mormon." They are not allowed to listen to it. Exposure to "anti-mormon" material is a "sin," and must be avoided.

The choice is yours. Being kind is maintaining a display of ignorance, but not necessarily being ignorant. Your "Christ-like" opportunity here is to show, not tell, them that they have been taught untruths.

LDS hits all ten of these:

https://culteducation.com/warningsigns.html

Good luck to you.

forget about kindness and getting them knowledgeable - it a waste of time that can be spent helping somebody that would be grateful...

Try to remember that all people are individuals and have different abilities, personalities, needs, and maturity levels. If even one missionary is mature enough, intelligent enough, and open enough to listen to a reasoned discussion, I say go for it. But do not be surprised if you keep hitting a brick wall of comprehension. Most of these kids are in denial that their faith could ever be misguided. Mormon missionaries who were born into Mormonism and indoctrinated heavily from birth find it hard to even think of other religions as anything other than "of the devil". When they are unable or unwilling to discuss a topic that would make their church questionable or untrue they will likely drop the discussion and simply 1. recite their formulaic testimony of Mormonism 2. beseech you to pray to know Mormonism is true and 3. give you passages to read from the Book of Mormon. Very few Mormon missionaries are very sophisticated thinkers or able to think outside their learned box of religious ideas. But you are kind to try and help them. Good luck.

Sorry I can't help you. I can only help you get rid of missionaries.

You need to remind yourself that cult missionaries are brainwashed creeps, who are trained to stalk your children and your loved ones--even if it means destroying relationships.

Do not feed. Do not make eye contact. Back away.

Spend your time doing something fun with your family. Take everyone to the movies, instead.

Your post suggests that you are comfortable with your beliefs. If they pressure you, why not say that? You could say that they are making you less comfortable. They're supposed to be nice, they say.

This is an opportunity to see the "Mormon bubble" in action. It's not the only kind of bubble there is, but you have to see it to believe it. Agree to let them leave with their testimonies intact if they don't try to convert you. Cause it ain't gonna happen.

They are not going to understand your point of view. It's their job to rack up numbers for their cause. To do this they present an image of kindness and helpfulness. It's mostly for show. Unless you might want to join, you likely need to be truthful and tell them to move on and put their effort elsewhere.

They're probably just happy you're not one of the many in the majority who shut the door in their faces.

To actually invite them in, give validation to them as human beings, and feed them is very kind on your part.

They may take that the wrong way and consider you a "golden recruit." You're the reason they're on a mission, remember, are people just like you and your spouse. If they can bait you and hook you, that is their primary objective.

Meanwhile, it is a cult and very much so.

Mormon missionaries and the church in your area will give you a very, no an extremely warm welcome to "love bomb" you into the church.

One very common lamentation of new converts is the moment the conversion is completed with the baptism and confirmation, then the shell shock happens when the love bombing ceases and you find yourself asking what the hell just happened?

As long as you continue to keep your eyes wide open and be wary not gullible to their sales pitch, you should be alright in the lion den. They only appear to be meek and mild. I now compare them to the scriptural "wolves in sheep's clothing."

Missionaries get a very warped view of the people and culture around them. They tend to interact with people who agree with them (members) and people who are at or live in a state of existential disharmony. They grow to believe that everyone needs the comfort of Mormonism because they have little exposure to people who are already comfortable.

The kindest thing you can do for them is communicate. Tell them exactly how you feel. Don't lead them on.

"Boys, you are wonderful young men and I wish you well, I'm sorry that I led you to believe that I was interested in joining your church because I am not. I would love to offer you some dinner and life advice if you are willing."

If you want to plant a seed I would suggest not hitting on the heinous history, nonsensical doctrine, and evil leaders. Most Mormons are inoculated against those three things. My suggestion is that you KISS them with your indifference to their supposed salvation.

Be Prepared: Kindness generally isn't on the LDS menu or agenda, so missionaries may not know how to react...

kindness is viewed and used like staying on the phone with a telemarketer.... so long as they can keep you on the phone - they have a chance -

best just to slam the door in their face.....

One of the most tragic young people I knew from my childhood committed suicide shortly after his return from his two year mission.

He was a quiet introvert who kept to himself. Strikingly handsome, he looked like a young Robert Vaughn.

After his mission he seemed more introverted than ever. Then we heard at church he'd been found at his father's graveside where he blew his brains out.

His mother decided he killed himself because he fancied himself the Christ. WTF? He was severely depressed, and she couldn't see that. He wasn't able to get the help he needed to treat his depression, and it went undiagnosed.

He was only 21. His life should have been beginning. What happened to him on his mission I wonder, that made him become more introverted and give into quiet despair? Maybe if someone had intervened and offered him guidance, simple understanding, he'd still be here today giving his two cents on RfM.

do you find kinship with those of us that don't believe in Jesus?

I'm at a loss as to why being kind and accepting involves inviting soliciting strangers into your house for dinner.

But having said that -- Mormons believe that the only way you can be together with your family in heaven is to be sealed in a Mormon temple (after paying a 10% tithe and passing a worthiness interview.) I would tell them that virtually all Christians expect to be reunited with their families in heaven.

Even if you don't have any good ammo to put in your howitzer, Just remember that you are probably the only people who showed them any kindness while they were on their mission.

Precisely. Kindness matters. That little bit of kindness shown to these missionaries one can hope will have ripple effects for many years to come.

Since you "find kinship in anyone who trusts Jesus" you are, in my opinion, doing exactly what they are doing....trying to win each other over to your own way of thinking. Why else would you want to know " what is their Achilles heel?". You and your husband are hoping to look at these young men's faces and see your own reflection, just as they are with you. I guess you're all looking for validation. Have a nice dance.

There but for the grace of gawd go i...always felt so cozy and comfortable...sort of like santa and the bunny...experience and life eventually causes introspection and questions of how real these preconceived ideas may be or how useful or rewarding..even the warm cuddly christ story gets holes in it whenone reads of mythros and dyonisus or horus...same stories different times but always the same goal...to keep folks believing in a sky wizard who will beat stan in the end...and therell be a fine supper of ribs and diet coke for all believers after the great rapture...whew...no one wanted that to be true more than i did...but santa is just a fat old guy that sells tires and oftimes has really bad breath...but whatever it takes to getcha thru the day...i do pity mishies...its a mind $&@& like no other...cept maybe scientology...or a few other radical crazy idealisms...pick your poison...at least we have that much agency...we seem scattered upon the trail of tears... at different stages ...of our personal journey to mecca

I would simply put it thus way:

Your faith in the teachings of Jesus are basic; the LDS church, perhaps more than any other christian "based" cults, adds a ton of new scripture that in turn leads to a whole pile of new rules, and the simple message of "God's love" is buried in poppycock.....

Typical cult: add some new esoteric knowledge and then say Look here, don't look over there!"