I was thinking that the FAIR response would point out that the bishop had overstepped his bounds with that advice and you obviously need to take care of family first, but get a load of this....

http://en.fairmormon.org/Question:_Should_we_pay_tithing_before_paying_for_food_or_rent%3F

Doesn't reading that make you feel like throwing up a little in your mouth?

A little?

Sure, pay your tithing even if it means you can't pay your bills, and then count on the inconsistent, often not available, and usually grudging "support of others" in your "faith community" to get by.

'Cause that always works out great.

Not.

remember, any one with holding tithing from THE church even for the sake of feeding, clothing, housing their family is a scrooge, but THE church is not a scrooge for demanding "their" money from tithe payers at any cost to families https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXvsOEAeBCg

Hence the morg's favorite activity at this time of the year: Tithing Settlement!! Gotta cough up more money to get to heaven!!

Boy, do I remember the times I paid faithfully. The first thing I paid was the tithing and things were tight. I was crazy back then.
I sure am glad I finally came to my senses. Too bad it took thirty years!

I'd ++LOVE++ for somebody to tell me to my face that I should give money to the church before I feed my family. Because few things in this life are as satisfying, IMO, as laughing in someone's face.

I imagine the reaction to my unrestrained mirth would differ, depending. For example, the face of a bishop or SP would appear short-circuited, perhaps with a few nervous twitches, whereas a missionary's countenance would resemble that of a kicked puppy.

Anyone who pays tithing before paying bills, especially food for children, should have their parenting licence revoked on the grounds of stupidity.

I would seriously like to confront a bishop with that mindset and set him straight on a few things.

RB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2016 07:18PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

This wasn't a rogue bishop. This identical directive has been spewed in General Conference by one of the 70, Lynn Robbins. (See FAIR's Footnote 2.) They're not about to set a GA straight.

Oh, that is SO horrible and brings back so many bad memories.

Yet, it was probably this exact kind of thing that really made me start seeing the tithing scam for what it is. After I separated from my eternal asshole, I wanted to really do the right thing and throw myself into the church full force. Thought that was what I needed to do for my kids. I went to church regularly and accepted callings but I knew it would take awhile to get to where I could pay tithing.

But I had a real tough period between filing for divorce and getting a maintenance agreement in place. Hubby was trying to smoke me out and barely gave me enough to subsist on. I honestly was in a place where I would have had to pay tithing at the expense of utilities or feeding my kids. I didn't even consider it. I was desperately looking for a better job.

It got so bad I couldn't buy gas and I called my father and asked if he could help me. What did he say? "Are you paying your tithing?" I almost thought he was joking. I said, "Dad, I can't feed my kids." He said, "Well, I won't help someone who won't help themself." It really changed my whole world and was the turning point where I never again had any respect for my father. Not helping myself???? That was such a punch in the gut. He told me to pay tithing and he'd help me out. Funny how he never ever called back to see if I did, how it worked out, or anything.

So I decided to go to the bishop. In all the hard times we'd had in our marriage and that I'd had on my own, I'd never done that. I was in the YW presidency, my kids were very active, but he looked at the tithing records and said, "I see you haven't been paying tithing." I said that I was working hard to get into a position where I could and that involved getting a new job and I'd had some promising interviews, yada yada yada. He said, "I will make you a promise. If you pay your tithing, the Lord will come through. You will find a good job and you will be surprised how much of an increase it will be." And he said it all authoritative-like, as if he was receiving some kind of revelation or something. Then he said, "You pay your tithing and if you haven't gotten a job in a month, come back and I will help you." So he obviously was talking out of his butt cause he didn't know anymore than I did.

I wanted to spit in his face and say, "we'll be dead in a month." So I went home and realized I had just enough in my bank account to pay what would have been 10% on the last check (decided I'd start with net pay). I wrote out the check and put it in the envelope to drop in the mail. I figured God would know he could bless me as soon as I mailed it. But I just couldn't quite do it. I was so afraid of what I would do for 2 weeks if nothing came through. But I kept telling myself, "My father, who's my patriarchal leader and my bishop, who's my authority both promised me I'd be blessed. They told me to put God to the test. I have to test him and let him show me." But alas, I couldn't. I needed gas, I needed bread and milk, I ripped it up, threw it in the trash, got in the car and drove to the store sobbing, wishing I could hide from God, hating myself for having no faith.

First thing the next day, the phone rang and the job I'd interviewed for that I hoped so badly I'd get was offered to me. It was a substantial raise for me. Also a few days later, money came through from hubby cause one of my daughters had told him off. I started shaking realizing that it didn't matter whether I'd paid the tithing, I got the job because I was the most qualified person. Kinda like the Grinch when he realized that Christmas came anyway. And then I realized that I was so stinkin close to dropping that check in the mail. If I had dropped it in the mailbox and the next day got offered that job, I would have been sucked in FOR LIFE! I never would have been able to convince myself that it was coincidence, or that it would have happened anyway. I'd still to this day have been cleaning god's toilets on Saturdays and giving him his cut of my heard-earned money.

So I still am glad that I learned that lesson. I never paid another cent of tithing the rest of my life. I did go to the bishop when my daughter got engaged and asked if I started paying tithing regularly if I'd be able to see her get married. He said I'd have to pay back tithing to the beginning of the year and I was like, "not that important, at least I know what I'm not missing." And even though it took me another 5 years to figure everything else out about the fraud, it was a pretty easy slope from there to social mormon to mormon-free.

Wow, NormaRae, I never heard you tell that story before. It's so damn manipulative how they tell those stories about how you'll be blessed if you pay. If you live to tell the tale, then it's all because God saved you.

"If you live to tell the tale..." True. And who doesn't? I've heard so many people say, "We've always paid our tithing and somehow we always made it." Really? What a miracle. When it comes down to it, how many people really don't make it? Percentage-wise, how many people end up on the street? Very few. Somehow we make it. We make it with credit cards and welfare or hand-outs from the church, government, or others. There's a safety net of sorts. And it's there for LDS and Atheists alike. And it has NOTHING to do with giving money to God. Or cults who claim to act for God.

But how many people would have "made it" much easier if they hadn't paid tithing? How many would be so much better set up for retirement? How many would avoid bankruptcy? How many would be able to help their children more? We just don't ask those questions. We have to shut our brains down at "we always made it."

Indeed. And even IF someone lost their car or their home, they could STILL claim they were somehow blessed, and that they 'got by miraculously'.

Perhaps it IS a miracle that people make it while paying their tithing. But who wants to depend on a miracle?

I almost did not go further when I saw the phrase "eternal asshole." I go sidetracked, as usual, and truly wondered: Will we have assholes in the eternities? Are assholes, in fact, eternal? That's a good one to ask the bishop to test his knowledge of LDS doctrine.

I'm so happy I did not/do not have the challenges you have. It's like I said before, I group you in a list of self-made women, who almost had to come back from the dead and claw their way out of the grave.

You are king of the great comebacks. Well, mormon bullshit seems to be eternal, so I guess we'd need the assholes.

NormaRae Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did go to the bishop when my daughter got
> engaged and asked if I started paying tithing
> regularly if I'd be able to see her get married.
> He said I'd have to pay back tithing to the
> beginning of the year and I was like, "not that
> important, at least I know what I'm not missing."
>

Dear NormaRae, Wow. I'm so happy you made it out of the cult. By the way, the bishop who told you that you would have to pay "back tithing" is 100% incorrect. You calling B.S. on that jerk was absolutely the right thing to do. Incredible story. Hugs and best wishes always. -edzachery

NormaRae, thank you for sharing those experiences. I'm sorry you had to live through them. I'm so glad you put your family ahead of the church when push came to shove. And it's so awesome that you were "blessed" for making the right choice. Looking back, perhaps there's nothing better than to be able to say we were never "true believers" to the point of sacrificing the welfare of our family members.

Call pure BS on this idea of pay tithing first. I was a very devote believer and did just this. I lost my house and vehicle because of it. It was during a time when my wife lost her job and we where barely making it on my income. We had to make a choice and it went very bad.

When I went to the local bishop asking sincerely why this had happened after he had promised me that we would be fine financially, his words not mine, the bishop accused me of sinning. He accused me of offending God by living in sin. He told me that i had to have sinned in some terrible way and therefore offended god. He began going down the list and became fixated on sexual transgressions. I have never participated in or committed any of the deplorable acts that he accused me of.

I told him he was full of #$$%# and moved up the latter to the SP whom informed me that the bishop been over zealous in his accusations. He also told me that even though the bishop should not have jumped to conclusions that there must be a problem on my end. He asked me to surrender my temple recommend and to meditate on what possible wrong I may have committed. I was speechless for a few moments. I ended up telling him he was wrong at which point he claimed that when acting as a representative of god he could not be wrong.

This experience lead me down the rabbit hole that eventually lead out of the church.

They are so full of BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I told him he was full of #$$%# and moved up the latter to the SP whom informed me that the bishop been over zealous in his accusations. He also told me that even though the bishop should not have jumped to conclusions that there must be a problem on my end. He asked me to surrender my temple recommend and to meditate on what possible wrong I may have committed. I was speechless for a few moments. I ended up telling him he was wrong at which point he claimed that when acting as a representative of god he could not be wrong."

And they claim that Mormonism isn't a mind-controlling cult.

Mormonism always has an out. If you are not being blessed by paying tithing, than you are being tested. Or you are a sinner. All very convenient for them.

I think it is beyond ridiculous not to fully provide for your yourself or your family before making donations to a church.

My family went without while my father paid full tithing plus large donations to the church. I hate his guts, and I hate his church. So there's a blessing.

Sorry for the repeat post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2016 08:05PM by saltinecracker.

I tend to believe, with little evidence, that people who tell others to skip the rent payment in favor of indulgences have never spent a night under a bridge, much less a month or a year.

They have never not known that food was available, if they chose. They have never had a completely empty cupboard coupled with the empty stomachs of their children, day after day. They have never thought of a dollar hamburger as a luxury.


"Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well- warmed, and well-fed" -Herman Melville

Love your quote!

NormaRae wrote: ""My father, who's my patriarchal leader and my bishop, who's my authority both promised me I'd be blessed. They told me to put God to the test. I have to test him and let him show me."

Wouldn't a patriarch or bishop be the first to tell you that "God will not be tested."? We are supposed to be tested *by* God every time we get crapped on, but even though I can't scriptural references for it, I'm sure that testing God would be tantamount to "mocking" him.

"The Mormon Church: A clusterf&*k since 1830"

Looks like Mormonism doesn't contain the fullness after all. It's full of something. But truth doesn't smell like that.

My family never went hungry through some very lean years and with my wife also working full time and me running interference while running my farm and the church never got a fucking penny. I'm proud of that.

RB

I can understand radical faith. Never get out of the boat unless you're going all the way. If you put on limits, faith doesn't really work.

Faith isn't the problem. Lying buffoons in SLC are the problem. Maybe the members get the leaders they deserve, so it's all good.

I was blessed by NOT paying tithing--I realized the church was a cult and the last thing I ever wanted was another temple recommend. The Fairmormon's Boner.

Yes but no mention of before beer and cigarettes

My family was never 'blessed' for paying tithing. We were the opposite of blessed, not sure what the word for that is.

My personal experience, after leaving the eternal abuser - no money, I went for weeks on one meal a day to te point of becoming severely deficient in iron. I had no food, approched the church, they refused me welfare because I was "not doing enough service" aka toilet cleaning because I sure was doing a whole lot of non LDS related charity work. Anyway, I was hungry to the point of stomach cramping pain. The esteemed Bishop informed me I needed to demonstrate faith. I put my faith in the food that my tithing bought. A decision I will never regret. The way in which the church pray on the vulnerable is sickening.They coerce money from the poorest in their community while other Christian churches feed them in community meals and via food banks. Maybe it is different in the morridor with "bishop's storehouses etc but outside USA it is very different.

I paid and things got worse and then divorced

The windows of heaven did open up and sh*t on me

answers Cludgie's question about a**holes in heaven. :)

I could not count the object lessons I heard in church about people going without food, without rent, without tires for their car, without a winter jacket for their baby, in order to pay a full tithe. Then somehow, someone appeared out of nowhere and gave them THE EXACT AMOUNT THEY NEEDED (it was never anything but the exact amount) for whatever their specific need was. Of course, it was all bullshit, most of it being read directly out of the Ensign, which, as we know from going to the temple, is the Sure Sign of the Bullshit.

I'm happy to report that, while often poor, even after marriage, I never put this to the test. If I needed the money, I needed the money. I took a lesson from my mom. She was always outraged by deacons coming by with those blue envelopes for fast offering money, even though we had almost no food. She took the envelope, walked in the other room, and then back out and handed it back to them, without even opening it. So whenever DW asked if I had paid, I just said yes. Whenever the bishop asked if I had paid a full tithe for the year, I said yes. But mostly I just never showed up for tithing settlement, because of all the dumb things Mormons want you to do, tithing settlement is one of the dumbest.

What part of 10% of your annual increase do Bishop's not understand and it is up to the member to declare if he is a full tithe payer or not. It is not the Bishop's call it is the members!