There have been posts recently about the silliness of the plan of salvation. I agree. Here is an observation. Mind you, I don’t believe a bit of it. I am just pointing out one of the things that seem to go unnoticed.
If exaltation involves becoming a god and making your own worlds the people in the CK will be spread out all over the universe. It will be those in the lower two kingdoms that will be in the same general location as their fellow heathen friends and family.
In my reading it seems that the doctrine of eternal marriage was originally taught emphasizing eternal increase, which means lots of worlds, lots of wives and lots of spirit children. In the early church the concept of family togetherness does not seem to have been the main focus like it is today. As polygamy fell out of favor the doctrine of eternal marriage seems to have been twisted to pertain mainly to family togetherness instead of populating worlds. Well then, can some Mormon explain a couple of things? How will people in the lower degrees of glory be kept apart? Are we all going to be confined to our own little cubicle? Are there going to be walls? Are there going to be guards with flaming swords? Will we get zapped if we travel across the way to see our family? Also, how can Mormon families be together forever if they are spread out in different galaxies? It's all so silly.
Aren't we all supposed to be spirit brothers and sisters living here on earth? So the relationships we thought we had here will necessarily be different in the next life. HF will be the Dad, and all of us will return to being siblings.
I'm an exmo, so I'll go to the Telestial Kingdom (lowest one before outer darkness)
My dad was a TBM, so he'll go to the Celestial Kingdom (highest one).
My punishment for being exmo is to not be with my family (TBM dad) for eternity.
But wait! My TMB dad in the Celestial Kingdom is also separated from me for eternity because we went to different kingdoms after death.
How is my separation from family a punishment, and his separation form family a blessing? Why is my separation supposed to inflict pain and sorrow on me, but his is supposed to a reward with power and glory for him?
I asked him that once when he was giving me the "we'll be separated for eternity of you don't come back to church" talk...and I got the usual deer in the headlights look. Don't these people ever think of things like this?
From what I remember being taught in church. Those in a higher kingdom have the ability to move about in lower kingdoms to visit family who did not make it a high as them. So Celestial can visit both lower areas, Terrestrial can visit Telestial but not Celestial and Telestial can not go visit any one. I just hope my Celestial family does not visit me during the heavy partying I plan on doing in the Telestial kingdom. That is where all the cool people are going in my opinion.
If Celestial beings can visit with Terrestrial and Telestial family members, how is it that those in lower kingdoms will experience eternal separation from loved ones? It could be that they won't be allowed to remember their loved ones, but wouldn't that be torture for Celestial Mormons - like visiting a relative with severe dementia?
Warren Jeffs said that women need to obey the priesthood because if they don't a clone/duplicate will be made of the wife so that the husband won't suffer through eternity.
This doctrine is so poorly thought out, that it can't stand the slightest scrutiny. If we were to be anything like we are now in the afterlife, it would be impossible to maintain all family relationships indefinitely. My birth family didn't even hold together for one lifetime.
Plus, the mainstream Christians fully believe that they will be with their families and loved ones in heaven anyway. I never met a Catholic (Lutheran, Methodist, etc.) who doubted this in the slightest. Christians find this belief to be very comforting. It is a cornerstone of Christian funerals. You WILL see your loved one again. You will be with your loved ones again.
Only the Mormons need to sell that concept to you for 10%.
Yes, Christians believe we'll all be together as the family of God. And we will be able to spend eternity with people we want to be near. No separate kingdoms, no eternal baby making (who ever thought THAT sounded like eternal bliss?) It is SO much more enticing than the Mormon Plan-o-Salv. The Mo plan was initially all about polygamy. And for that matter, a way to lure men in with the promise of eternal sex. But they had to have a reason for the sex so enter spirit babies. You can follow a very easy timeline of how it evolved. It's not like JS ever claimed to receive it all in a cohesive revelation.
It is all just so silly. And the mental contortions you have to go through to try to even make it slightly sensible just conjures up 10 new questions for every one you might be able to wrap your head around. But people believe stupid shit. And with the dumbing down of America, it might even get easier to get people to believe it.
Dispensing with religious silliness like "All dogs go to Heaven," and the heretical (no offense) doctrines of Universalism/Universal Salvation, most--too many!--people sort of assume that they'll go to Heaven, usually because they're "good enough," "not all that bad," or have minimally sufficient participation in or affiliation with a church. It follows that they assume that their loved ones are also, somehow, good enough to make it, or that God simply wouldn't condemn them Hell.
Other people, sure, but certainly not THEM!
I'm a conservative Christian, and I believe in an absolute Hell and a perfect Heaven.* I, for one, accept that many people (even members of my family) will not be in Heaven. I don't like that, and I wish it were other, but I share my thoughts on the matter when appropriate. The simple fact is that many people tragically default to Hell, usually unthinkingly, other times callously, cynically, or even sarcastically.
As one wag once put it, "Hell is full of nice guys."
*I don't believe in literal brimstone and fire, nor in streets of gold and gates of pearl. Rather, these are Biblical images and symbols to convey they idea of things dreadfully horrific & inescapable (Hell) or desirable, beautiful and precious (Heaven) beyond the descriptive capacity of human language.
Got word this morning that a cousin's grandson has passed away after suffering a seizure. He was a big strapping lad but in the end that didn't save him. Life is precious....and short for some. Accomplish much...worry less.
The best part of the Mormon afterlife is the thought that all fâggots will be writhing in the eternal punishment of the Outer Darkness. A similar eternal abode awaits such disgusting individuals in Christianity, Islam, and some other belief systems. It is all rather fascinating from an intellectual standpoint and the mental image is priceless. :D
To me it's the absurdity that people will be put in these "levels of glory", but they'll never change enough throughout ALL ETERNITY to be able to earn their way "UP" to a higher level.
So if you didn't quite make the cut in 100 earth years, there's NO WAY you could possibly improve enough to rise up during the next HUNDRED MILLION GAZILLLION years, which is only a tiny portion of your life, since your life has no end. So will people just turn off their brains in the next life so that they just become a never-changing TV re-run of their earth selves?
If there was a Heavenly Father that really loved us, wouldn't he give us ALL THE TIME WE NEED to improve and get better? I mean, what's the hurry? The LDS version of God just seems very narrow minded, impatient, and really not as loving as most human parents that I know.
Because everyone will be continually learning and growing! CK will always be "more perfect" than the lower kingdoms.
Alternately, I've also heard that "Eternal" is God's name. Literally. As in, "Hi, my name is Eternal, AKA God." So Eternal Hellfire doesn't mean you'll be in Hell forever and ever, just until...God gets you out?
Yeah, I'm a bit fuzzy exactly. These were seminary lessons when I had this "explained" to me as one of those things I would understand as I learned more.
Silly humans! What you don't understand is that time and space are merely constructs of your finite minds. As Celestialized beings, Gods and Goddesses transcend these mortal constructs and exist in all points of space and in all times, simultaneously. Or something like that.
I'm right there with you, Princess! Outer Darkness, with all its weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth, is where I want to be. Of course all that weeping will come from loud laughter; the wailing will be the result of great sex; and the gnashing of teeth—well, that will be sound of all of us apostates eating however much great food we desire. Meanwhile, my TBM family will be "enjoying" heaven by observing the Word of Wisdom and the Law of Chastity forever. Yup, Outer Darkness is definitely my kind of place.
I never understood where the wife stands in all of this. If she is married to a "worthy" husband, then she goes with his family? What happens to her family?
Not that I really care, but these things aren't even on TBM's radar, and kind of blows the whole family togetherness out the window.
Almost two hundred years of straining at gnats and gulping camels...great imaginations have sure come up with some doozies...family forever is only about control...they didnt factor in that most families really might not like each other that much...the tk smoothie thing was just brilliant...no peckers for you aholes...i see you missed 14 tithing payments back in 98 and fuscal year 99...insert your stampeder into slot a...the family thing was also pure genius as most often the mom runs the show...dad might be the head..but mom is the neck and he turns where she tells him to...cuz he likes supper and conjugating
Perhaps Mormons would say that the comparison is like when you have a close grandparent who is actually on a senior mission somewhere--they're right here beside you in spirit, but you don't see them except by Skype. They should be watching their grandkids grow up, but can't. They have to be off in a distant somewhere, a-workin' for their Lord. Why, it could be anywhere. In the highways... In the hedges... They'll be somewhere a-workin', they'll be somewhere a-workin', they'll be somewhere a-workin' for their Lord.
As a grandparent I look forward to the day when I am completely free of having children under foot, snooping around wanting to know what grandpa is up to. I just have no desire to spend eternity with my posterity ad-nauseum clogging up my activities and serenity.
As the old Norwegian taught us in the LTM, "Go away, and come again, but don't stay after Ten." Been there and done that kid thing. Now I want to do something else--the things I had to put aside because getting a little recreation complicated things along the way. They bring me happiness by coming, and going, but never over-staying.
In all my history reading I finally came across the one instance of families existing in heaven--it was an invention of 14th century Kabbalist Jews. Never seen the idea anywhere else until Morgdumb.
What always got me is the notion we are all spirit brothers and sisters. So Mormons practice spiritual incest, eh? BTW, if a physical body cannot touch nor feel the spirit body, then how do two spirit bodies copulate? Carefully?
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2016 12:00AM by stokars.