The other day on Facebook one of my TBM friends made a Facebook posts about the Mormon Leaks and how GAs get paid $120,000 a year. He and a bunch of other momos had no problem with it and went on about how they are all so awesome and give so much and they deserve at least that much. They all had a good laugh at how "weak" and underwhelming the leaks are. They basically fellated each other over and over about how awesome geriatric artharities are and how lame and stupid exmos are. Against my better judgment I threw my 2 cents in on the matter. Hours later he came up with a retort that was in no way very insightful or profound. I had a million things I wanted to say back, but despite this guy's TBM douchebaggery he is a pretty decent dude that I consider a friend, and I didn't want to stir up any unnecessary conflict or resentment between us, so I decided to just let it die. His little post ended up getting numerous likes and a million people came and had a little circle jerk about how smart, funny, spiritual and awesome this guy was and how his supposedly awesome post totally blew away the poor, little deluded exmo. We probably have less than five shared friends between us that are exmos and none of them are as stupid and unrestrained as I am to come and throw themselves into that TBM lions den of snark and superiority.
Note to self: Let the Mormons have their little Facebook circle jerks and don't involve yourself. You will regret it.

I suspect that before the "leak", if the subject of GA pay had come up, this same group would have had a circle jerk about the GA's *not* being paid because they are such awesome and humble dudes called of God, and that any talk of them getting a paycheck was anti-mormon poo-poo.

I try my best not to get into *any* back and forth on FB because I have both super-liberal Hollywood friends and super-conservative-Idaho-living friends, plus I see how bent out of shape my daughter gets on some stupid FB argument that she *should* blow off. :-(

Why is it, do you think, that *his* post isn't considered "stirring up unnecessary conflict," but yours would be?

Hmm?

:)

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin

No point in arguing, they live in their own fantasy world (as did a lot of us at one time). It's a personal revelation that made us exmos most of the time. Kind of like telling a smoker they shouldn't smoke. They'll quit when they want to, not before.

Sometimes a group of people have a narrative going on FB and they are not going to tolerate any dissenters. All they want to hear is enthusiastic agreement with their POV.

I've made the same mistake myself. After a group piled on me for having a conflicting (but respectful) opinion, and my FB friend called me out publicly, I decided I was through with them. So I unfollowed her. I'm much happier that way. I still bump into her on threads from other people, but she is not as strident on those threads as she is on her own.

Perhaps some of the people on the post that you cited will have one more thing to put on their shelves. And as we all know, shelves can only hold so much before collapsing.

Let's put the "modest living allowance" in context:

A. In the same year in which the LDS general authority salary was $120,000, the median household income in Utah was approximately $62,000 (http://www.sltrib.com/news/1585040-155/utah-income-percent-household-data-growth).

B. In the same year, the median household income in the United States of America was approximately $54,000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States).

C. One year prior, "the average family income in Brazil [was] approximately $10,310 after taxes and transfers [were] deducted" (https://www.reference.com/world-view/average-family-income-brazil-deefe6a8853166fd). This income statistic is unclear in several ways, but it's a safe guess that in 2014, LDS general authorities were making at least five times more income than the typical Brazilian tithe payer.

I'll give the church credit for not paying general authorities CEO-style salaries. $120,000+/yr. is not an obscene salary. But these "modest living allowances" are not modest by Brazilian, American, or even Utahn standards.

From what I understand the $120,000 is not taxed, so that would be a net income. To bring home that much in a year you would have to make around $190,000 gross a year. Then add in all the perks; insurance, schooling for their kids, travel, insurance and the list goes on. That would add up to easy another $50,000 a year. So now it's actually $250,000++ per year. This not counting housing, meals, auto, clothes, etc, etc.

$170,000 a year.

They need to feel important and belong to an important group led by wonderful men ad nauseam. I remember feeling so much better than the unwashed masses. Put a big divide between me and all my family which are nevermos.

Usually I avoid Mormon's all together but if/when I engage a Mormon today I do it face to face and with a big 'your kidding me' grin on my face.

They don't like it (or me usually) but life is much more fun when I am laughing. (And yes, I AM laughing at them!)

They use to irritate me with their self righteous arrogance, but I am finding life is so much more enjoyable when I can use humor to difuse an oncoming confrontation.

I kind of like to think I am driving my BIL up the wall as he would like to defend the cult but there is no defense for a hardy chuckle. He turns red in the face and looks like he could spit nails.

Howdy Taters! Yeah, I've heard the same thing--the GAs give all their lives for the Gospel so they need living allowances. Right, and other religious leaders do the same thing, but get "paid." Mormonism has paid clergy for the top dogs and full-time seminary and institute teachers--just not the local guys.

During the pre-1991 temple ceremony, old Stan used to offer the Protestant minister money for preaching. It should have been revised to offer the guy a living allowance.

I agree with letting the good friends alone for the sake of friendship if they're good friends. Hell, I even ask my TBM friends to bear their testimonies to me! I listen politely and say that the never had that knowledge.

Best wishes! The Minister's Boner.

Sorry, um, but you people are buying into another lie. $120,000 a year is a ridiculously low number, so some Mormons are happily admitting to this. It's closer to a million dollars.

You're still forgetting the stocks! I inherited a tiny amount of stocks from my GA relative--he had enough for hundreds of his progeny. The interest, alone, of my tiny gift is enough for a modest family to live on!!!

You have no idea of the wealth of the GA's!!!
Do you know how much men are paid to be on a Board of Directors?
Do you know how much "consultants" get paid?
What about book royalties?

My GA relative had free gas and tires--and so did his whole family--and a discount at the old ZCMI. Free hotel rooms. My relative's wife would call on the phone and order her groceries and clothes delivered from ZCMI. They owned land, and three houses. They always had a chauffeur/gardener, a cleaning lady, a full-time cook. He became an apostle at a young age, and didn't work at any outside paying jobs. Where d'ya suppose all that wealth came from?

I might be able to afford to shop at city creek with those kind of wages

If I were to set bounderies on what a livable allowance was, I'd probably say 10K per person in the household, with a minimum of 30K.

That means, for a single minister or a minister and his spouse, that would still be around 30K. If that minister and his spouse had 3 children, that would be 50K.

If we are providing that Ministers house, that probably is enough for a decent living (most people spend around 1/3 to 1/2 of their wages on housing so that actually isn't that bad of a deal).

I would consider that a modest stipend. Of course, many Baptist pastors want to be paid more, and for such an unhumble pastor who pursued the riches of the world instead of the blessings of the Lord, we'd lose them pretty rapidly as they moved onto bigger and better paychecks at other churches.

In that instance, many wouldn't feel that bad to pay the head pastor 60K to 80K in our modern times, especially if it's a decent sized or larger church (that means you'll have to have at least 60-80 families donating around 2k a year each as, not only do you have to pay that pastor's salary, you also have to keep the lights on in the church and possibly pay the secretaries and such).

I know Methodists when they have served for a while and are over a medium sized congregation are probably making around 55 to 60K. Someone who tells you they are making over 100K are probably either stupid, ignorant, or telling a blatant lie that should be called out on it.

Payments differ from congregation and church to church. While more humble Baptists may feel what I stated to be totally in line with what a humble servant of the Lord should be paid, some of those from richer and more affluent neighborhoods may feel that a youth pastor should make around 60K and a head pastor should make something like 250K. It all depends on the congregation and the church.

In that light, each church makes their own rules about what they feel is sufficient for a servant of the Lord in their midst.

If Mormons feel that 120K is a modest stipend, and most of them are not bothered by it, or feel that it is actually insufficient, than more power to them.

If I were at a Baptist Mega church and they paid their pastor like that, I might be tempted to walk out and find another congregation of Baptist, and sure as hell probably wouldn't put anything on the plate when it passed...BUT, that would be an individual choice. Their congregation (though it lies more heavily on the council of elders in that church) has made that decision that this is an adequate payment for the pastors services.

If I were to try to make a ruckus in that situation, that congregation not only would probably be very rude to me, but kick me out and say if I wanted to do things differently, go find my own church and pastor, but don't interfere with theirs.

Hence, if Mormons are patting their backs and are very happy about paying their General Authorities that much in a stipend, let them be. As the OP showed, to try to dig into other people's desire to pay their pastors what they feel is right, sometimes can only cause grief and pain to the one who may feel it is not the right thing to do.

At least, as far as I would see it from how a Baptist church might handle things. Things may vary in the Mormon religions, but I don't think it would be that different from what it seems the OP indicates the LDS reactions to the stipends are. In fact, it seems to be very much that the members approve of that money that is being paid to their Leaders, and as such, I'd say...if they are happy to do that, let them be on that issue.

I think there are two things at work here, Betty. The first is the oft-repeated saying of the Mormon church that their leadership is unpaid. This may be true at the local level, but has now been proven to be blatantly untrue at mid to upper levels. It's a matter of keeping the Mormon church honest. Their leadership is a paid one. And as the Anon relative of a GA points out above, the $120K is likely the tip of the iceberg.

The other point is that unlike your Baptist and Methodist churches, the Mormon church does not publish its financials. Members are expected to donate substantial amounts of money without knowing where that money is going. The church *says* that tithing funds were not used to build the City Creek Mall, but how do the members know that, really?

With honesty and transparency, the membership would be able to fairly evaluate if that's how they want their money spent.

in an effort to condemn the Mormon church for having paid leaders.

They never used the example of this payment to try and "prove" their own validity.

Maybe you do need to stop engaging TBM's on Facebook. But when you do, I'm guessing there is someone sitting behind a computer paying attention. You could be unknowingly helping someone.

My ex's first cousin is one of the seven presidents of the seventy. He made a fortune in partnership with a famous mormon perveyor of self-help and business advice. He didn't need the $. I'm convinced he 'knows' but ego and family ties prevent him from speaking out. Not the $. Doesn't need the $ but takes it anyway. He 'donated' a substatial property to the church. Family just thought it was to help out. No, it was because you give them everything and they make it worth your while.

20yrs after Google, the Mormons who're likely to be persuaded by logic, morality, empathy or ethics are already out.
The remainder are the most deeply committed to the Team.
It's a lot like being on a football team, or rooting for one, (which I'm about to go do in about 1/2hr) If you're a fan of the Seahawks and you're at a bar drinking and some guy starts yelling for the other team, he better be prepared to take a lot of shit and stand up for himself. I've seen fights break out in Seahawks Stadium. You can count on it if a drunk Raider fan starts mixing it up with a Seahawk fan. I'm sure it happens every Sunday in just about any stadium in America.
It's the same with MOrmons on FB or anywhere else on the internet.
They maintain the world's largest army of brainwashers to go out and convince the world to sing the praises of a child rapist and believe in his pornographic pagan scriptures, but when they come on the internet, they gang up on anybody who talks shit about their team.
Kind of like being in BYU stadium rooting for the Utes.
All of the sudden Mormons aint so fuckin nice anymore.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2017 02:56PM by koriwhore.