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Posted by: Exmogal ( )
Date: May 16, 2011 11:30AM

Anyone out there familiar with Utah teen drug rehab (residential) programs and facilities?

There seem to be a lot of them in Utah. I've read about a few but am wondering if they are run by Mormons and/or have a Mormon focus.

I'm looking for one that would not be with a Mormon focus.

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Posted by: CelticWhisper ( )
Date: May 16, 2011 04:07PM

Long-time lurker here but I have to come out and post this: as some here may know, Utah and the Mormon church have some intimate ties to an organization called WWASPS - WorldWide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools. They focus on "tough love" programs, wilderness camps, and other troubled-teen help programs.

Avoid them. Like the plague. Run and do not look back.

These "Specialty programs and schools" are nothing more or less than institutionalized child abuse. If you Google for "Tranquility bay" you'll read plenty of horror stories, and TB is not the only program that WWASPS runs.

Also reference: (not strictly related to WWASPS)

I realize I'm only presenting one side of this story, but I feel it's a side that has to be presented. Children have been tortured and killed in these programs and the facts twisted to portray it as having been their own fault, and parents are brainwashed along with their children in "Parents' seminars" to keep them sympathetic to the organization that is handling their children's behaviour modification.

I apologize if I'm completely misreading your situation. It's just that I see "Teen rehab" and "Utah" and red flags shoot up left and right in my head.

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Posted by: AIC ( )
Date: May 29, 2011 02:50AM

It is true...I have worked at one!

I was not much into the abuse. I find I get into trouble often being one who like to stand up for the underdog!


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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: May 16, 2011 04:08PM


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Posted by: CelticWhisper ( )
Date: May 16, 2011 04:12PM

Oh, one more name to look up: Valerie Ann Heron.

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Posted by: Exmogal ( )
Date: May 16, 2011 09:22PM

I've already wondered about this very thing, if there is abuse within such organizations.

But what I am also noticing in all the research I've done on teens who are seriously addicted and having trouble, is that many of them have no ability to follow any rules of any kind whatsoever. Some of the former students/patients/inmates at places like this have claimed to have been abused (not sexually--that I know of, but if they have, then forget it... It's not going to ever be something I'd risk my child having to face)
physically in terms of being restricted as to what they can and can't do, posessions they can and can't have... and the truth is, rehab with out of control teens who are used to stealing, lying and cheating to get their drugs are going to find even the slightest bit of restriction like being in a jail cell.

So I wonder if to them, there is any such a program that would not be considered abusive. Just wondering.

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Posted by: CelticWhisper ( )
Date: May 17, 2011 12:00PM

Thing is, these were found to be abusive by people outside the camps too. There was one in Mexico called High Impact that was closed down after it was found that the kids were being kept in cages outdoors in the sun. Also, at Tranquility Bay, there were reports of kids being maced and put in physical stress positions designed to inflict extreme pain without leaving marks. Finally, they use something called "observational placement" where the kids are sent to a bare room to lay face-down on a tile floor and remain completely still for hours (sometimes days) on end.

This is also saying nothing of the hygienic conditions at these facilities (several cases of lice and scabies were reported).

I definitely see where you're coming from with regard to newfound restrictions seeming abusive from the eyes of the child subjected to them, but these are pretty clear-cut instances of abuse.

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Posted by: Itzpapalotl ( )
Date: May 17, 2011 12:26PM

and the aftermath of this woman's life.
Cassandra on A&E's Intervention

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2011 12:34PM by itzpapalotl.

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Posted by: armandjoe ( )
Date: May 26, 2011 11:30AM

Today's teenagers are not like any generation I have seen before. In my opinion, they are far more dangerous. They have been desensitized by various media to the point where they feel utterly invulnerable and completely justified in behavior that is beyond dangerous to themselves and others around them. They should be sent into

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2011 02:50AM by Susan I/S.

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Posted by: Mr. One Two ( )
Date: May 26, 2011 01:10PM

If you're still looking... let me suggest Weber Human Services...

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Posted by: Deco ( )
Date: May 26, 2011 01:22PM

Was quite a bit like the movie 'Over the GW'

Here is an interview with the director. You might be able to find the whole film online somemwhere.

Please do your homework before sending someone there- Just read the youtube comments attached to this clip.

There are many more like this. Google the Midtown Q group, or the Pacific Clancy group.

I would also recommend reading the orange papers for a better background about the recovery world.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 26, 2011 03:04PM

Reminds me of a fifteen-year old I had in rehab...

She couldn't deal with her issues or disease, either, and her lies about what was in her "treatment plan" had the whole patient community in an uproar...

Until she was exposed the way I'm doing to you...

On the other thread, you identified the quack-remedy, the "Sinclair Method" as a cure for alcoholism... At best it was a treatment... And a dangerous, unproven one at that...

You've claimed the American Medical Association have been brainwashed into the "AA Faith," another whopper as well...

And those "Orange Papers" amount to the same sort of adolescent balderdash... You parroted the talking points that distorted the Valliant research. Too, I explained that one and offered current reporting by a Harvard researcher who's a psychiatrist and addictionologist, and your perceptual blindspots extended to not even acknowledging what it said.

That's your disease, bud, and you're looking for enablers to continue with your using...

Sorry, but I don't play, and I'm mean enough to tell you to go ahead and go out there and die, but don't ask others to watch your act...

Here's the lowdown, again, on the Orange papers...

And the other two links from the gentleman's site...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2011 03:08PM by SL Cabbie.

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Posted by: Deco ( )
Date: May 26, 2011 05:53PM

I stand by all my statements and challenge people with addiction issues to do their own research.

The orange papers are a great place to start, as well as morerevealed, and stop13stepinaa.

I think people will notice that I confront the AA faith,and its profitable business arm, the recovery industry cartel rather than the individual evangelists promoting it.

I have noticed, and I am sure others have also, that rather than address the very real and dangerous issues in the AA faith, such as court ordered vulnerable female DUI offenders being forced to share intimate secrets with the criminal predators that are allowed to network and operate anonymously in the AA faith, members of the AA faith continue to resort to bitter and nasty personal comments.

I do not have a 'disease', nor have I drank in years. I also do not accept the dogma and poorly contrived theology of the AA faith.

It is exactly like the LDS responses to those who question that faith.

The only difference is that I am not aware of anyone being sentenced to participate and convert to the LDS faith by a court of law. People are sentenced to the AA faith every day by US courts, employers, and organ transplant teams threatening the withholding of organs for failing to convert.

Quite frankly I think people understand the serenity hornets. I do not want what they have.

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Posted by: Deco ( )
Date: May 26, 2011 06:33PM

'Until she was exposed the way I'm doing to you...' I do not think would qualify as a well thought out response to me (as well as wishing me dead later in your comments)

I cannot respond to the Green Papers thing as well as my friend Ken Ragge did. Quite simply the Green Papers have NO credibility.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 27, 2011 04:41PM

"Because I said so defenses" are used by the apologist crowd...

You haven't drank for years? Why? The Sinclair Method would cure you... You said so yourself...

And knock off the phony martyrdom/victim act claiming I wished you dead. I simply said if you wanted to kill yourself I wouldn't stand in the way...

One element of recovery you missed is growing up and taking responsibility for one's disease and one's recovery... What'd you do, substitute another addiction--like the LDS Church--for yours?

And your friend with the website is using stuff right out of the "Apologist's Playbook."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2011 04:49PM by SL Cabbie.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 27, 2011 05:07PM

The dishonesty on the site "Deco" linked is readily apparent, and what it does have in common with Mormon apologetics is a cherry-picking of essentially "ancient" research and extracting claims to support the obvious agenda...

This is also evident in the claims made of Dr. Valliant's research. Dr. Valliant followed some near end-stage alcoholics, and he was indeed horrified at the prognosis in such situtations. But that's hardly the fault of AA...

Here is a 2001 Interview with Dr. Valliant, who served as a non-Aolcholic trustee for AA's World Services...

>George E. Vaillant, M.D., joined AA's General Service Board as a Class A (nonalcoholic) trustee in 1998. He is professor of psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, director of the Study of Adult Development, Harvard University Health Services, and director of research in the Division of Psychiatry, Brigham and Women's Hospital. The author of The Natural History of Alcoholism Revisited, a comprehensive study of alcoholism, George lectures widely on alcoholism and addiction and is one of the foremost researchers in the field.

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Posted by: Deco ( )
Date: May 28, 2011 12:54AM

Another poster has claimed the Sinclair Method is dangerous and unproven. Well since Naltrxone has been approved by the FDA since 1984, I would suggest some proving has happened.

This is in addition to a 2001 interview with Professor Valliant that was published in the AAGrapevine publication. This publication is produced and marketed through the AA corporation (AAWS) It has roughly the same credibility as the RJ Reynolds medical research, or the racial diversity shown in Ensign photos.

Even in this slanted piece, Professor Valliant TWICE states that less than half (40%) of people stop drinking with the assistance of AA. I cant imagine how that number was printed.

This is a serious issue because people die. Individual anecdotal claims are cited as unquestionable medical fact and people die from this misinformation that is promoted as medical fact.

The other poster has asked for peer reviewed studies, while citing AA propaganda. I again ask what are the success percentages he feels are the norm for the AA faith.

The nightmare scenario for the AA faith is their 5% success rate (which has many collaborating sources all pointing to a 5% success rate) to become public. This number is becoming more and more public everyday.

The promotion of misinformation continues to kill. This is especially important today as Dr. Drew's trainwreck of treatment has claimed another life. Jeff Conaway died today, in addition to the death of Drews other patient, former Alice in Chains bass player Mike Starr who died in February, and the recent drunken arrest of his other star patient, Andy Dick.

For people who have issues with addiction, self research can save a life. There is so much skewed data because the AA faith has basically stopped all research in the addiction field, as they cite their program as perfect.

Here is some very good independent research, and it sheds some disinfecting light on the traditional recovery industry, that certainly is the worst healthcare disaster in modern medical history.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 28, 2011 03:11AM

Aspirin has been approved for god knows how long, and it's still capable of killing people.

You've demonstrated you're utterly incapable of critical thinking... Naltrexone is popular because the patent expired on it recently, and in generic form, it's quite inexpensive.

You engage in slanted interpretations and continue insulting professional people who've dedicated their lives to helping (my sister, an MD being of them; she also teaches at a major univerisity and regularly fact checks my information as well).

Now, why aren't you drinking if you've been "cured"?

And that "Baldwin" nonsense amounts to nothing more than some serious quacks. The obvious paranoia he displays is unbelievable; if he could get his research published (but it won't pass peer review, a novel concept to you, I know), the world would beat a path to his door.

And that comparison of AA to RJ Reynolds is pretty diagnostic of your thought processes. AA is absolutely non-profit and regularly faces problems because donations from groups exceed its operating expenses. As a result, an AA "Big Book" is still under ten dollars...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 03:19AM by SL Cabbie.

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Posted by: Deco ( )
Date: May 28, 2011 11:01AM

As far as the 'Big Book'- which the first 164 pages pages being considered canonized scripture of the AA faith- which since its writing has not even had a punctuation mark changed- should really not be considered scientifically valid.

The 'big book' also recieved a scathing review from the American Medical Association (sound familiar?)determining the book 'religious exhortion' and having 'no scientific interest'

This is in addition to the fact that corporate AA did press criminal charges against people in Germany and Mexico for copyright violations, because these people GAVE the books away.

Here are the court transcripts...

This does not include the FACT that William Griffith Wilson, aka Bill W, left 10% of the royalties of the book to his mistress.

People are continuing to die because of the lying that continues in the AA faith. This pattern of lying has permeated through the recovery industry- to the point the industry kills people such as Jeff Conaway and Mike Starr.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 28, 2011 03:01PM

I don't know why this poster has been continually permitted to post here; I began reporting this individual through channels at the outset... And I've stuck as much to the high road as I can despite the very real danger this sort of information poses to parents seeking help for children with addictions... And to individuals who may be questioning their own drinking habits.

Almost nobody here would stand for a claim like "Tahitian Noni Juice Shown to Cure Cancer," and yet that's what being touted in these alcoholism "cures" above... A pop psychology book being touted by a fringe individual with zero medical training is somehow given more weight that 76 years of solid research...

Here now, the talking point is "Jeff Conaway was murdered by the alcoholism treatment industry" (fill in your own conspiracy scenario), perhaps by the hand of Dr. Drew himself...

For those wishing to read the entire story, Conaway managed to achieve a period of recovery (and garshgoodness, he even got together with John Travolta to learn about Scientology), and then began relapsing.

He was featured on "Celebrity Rehab" and Dr. Drew Pinsky (who knows a bit about addictions treatment) spent considerable time and energy with him (and I'm certain Dr. Pinsky was devastated by Conway's death, although probably not surprised).

Now the logic is the treatment was what caused Conaway's death, and not the drug overdose...

I stand all amazed and enlightened...

Hmmm, what do alcohol and AA have to do with a death from a narcotics ovedose there, guy? And you still haven't answered my question of why you don't drink if the "Sinclair Method" offered you a cure...

BTW, for those who wish to know the origin of this crapola, it amounts to talking points from a site called "Stinkin' Thinkin'"
and the name for that one comes from an old 12-Step cliché that we use to describe the "mental mismanagement" that often precedes a relapse into active use...

Somebody with a computer went to a rehab and didn't want to be told they could never safely drink again, and now they're out holding the rest of us hostage for that reality...

When they're not too intoxicated to sit down in front of their monitor...

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Posted by: Deco ( )
Date: May 28, 2011 10:48PM

I would certainly question pinsky's authority and credentials on the subject of addiction.

My friend and collegue Dr.Stanton Peele did...

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Posted by: Deco ( )
Date: May 29, 2011 02:33AM

Sorry for the improper spelling of 'colleague'

New phone and not used to it.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 29, 2011 04:13PM

Stanton Peele's credibility on this subject amounts to a "peeled zero."

He sold out years ago, and I don't know whether it was because he was crazy, drinks too much privately on the side, or just greedy because there's more money in telling rich alcoholics they can continue to drink rather than telling po' lower bottom sorts they can't...

See how many invitations he gets to prestigious events like the University of Utah summer session on alcoholism (which I've attended several times; the former director once offered me a scholarship).

By contrast, I just linked a piece on my sister for a few of my friends who were blown away; she can get on national television, and Peele can't...

Damn vast AA conspiracy anyway...

It's not your phone that's malfunctioning; it's your tinfoil hat...

Or maybe it was that dysfunctional childhood when your mother told you not to worry that you were out of step; it was the whole parade....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2011 04:14PM by SL Cabbie.

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Posted by: Deco ( )
Date: May 29, 2011 08:34PM

Personally I would consider writing a piece for Pyschology Today to be somewhat prestigious, not to mention Dr. Peele was just on ABC News. I guess that doesn't carry the weight of some some Utah AA roundup.

Well you now have managed personal attacks on me, Peele, and WOW even my mother in one response.

I think either this is the manifestation of TOTAL lack of credibility, or you may be seriously losing it.

People should be able to move on and progress in life, however, from the sounds of it, you should not and rather be on the phone to you sponsor.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 08:21AM

Although it's not surprising that someone claiming Stanton Peele as a colleague wouldn't realize that... But you know these things are true because you read them on the Internet...

Lessee, you've denigrated people who've spent their lives helping others, including several I can point to who've directly benefitted my many years of continuous recovery (I met Clancy once and knew several who knew him well), accused AA of being a "death cult" and implied it was a massive conspratorial fraud (although unlike the LDS cult, we don't have missionaries; liquor and drugs do our conversion work for us), called Dr. Drew Pinsky a murderer, implied that alcoholism was not a disease but curable under a treatment that never received FDA approval... But won't answer my question on why you don't drink yourself if the Sinclair Method is really a cure...

Plus you've linked to claims by an entertainer with no experience or training on the subject and insisted it was valid, misinterpreted the research of one Harvard scientist, discounted another pretigious addictionologist, cited reports blaming AA for the deaths of people who drank after going to meetings (when AA was modestly suggesting to them they might, just might be "powerless"),

And now have the chutzpah to suggest I'm picking on you for suggesting you're a couple of empty cans shy of a six pack...

Sorry, bud, but in a slander or libel case, the truth is a 100% defense...

If there's anyone out there still watching this train wreck, please give a hug to anyone who works with teen addicts (and yes, there are charlatans out there; I know because I worked for both kinds of programs) and watch the following...

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Posted by: Deco ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 11:52AM

That is a pretty good list, however, it is short a couple.

I also accuse the AA faith of a conspiracy to stifle a large number of people since 1976, who have asked AA to be honest about the FACT they are a religion, as EVERY court case has determined.

Here is the report one of our people working at AAWS Inc forwarded to us and is hosted by the orange papers.

Yes the AA faith does have missionaries,here is a copy of their requests to judges to recruit via a court order.

This is in addiction to the coverups of 13th stepping, and the facitilatation of criminal predators being encouraged to network anonymously. The recent home invasion of a Delaware physician, and the rape/torture/killing of his family and burning down his house, was done by an AA sponsor/sponsee tag team, that met in AA.

It is extremely unfortunate that young female DUI offenders are court ordered to meet with these offenders, as well as some people trying to qualify for an organ transplant.

AA requires no licensing or supervising of their 'sponsors' This leads to some very bad situations, such as authoritative counseling of vulnerable people to stop taking all forms of medication such as high blood pressure meds, birth control pills, and insulin by persons with no medical training whatsoever.

These are all serious charges, and as an apologist and defender for the faith you have only managed to reply with biting personal attacks rather than actually answer ANY of the charges.

Perhaps you should get a job at FARMS or FAIR, however I do appreciate the fact you mention the 'stinkin' thinkin' website for people who may be reading this discussion.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 03:16PM

For the boys in white coats to come get you (we've arranged a special cell for you in Gitmo, and I called AA World Headquarters and got some spyware that collected your ISP numbers and cell phone "chirps"--remember that story about iPHones?), let's look at the movie reviews of that "Over the GW" that you recommended...

LA Times:

>At a mere 76 minutes, the movie skips past what seems like lots of crucial exposition in favor of vague flashbacks and confusing inserts.

The other Times, the one in Manhattan:

>Over the G W follows a troubled brother and sister as they are committed to a New Jersey treatment center by their well-meaning parents

Seriously, I would've spotted the treatment center as a fraud for taking the brother and sister at the same time; any ethical center, knowing about addiction and family dynamics, would've made sure to refer one of the siblings to a separate facility. And the only connection AA has with these places is they rent room space for meetings. We do the same thing at jails, and that doesn't mean we're jailers... We try to help people liberate themselves from the prison of alcoholism and addiction in fact... As well as the prison of the delusional "reality" they live in... In your case, though, I said at the outset, "What an order, I can't go through with it."

Aaron Hills, Village Voice

>An undeniably personal if amateurish psychodrama... Gaglia's torture re-creations become rote quickly, and his cross-processed, color-tinted, randomly inserted, over-zoomed Film School 101 indulgences need their meds adjusted.

Raven Snook, not doubting the filmaker's sincerity...

>An earnest but amateurish look at a cultlike rehab, Nick Gaglia's semiautobiographical debut feature means well. Then again, so did his parents when they condemned him and his sister to a sadistic substance-abuse program.


>Writer-director Nick Gaglia has fashioned a documentary-style drama that is too narratively disjointed to achieve maximum impact, but too emotionally potent in fits and starts to be dismissed out of hand.

Those are grown-ups speaking, bud... But thanks for serving as a poster child for how addiction can screw with people's thinking (it's a bit contagious, too. I've been bothered by some resentments listening to you, but then I have these tools and some good consultants).

Now here's some reality for you: AA offers guidelines for members working in treatment fields; one has to pass a background check to enter a locked facility such as a jail, and it's assinine to blame the Fellowship for something members do; down south most criminals are probably Southern Baptists, and I don't think anyone holds Baptists to blame... And the Catholic Church isn't being blamed for its pedophile priests, only for the cover-up and the failure to remove offenders from their ranks... I admit to a bit of "libertarian" qualities on the subject of priesthood celibacy, BTW...

And for a religion to allow atheists and agnostics (I know several), my garshgoodness...

For those few still reading this who've wondered about Charlie Sheen, well, "Deco" is doing a very credible impersonation...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2011 03:18PM by SL Cabbie.

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Posted by: Deco ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 03:33PM

is for Charlie Sheen to go on and enjoy life.

I have actually heard people in the AA roomz wishing Charlie Sheen would hurry up and die. What serenity.

I have exchanged emails with Charlie Sheen. He does hang at some of the websites I do. He is doing great. He has certainly faired better than Jeff Conaway, Mike Starr, or Drew Pinksy's other star patient Andy Dick.

Charlie was a victim of the AA conspiracy, the cult is very powerful will not put up with ANY dissention.

Stinkin' thinkins numbers are going through the roof, and one of our co-hosts is currently writing a book with Dr Stanton Peele. We are gaining momentum and we will not be silenced.

People do need to be warned of the fraudulant recovery industy, their incestuous ties to the AA faith, and the fact that this disaster is marketed as legi healthcare. People are dying because of the misinformation that continues to be promoted by the AA faith, and fraudulant docs such as Pinsky.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 04:15PM

People were applauding Craig Ferguson--another one of those damned AA success stories--for not poking fun of Charlie because he was so obviously mentally ill...

Cabdriver Confession: I don't think I could aspire to Craig's level of "sainthood."

I fell on the floor and practically had to be restrained over Robin Williams' comment about Poor Ol' Charlie...

Ol' Mork noted Charlie's "doing rehab at home" was like a "self-administered colonoscopy."

Robin, BTW, is another meeting goer...

I did have one thought: You're not with Scientology are you? Out to discredit AA so the clambake crowd can have all the new recruits for their NarcoNon program out there...

A warning on that one, folks... Nar-Anon is a 12-Step support group for those with relatives or friends with narcotics problems. NarcoNon's are Hubbard disciples...

Proud 12-Step Apologist

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2011 04:17PM by SL Cabbie.

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Posted by: Deco ( )
Date: May 30, 2011 06:46PM

Scientology now--really?

Considering on just about every other thread you comment on the word 'strawman' is SO overused I am amazed you can have the audicity to use such diversionary tactics. I keep wondering if there is a taxi in SLC with vanity plates saying 'strawman'

These tactics certainly distract from ANY credibility on the subject. Like many apologists for the AA faith, ones seniority date is unfortunately given credibility- something that should not- since you promote that you are in arrest, controlled, or in remission of a concocted nonexistant 'disease'

Somehow if you think by diverting attention to anything other than the subject at hand, over and over ad naseum, that somehow you feel you are in ANY way either winning this argument or making the AA faith look in ANY way credible- then I say it is you sir- that is in 'denial'

You are simply stuttering over charges and questions you cannot honestly answer.

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Posted by: subway jerod ( )
Date: May 27, 2011 02:48PM

Check out

There are reviews of rehabs on a state by state basis

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Posted by: toolazytoregister ( )
Date: May 28, 2011 11:13PM

A few years ago I had a teenage nephew go through rehab in Utah. I was his geographically closest relative and tried to be there on all the family nights. Technically the program was secular. However, it was a terrible experience for both of us primarily because neither of us are LDS and the whole program felt like scout camp/girl's camp/EFY with drug tests. Since I wasn't his legal guardian, I had no power to take him out and find a different program. What really made me mad is that, since I am not a teetotaler, I was not deemed sober by their standards and therefore was not given permission to take him to my home for Christmas or his birthday. Poor kid had to spend it there, and I only got to see him for 90 minutes. After he got out he ran away from home and we haven't heard from him since. So yeah, the program worked great!

For the life of me I can't remember the name of the place right now, but it's somewhere just north of Salt Lake City, off Bangerter Hwy. If I think of the name, I'll post it later. AVOID IT!

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