The other BYU thread reminded me of something. Awhile back I was looking at costs of university tuition. BYU is among the most affordable in the country. For example, a state collage in Washington state is about twice as much. Tuition in general, across the board, has gone up 1120% since 1978. Kids are starting out life indentured which is problematic on a variety of levels a lot of people do not fully want to appreciate.

We know why BYU tuition is cheap, it's costs are supplemented by tithing money. I have many problems with the Mormon church, but this is not one. As an institution they are "paying it forward" so they can have educated and earning members not heavily saddled with student loan debt. Of course this results in more money cycled into the church coffers later. This actually is good thinking.

As a society this idea seems to be lost in practice in recent decades. Thinking ahead, and real human investment seems to have been generally replaced by short term gains or institutionalized greed.

What do you guys think?

Bernie and I agree with your point.

But as a Canadian, I don't like having most/all Canadian tithing going to BYU. Supposedly that's the only way to get Canadian contributions into the U.S.

I don't care if BYU was free. The "costs" to your soul, mind and thinking will cripple you forever.

Only if you drink the Kool Aid.

You can drink beer and still appear to be a kool aid drinker at BYU....I did it.

After all, its about appearances isn't? :)

And I agree with the OP....I was going to go to University of Washington, but I opted for BYU because it was so much more affordable....both tuition and cost of living.

IMO, BYU doesn't primarily exist to provide quality cost-effective university education, but rather as a tool for enculturating and promoting Mormon society and leadership. In other words, education is a secondary byproduct of a BYU experience. If BYU ceased to exist, talented, impressionable, and idealistic young Latter-day Saints would be secularized away from the Morg, and the church would lose a valuable bully pulpit.

Universities with Mormon Studies Departments take critical historical views, not faith-promoting ones. BYU immerses impressionable young folks into the church, separates them into leadership or other roles, and maintains a steadfast orthodox view of all things Mormon. This is probably why during the Great Depression, the Morg held on to the Y, despite great financial stress.

BYU's existence is brilliant in terms of maintaining and promoting TBM membership and leadership for the cult. The Boner.

I agree with you in terms of the sociological function in propagating the church forward. It defiantly plays a huge part, although probably dwindling somewhat because of information found on the internet.

I completely agree on your take about religion classes at BYU. The best religion class I took was on world religions. The professor took a very academic approach examining various faith systems. Very little "Kool-Aid" applied. The rest of the classes sucked; taught by glorified EFY councilors who happen to be tenured.

I had a New Testament prof who was very careful with his views. He had a religious studies degree from a prestigious Eastern university. His class included many readings from liberal to conservative NT scholars (in addition to some Mormon books). He made us define interpretations and then defend them--hardly orthodox BYU religious education.

The worst prof I had was Cleon Skoussen--a real turd, for Old Testament. When he wasn't promoting his books, he was instructing us on communist activities in the Federal Government and encouraging participation in the Freeman Institute.

I'm reading his book right now the naked communist. And am learning quite a lot about Marx and Engles, and the push towards communism. They were very self absorbed and had an idea of a powerful government coming to take over and force everyone into a collective mind. Religion would be done away with, classes would be done away with, property rights would be done away with, and eventually laws would be done away with.

We were all suppose to love each other so much that everyone would work for free. It's a nice dream but I don't see it happening. At this point I'm thinking Skousen knew what he was talking about. But I'll keep reading and see.

poopstone Wrote:
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> I'm reading his book right now the naked
> communist. And am learning quite a lot about Marx
> and Engles...

I would gently suggest that if you want to learn about Marx and Engels, you should read Marx and Engels. Not Skousen.

Some of the conclusions Skousen reaches about them are accurate. Most are not. That's simply because Skousen had no interest in truth or facts, the purpose of his book was to incite fear of "commies" in Americans, and grossly distorting facts to reach that goal was his modus operandi.

gentle +1

I think you pretty much have it right.
Except that if you're not a church member, BYU isn't so affordable anymore.
The thing is, though, that very often the only non-members who want to attend are athletes who have been recruited by Y coaches...and they very often get full scholarships.

Does anyone actually know a non-member who attended NOT on a scholarship, and paid the non-member price? I've never met one...

I knew a guy from India. He was on some sort of scholarship, but it wasn't athletic if I remember right. He was receiving a scholarship somehow from home. He was a really cool guy.

That's why you convert to Mormonism before applying. If you don't get in, quit Mormonism.

I'm always amazed at how often comments posted here boil down to "lie to get an advantage". Mormons often have a casual attitude toward integrity, especially if money is involved. That was why it was noteworthy when the Air Force officer appointed to direct the BYU ROTC program made the news because he refused to sign the BYU Honor Code because he had no intention of giving up coffee at home, though he was fine with not drinking it on campus

Mormons would just lie about that. They are trained to lie every time they are asked about masturbation (among other things Mormons routinely lie about). Sad that actually taking a stand for integrity is considered "news".

Bish: "Are you honest with your fellow men?"

Mo: "Yes. I'm just not honest with myself."

Follow Joseph the consummate liar? Maybe the Primary songs could stand a rewrite.

Bish: "Are you honest with your fellow men?"

Me: "Yes. I'm just as honest as joe smith."

In addition to the inculcation, it helps steer LDS youth towards each other and into marriage, another plus for the organization.

Checking a few sites, the ratios are 44-47% female, 53-56% male, with about 33% of men married, and 17% women married. What I could not find gender ratios BY CLASS YEAR. My guess is the number of females drops each year as they get married and drop out, but who knows for sure? I'd love to see valid data.

I was two years out of high school (working downtown Los Angeles), when a good girl friend of mine told me she registered to go to BYU. The best part was, she said, that "they enrolled anyone" (no scholastic honors were necessary).

This news was critical to me, as I had not been a good scholar in all my life to the 12th grade (at which time I did graduate--but only after I stayed after school with about 10 other students to take a "minimum" math class).

The academic requirements, and the fees were little enough for me to manage.

As I had been forced, at the place were I worked, to buy (American) "war" bonds (this was after WW two), I was able to cash these bonds, one at a time, to pay my tuition (and therefore, didn't have to have a job while I was there--about two years).

Happily, the bonds ended about the time I stopped going to BYU, to marry a boyfriend in Los Angeles.

I don't know what it cost my dad to send me to Ricks in 1966. It was a waste of his money.

I didn't know Washington has a state collage. Is it an art school?

You might be comparing apples to crickets. YBU is subsidized, yes, but greed and gains and human investment and thinking ahead is speculation, no? The fact is, indentured kids is not good but it's not like BYU is a hero because it offers "cheap" tuition to complement it's degrading moral stupidity.

Bad school Wrote:
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> I didn't know Washington has a state collage. Is
> it an art school?

You've never heard of Washington State?
In Pullman?

https://wsu.edu/

(I installed/configured their "all-campus network" computer system years ago...)

I listen to KBYU-FM (streaming and phone app) a fair bit, as it's a decent classical music station. Of course, I move to another station when LDS programming come on, except for occasional liturgical music. Odd that they broadcast the very liberal BBC news.

Since it's run by BYU, which is supported by TSCC, I was amused that they have fund raising weeks, just like NPR! "We can't provide this quality programming unless we guilt you out of your money. Why, for the cost of just ONE latte a day..."

...maybe I didn't hear that quite right!

No, it is definitely collage, a technique of an art production, primarily used in the visual arts, where the artwork is made from an assemblage of different forms. And at BYU it's really quite reasonable.

Well, BYU has it right in terms of keeping young Mormons from being exposed to the true spectrum of life. And in terms of keeping young Mormons from wandering off into other religions or into (gasp!) no religion at all.

But the lovely low cost, for Mormons, only means that the parents and the students pay off the difference in tithing. If they saved all of those tithing dollars, they'd be able to pay for a very good education at real colleges.

Just as nonMormons would be able to do if they saved 10% of their gross income for the kiddies' college funds.

The Mormon stroke of genius is in getting all of those dollars funneled into the Mormon church's own private school and, at the same time, helping to ensure that average families will not be able to afford to send their children to some other college.

If you go to BYU Secrets on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ByuSecrets/ and scroll down to #538 on December 12, 2014, someone got baptized after coming to BYU just for the cheaper tuition. And above that, there has been sexual activity in dorms, as well.

BYU is probably a more worthwhile expenditure for the LDS Church than other things they spend on (temples, advertising, malls, etc) but I know the intentions aren't right. If they didn't have a church school, the young Mormons would go to a non-Mormon school and risk exiting the church.

The church-owned schools are meant to indoctrinate and keep the young Mormons in check.

Not all LDS kids get to go to a Y. How is the church helping them?

see how that compares.
Know someone who sent their daughter to byu (to get an Mrs degree) and they complained that they were paying 10% tithing, plus tuition room and board (lived in dorms) all to TSCC.

I see Gonzaga's tuition is $37K per year. Better value doncha think?