Just for the record, we're nevermo-but I'm sure this transcends religions.
My parents are in their early eighties. My mother is aging gracefully--my dad not so much. Much as I love him, my dad could never have been described as a 'kindly soul', but over the last couple of years, he has been becoming nastier and nastier. I think a great part of this is that he resents growing old, and not being able to be in charge of everything the way he used to be. He is forever losing things and accusing my mother or I of having taken them--not just direct accusations but all kinds of mutterings when he is looking for something (I think he thinks he is speaking under his breath and w can't hear him). Everything from about how he is going to have us arrested to how he s going to leave this house and never come back. Funny in a sad way, because he could never possibly look after himself.He sleeps and eats on his own weird schedule, turning his nose up at a nice meal my mother made, only to later demand short order service (He also stuffs himself with crackers, cheese and cookies on a continual basis).

Anyway, what I need are suggestions or advice (not legally binding of course) about what kind of (involuntary) care I can seek for him, and legal help for my mother if push comes to shove. They live at home, and I live with them (have done since a debilitating car accident 20+ years ago. My mother would do just fine in a Senior care home, she makes friends easily, does Red Hat Society, and is willing to go along to get along. My dad, on the other hand, I believe would be the sort of person nursing homes dread, and I also know that he would be absolutely miserable there. I've been able to keep the house up, with what help my mother can provide, but my moving out would not be the answer. My mother is already bearing the brunt of his tantrums, and doing all the cooking and housework is way beyond her.
I's sorry, I'm not even sure where I'm going with this screed anymore, but if any of you have been in a similar situation, I would be obliged if you tell me how you handled your situation. my email is up top if you prefer not to post on the board.

As they say in Mormonese--"Bless yore hearts and I sure appreciate ya".

If someone in the household is disabled, you may be able to get in-home help with certain chores and services. That could take some of the load off of you and your mother, which might make it easier to deal with your father's demands.

I saw a TED talk once which intrigued me --- its main idea was that as people become more affected by dementia, their fundamental personalities become more and more their only personalities. So a truly sweet person ends up being nothing but sweet. And a truly rude person ends up being nothing but rude.

I don't know of any special living situations for people who are rude, demanding, and thoughtless. But most dementia-care facilities, sadly, have to deal with that fairly frequently. You might talk with some of the senior staff at a few of those. They could have some helpful suggestions.

One of my relatives was a real tyrant in the privacy of her own home. But, outside of the home, she was able to fool people into thinking that she was very nice. Once she got to a certain point in her dementia, she was a real terror all the time, everywhere. All of the fake sweetness was stripped away. She got into fights (I mean real physical fights) all too frequently, and was the bane of every place that her family tried to place her. Eventually, she ended up in one of those care facilities from which no-one emerges alive, and they were actually pretty good at dealing with her, until she was too disabled to act out any longer. Then, it became pretty easy.

Although there is often some truth in nasty personality traits becoming the only personality and nice people becoming only empty nice people when they suffer dementia, it's an oversimplification.

There are several forms of dementia besides Alzheimer's disease, there is dementia associated with vascular changes in the brain, dementia associated with Parkinson's Disease and Frontotemporal Dementia.

The kinds of symptoms that are seen in dementia are dependent on the brain region in which neurons or neural connections are being destroyed - not on innate personality traits.

For example one form of frontotemporal lobal dementia severely effects behavior as regions of the brain that affect empathy and judgement are destroyed causing very nasty personality issues.

These effects are caused by disease not by a bad personality, treat people with dementia with respect and kindness, there is a good chance that if your father has these symptoms, you will be in the same condition late in life.

I knew someone who, at a certain point in his adult life, and quite uncharacteristically, began acting very much as you describe, and the early indicators of "something" going on became more and more serious.

This was during the time when medical science was in the early stages of conceptualizing these different behaviors as part of what we now understand as Alzheimer's.

If I were in your position, I would call your father's doctor, explain what is happening, and ask if an evaluation for Alzheimer's might be in order.

There are possibly other things that might result in the same behaviors (a brain tumor as one example, and there are other possibilities as well), but I think that Alzheimer's should be one of the things that is initially ruled out if it is not, in fact, the actual cause.

I am sorry. I lived this (and the very long aftermath) for a number of years, and I deeply understand the problems and the potentials that I am suggesting might be the underlying problem.

:(

I cared for an Alzheimer's patient during a college semester, on the weekends. She was 84 then. Her sons hired me to look after her. She drove her hired help away with her tantrums so they had a hard time finding people to care for her on a consistent basis.

She would accuse her help of hiding things from her. Pull the plug on the phone if she caught one of us on it during our shift if she overheard us talking to someone. She was very paranoid. Her sons told me that was symptomatic of Alzheimer's.

After that semester she went into a nursing home as I recall, and passed away soon after. She was a difficult person to care for to say the least. Don't think I could've done it 24/7.

She wasn't a good fit for the nursing home either. Her sons weren't able to care for her so she could continue to live on her own. It just got to the point they could no longer manage her care.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2017 08:46PM by Amyjo.

I agree with the advice to get dad in for a medical checkup, and to ask the physician about your dad's options. Your town, city, or county should also have a Department of Aging, and the people there may be able to connect you with resources.

Be sure to research the cost of care while you are at it, just so that you are informed.

You also want to start getting your ducks in a row with regard to legal matters. You may want to look into getting a power of attorney and a medical power of attorney for your parents in case they are ever incapacitated. As my mother grew older, with her permission my brother and I put our names on her bank accounts. That enabled me to continue paying bills on her behalf when she was no longer able to do so. My brother had a POA and a MPOA for her.

It is my hope that you do not live in a rural area; services are scant to non-existent to help you if there is an Alzheimer's diagnosis.

I'm going to start a search for an attorney who deals with the elderly and their situations. I would love to talk to his doctor, but because of the HIPAA act, he cannot discuss my dad's case with me, or even my mother. I do know that Pennsylvania is a community property state, so hopefully my mother can at least gain access to the financial side (right now, all we know is he has an accountant named "Darrin"-no last name-no address), but the medical side is still a worry. Just keep sending those thoughts and good vibes--I need all I can get!

I was able to discuss a reasonable amount of information about my mom with her physicians even after HIPAA passed. It may be that she signed off on that.

I think going to an attorney who specialized in elder-care issues is a great idea.

HIPAA doesn't prevent you from telling Dad's doctor what you're seeing and experiencing regarding his behavior. The Dr. can just listen to you, without discussing or giving you medical information about your Dad. That gives the Dr. more information about his/her patient, which (hopefully) will help lead to a better and more effective care regimen.

A talk/consultation with an attorney (who is knowledgeable in this area) is a great idea.

Your mother is highly functional, and should join you in seeing the attorney. Does she want POA and a medical POA, with you as a secondary to those?

That's what my folks did. I was secondary to each parent's POAs and medical POAs on the other, and when it came time to withdraw life-prolonging treatments on my father, my mom asked (told) me to make the decision to sign, because she didn't want to.

The language used was, "...If [mom/dad] becomes unwilling or unable to perform..."

At the time the documents were executed, dad and mom each signed of his or her own volition. It would be good to get these documents in order for her while your mom is healthy.

It is somewhat of a concern that your mom knows little or nothing of her own finances/security, with your dad becoming paranoid about her. An LDS accountant could persuade your dad into all sorts of financial abuse.

You need to act ASAP to protect your family. Make sure to see a non-LDS attorney.

You may also need to journal and document your dad's behavior. When put on the spot in court, it's not uncommon to become emotional, and/or unable to recall specific details.

Hervey nor his family are LDS. (per his OP) He's a never MO.

Good advice otherwise. There are lots of financial advisors who would abuse their clients, if they could.

Irrespective of what "religion" they ascribe to.

His dad becoming cranky may not mean anything other than he's getting old. He may just be feeling his age. Does that mean he's no longer competent?

Quite possibly he's still highly capable of looking after himself and his wife. On the other hand, Henry becoming his or their POA is something that may be appropriate to bring up w/both his parents. No need to go behind his father's back especially if his father is lucid and of sound mind.

I'm sorry you're going through this problem.

My father was always verbally and sometimes physically abusive and it got worse after a couple of strokes as he aged. The care center finally had to send him home and it was very hard my mother for a few weeks. He did finally die of a massive stroke which ended his nightmare.

I hope the doctors find better ways to help him than for my dad. Hopefully with the right diagnosis and medication, he can do well.

Your parents are lucky to have a nice son like you.

So sorry you are going through this Hervey...

My dad is exhibiting he same kinds of behaviors and is in the same age range as your dad. He was an executive for a Fortune 500 company and he's used to "managing." Now, in retirement, forced last year by his encroaching memory loss, he only has my mom to boss around (about important things like how to load the dishwasher properly). ha!

Start with the primary physician and take your mom. The poster who said you can GIVE information to the doc, and he can listen without violating HIPAA laws, is correct. You can also put your concerns in writing for the doctor to review in advance. That way you don't have to discuss health concerns in front of you dad. And concise, accurate information will be entered into your father's medical record that can be used for future reference, providing a baseline of initial symptoms and behaviors.

What you are looking for from the physician is a referral to a psychologist or aging specialist who can perform a memory test to document your father's level of functioning. Once an official diagnosis is made, then you have the tool you need to access all the other services, treatment, or living arrangements everyone has been suggesting.

And, of course, I *GET* how difficult it will be for you to actually persuade a defiant, paranoid, old man to actually cooperate with some kind of a memory evaluation, Hervey!!!! lol! But that's where you'll need to start and your attorney will probably tell you that, too.

I worked in home health care nursing for a while and SOME of my patients were just plain ornery - with traditional personality traits becoming exaggerated as their dementia worsened. I worked as a rotating live-in nurse with one old German lady and....I gotta tell you....I slept with one eye open around there. I was always secretly afraid she had been an active Nazi in her previous life and she might, y'know, revert back to old behaviors at any moment....especially since she hated me because I could never put her silverware away in the right place. ha!

Good luck Herv....I feel your frustration.

Shannon ;o)

One of my old boyfriends got dementia in the past several years. Last I heard he was resigned to living out the rest of his days at a nursing home in Los Angeles.

He tried to run away to come live with me because I once told him he was welcome to visit. He lived in San Francisco for decades.

So he latched onto that idea and got some cockamamie idea that visiting me in upstate New York meant moving in. Once he realized that he wasn't welcome to be a permanent resident I haven't heard from him since.

I believe he's passed away by now. He wanted to escape the nursing home by running away. He got to the point where he was no longer able to care for himself. He needed around the clock care.

His father was the creator of the Living Will. His dad lived well into his 80's. His mother into her 90's. He didn't get past his 70's. Too much dope smoking. He was a former pothead, and it caught up to him finally. He used to be brilliant. Dementia strips people of any dignity.

Your state likely has a agency that addresses Elder Care, maybe even an ombudsmen, people who go to homes and help people figure out what they need, often programs that can supplement family care with aides to help with various things. All you'll need to do is to identify where in government that is done, and make an appointment.

Your community may have elder day care, where people can be actively engaged, and also supervised.

If you have siblings, it would be important that you all talk together about this, and with both parents, if your mother agrees you should include your dad.

Yes your dad's dr needs to know what you know.

The type of attorney would be someone doing geriatric work, or maybe a wills and trust attorney. But the health care power of attorney may well already be in place. And your dad may outlive your mother.