I know there are quite a number of gays on this forum and I am just looking for some first hand knowledge.

I was talking with a young man and he is struggling with being gay and a Mormon. I know his Uncle (dad's brother) is also gay.

My son has a college friend who is a flaming queen and he has mentioned he has family members that are gay.

I know of a couple of other LDS families with gay children and I believe they have relatives that are also gay.

Is being gay just a random thing or could it be genetic?

This LDS rule about children of gays cannot be members seems to hurt the grandparents the most. Their children are treated bad and so are the grandkids.

Is being gay - random, genetic or something else?

What I know from personal experience is that it is not a choice and as such it should not matter the cause.

No other members of my family are gay, though my father had same sex encounters while stationed on a remote Pacific island during WWII, but I think that was more situational than anything else.

When it comes to genetics, current studies are building evidence that there is a genetic component.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26572-largest-study-of-gay-brothers-homes-in-on-gay-genes/

does it matter? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I know from personal experience is that it is
> not a choice and as such it should not matter the
> cause.
>
> No other members of my family are gay, though my
> father had same sex encounters while stationed on
> a remote Pacific island during WWII, but I think
> that was more situational than anything else.
>
> When it comes to genetics, current studies are
> building evidence that there is a genetic
> component.
>
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26572-large
> st-study-of-gay-brothers-homes-in-on-gay-genes/

There may be a genetic factor, but the latest peer-reviewed research on the topic casts serious doubt on the "born that way" idea:

"● The understanding of sexual orientation as an innate, biologically fixed property of human beings — the idea that people are “born that way” — is not supported by scientific evidence.

● While there is evidence that biological factors such as genes and hormones are associated with sexual behaviors and attractions, there are no compelling causal biological explanations for human sexual orientation. While minor differences in the brain structures and brain activity between homosexual and heterosexual individuals have been identified by researchers, such neurobiological findings do not demonstrate whether these differences are innate or are the result of environmental and psychological factors.

● Longitudinal studies of adolescents suggest that sexual orientation may be quite fluid over the life course for some people, with one study estimating that as many as 80% of male adolescents who report same-sex attractions no longer do so as adults (although the extent to which this figure reflects actual changes in same-sex attractions and not just artifacts of the survey process has been contested by some researchers).

● Compared to heterosexuals, non-heterosexuals are about two to three times as likely to have experienced childhood sexual abuse."

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/number-50-fall-2016

I'm having trouble finding anything that indicates the article was peer reviewed, it is not even in a journal that I understand as a peer reviewed journal.

I do not see where the conclusions raised by this article have been peer reviewed.

Never mind the huge number of logical fallacies in the article, the New Atlantis is not a scientific journal of peer reviewed articles, it is a journal published by a conservative advocacy group. The article is advocacy, not peer reviewed science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Atlantis_(journal)

Thanks for checking that out. The way the article is worded smacks of a biased agenda--subtly, but it's there.

I didn't think it was very subtle at all...:(

I found this with a quick Google search using "Identical Twin Studies Gay" as my search parameters…

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-genetic-homosexuality-nature-nurture-20151007-story.html

>One longtime researcher in the field of sexual orientation praised Ngun’s use of identical twins as a means of teasing apart the various biological factors that influence the trait.

>“Our best guess is that there are genes” that affect a man’s sexual orientation “because that’s what twin studies suggest,” said Northwestern University psychologist J. Michael Bailey, who has explored a range of physiological markers that point to homosexuality’s origins in the womb. But the existence of identical twin pairs in which only one is homosexual “conclusively suggest that genes don’t explain everything,” Bailey added.

>While Ngun’s research needs to be replicated in larger studies of twins, it advances the fitful process of better understanding how — and when — a boy’s sexual orientation develops, Bailey said.

This one hasn't been peer-reviewed yet; I'll leave it to others (TLC where are you?) to continue the dialogue. Naturally I encountered a lot of histrionic crap from suspect sources, but here's a summary of the research so far.

http://www.newschool.edu/wpi/globalrights/sexorient/twins.html

I also agree. If one is skilled at spotting logical fallacies, it is obvious that the authors are being lest than intellectually honest.

So what?

I'm gay because I stepped on a crack in the sidewalk during a full moon?

I'm gay because someone wrapped me in a blanket from left to right instead of right to left?

I'm gay because my mother nursed me with her right breast first while the cat watched?


The religious right and other bigots are desperate to prove we weren't born this way. That sexuality is not innate. Otherwise they have no excuse for torturing their children at Conversion Therapy Camps and no way to justify their mean and hurtful actions. Evergreen anyone? How about a nice round of Electro Shock Therapy courtesy of Dallin Oaks? They need it to be anything but, "Born this way." They desperately need it to be anything else in order to never have to apologize for the way they have treated us. And also to appear perfect to their equally bigoted and shallow peers.

As an old gay guy, I have known so many hundreds of gay people in my life and never met one didn't know they were born that way. No one I ever met "chose" it. Nobody was gay because their mother was overbearing and their father was weak as the old cliche goes. Don't make me laugh.

Later in life, my aunts and one uncle told me that they were very worried about me when I was young because they knew I was gay even as a five year old. I knew by the time I was seven. I didn't make much of it until I was about eleven and started to realize what the world and Mormon church thought of it. I was terrified. My uncles and aunts were worried because we were the extreme TBM family and although they were Mormon, they were more realistic about those things and they cared about me. I was okay because I knew to never admit no matter what.

I was born gay. It happens more in some families than others but it can happen to any set of parents to have a gay child. No one chooses the particular set of genes from the millions that could go into an egg and a sperm--yet.

And, RFM is proof that any Mormon can shed the bigotry right along with shedding the lies. I love all the RFMers. Although I can be ornery and it doesn't always show. (I wasn't born ornery-- I let that happen sometimes.)

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And, RFM is proof that any Mormon can shed the
> bigotry right along with shedding the lies. I love
> all the RFMers.


Right back at 'ya, D&D :)

My attitude is that I don't *care* what the "cause" is, even if it's 100% completely a "choice" -- treat all human beings equally and kindly.

The evidence, however, doesn't support "it's a choice." And whatever the "cause" (more likely "causes") is, I think we should pursue knowing more about ourselves.

Hey, there is evidence to support orneriness is an inborn trait. I should know, I'm around 91% ornery. ;)

In the end, though, it doesn't matter if it's a nature, nurture, or a combination of both (I'm more inclined to nature due both to my academic studies and interaction and identification with the LGBTQ+ crowd. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms or who they happen to love shouldn't be a factor in their treatment as human beings. The only thing that should be a factor is if you happen to be an prolific assbadger, straight, gay, pan, whatever.

I knew I was attracted to the same sex at a very young age even though I did not know what the word "gay" meant. Most gay people will tell you the same thing. There is no question in my mind that it is genetic (and unchangeable). My parents had 6 kids and 2 are gay. We were raised identical so why would 2 be gay and the others not? I had great parents and nothing traumatic happened to me as a kid.

And a word of advice. You might get more people responding if you don't use phrases like "flaming queen".

There is youtube evidence that biological twins are more likely to be gay together, over one that is not and one that is. Other than that I have no knowledge. But think of large successful Mormon families like the Ballards. There are 10 children and 29 grandchildren. Everyone of them is married successfully, no interracial marriage, lots of great grand kids. No one is gay apparently?

Brigham young had 54 kids and no gays either. In fact there weren't many gays in the 19th century.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2017 09:10AM by poopstone.

"No gays."

lol!! <wipes tears>

There have ALWAYS been gays! It would probably be more accurate if you had written "no gays out of the closet."

;o)

https://bycommonconsent.com/2006/08/02/eugenics/

The ancient Spartans acted upon this policy, and the happy result was the production of a nation of the noblest men and women the world ever saw. No diseased and effeminate person was permitted to marry and curse the world with a tainted offspring. The children of the entire republic belonged to the Government, which appointed competent persons to superintend their physical and mental training, and when the fit time arrived they married them as they saw fit, keeping constantly in view the improvement of the race. …A mal-formed man will have a mal-formed mind. A well developed intellectual brain will produce a philosophic min--George Q. Cannon

http://www.towleroad.com/2012/08/here-is-a-photo-of-mormon-leader-brigham-youngs-son-in-drag/

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1421938

Matthew 19:12--Jesus said, "12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Poopstone with another hilariously ignorant swing-and-a-miss.

Homosexuality has always existed, not just amongst humans, but documented homosexual activity amongst other animals including primates. With the advent of greater levels of tolerance for homosexual behavior and activity, it is much more common for people to be out of the closet, so to speak. how you were not able to connect these dots Is beyond me, I can only surmise that you have the IQ of some kind of fish.

And your little comment about interracial marriages- that's a big deal to you now? So in addition to homophobe, conspiracy theorist, and misogynist, we can now add a racist to your repertoire. how does it feel to know that you, as a person represent ideals that make up many of the things that are the most wrong with this world?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2017 10:08AM by midwestanon.

Why would you insult fish like that? What have they ever done to you? :)

I like to think of poopstone as a character from SNL. The posts seem to work when you do that.

I don't know if Brigham Young had any gay children, but wasn't one of them a cross-dresser? (not sure if that is the right term)

Here you go...

http://www.towleroad.com/2012/08/here-is-a-photo-of-mormon-leader-brigham-youngs-son-in-drag/

I think it's kind of cool that he had the self-confidence to cross dress in public.

Do you ever fact check your mouth?

What is "youtube evidence"?

Just because all his kids are married means absolutely nothing. I know plenty of gays who are married to women who are STILL married to women. Some cheat, some don't.

Does it run in families? My ex comes from a family of 6, 3 of whom are gay/lesbian. Their neighbors had 3 children and 2 are gay/lesbian. I assume if I had had more than 2 children, I would have had a gay child.

In my mother's family there is 1 identifiable gay child of 20 grandchildren. I'm fairly certain there is only 1. He just got married to a woman for the second time last summer. My sister said, "You can't be gay in that family." No, he can't be. That family is disgustingly mormon.

My dad's side, there is 1 lesbian of 19 grandchildren. She has been in a long-term relationship and is very happy.

And like someone else said, it doesn't matter why they are gay. It really JUST IS. I hope there is a day that gays can live no different than straights. They've come a long way, but there is still a long ways to go.

As far as RELIABLE studies show; Identical twins are showing that if they are truly identical and one is gay, the other is gay too. But in "mirror" identical twins (one is right handed, one is left handed) one may be gay and the other is straight, example Max and Charlie Carver.

They are also finding that birth order matters. In large families, if the first two siblings are straight, you are more likely to get a gay child in the third. This is especially true for men. The third son of a couple is more likely to be gay; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation

So there has to be some sort of brain chemistry or organization or hormonal reason they just haven't found it yet. Also the LGBTQ community isn't sure if they want a reason to be found; that it is just nature/natural (possibly to limit population growth?)--The fear is that the medical and religions will try to find a "cure" or test that may drive couples to terminate pregnancy so as not to have an "abnormal" child.

You will never know who *all* the homosexuals were in your family. Homosexuality has been so stigmatized by Western society for so long, Many (including myself) became so adept from childhood at hiding our "abomination" that you will never know, and for the most side any hint of homosexuality has been expunged from family records. The only practical way to tell if someone is gay is to for them to feel comfortable in confiding in you, without fear of judgement or negative consequences. It all depends on the individual.

Every parent is carrying a gene pool inside of them with enough possible combinations to ensure that no two offspring are exactly the same. This is enough combinations to populate an entire universe and still have a couple billion left over. This gene pool gifted from millions of ancestors includes everything from the shape of the little toe to whatever ends up at the back of the cerebellum. I do believe this is why evolution leaves us able to learn and grow.

Myself, I wonder if ignorance and bigotry run in families. Are there genetic dispositions? Or, is it environmental? Maybe that is a better study.

I hope one day the world sees our contribution as gay people--the way many are seeing it now. The whole of this gay legacy is substantial and beautiful. Maybe then so many of the fearful won't keep looking for a way to ensure that their kids aren't gay because they are terrified it would reflect on them. That is what hurt the most for me.

To answer your question. I know two families that each have 3 gay kids. I draw no conclusions from that.

One of the reasons it is hard to get a good understanding of who may or may not be different is because it doesn't really matter. It's not as if I walk around all day telling everyone that I really love vag. My personal life and choices hold some hint as to what my preference is but I can atest to that being somewhat superficial.

I guess the question I would ask is, who cares?

Im gay but am the only gay in my family. However, my boyfriend's older brother is also gay. My boyfriend also has an aunt who recently married her longtime female partner. I conjecture that there could be multiple factors in sexuality. Perhaps the genome is one factor. But I'd also suggest that there are gay people whose genes are not a big factor.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2017 02:51PM by nonsequiter.

two gay sons out of five children... same parents... same school system... oftentimes same teacher... same church unit... oftentimes with the same leaders and teachers... looking back you can see the traits very early on... definitely genetic...

Most gay men have older siblings but there isn't any known reason yet. There are a lot of studies looking at the phenomenon now.

Strange that having a large family can result in more gay men, so institutions who demonize homosexuality also could be creating more by promoting large families.

I recently heard of this phenomenon on an episode of Mormon Stories. I had never heard of this before and did some quick research. It seems to be the case. From what I understand, the more older brothers a boy has, the more likely he is to be gay. The third son of the same womb has a high likelihood of being gay. Each subsequent son born of the same womb has an even higher likelihood of being gay. From what I read, a girl's birth order does not seem to affect sexual orientation, however.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2017 05:06PM by want2bx.

From what I've seen in my dad's family, homosexuality seems to run in the family as I've got a cousin and 2 uncles who are gay. My grandparents only had 6 boys, and it's the 4th and last ones who were gay. My cousin is an only child, so that could suggest genetic tendencies as well. The younger of the gay uncles basically committed suicide because my grandparents were devout Catholics, and he couldn't be his true self around them.

What I find fascinating is the general inability to deal with different genders in a reasonable, rational, non judgemental manner, especially, in this day and age.

No matter how hard we try, there seems to be an element in humans that resists the acceptance of people who are different than they are. Add religious teachings that put some kind of deity overlay and we have complete dislike and distrust of differences. Not only is the difference unacceptable, there is some kind of drive that must destroy those human beings.

Universal teaching such as: love one another, except when......~!

My husbands family seems to have a thread running through his family.

His great grandfather, grand father, 3 cousins, and his brother.

Out of him and his siblings, there's only one child. That child has claimed to be gay when he was a preteen. He's now very mormon, and his wife tells everyone he's 'metrosexual'.

I guess only the future will tell. So far, he has 6 kids. They're very young. It will be interesting to see what goes down in the future. His wife also has several gay people in her family line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2017 11:21PM by janis.

it's very random. I believe it is how much hormones the fetus absorbs during gestation to protect the mother. too much hormone or not enough hormone. to be born straight, a fetus has to absorb just the right amount of hormones, any other variation will affect it.

In my experience it is. I have two siblings that are gay. A transgender friend of mine also has a sister who is gay