I've been trying this alternative therapy for my neck pain so I don't have to see another doctor for this pain issue again but it's not working that great as far as decreasing the pain so I don't know if I'm being led along here like in Mormonism just keep going and you'll make the temple or get pain relief type of thing. I talked about it in another thread it's called Myofascial release and I've done it 3 times so far and it definitely affects the body but pain decrease it does nothing it might even make things worse. HAS ANYBODY DONE THIS THERAPY MORE THAN THREE TIMES I REALLY NEED YOUR INSIGHT BEFORE I THROW MORE MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN. It would be much appreciated cause I don't know if I'm in a straight up con right now JS style.

I think you need to find a friend, or use your thumbs, to "rip and tear" and work the points in your neck, then a healthy couple of pops (never force it!) when you let your head drop easily or roll to one side then the other. It sounds like that's what you're paying for.

But just my opinion; it's what usually works for me.

If it's not working, stop it.

It's just a massage. It's not a cure-all, or magical, or any more 'special' than any other massage.

No, myofascial release is not "just a massage." It's a specific modality that may or may not help badassadam's particular pain issue.

Try chiropractic care in combination with trigger point and hot stone massage. Trigger point uses concentrated. specifically applied pressure to release contracted or spasming muscles and fascia, while hot stone uses heat and mild pressure to make the fascia soft and pliable so that trigger point is more effective. Well-trained LMTs will have learned protocols for neck pain, too.

Never tried the hot stones but I'm pretty sure normal massage won't work on this that's why Myofascial release made sense it doesn't feel like a normal type of pain it's almost nerve like and band like stretchy.

Well it's a little different than a massage but it makes sense to me but it's just aggravating the painful areas more. She said sometimes it takes times to unravel everything before the pain goes away I don't know what to believe. I really don't know what else to try for this it's like a last ditch effort for most people with chronic pain that don't have an obvious cause.

I've done it for long periods of time to recover from sports injuries. But if it is not working for you and this injury, it's not working.

That's the bottom line, isn't it?

Well do I give it more time? You have actually done it longer than three times would you call it quits after three?

Given your last post, in which you said what your therapist said, my inclination would be to give it more time. Some of these injuries do take significant work.

But the decision is so very personal. If the situation is intolerable for you, change it. It could be that your insurance, your resources, your patience, stop you from giving the procedure much more time. That's totally reasonable, of course.

I do believe the part about my Myofascial system causing all my pain right now I just don't know if what she is doing will fix it and relieve the pain or not or if she's just tugging it like I would and making it worse like it feels right now.

I got approved by insurance for a series of sessions, like 2 a week for 6 weeks/ maybe 10 weeks or 10 hour and a half long sessions pulling scar tissue out after surgery 12 or 13. it worked I haven't been back.

it hurt deeply in muscles along sutures the day after but didn't pull on the attached muscles and up the body as I turned or twisted after that. So it released or broke up some scarring safely enough to move.

That's the physical therapy that included some facia or some tissue work after surgery scars healed.

it didn't feel great the day after. it didn't feel terrific like a neat massage during. it did provide mobility without pulls tugs, avoiding movements, changed posture because scars were released or muscles able to stretch or work together.

Still think the physical therapist is a genius.

So I don't know what you are projecting as your goal. my primary goal was to move, to be able to move publically and privately without lurching or limping and to twist side to side and be able to lift legs without body tugging and aching inside and along the sides, and to be able to stand up or lean my shoulders back without inner aching and tugging pinching pulling and all that... maybe still tugs and has pings of pain intermittently... and now I am not movement avoidant poised to avoid pain hesitating to move intead I continued the movements the physical therapist taught me, and continued tugging pulling across on the longest scar whenever everything gets stuck at one angle along it (regrows) one of my kids keloids my scars don't layer up but they keep regrowing.

So I would strongly advise learning the massage moves. learning and being instructed in any points to hold onto gently and what to lean your hands againt or if you are directed to massage in circles or long lines, or what direction, and what steps to take and what sequence....so you can know. you can know for yourself that you are gently massaging your muscles and gently releasing any muscle tension without damaging them daily.

So go and get instructions directions memorize and try it yourself while they watch and be corrected and taught and have them place your hands or fingers and show you the amount of pressure or firmness to hold or massage. Then try it again in front of them and get critiqued so you and informed and confidant.
Then try the motions and massage strategy the physical therapist taught you, alone without them coaching and guiding you, and then meet them again, and tell them what happened for feedback. then try again and be taught again.

leave them when you are confident you learned muscle maintenance and management and tension release relaxation strategies in your physical therapy. like 0-10 pain maynot be painfree, but surely it will manage to give you control and power to release this areas muscle stress during traffic jams or getting bad news so you have more power over your life.

My goal is just to release the pulling and the pressure that's causing intense pain and that's pretty much it.

can you get them to teach you to do the moves instead of just doing it for you- and tell you how often to do which movement?

Maybe, some of it seems difficult to do on myself but I do put pressure on painful areas with a ball at home as she says but I don't think its the same.

Ask yourself what did your physical therapist direct or teach you to do with the ball she massaged your neck pain with. does she direct you to roll the ball or hold and squish the ball or move it in circles? What motion did she suggest the ball would take?

Ask your physical therapist what forms size, weight, materials, textures the ball to massage your neck pain with can effectively take.
was it a hard little bouncy marble size ball or a squished sqoosh ball or slime soft plastic style or foam nerf ball?

what texture did it have was it covered in fur like a tennis ball or a teddy bear and soft or was it smooth?

can it be full of warmth or ice depending on the weather?

what shape fit rolls across or around your neck was it like a nerf football or rounded?

Can you adapt different texture and balls to your neck massage? Find out what she suggests.

There must be something you can get from this, some means of bringing yourself to a calmer comfort utilizing some skill your physical therapist shares using a ball along or across or near by your neck -you can control it when you roll it or whether you roll it or just hold it, still. like she was saying. Find out more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2017 05:41AM by paintinginthewin.

the practitioner passively moves your neck, knee, etc. and gets the part that isn't moving to move.

It seems so gentle and easy that you can't believe it is working. Then you have to go to bed for the rest of the day.

In the next 24 hours your body will adjust itself just like if you went to the chiropractor.

But does your body feel like hell while it's adjusting?

What I mean by adjusting is that, for me, as I lie in bed that night afterwards, there are a very large number of noises from my joints that are comparable to what would happen at the chiropractors. The result from me just turning in bed.

If you want to read up on Feldenkrais it is on the internet. It is primarily a neuro adjustment. The idea is that after an injury, the way you initiate movement is curtailed in scope. So Feldenkrais takes you back to when you had greater range of movement and shows your muscles, etc how to move.

It seems like an expensive "nothing" when it is being done, but you get really tired and the source of pain feels better the next day.

I love the group classes because the movements are so very hard to learn but not physically difficult, only mentally difficult. The often given example is:

Clasp your hands behind your head with fingers interlaced. Now interlace them the other way. You can't do it. Now bring your hands to where you can see them. While looking at them, it is easy to interlace your fingers the "other way." Once learned, you can do it behind your head when you can't see your fingers.

That way insurance covers it if a doctor authorizes PT.

Is feldenkrais different than Myofascial release?

but that is not the point of the treatment. Probably would be better for you to read up on it. In any case, it never hurts. Right away after an individual treatment I got greater range of movement.

I forgot to say, you need an RX from a doctor to see a PT in order that the treatment to be covered. (Assuming you can find a PT who is also a Feldenkrais practitioner.)

Many lessons for free on Youtube! Pick your problem area.

Over the last 15 years or so I have been to a number of practitioners, with names ranging from Body Somatic Practitioner, Reiki(sp?) practitioners and regular massage therapists. I was very spoiled as the first person I visited (the body somatic practitioner) performed myofascial release and other "energy" techniques, and his treatment was extremely effective for me and other family members. While the sessions were sometimes uncomfortable, I usually felt much better the same day after going home, relaxing and sometimes taking a short nap. In short, we were very satisfied with his services, but unfortunately he stopped practicing.

Since then, I have been to a number of different people. Some were decent, while others were not so much. Based on my experience, I believe it depends upon the talent and skill level of the practitioner more than anything else.

If you are not satisfied, I suggest you check around and try someone else.

She is the only person that does it in east idaho so it might be tough.

Hi Badassadam

A very good site to check for this sort of thing is sciencebasedmedecine.org

I found this:

Myofascial release

"Myofascial release is an umbrella term for several overlapping and allegedly advanced techniques and styles of manipulating muscles and fascia (sheets of connective tissue). The other word for all that is “massage.” The major common denominator for the various flavors of MFR is the much ballyhooed notion that fascia has clinically important properties. In fact, there is only a vague scientific rationale and inadequate evidence for any kind of myofascial release.

Wherever you see “myofascial release,” extraordinary claims of efficacy are likely to follow. For instance, the UK Advertising Standards Authority received a complaint in 2011 about claims from a company in the UK similar to Airrosti that offered “integrated myofascial therapy.” Their investigation determined that there was no robust evidence that MFR was an effective treatment for any of the conditions listed, and that the company was in violation of advertising codes. Similarly, the Aetna insurance company does not cover myofascial release and Kinesio Taping because it considers them experimental and investigational."


There's more here:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/can-airrosti-really-resolve-most-chronic-pain-in-just-three-visits/

(you have to scroll down a bit to get to the relevant section).

It looks like a scam to me (or a semi-scam - massage is nice ;-)

Tom in Paris



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2017 05:42AM by Soft Machine.

I've been through lots of good neck therapy by my chiropractor who has studied technics for reaching and releasing trigger points, etc. One thing I learned the best was: if you eat a lousy diet (sugar, starch, and bad fats, etc. that cause inflammation) your money and effort on therapy is wasted. Proper eating is just as important as the therapy.

I don't eat very well at all so that could definitely be an issue.

Have you seen an orthopedist (MD) about your neck pain? Had an MRI? Do you know the source of the pain? It may not even be the soft tissue, it could be coming from the disc between the vertebrae, which can squirt out and press on the nerves (Thats just one common example...could be any number of things). MFR is a legit technique, but it may or may not work depending on the injury. I would start with a medical work up and see an experienced PT (not a new grad!!). Beware of any chiropractor who wants to do high velocity manipulations to your neck...I've seen healthy people have strokes from that. Some chiropractors are good but many want you to come 3x a week for 6 months...uh, no.

Saw a neck doctor or orthopedic doc a couple years ago and did an MRI and there showed a minor bulge at c6/c7 but it was nothing he wanted to do surgery over so we've just did injections and physically therapy which were both ineffective but there is definitely pain at that level of the neck but the pain goes up the neck to the bottom of the skull so its confusing.

I had a lower back problem and the docs sent me to PT.

After 2-3 times 'intuitively' I recognized it was ridiculous to continue PT.

I specifically asked the PT people whether my back was aligned. They moved their fingers down my back and said 'yes'.

After a couple of days, for the first time, I went to a chiropractor. He stated my back was totally 'out of alignment'.

He prepped me in a massage chair and bed then I went in.

He merely felt the muscles and tension along my back and immediately at the top of the back said here is one problem and immediately corrected it. I never realized I had an upper back issue but felt relief immediately.

He went lower and said this is your major problem and made a 'movement'. He said the area is so inflamed he felt it moved but it may need one more treatment in a week to make sure.

I immediately felt the 'release of pressure' in the lower back and then could 'walk' much better and knew I was on the path to recovery. A week later he moved it one more time but that was it ------ no continuing treatment.

Because of the crazy 'pt' the swelling was far worse than it was to begin with so it took a few weeks for it to heal after that.

An MRI should really show what is wrong but my doc would not give me one without trying 'time'.

Good luck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2017 12:33AM by spiritist.

I really don't know what to do I have an appointment set to see a different neck doctor than I have seen in the past to see if there is something that can be done about the bulging disc I have next week. I am wondering if that is the major contributor of my pain.

I'd be inclined to pay attention to your subject line: you think you are being scammed. That says it all.

I've had a lot of body work done (massage therapy, pt, and chiropractic). I've only had two chiropractors that actually helped me, and they were wonderful. The others either didn't help, or made things worse. Hint: the good ones don't force, twist, or jerk me around.

Good massage therapists are not easy to find. I've had a few good ones, and tried a bunch who weren't so good. You might check with your MD for a recommendation for a chiropractor or massage therapist. A good chiropractor might be also be able to recommend a good massage therapist.

It's normal to be sore after an adjustment or deep massage (drink lots of water, and take it easy). I also try to time adjustments close to a massage, so that stiff muscles don't pull me right back out of alignment. If you can't tell a difference in the next day or two, try someone different.

One of the worst chiropractic offices I went to, claimed that the body had to 'retrace' backwards through all the stages that led up to the current pain. They used this to explain why I was still hurting, and said it was normal to back track and that it would take months to get back to health. Please note, I'm not referring to a form of emotional retracing, where you experience the emotions attached to old pain, which I think IS legitimate, and I have experienced that. But my experience was that they used that term incorrectly to perpetuate unending treatments, and lack of progress.

In the case of that horrible chiropractic office, I quit going , and I started going to a wonderful massage therapist who cured my recurrent lower back pain, quickly and permanently. She was trained in St. John's Neuromuscular Therapy. I've found other good therapists after we moved, and none had the same training. But she was the best. I recommend someone you works trigger points, and cranialsacral.

I'll comment on the Feldenkraus (spelling?). I went to an excellent PT who did some work with that, and I'd be inclined to learn more about it.

I bought a book that has been useful for self-help. It isn't light reading, but can help you pinpoint the source of pain, by finding trigger points. Pain often originates somewhere OTHER than where it hurts, but if you press the trigger point, you'll experience the familiar pain, and you'll know you've found the source. Then the trick is to work the muscle yourself, or get an experienced massage therapist to work on it for you.

The following book has diagrams where you can look at where it hurts on your body, and it tells you what trigger points 'refer' pain to that area. It also tells you how to work the area to relieve the pain. It works, but some areas are difficult to work on yourself.

https://www.amazon.com/Trigger-Point-Therapy-Workbook-Self-Treatment/dp/1608824942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491769978&sr=8-1&keywords=trigger+point+therapy+workbook

For postoperative pain in my shoulder that lasted WAAAAY longer than it should have. The doctor implied that I was whining; insurance would no longer cover PT, and in any case, the physical therapist said nothing more could be done.

At that time, my daughter's FOL was a myofascial therapist. I don't know about now, but back then, MT was not covered by insurance. I got the "family discount rate" of $90 per session.

FIL was booked for weeks ahead, so I was assigned to his assistant, a marvelous lady named Vicky. This kind of therapy was not regulated or licensed by the state, so I was a little suspicious, but I came to trust Vicky's experience and intuition. She would not even look at my shoulder while working on it; she just gazed across at the wall and got whatever input came through her hands.

She would occasionally rotate my arm, press on a spot, and ask it that hurt. She was amazing in her ability to locate sore spots in this way. She gradually worked them out, or helped allow them to heal. I'm not sure which. I liked her and trusted her, and her way of finding the trigger points definitely helped me to heal.