In my 30s, married with 3 children. I've been active my entire life and was recently a Young Men's President in the ward.

My wife is culturally mormon.

I've read Grant Palmer's book and CES Letter and afterward was unable to pretend around family and at church.

You know the drill.

I discussed my lack of belief with both my Parents and my wife's just so that they wouldn't freak out when things didn't seem the same.

A few weeks after discussing with in-laws I received a long letter from an older friend/past neighbor of my wife and from my wife's grandfather.

The in-laws had been talking.

The letters are interesting, but for me the most important part of each was a statement each person made that was similar.

Both letter writers made it clear that unless I kept my kids in church and remained active that I wasn't really a "man" and was taking the lazy route that would negatively effect my kids and their children etc. etc.

I'm offended by these statements.

I don't know whether I really should be and whether these letters are even worth a second thought.

It is certainly true that those anxieties and fears of impending doom are owned by the letter writers. They have nothing to do with you or your family. That's really on them.

I'm not sure there's a right way or wrong way to feel about their actions. But their threats are not based in reality.

Yes, first off, the statements are offensive.

They are trying to manipulate you into believing that it is somehow unmanly to let your children know the truth about the Mormon church. They have no real arguments to counter the truth, so they are trying to attack through your manliness. And to hell with logic and reason.

This kind of manipulation is exactly why I would never let Mormons into any kind of situation where they had influence over my children. They all too often believe that anything at all is justified in holding the kids --- anybody's kids --- in the church's grasp. It is not uncommon for Mormon relatives to tell an ex-Mormon's children that the parent is being controlled by Satan and that the children no longer need to listen to the parent.

That kind of stuff will be something that you will need to be very careful to prevent.

I not sure what you mean by taking a second thought to the letters you received. You certainly should prepare yourself for the onslaught that is coming. What was your wife's response to your transition in faith? That is the most important thing to worry about. As for the letters, I find it revealing they are attacking your manhood and not addressing your concerns and questions regarding what you have learned.

We aren't yet on same page. Second thought comment. I'm not sure it's worth responding to anything like this. I don't think they have the ability to think critically when it comes to Mormonism.

The statements are offensive, so being offended is the proper response. They are meant to terrify you into returning to the fold. If you aren't terrified and return to the fold while apologizing profusely, that will be proof that your heart has been hardened by The Adversary™.

This is a page out of the standard Mormon playbook, Intro to Culthood 101.

No response to letters unless you are in a situation publically then let it all fly-calmly, succinctly and leave no room for doubt. They question your manhood-now question their intelligence. Once you do this your wife will be a target- using her to get to you. Be prepared to support her unconditionally. You expect same of her.

Gatorman



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2017 05:12PM by gatorman.

"Free agency" that is what the church teaches right? Well now it is time for them to accept that. There are lazy Mormons and lazy non Mormons. Faith is something personal and has nothing to do with being a "real man". It is sad but their responses are very common. Their responses are due to fear that their dream of being a forever family are now in danger of falling apart.

They're being busybodies (wonder where they learned that?) and bullies, trying to intimidate or shame you. They're afraid and when people are scared, they do usually react poorly. I'd ignore the letters and pretend you never received them. If they really feel so righteous, they shouldn't be afraid to confront you directly. THAT would be the "manly" thing to do. They're chickenshits that don't deserve a response or acknowledgement.

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I'd ignore
> the letters and pretend you never received them.
> If they really feel so righteous, they shouldn't
> be afraid to confront you directly. THAT would be
> the "manly" thing to do. They're chickenshits that
> don't deserve a response or acknowledgement.

Not only that, but it will be sheer TORTURE for them if you never mention or acknowledge the letters in any way. If they do ever ask if you received them, you can simply reply "Yes" and then change the subject. That will drive them insane too.

They're using the best tools at their disposal in the most Mormony way possible. How's that looking?

This is how they respect all of the thought and mental anguish you put into arriving at your conclusions. You are free, they are not. They're stuck in the double bind that's specifically designed to keep them in the Church.

About you damaging your kids, that's the Church's job and they'll do a fine job if you let them. Whatever they're getting there can be had at a much cheaper price elsewhere. Being happy shouldn't cost you your soul. There's a lot of bad developmental psychology they will have a hard time overcoming. Just look what it did to the rest of your family.

or "I believe your feelings are sincere" or something like that.

Don't respond to the letters. Just let it ride for now. But know that they will be coming after you to see how you took them.

When they do ... Respond something like this ...

Did you know __________________???

(ie.) "Did you know that Joseph Smith sent men on Missions and then went after their wives for an "eternal marriage"? How could that have been right when God commanded "Thou shalt not covet they neighbor's wife"? How could that have been right when he would then rob a faithful member of his wife and children? These ARE NOT anti-Mormon lies. This is historical FACT from the Church's own resources."

Get a list together of the most egregious offenses of Joseph Smith and prepare some responses. Let them know you have STUDIED YOUR RELIGION and they need to do the same. Recommend the Church Essays to read.

While you're at it, pick some seriously contradictory doctrines from the Bible vs. Mormonism so they perceive you are going after the "pure Christ". This will alleviate their fears that your children will grow up without the knowledge of God.

THE BEST TO YOU!

Their argument doesn't make any sense. How dare they try to shame you with gender roles. Finding fault with the church has nothing to do with being masculine (or feminine)... This is why America can't make progress... Your in-laws should understand that you are no less of a person for making your own decisions, no matter if those decisions are agreeable or not to them. But of course, it's all about control, so they will play dirty in hopes of gaining dominance over your right to believe what you wish and to raise your children as you see fit. If you're ever forced to interact with them, let the toxic in-laws know you are onto them. Toxic people hate being called out on their bs :)

My advise would be to not respond but to also not forget. These people have told you very clearly that they are declaring themselves your enemy. I would really have nothing to do with them going forward, and I wouldn't make any attempt to be nice to them going forward.

conversation with some of these same thoughts. They just didn't say it directly.

I think they did say it directly to their friend and parent's and whomever else they may have run into.

Wouldn't be surprised if my parents, who are TBM tbm's, don't have the same thoughts, and wish they could say them out-loud.

It appears that with mormon family and friends it may be a no-win situation.

Take the high road and pretend all is good or cause problems and potentially lose contact.

1 year ago - none of this had even been a thought in my puny brain. In fact - I probably would have had a similar thought process had I been confronted by the current me.

Stinks.

Until the in laws cross the line, I might keep my powder dry.

But my general advice when it comes to in laws is to never accept behavior that you would not accept if it came from others in your life. In laws can use the threat of damaging your marriage to wreak havoc.

Treat in laws as you would anyone else, and if they cross the line call them on it or impose consequences. From my experience, I think most people are better off enforcing limits with in laws. Otherwise, they will push it as far as they can.

Good luck.

Rather than argue with them, at this point, if you need to respond, either verbally or in writing, simply send them a copy of the article of their faith. Highlight that one that requires *them* to respect your religious choices.

They are failing to follow the dictates of their own religion. If they go any further, simply point that out.

But --- if they make any attempt to influence your children, please do not allow it. Not the slightest attempt. if you let them do that, they will do everything in their power to alienate you from your own children and to convince your children that you are evil.

This is not an unlikely situation. It happens far too frequently in situation such as yours. The only way to deal with it is to make it totally clear that anything --- absolutely anything --- along that line will result in complete removal from any contact with you and your children.

>> I'm offended by these statements.

As well you should be. The statements are offensive.

Having said that, I think you should ignore them. If the same sentiments are brought up again, treat them as being beneath your notice. Feel free to snort with derision or roll your eyes -- and then walk away.

You have been officially disparaged by these people. I think outraged is a better reaction than offended.

Do not take the high road. The high road leads straight off a cliff. Do not let these people near your vulnerable children. When you step in dog doo you scrape it off and wash your shoe. You don't pretend you can't smell it.

What these people said to you is disgusting. And it is no coincidence that they used the same semantic tactic. You have become a major topic of conversation. I know my Mormons.

As with most of the above poster, ignore the letter.

I am a man. To me being a man means I take an honest assessment of my life and make changes where necessary. A real man doesn't bully or force others. Real men defend others who are being treated unjustly or being exploited. Real men extend themselves to others to make this a better world. Real men care about their family well-being; we treat our wives and children with dignity and respect.

Real men don't allow bullies to control our lives. We are adults and fully capable of making our own decisions. Real men own the products of our decisions--whether those products be good or bad. Real men make mistakes and admit them. Real men lead authentic lives and provide examples for others.

Reed, you are a real man and received a cheap shot by those wishing to control you. But, you can handle the misguided people who threw it. Best wishes! The Boner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2017 07:40PM by BYU Boner.

I like this, Boner!

Well stated, Boner.

Great reply boner !

Furthermore, boys do what they want to do. Men do what they HAVE to do.

Ignore the letter. The best statement you can make is to be as boner said. Let them see that you are a great guy, dad, husband. That your life is good and all is well. Love your wife and kids always and show it. Hopefully this is who you already are, so continue to be just that.

If you decide to reply in anyway to them, simply state the 11th article of faith and let it go at that. Any arguments about polygamy. JS marring young girls, the rock in the hat, etc, etc. will get nowhere with them. Simply be you and be the best you can be for your family.

Live, Love and be Happy....

They're not likely to understand the objection or try to change. I'd still suggest trying to set boundaries to curb some of the worst of their behaviors.

I agree with others. Those statements are offensive, but I would ignore them unless they really push the issue. If pushed, I would list a few specific reasons why you can no longer believe, and point out that the lazy thing to do would be to play along and pretend you never learned those things. Doing so would negatively affect your children and generations to come.

You mentioned your wife is a cultural Mormon. I guess this makes it easier given her life is not revolved around the cultural and religious aspects of the LD$ church.

You haven't done anything wrong. You're just making connections and questioning. How does your wife feel about it? That's the most important thing because you guys are a team with your parental responsibilities.

think anyone who doubts is lazy and probably having a sexual issue.

THERE ISN'T ANY OTHER WAY THEY CAN RECONCILE IT.

I think this site gives true believers way to much slack.

They don't respect doubters enough to actually get to the heart of the problem.

If they persist, give no response and no contact, I say.

you will see that this happens often. I like what BYU boner said, too.

My view? You have every right to ignore gross stupidity and advice that has nothing to do with you and is only about their beliefs.

Ignore the nonsense. File it or delete it, but let it run off your back like water off a ducks back.

One thing I often recommend is the imaginary Duck Suit that we need to put on to deal with a high level of interference from other people who have no business in our lives in the first place.

Your act of respect was to let them know you have changed your mind. It was not an open door for condemnation.

If you must reply, shutting them up, just quote the 11th Article of Faith.
"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”

After my children and I resigned, I kept trying to salvage my relationships to Mormon family members, friends, and neighbors. Trying so hard, just made me feel more hurt by their shunning and accusations. I ended up cutting all ties, anyway.

If I knew ahead of time that my Mormon neighbors would start shunning me, and that Mormon so-called friends would end our friendships, and that my family would snub me--I would still have quit the church.

It is a cult! What do you expect from cult members? Most of us here on this board have received similar treatment.

This "not really being a man" is something new, however. Mormons follow along with advice on how to treat people who leave their cult. Maybe this is their newest tactic. They all seem to talk the same sentences at you. They said I would get sicker, and fail financially, and that my children would fail.

Anyone who secretly wants these things to happen to you and your family are NOT YOUR FRIENDS.

My two cents worth: write each of them the following, simple note: "Dear Whoever, Since you have felt free to write to me and criticize my recent decisions, may I offer the following reciprocal advice: Please read, absorb, and -most especially- practice your own 11th Article of Faith. When you have done that, I do not expect to hear from you again regarding the subject of either my faith journey, or that of my family."

Then, seal it with a 'Kiss my ass' and drop it in the mail!

I wish my dad was like you and got us out of the Mormon church when I was young. I would give quite a lot if I could reverse time and make that true. Your kids are lucky you are man enough to deal with the truth.

Here is part of a poem I wrote to express sadness that my dad forced me to deal with Mormon history and family past issues on my own, because he wasn't man enough to face them.

You abandoned that past.
Left it behind like a ravenous shark.
But you never thought to wonder.
If when you fled that shark.
You left me behind to face it alone.

Some things would be so much easier if family was on your side.

I'm genuinely baffled by the seeming non-sequitur it is for believers to say that you are a [whatever...blankety-blank-blank] for copping-out on the gospel...

...whennnnnnn...

...I just said "I don't believe it's true".

OK consider my logic, even if you ARE a believer. I don't think it's true. As a premise, this necessarily means that your assertion of [whatever...blankety-blank-blank] based on the (untrue) gospel, isn't true either.

How, by your assertion that I'm now a wet noodle according to the gospel, am I supposed to accept that assertion, when I've already said I don't believe in the premise that the church is true in the first place?

You're saying I'm a wet noodle...because the gospel is true.

I'm saying I'm not a wet noodle, because the gospel isn't true, unless you have another REASON to call me a wet noodle.