In Chapter 3 of the Book of Abraham, verses 18 through 23, there are references to intelligences, spirits, and souls.

Verse 18 says that "spirits" have no beginning, and our eternal. (Paraphrase)

Verse 21 says that God rules over all the "intelligences" that his eyes have seen since the beginning when he was in the midst of them. (Paraphrase)

Verse 22 says that "intelligences" were organized before the world was. (Paraphrase)

Verse 23 says that God saw that these "souls" were good and stood amongst them, and that these would be his rulers.(paraphrase)

Verse 23 also says that God stood amongst those that were "spirits" and saw that they were good. (Paraphrase)

Is the Book of Abraham using intelligences, souls, and spirits synonymously?

In Chapter 4 of the Book of Abraham, verse 26 states, "And the Gods took counsel amongst themselves and said: Let us go down and form man in our own image' after our likeness ... ".

How many Gods were part of this counsel?

rebeljamesdean Wrote:
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> In Chapter 4 of the Book of Abraham, verse 26
> states, "And the Gods took counsel amongst
> themselves and said: Let us go down and form man
> in our own image' after our likeness ... ".
>
> How many Gods were part of this counsel?


It sounds like a God orgy.

It's a celestial circle jerk.

I'm sure everything is explained in the Sealed Portion...

But do you know what the Church doctrine is in regards to my Topic question?

There you go! Mneumonic got it! Case closed!

I am a bastard.

Does god create spirit children that have to be born as bastards? How would I be here if my parents did not have their affair?

Does god want his flock to have affairs?

tanker:

Without affairs, some very important people in history would not have been born, yourself included:)

Can someone take a stab at my question?

Look no further than section 132 of the D&C for the answer. God doesn't need 2-3 thousand women to cook for and clean up after him. Them gals is fer fornicatin' and rearin' spirit young-uns.

Timothy

I suppose since women are more righteous than men - the only fair thing God could do is institute polygamy so women have the same chance to be Gods and not merely angels of God. D&C 132

You will receive your answers in "The Seer" by Orson Pratt.

https://archive.org/stream/seereditedbyorso01unse#page/n0/mode/2up

Not sure I can make it through all 304 pages:) Is there a summary.

Oh how grateful I am for such a holy book that contains the unchanging eternal word of the Lord as revealed to his beloved Apostle Orson Pratt. As you all know these beloved men are sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators. Thank you for sharing this beloved book. Whenever I think of Orson Pratt I'm reminded of the example he set on how these wondrous Apostles have treated their wives and how the world can be blessed to know all this. See https://www.google.com/webhp?q=Orson+Pratt+married+the+young+girl+of+whom+I+speak+in+Liverpool to learn about his beloved wife Eliza and how she got to get an early start to fulfill a glorious mission in the Spirit World thanks to the glorious Apostle's diligence at age 57 on helping 16 year old Margaret Graham get her eternal destiny in place.

Please don't praise or blame me on any of this. All such credit goes to the Church as Orson Pratt was their Apostle and his legacy will always be the Church's for all eternity.

If God really did not want people to have sex outside of a committed relationship, he/she/it would not have made sex so damn enjoyable.

The imagination, cleverness, sociopathy, etc., to use the Old Testament practice of polygamy as a way for JS to satisfy his voracious sexual appetite was shockingly brilliant.

The fact that so many of his closest followers believed that he had been commanded to practice polygamy says much about the incredible power and sway he had over people.

Yet, all of this occurred in very puritanical times.

Atari Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If God really did not want people to have sex
> outside of a committed relationship, he/she/it
> would not have made sex so damn enjoyable.

No sex = no survival = no species. If people could not reproduce for a mere 100 years, we would be extinct.

However, not likely to happen without a worldwide infiltration of our water system.

Much more likely that we will all die in a nuclear attack.

The Book of Abraham is whatever was in Joe's imagination at the time. It sure has nothing to do with those scrolls he had. He produced a "translation", and by golly he was a prairie genius.

Haha no that's ridiculous but I know Mormons strongly believe it.

badass:

Does it say that anywhere in Mo scripture or by any prophets or G.A.'s?

I heard an institute teacher talk about this they definitely believe it under the radar that somehow sex as gods produces spirit children.

Brigham Young said it:

"Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was ever made upon any other principle.” (Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 3:, p.319)."

However, later "prophets" elaborated on Joe's "intelligences" idea and said we've always existed. God was a more advanced intelligence that somehow progressed on his own...without needing to be born, baptized, etc... He then organized us other intelligences and calls us his children. Check out Joseph Fielding Smith's Doctrines of Salvation. It's full of this and other stupid crap. According to Deseret Book, "Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1-3, is an authoritative work, written by the most outstanding scholar of the gospel in the Church containing a wealth of explanations about a vast array of gospel topics, many of which can not be found in other sources."

Thx Shine:

It's a very interesting doctrine - but?

On earth, physical bodies create physical bodies.

In the CK, why would a resurrected physical body create only a spiritual body?

It seems 2 spirits who copulate would create spirit children.

But hey, God works in mysterious ways.

I have thought the same thing it makes no sense

What purpose does making sense out of it mean?

I have no idea to have it just make common sense now you're not making any sense.

I was being facetious - of course it makes no sense.

This is the heterogenous nature of Mormon deification doctrine. If we can become like god we must be made of the same stuff god is made of. And if god is eternal we must be eternal. And if god was once not god than there must be a method to become a god.

So in the BoA it uses words that are supposed to convey developmental steps spirits are eternal but they haven't always been spirits. Before they were spirits they were simply intelligences. Intelligences are the building blocks of all of creation. Some intelligences were better than others and they became spirits instead of say, hydrogen.

If you want to take it further. All of the intelligences that aren't spirits are pissed. And because of their anger they want to halt the progression of the spirits. That is judgement. God doesn't judge us, we are judged by rocks and air and stuff like that because we have been given a better chance than they were. All of these intelligences are so enamoured with Jesus that they will do anything he says. So since Jesus suffered for everything the intelligences are good with spirits progressing as long as Jesus says it's ok.

If there are any Mormon lurkers, tell me I'm wrong.

Jacob:

The B of A, does not say that intelligences existed before spirits.

The B of A, also says that intelligences always existed, but were organized by God, whatever that means.

The B of A, doesn't say anything about how souls or spirits were created, assuming those are separate from intelligences.

You're not reading it with your spiritual eye.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2017 07:24PM by jacob.

He did it with his "spriritual" nads.

I imagine that making spirit children goes something like this:

https://youtu.be/tyVlaWrwl4k?t=25s

Hmm - two fingers touching - doesn't really give me a good reason to be all that righteous. Lol

If we have resurrected perfect bodies, how can sexual intercourse produce spirit bodies?

Susie Plakson, all 6'2" of her--be still my beating heart.

Those pouty lips, that voice; at the top of the list for 'Star Trek' guest stars...now *that's* Celestial!

And I STILL haven't answered your question (probably because it's one of those LDS theology Jell-O doctrines...

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g168/grahamofborg/Star Trek/tarah.jpg

I thought the B of A was proven to be bunk?

The LDS faithful do not believe it is bunk.

The BoA is bunk. LDS hasn't the courage to tell the truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2017 10:16PM by jiminycricket.

The internet and changing mores are unraveling the Church - one member at a time.

Banned Mormon Cartoon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3BqLZ8UoZk

Jesus. This is not a Mormon made cartoon. I believe this was made by Ed Decker. If I recall correctly, most of what's in it is accurate, although some things are exaggerated and it's portrayed to make Mormonism look as bad as possible- although they didn't really have to do much to make Mormonism look bad.

So I don't understand why it's titled 'banned Mormon cartoon'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2017 12:15AM by midwestanon.

I think cartoons and humor are often the best way to show the silliness of things.

Great cartoon! Thanks for the link :) Had I seen this when I first moved to Utah, it would have saved me years of reading! But then again, I would still know less about them than I do today and it may have kept me from delving further and discovering RFM, which would have been a tragedy ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2017 08:28PM by cinda.

To come to the question again. Joseph Fielding Smith said that sinners would be resurrected without the necessary body parts to mate. They'll be Unichs, The meek inherit the earth-- the obedient get to participate in "pleasure" in the after life...

Now how he was so certain of all this I don't know?

I wonder what the punishment is in the CK for sleeping with another mans wife. If he has several, he may not notice or care.

Besides, if it takes billions of years to achieve perfection, there is still a lot of sinning that we will likely do.

Do we still have to seek forgiveness, or did we already go through that stage.

Holy fuck! What type of question is this! God, in Mormonism, has a penis, and uses it.

“The Father came down and begat him, the same as we do now…” [The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young, vol. 1, p. 321; February 16, 1849, Salt Lake City

“When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost… Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven… Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. I will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon this subject, when I replied, to this idea if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children, and be palmed upon the Elders by the people, bringing the Elders into great difficulties.” (Journal of Discourses 1:50, 51)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2017 09:32PM by BYU Boner.

at least as he thought of himself in his own mind...

And he had a penis and used it a lot!

I don't know what the mormon church teaches nowdays and I can't give you chapter and verse. But to answer your question yes. Mormons believe, or atleast some moremons believed 20 years ago, that spirits came about through sex. It was made clear to me both at home and in seminary that spirit 'bodies' (which was the concept used) are made from "intelligences" through divine sex. It was never clear eaxctly how or why sex was necessessary for the creation of spiritual bodies, but appearantly it was.

And with this sort of 'priming' when reading the BoA it does seem the BoA supports the same model. But I can see how that passage in fact can be interpreted very differently. It's a bit how one very strong condemnation of polygamy in the BoM, in 1 Nephi I think, has been severly softened by adding just a little chapter heading with misleading "context".

Now obviously it was almost never said outright that god has sex, other than the occasional creepy bishop mormons tend to want to avoid mentioning sex at all, but it was a strong implication and underlying assumption of what they did say. Like how one of the perks of becoming a god yourself in CK is that you get to keep your genitals. Often stated in it's negative form, that not getting into the CK will get you neutered. Or messages that 'procreation is divine'. The whole eternal families and we can become gods scheme implies it. Or occassional very fortright statements that the method of divine procreation is "already well known to us" or something to that effect.

Simple math makes it clear that it wouldn't work. For billions of offspring it would take an eternity. Sure, a few could be created by relations but think of how many billions of years it wold take to create even the number of people now living? So, folks, us men won't be spending all of our time having relations with innumerable wives. And what about listening to a billion prayers simultaneouly?

Perhaps celestial intercourse only takes a second or two, but is far more orgasmic than anything on earth.

Second, why couldn't one single copulation produce thousands or millions or spirit children at one time.

Problem solved, case closed.

There is an answer for everything if you just have an imagination.

Kindergarten theology