My SO is talking about doing a camping trip with classmates. This camping trip would include one or two others of the same sex as my SO and a whole bunch of the opposite sex. I don't want to tell my gender or my SO's gender to eliminate people answering this question with bias which I believe many people would. Pat (let's call my SO Pat) is trustworthy and loyal, but I still don't like the situation. Am I a possessive, controlling, jealous weirdo for feeling this way? Would I be overly trusting and naïve to not feel this way? How would you feel about this if you were me? If I tell Pat I'm not comfortable with this and Pat reacts poorly would you blame Pat?

nature, all with learning from prior experiences, tells us when we should be concerned or worried.

You didn't mention how long (overnights?) the trip will be.

Best of luck, we're pulling for You!

Thanks for the kind words. It's a 2 day, one night trip

What's the purpose of the camping trip? You know, is it like a seminar or something? Will the kiddos be kept busy?

Could you go along?

It's not a seminar or anything. Just a bunch of kids from class decided to go for dun. Not kids necessarily, but 20 somethings. I just brought it up with Pat and it resulted in a big messy fight about and Pat scolded me over and over for not trusting him/her. I had a feeling this is how it would go. The alternative was to bottle it up and let it fester. Pat and I have been married for 3 years so our relationship is serious.

I know one thing for sure. If I ever feel concerned about Pat's relationships with friends of the opposite sex I either have to keep my mouth shut and deal with it, or prepare for a big old fight if I do bring it up. It kind of bothers me because I feel like I make a lot of effort to not ever make Pat have to worry if anything I am doing is not on the up and up.

I don't log in as a user, but I have been using this screen name for several years. FYI

You might want to sign up with your name in order to officially "claim" it. I didn't sign up for a long time until someone came on the board with a similar name. That spurred me to sign up. There are benefits to logging on. You know which posts have new responses, and you can edit and report posts. You can also stay logged on without difficulty.

If Pat were loyal and trustworthy for this trip, Pat wouldn't have got defensive and turned this into a fight.

ok I know I am old plus in a 30 + year marriage. HERE's the thing, my spouse & me travel spend nights traveling independently for: training, seminars, conferences, medical appointments, work team conventions, fieldwork, including convention banquets hospitality nights breakfasts meetings long drives and conversations, even sometimes/ rarely even, seeing family... for years, 27 years, obviously, the majority of hotel travel was independent employer planned work related separate independent travel. The majority of white linen table cloth meals were traveling independently at hotel conventions and nearby restaurants with colleagues. AND SO personal time becomes protected. REcreational travel overnight trips we do as a couple. That's including camping, trailer time, tents, not just motels & hotels. Although multiple work travel some years, always independently whatever sex co workers on the team, we always take recreational travel as a couple. THere's a difference. oh, and dates. yeah uh huh we do dates together as a couple, not date stuff without each other with friends of opposite sex- that's that's how we roll. Sight seeing, restaurants, shops, rocks, any canyons- that's together not some one else's time. Work trips that's independent. our relationship is not open, our time is limited, our recreation time is limited, so we utilize that limited recreational opportunity with each other not sleeping over with somebody else or another group away our spouse. THat's not how we roll.

now other people have their own ways, and, we are old. But this is how we do it. your milage is going to be different especially if your spouse has an argument with it. I suspect I sound rather traditional in that I want to go camping I like it there- I like mornings in the sun, in the rain, I want more of them waking up in my spouses' arms again. So, I let him know way back when. And he still takes me camping, or walking through art displays, to restaurants, eating brownies and muffins and cinnamon rolls I made earlier if we knew we could only afford a cup of coffee.

I don't want to just be someone he meets at home, since now we don't go out to church, but as soon as they wanted him weekends for scouting and coaching sports at work, if others have him that much public time, then I want to be accompanying my husband socializing going out oh yes on his arm. Just because we're not at potlucks or church does not mean out and about together is over.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2017 04:21AM by paintinginthewin.

If Pat's trustworthy
no problem

Pat goes out everyday and meets people of the opposite sex. I guess you dont feel jealous just because Pat leaves the house

Now, overnight is a bit different - if Pat is the kind who will take advantage of a situation like that - but you say pat is Trustworthy

The other problem is that Pat will get seduced by someone of the opposite sex (or the same sex) and be tempted beyond Pat's level of 'trustworthyness'

Given what you know of the other people involved, how likely is that?

Reverse the situation. Could you be trusted if you went on a similar camping trip?

If you consider your husband generally trustworthy, I think it will be fine.

I've been camping a time or two. It's not an orgy.

I'd suggest you get some counseling. You do not 'own' Pat but with your compulsions to control his/her life, and the time he/she spends with the classmates/friends, I think you may find it drives him away from you.

Trust, in a marriage/relationship is major. Screw the control lid on too tightly and it will most assuredly back fire on you. If Pat has roving eyes, Pat will find ways to satisfy those inclinations whether camping or not.

If Pat would go to counseling with you, you both may end up with more confidence in the relationship. Otherwise, I think you are a walking time bomb.

I'd say the poster went to great lengths to indicate that he or she did not own Pat and did not see this person as his or her possession. I did not see possessiveness as being the issue, or even trust necessarily as being the issue.

The greater issue is that you feel a certain way, and your significant other invalidated those feelings by arguing with you and making accusations of mistrust, rather than addressing the issue and possibly offering reassurances.

Maybe I'm not articulating this properly. It just seems if someone's in a marriage and someone needs to talk to the mister Or the misses about something and their first instinct is for that person to go on the offensive or to get defensive, that's not very healthy. I don't know if it indicates anything about your significant other's faithfulness or not. I guess I wonder why the two of you can't have a conversation about it without arguing. Without knowing more, and honestly, without knowing you in real life, I can't tell you why that is or who bears the brunt of the blame, or if it's mostly one person's fault, or if you are both equally at fault.

I would have to say that being uneasy at the thought of your SO going camping alone with a mix gender group is not an irrational reaction. Especially since it doesn't seem to be related to any kind of specific club or group, and as you stated, was just a bunch of people getting together. With that being said, I don't think there is anything inherently suspicious about it, either.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2017 09:03AM by midwestanon.

"I'd say the poster went to great lengths to indicate that he or she did not own Pat and did not see this person as his or her possession. I did not see possessiveness as being the issue, or even trust necessarily as being the issue.

The greater issue is that you feel a certain way, and your significant other invalidated those feelings by arguing with you and making accusations of mistrust, rather than addressing the issue and possibly offering reassurances."

THAT is what would concern me. Without knowing more about your possible emotional baggage or that of your significant other, I can't say that one of you is off base in your feelings. Maybe your SO has dealt with a controlling, jealous ex. Maybe you've had a cheating ex, or there is something about your current SO that you don't trust. Either difficult past could make this situation emotionally charged.

But regardless, you felt uncomfortable, you should be able to talk about it, and he should be responsive to your feelings.If you can't talk about it, in a non-accusatory way, without him freaking out, then there IS a problem. Maybe not cheating, but a lack of respect for your feelings.

I think it would be talk this situation out in greater depth with a counselor.

The one thing I will say is that you should trust your gut. If something concerns you, or feels 'off', pay attention. And if he/she tends to dismiss your feelings, MOVE ON. You deserve a relationship where your feelings count. If you are being told that your feelings are wrong, it's not a good relationship.

But if he/she is just super defensive, then THEY need to work on that. And you don't necessarily need to wait around for them to sort their problem out, if it's coming at your emotional peril.

I would be uncomfortable with it if I were free (not at work or school), but not invited. If you're not free, and Pat knew it, why should't Pat go, rather than spending the time alone?

If one of you have to stay home because of a child or children, I would be very upset. It would have little to do with "jealousy."

Are you likewise free to go camping without Pat, should the situation arise?

It's about finding a balance that is usually acceptable to the both of you, and it won't always mesh or be perfect.

I'd like to suggest that you try to stop buttressing Pat's "comfort level" of your interactions with the opposite sex. You may rationalize it as a simple courtesy, but the underlying premise is that you explain yourself as if you are untrustworthy.

You may be projecting those feelings of being untrustworthy onto Pat, if you are otherwise occupied when Pat is going camping, and there are no children. However, that you do explain yourself - what and/or whom brings that up?

If it's you, then I humbly suggest some counseling to accept and deal with those feelings of insecurity. Do it now, early in the marriage, before it becomes a long-term issue. You may not see a connection (yet), but it's likely that growing up, your parents (or people who raised / influenced you) didn't teach you that you are trustworthy, and how to "own" that independence. Having to constantly, fearfully, explain your whereabouts and interactions with others, way past the age of about twelve, would be an example. A bishop grilling you about sexual activity as a child or teenager would be another. Being assigned a constant companion for two years would be another. If you're an exmo, you likely have many examples of being reared as if inherently untrustworthy.

That people are inherently untrustworthy is cult-think, and you may still be infected. The infection can be "cured" by learning to think in larger, freer terms. You can grow out of it, and approach life from a much healthier point of view.

It wouldn't make you a "weirdo." It simply means that you were treated unfairly, and don't realize that you know no other way to be, and may be doing it to your family, too. You can learn new ways to be, and feel good about it.

ON THE OTHER HAND,

If it's Pat who seeks explanations of your interactions with the opposite sex, trust your gut about the camping trip.

I don't think Pat's being honest with you. If you don't mind him/her going off on a 2 day weekend camping trip with the opposite sex, and he/she isn't willing to ask you to go along, that tells volumes.

It sounds like Pat wants to have his/her cake and eat it too. Are you in an open marriage, or a double standard at work?

20 somethings are *not* *kids* either.

Reality check time.

I don't think you are concerned that something will happen as much as you are concerned that something has already happened--like loss of respect for you and loss of importance for your own relationship or even the beginnings of an affair. This is where you are. Trust your gut.

Getting angry with you because it bothers you is not a healthy response. That is a controlling response, not a deep discussion response with some real honesty about where you both stand. You can call me old fashioned, but for me, married people don't go on outings in mixed company without their spouse. I would never.

Many years ago I was in the same situation only much worse. S.O. got angry and told me I was being immature. I convinced myself that I was over reacting and let it all happen. Turns out that I wasn't over reacting and I was being used.

A friend used to let her husband go on trips like you describe by himself because she couldn't get away because of work. Guess what? You already know.

Do not doubt yourself. This is bigger than a camping trip.

And a lot of non-platonic as well. Hell, even slept in the same bed with one or more people of various genders and orientations without anything sexual happening. Sometimes cuddlig and snuggling, but not really sexual in nature. The keys here are boundaries, trust, and self-control. One of my questions is, why don't you go with Pat? Another question to ask is will alcohol or other psychotropics be around? I'm not saying they cause people to cheat, but they definitely enhance the opportunity.

Several years ago, BF went on a Grand Canyon trip with a bunch of co-workers, male and female. I trust him, but I'm also not upset if he has a one night indiscretion as long as he is safe about it, but I realize I'm the outlier here. I couldn't go because I didn't want to spend 10 days on the Colorado on my menses, having to deal with the stuff you have to do on the heavy days (TMI? TFB). Trust and respect in relationships ARE possible when both parties realize that they are in control of their genitals even if they aren't in control of their thoughts or attractions.

I would be more worried your SO doesn't feel any concern for your worries because cheating really is pretty common and it happens even with the strongest of couples.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2017 10:11AM by Itzpapalotl.

Because you even thought to write this,"Am I a possessive, controlling, jealous weirdo for feeling this way?", I would highly recommend you read Co-Dependant No More. Seriously changed my life and the way I handle situations such as you are in now. It's fairly short but packs a punch.

Having been on the other side of this fence I think that the abrupt defensiveness is worrisome. However this may simply be your SO's personality.

Were you also invited on the camping trip?

I don't like the situation either, to be honest.

I think if you were invited on this recreational camping trip is the main point. I agree Rubi 123 that I don't like the situation either. (I'm skeptical because when my first Mormon elder proposed he asked me to be his 'first' wife lol & put his bragging about his family was from the Mormon colony in Mexico into a whole new light.) So I've been skeptical all my life about those who wouldn't want to recreate overnight with their own wife.

That said, I have traveled at least 30 trips staying overnight away from my spouse last year, and upwards of 50 or 60 the year before. ( I always establish hotel booking for 2 in my account and always accommodate when he wants to go.)On his work days when I travel HE and I reach out texting and talking late into the night & if anything goes wrong, he'll get in his truck and meet me hundreds of miles away even after a long day's work for instance last August he drove an additional 130 miles after his normal commute because I needed him, I couldn't make it home so he met me a little less than half way up the state.

When I was a regional officer in a group setting up its own conventions and monthly meetings supporting its members, I always brought my spouse to the convention my team ran with me. He did not go to break out sessions he went to the beach instead but he sat with me at the linen covered table by my side at the banquets my team ran, and politely sat and waited whenever I stood to collect raffle tickets, announce winners, or help run the event.

When he had a big role in an organizational change and technology turn over he was out at conventions on a team, and weekends team building over a year and a half monthly as well as extremely long hours.

When a couple is composed of persons working, each with work obligations their separate careers will require weighty time apart- including co ed or any sexual combination trainings conventions seminars travel - just to keep the job.

THIS makes time where we decided we a couple- more important. co ed or with anyfolk than sexually attract to one of us- is not a group for recreation for one spouse without the other. our Recreation is together.

Say someone did have a an escapade (which I btw haven't participated in he can trust me lol), it was only in a hotel oh well. if ones committed partner chose not to recreate with you but chose to recreate with someone else instead, they are moving their escapade into a social role replacing you. I'm not up for that. I'm not raising children so getting contributed to until they're gone, I'm not a friends with benefits to see and screw and goodbye- I am a partner a spouse ... And I expect I will be part of recreation when he & I are not at work, because we chose it. Its not a role I want to let go of- I very much enjoy our recreation together & hope that he does to, and am willing to concede and plan around his plans hopes and dreams which he expresses to build and develop recreation together.

but I am old these are my 'mores' is that a word?

three years in after marrying- you are developing your 'mores' if that's a word. in your 20s, you are establishing growing developing making what your routine will be. What you do is not only up to you and your spouse but what you dream, you believe, you want, to be. to make. to create & how to establish it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2017 11:51AM by paintinginthewin.

When I got back together with my old boyfriend some 12 years ago, he was in Colorado and I was in Utah. He was just going through his divorce after 26 years of marriage, so it was difficult to say the least. I was very possessive and very worried all the time. I worried every time he did anything with other women that I was going to lose him. This went on for about 4 years. I often got a lot of transference issues to me when he was upset at his ex.

Then my parents died. I realized that if he wanted to be a part of my life, that was up to him, that I had a good life and I'd hate to lose him, but I wasn't going to drive myself nuts anymore. I changed immediately. Now he can't get enough of me. Sometimes it is a BIT MUCH. It amazed me how big of a shift our relationship took once I quit worrying about these things.

I HAD TO GET TO THAT POINT with my ex as he was gay and he was cheating all the time. I just got to a point that I lived my life and quit checking up on him. He did leave me, which we would expect. Now we are best friends.

Two questions.

1. If the purpose is merely "just for fun," why are you, the spouse of three years, apparently not invited? Is "Pat" only able to have fun in your absence?

2. If the situations were reversed, and it was you going on a mixed activity by yourself, would "Pat" act like a "jealous weirdo" or be OK with it? If "Pat" wouldn't approve of you doing it, you don't have to be OK with it either. It cuts both ways.

Did Pat ever date any of these people in his past??? Did he wish he had???

If he's had a past dating or sex history with any of these people, I would have to say "Houston, we got a problem".

I don't understand those who insist that, once married or "committed," their SO must not have any friends who are of the opposite sex, or never do anything with anyone of the opposite sex, etc.

I think it's ridiculous to insist that your SO must not interact with half of the world because of your own insecurity.

If your SO is going to "cheat" on you, your SO is going to "cheat" on you. That will happen whether you "allow" opposite-sex friends or not. And if they're not going to "cheat" -- same thing.

I have female friends, and have since long before I got married 25 years ago. Never "cheated" with any of them, never would. My wife has male friends, same thing. It's healthy for a relationship, in my experience, to not do EVERYTHING together. To have your own interests, and your SO their own interests. You're sharing a life together, you're not sharing a jail cell where you're forced to do everything together.

I don't think this is even an issue of "trust." It's an issue of getting over your own insecurities. Up to you whether you can or not.

I'm in agreement with Hie. Not only are these feelings a waste of time, they're corrosive to a relationship.

My motto is trust no one, not even yourself.

Trust ruins relationships. You set up conditions that you insist (trust) your SO to follow. When they don't, you are surprised and angry.

Best to expect them to "cheat" on you. Then no anger.

I fully expect some day to come home from work and find my wife screwing some dude in our bed. Only question is who - mailman, meter reader, neighbor, repairman, or ????

So whatever she wants to do is fine with me, but I may choose to not couple with her right after the mailman, and I would rather not get STDs.

But if you're going to have a SO, there are risks. Just like driving down the highway. If you want to be truly safe, live alone and masturbate.

That sounds like an incredibly lonely and unhappy way to live. It also sounds like your life is devoid of any true intimacy- romantic or otherwise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2017 12:19AM by midwestanon.

I think this is a situation that would require an intimate familiarity to be able to advise smartly.

Frankly, I can think of a lot of scenarios where I wouldn't be the least bit bothered if my wife were to have an overnight activity with some friends, with me uninvited. On the other hand, I can think of scenarios that would make me quite cross were I not to be invited along.

Perhaps you've given Pat reason to believe that you wouldn't like to go along, so the assumption was made that you wouldn't like to be invited either?

This happened to me at BYU. I was "going steady" and "engaged to be engaged" my Freshman year. We had promised to date only each other, exclusively. We had even looked at wedding rings. My boyfriend was very good looking, charming, and popular, and the Mormon girls pursued him relentlessly, not caring that he already had a girlfriend.

One girl was particularly aggressive, and thought she was a big deal, because she was "Belle of the Y." I'm not sure what that was, but it involved cooking, and making her own outfits, and some kind of talent. She was in my boyfriend's geology class, and for the 3-day geology campout, she wangled herself into his "camping group."

My boyfriend knew that I would not like this, so he tried to keep it a secret from me, which made it worse. He sneaked off a several times for "planning meetings" and to do the grocery shopping with the girl. When I found out, I asked him if maybe he could join a different camping group, and make different sleeping arrangements on the camp out, but he would not. I assumed he wanted to be free to camp with this girl, and so our "going steady" was pointless. I wanted to play tennis with one of my California boyfriends, which didn't involve any overnights. I told him that I didn't want a relationship that had to be enforced. I wanted a steady boyfriend who was willing and enthusiastic to be with me, above anyone else. I wasn't going to enforce any unwanted rules. We could still have fun together, along with his camping fling, and my tennis matches. We could still love each other--but we could not, honestly, still say that we were an exclusive couple. I gave him his pin back.

I was his first BYU girlfriend. We were friends all four years. We skied together, and had to work together as student body officers. I dated his roommate and others. I started to see my ex-boyfriend's pattern.

He immediately started dating the aggressive "Belle-of-the-Y", and even went to her hometown with her, to meet her parents. The next year he got engaged to a friend of mine--with the ring he and I had looked at, the year before, but they broke it off. He got engaged two more times at BYU, but was still single when we graduated. He was too impulsive and adventurous to settle down. He became a pro baseball player.

I think camping with the opposite sex is a red flag. Your significant other doesn't care about your feelings, or respect your rights as a "significant other." Become this person's friend, and not a "significant other", so you can both live whatever lifestyles you want. I was glad I did what I did, and didn't get engaged--my ex was a heartbreaker.

The fact that Pat got defensive makes me think there could be something else on his/her mind with the trip. Defence and reacting poorly isn't a natural reaction of someone who is completely innocent (in my experience).