Alright, this Post is really about the reasons people cling to their religion, not their guns, even when they no longer believe, or have significant doubts.

1. People that lose their LDS faith are initially terrified that they may no longer see loved ones in the next life.

2. Some begin questioning the existence of God.

3. Others can't handle the stigma or potentially harm to other family relationships.

4. Some stay active for fear of harming their business relationships.

5. Some stay because of fear they will lose friends and have no social life.

*** What other reasons do you find why people cling to their religion?

Perhaps because they feel their children need it to teach them 'morals'?

Valid point - you are an interesting lady - always like your Posts.

They have to defend their homes against imaginary terrerrists and holy ghosts. But seriously people you are defending against nobody.

I think it is easier for the mind to believe in something rather than nothing, even if the something is not true. There is great comfort in identifying with people like us; whether it is Mormon, white, republican, etc.

Believing you hold the truth card often trumps any and all other considerations.

Lots of mormons believe that any person who leaves automatically becomes an alcoholic gutter whore. It's either or. You can't just be a good person outside of the church.

I encounter that a lot. The LDS faithful have a difficult time believing that someone could leave for doctrinal reasons - it is easier to believe unworthiness because that avoids any cognitive dissonance.

Every June I go to a men's retreat in Pennsylvania, the state, notably, where Pres. Obama talked about "people who cling to their Bibles and guns." Hence, the term, "bitter clingers."

It's a great 2 1/2 days. We camp on a mountaintop in the Scranton area, have great preaching, Bible studies, and fellowship, and they haul three (!!) mess wagons up; the food is fantastic. On the middle day, we have a shoot-out on a mowed hayfield, with lanes set up for various categories of firearms, skeet, long-range, and boys instruction, all supervised by a qualified range master.

We know what we're clinging to--I call ourselves the "BETTER clingers!"

Great Post:) I am not sure whether clinging to guns or religion is more powerful, but combining them is like a nuclear bomb. Lol

Sounds great Caffiend!

Because they are afraid. They need God and special underwear to protect them. But, just in case that's all made up BS, they need guns and a lot of ammo. Sad way to live.

FDR, said, "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself". Whether we like it or not, fear is incredibly powerful. Fear propels us to do things we would never do otherwise, and it prevents us from doing things that we should.

They disarmed the populace in Australia, but somehow criminals manage to get guns.
Maduro disarmed the populace in Venezuela, and now he wants to arm 100,000 persons in "people's militias," who will, I'm sure, safeguard the people's revolution.

Of course, nothing like that could ever happen in the United States!

The gun crime rate is way down.

A little intellectual honesty is too much to ask when someone has an axe to grind, I suppose.

Is overall crime down significantly? Or are criminals finding substitutes?

Snopes "debunked" the increase in homicides following Australian gun confiscation, but based their findings on a single article. It appears that homicides were trending down, but the Port Arthur massacre gave the anti-gun party the political momentum to move firearm confiscation forward. It seems they spiked briefly, then returned to the previous rate of decline. ("Success has a thousand fathers...")

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-28/fact-check-gun-homicides-and-suicides-john-howard-port-arthur/7254880

Other countries that have enacted restrictive or prohibitive have shown inconsistent correlation with reduced homicide rates. The United Kingdom's homicide rate spiked, then declined--but this coincided with a major hiring increase in constables. More cops = less crime.

http://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/

Common sense tells us that if you're facing a bad guy with a gun, your best defense is a good guy with a gun, not a Social Justice Warrior with an ideology.

Um nope. This is a NRA slogan. Just watch the clip the news did about the GOod guy with a gun. Often doesn't work.

Check Catnip's post, below.

I strongly recommend that everybody who carries be not merely well practiced at a safe range, but also highly knowledgeable about their legal responsibilities and limitations. Matters such as self-defense, "stand your ground," reasonable retreat, and what constitutes dangerous threat sufficient for lethal force vary from state to state. Catnip's visible possession of a firearm may have been perfectly legal in, say, Texas, but not necessarily in New Jersey, where it might have been termed "brandishing" or "armed assault."

Quick tip: If your firearm ever comes into play, even just by telling an assailant you're armed or showing it, dial 911 immediately and get a police unit to take a report. Otherwise, your adversary can present one side of the story and make it look very nasty.

The fist time I got into a road rage situation, I didn't realize that the jerk had pulled in beside me and had effectively blocked my entrance to the store. I had gone about my business, locked my car door behind me, and was setting out to go to the shop when this JERK - that same one who had been honking, hollering obscenities, and making all sorts of international signs of goodwill when we were at the stop light and I failed to make a right turn despite having an arrow (because I intended to cross the street and drive into the shop on the other side) - pulled his car in beside me, and started coming around the end of his car toward me.

Training and practice kicked in. The weapon was concealed in my purse, but I slid my hand around it and was prepared to fire. I used my other hand to elevate my purse to about chest-level. My body was turned sideways as they teach you in class. I had my
feet braced in a shooting stance, and I was ready.

"I have a .38 in this bag," I shouted (I wanted everyone nearby to hear.) I'll blow the bag to shreds if I fire, but at this range, there is NO WAY I can miss YOU. So back off SLOWLY, get back in your car, and drive away. I will have my firearm trained on you until you are out of sight."

I was shaking with rage, so I must have sounded pretty dangerous. The guy was angry at being confronted; no two ways about it. But he wasn't going to take a gamble on my having a gun, even though he had not seen it. He was cussing up a blue storm, but he sidled back into his trashy-looking car and drove away. And as promised, I kept my purse raised with the gun trained on him until he was out of sight.

One of the men who had gathered around asked, "Hey, lady, you really gotta gun in there?" I answered, "That is something I NEVER bluff about, sir." Several others wanted to see the gun.
Because of the rules about "brandishing," I refused to take the gun out of the bag.

I never did go into the shop and buy what I went there for.

After the police arrived, I unloaded my weapon, handed the gun and the bullets to them in two separate handfuls (so nobody could claim they felt threatened), and the I fished out my permit. (General warning here: concealed carry photos generally turn out as awful as drivers' license and passport photos, so don't expect much.)

You hit the nail on the head. Fear prevents many from engaging in intellectual honesty. It is much easier to bury your head in the sand.

It's an identity for some.

Take that stuff away and there's no balls left . . . for some . . . sadly.

As Jack Nicholson once said to Tom Cruise, "You can't handle the truth".

I think that really summarizes everything.

The truth is just too goddamn painful.

I don't have a religion to cling to but I like my firearms.

I bought a five-round pistol about a decade ago. My husband that would be easier for me to operate, as I have arthritis in my hands and cannot do that "tchnik-tchnic" maneuver that you need to changer a round in an automatic. On 8 out of 10 automatics we tried, this was true. For me, this was not the obvious choice.

I ended up with a little 5-round Taurus .38, and turned out to the be best shot in my concealed carry class!

Our instructor HAMMERED AT US, over and over, that if you pick up that weapon, you don't hem and haw over the justice or injustice of shooting someone who is trying to break into your house.The decision has been made before you pick that weapon up.

And yeah, it's a pretty scary feeling.

I've had to use my gun in two road age incidents within the last year, and it was anything but exhilarating. But at least, YOU know who holds the cards until the police get there, and it's NOT the bad guys.

We store the firearms in very safe places around the house, out of sight but easy to grab if you know where they are. The the doors to the rooms where the guns are kept are keyed ONLY to the room the guns are in. DH and I know this. The rest of the family does not. I'm pretty sure that the grandkids don't even know that we OWN firearms. I prefer to keep it that way.

If we are going to travel anywhere (by car), we go online and check laws applying to carrying a firearm in that state. In many states, the law is an extension of having a firearm in your house. It's there for YOUR protection.

We have both been through extensive classes that teach you to evade, avoid, weasel and talk your way out of an armed confrontation if at all possible (preferably while your partner is calling 911). You do NOT draw your weapon unless your assailant is approaching you and obviously means you harm.

The rules are different from State to State. We always check.

We practice at the range and are both good shots. We do our very best to keep our weapons in the best possible condition (You don't need a misfire due to a dirty gun.) And as I outlined before, nobody in the family knows we even have the guns, let alone where they are hidden.

We decided against gun safes, because they take too long to access in an emergency situation. But if your gun is tucked right under the CLEAN socks at the corner under your bed, you can grab them in a hurry. And when family or other visitors are in the house, the rooms where the guns are kept are locked. Period. And only DH and I have the keys.

We don't want to hurt, let alone kill, ANYONE. But crime is rising in our city, if if some drug-crazed nut tries to crash into my house looking for valuables, he just might find himself getting a free ride out in the ME's van.

People have been killed here - recently - by some hopped-up teens who killed a middle-aged man for his money (for drugs). The guy had $13 on him and a family to go home to.

That's why we carry.

Fear.

That's really all they're both about, despite all the dancing around fear proponents regularly do.

Without my guns how will I defend myself against the christers ?

The old fashioned way I suppose.

Oh its about guns with me, once you almost get shot with one it gets personal and then your view changes.

Prepared!

Being prepared for the rare possibility that you may some day be faced with the unthinkable reduces fear. Not preparing for such an occurrence is to suppose that evil doesn't exist in the world. Finding oneself at the mercy of someone with evil intent is a fearful situation. Again, I would rather have one and not need it than to need one and not have it.

I cling to my guns for the fun they give me. It seems people only see the negative aspects of guns. Take a 22 rimfire,some tin cans and go out to the boonies.Let a newbie bounce a can across the desert and check out the expression on their face. They usually have a grin you couldn't blast off with dynamite. If you have never fired a gun you need to go out plinking some time.It may change your mind about guns. I also have guns i would never shoot.Highly figured walnut stocks,beautiful hand engraving they are works of art.

Yes, those customized ones are gorgeous. I love how you can customize them. I want one with a pearl grip, either white or pink. I can't make up my mind on the engravings, so many designs floating around my head. I know that I want a patriotic one and a hockey themed one, but can't decide on the designs on each one. I also have to find a good artist, so I'm taking my time, and no, I doubt Ill shoot from either.
I know I'll be tempted, maybe one time, but after I get it back and see it, probably not, just one time
I also want a M1911A1, collector's item only. I have a real ,deactivated colt , but want to get a untampered with one too.
I like the SIG 1911 Scorpion, but that will be for practice.
I like the regular 226 Scorpion too.
They're the only Sigs that I can get my hands around the grips.
I don't like changing the grips.
That's why I like Glocks, my hand fits all of them , my 21 Gen 4 ad my gen 3 one, which is thicker

The gun reference was to create interest. This Post is strictly about clinging to religion.

If it is not about guns don' put it in the title.

Have a little fun - the topic is the teaser - the Post is the tease.

To be in Control or die.

re religion, is this the ego's existential self defense?
is religion an ego- defense?

is religion an identity? is one
s religion an ego-identity or is religion a form of self or is a self? are there religious identity strands or is one's religion one's entirety? When one believes in ones religion is that what one means when they say: this is who I am or this is what I am?

Does the god conceptual emotional taught in one's religion (be or become) a projection of self? is religion definitive for humans?
does one's religion become self defining? does one project a part of self into a religious role or narrative within one's cultural religion?

if or when an obvious undenyable fact occurred- for instance, the world is not flat, or for instance, the stars do not revolve around the earth, or if there were ever any evidence of alien life above a microbe or speck of light- would humanity's religious need deny it or inculcate it within their religion ?
So that (The now undeniable) X was ______ in the book of mormon or that (The now undeniable) was X in __scripture's prophecy book X verse 22, or that (The now undeniable) was the metaphor or the descriptive phrase from blah blah blah book _ verse __.

If religion is so defining to many culturally, what about when their world, their planet, or some thing changes. IS there a word for this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2017 01:23AM by paintinginthewin.

Religion not so much.

Guns, someone has to shoot the coyotes that are breeding like rabbits. It's become a neighborhood contest. We worry they'll go after a small child. They've already killed several small dogs, cats, a turkey and a lot of chickens.

Science says the universe was created as a result of the Big Bang approximately 13.7 billion years ago.

Science says that life began on earth approximately 3.8 billion years ago.

For those that do believe, did God cause the Big Bang and use Evolution to create man?

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

...."And we'll all stay free"!Somebody else besides me ,knows that song!!! Yay! I love that song; they play it a lot on Sirius channel 73. I love big band, trad jazz and bebop , and blues too.

Hint: They won the Cup two years ago, were in the playoffs this year, but got shut out in the first round
Another hint: my baseball team is the Cubbies

By the way, my mom was crazy about James Dean in high school. She still likes him , of course, he wasn't given a chance to make more movies. I can see why all the girls liked him back then.
Did you get the Life magazine on him?

I did not. My first two names are James Dean - but I wasn't named after him.

Oh, ok. That's still neat, to have the same name as someone like him, unless you don't like him, that'll be different.
So, do you get asked that a lot? ( If you like him or were named after him)

Can only speak for myself but there is a tremendous joy in skeet shooting Book of Mormons. "Pull" and 2nd Nephi turns to confetti. Moroni's promise is just gone! Guns and religion and be very satisfying.

As reported by the "Washington Post":

"In April 2008, then-senator Barack Obama, a relative upstart Democrat from Illinois, was locked in a presidential primary with then-senator Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.). Pennsylvania's important primary was less than two weeks away, making Pennsylvania the temporary center of the political universe.

"Then, the candidate whom some reporters were already describing as almost preternaturally aware of the American voter psyche made what just about everyone considers a mistake. At a San Francisco-area fundraiser, Obama took a shot at explaining the mostly white voters in those hard-scrabble and once-booming Pennsylvania industrial towns. He was speaking to a largely wealthy and well-educated California audience, and these Pennsylvanians were people that, in the minds of many liberals living along the nation's coasts, seemed to be voting against their own personal interests.

"They seemed angry and politically confused, casting their votes with some regularity for conservatives who support, without modification, the trade deals, labor practices and shrinking wages that were making these voters' lives so hard. These are the people the 2004 book "What's the Matter with Kansas' was talking about. An unpaid 'citizen-journalist' and Obama supporter following and writing about the Obama campaign for the 'Huffington Post'--at her own expense--was at the fundraiser and, to her credit, reported precisely what Obama had said:

"'You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.'"

(Source: "Obama Revives His ‘Cling to Guns or Religion’ Analysis--for Donald Trump Supporters," by Janell Ross, in "The Fix," published by "Washington Post," 21 December 2015,https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/21/obama-dusts-off-his-cling-to-guns-or-religion-idea-for-donald-trump/?utm_term=.ac2003a7c62e)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2017 12:02AM by steve benson.

To re-state it, "I like think of myself as a BETTER clinger--I know what I'm clinging to!"

Brings to mind, Hillary's remark, that the average Trump voter is "deplorable and irredeemable."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2017 12:18AM by steve benson.

Note his original shoulder position as he goes after the very tricky horizontal skeet shot. Unfortunately, his drone marksmanship was not as expert as his shotgun.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/02/02/white_house_releases_photograph_of_obama_skeet_shooting.html