"Bottom line: The truth hurts. The fact that conservative Christians can become so angry over a humorous video depicting “debauched ice cream” only reinforces the notion that their anti-gay Christian morality deserve to be mocked and ridiculed."


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2017/04/bill-nye-receives-death-threats-mocking-christian-morality/


And before someone brings it up (Christian persecution)...yes, I think all religions (including Muslims) can and should be mocked.

eternal1 Wrote:
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> And before someone brings it up (Christian
> persecution)...yes, I think all religions
> (including Muslims) can and should be mocked.

It's interesting to me how often I see this sort of "we mock all" claim for inclusiveness and yet how often Judaism is excluded from the list and how often it escapes ridicule.

Have you never seen a Woody Allen movie? Have you no Jewish friends? Jews have been ridiculing themselves forever.

It is less common these days for outsiders to mock Judaism and Jewish culture. Blame the holocaust: it's still "too soon".

East Coast Exmo Wrote:
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> Have you never seen a Woody Allen movie? Have you
> no Jewish friends? Jews have been ridiculing
> themselves forever.

Yes, of course; themselves and everybody and everything else. "American" humour today is essentially Jewish humour.

> It is less common these days for outsiders to mock
> Judaism and Jewish culture. Blame the holocaust:
> it's still "too soon".

Right, which is my point, holocaust being the reason or not.

Or not? Do you a different, plausible reason in mind?

Well none specifically, necessarily.

Do you think "the holocaust" is the ONLY reason for the general reticence that we both have observed?

There is a current wave of political correctness that is keeping a lid on a lot of mocking and humor; things aren't as rough and tumble as they used to be. However, in the case we're discussing, I'd say the holocaust is 90% of the reason. Again, "too soon".

Give it another 50 years.

I don't think 50 years will make a difference when it comes to the effect the Holocaust has on our society.

At least, I hope not. I hope it's always held up as a standard of what NOT to do or say (severe understatement).

Many people blame "political correctness" for having to change how they talk or what they say. I can see their point in a small number of cases. I mean, I get what they're saying.

But too often it's used as a rallying cry for those who don't seem to care how offensive they are. That kind of impulse I would like to see refined a bit. I don't see anything wrong in being careful to be inoffensive. Unless your business is to be an equal opportunity offender, such as a satirist or cartoonist, etc.

Listening to hockey the other day the radio guy repeated a comment by one of the coaches who said that a remark by another team (explaining how they could win, or something - I didn't hear that part of it) was "French math". The announcer chuckled as he related that and then quickly said "It's OK for us to repeat 'French math' as the coach who said it is French Canadian".

Now *that* I thought was "politically correct". Could anybody possibly be offended by a French Canadian calling someone's comment "French math"? The coach's name is Alain Vignault - so French, yeah. Got it. So he can say that but somebody repeating it has to worry that they're crossing a line without giving out the disclaimer?

That being said - I do think that in view of the cultural obliteration that has been inflicted on vulnerable populations they deserve a bit of making up time now from those of us who are aware of the issues and care about them and want to demonstrate that we understand, somewhat, and regret the wrongs.

I strive to keep up with culturally acceptable terminology. (Eg: In Canada, in referring to indigenous peoples we have gone, in my experience, from "Indian" to "Native" to "Native Indian" to "First Nations" (most recently) and just when I learned to remember to use that term now suddenly it's gone back to "indigenous", which previously was seen, as far as I understand, to be offensive. But the populations involved have (finally) been consulted and their current preference is "indigenous". If they change again at some future time I will endeavour to have kept up with updates and change my language to match. Out of respect. It's not too much to ask, I don't think.

So yeah, sometimes so-called political correctness goes a bit far. Still, I err on the side of being inoffensive. Or I try. And I don't begrudge the effort to be more sensitive.

And if it takes 50 years or 500, entire populations who have been appallingly wronged will still deserve the effort and respect, in my book.

As for Bill Nye, I like him, but I don't know much about his work. I do regret the rigid attitudes of whoever, Christian or not, who seek to harm someone for WHAT THEY THINK OR BELIEVE. True enough, some stated beliefs I have zero time for and am not interested in discussing with zealots (white nationalism, for instance). But hey, free speech is free speech. Regrettable as the words may be sometimes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2017 08:24PM by Nightingale.

Human Wrote:
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> It's interesting to me how often I see this sort
> of "we mock all" claim for inclusiveness and yet
> how often Judaism is excluded from the list and
> how often it escapes ridicule.

I think it is not so much the Holocaust as the fact that jews have no ambition whatsoever to convert everyone else.
Christianity used to have that ambition and islam still does. Jews are not a threat to secularism, other religions are.

he's an immoral moralist.

Doesn't get much more hypocritically "moral" than that.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2017 03:17PM by steve benson.

Yes of course the Holocaust is the reason, that and the vile, mean-spirited nature of many ethnic jokes including anti-Jewish jokes in the past. This excludes self-mocking humor, we already heard about Woody Allen, but the king of all is the immortal and hysterical Mel Brooks. And as someone else said, most of popular American humour is Jewish.

If you are longing for the good old days of racist Jewish jokes, perhaps like me, you are part Irish. If so, take a look at what passed for "humour" about the Irish in the 19th century, particularly editorial cartoons. I'm sure Steve Benson can tell us more about that history, especially Thomas Nast who did not just bring us Santa Claus.

Not so funny when it is aimed at your ancestors and your family, is it?

I don't think it's the Jews that are making the threats, if they were, the mocking of them would be just as valid.

From the Pink news article referenced in the OP:

"Several of the comments on the clip included direct death threats aimed at Nye.

The show has come under heavy fire, with sickenly homophobic Christian ‘news’ website PJ Media claiming that Nye is “giving ISIS more reasons to hate us”."

"Meanwhile, alt-right news website Daily Caller claimed that Nye had “slammed Christians” with the ice cream clip."

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/04/27/bill-nye-mocked-gay-cure-therapy-and-now-hes-getting-online-death-threats/

Here's a link the the video in question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46h-LfNWPn8

That was one of the most innocent comedy skits I've seen in a long time. And they protest against this?

If anyone reads gay group sex in this they are deluded. They are only hugging and kissing. It's the kind of love fest I had everyday in kindergarten.

eternal1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And before someone brings it up (Christian
> persecution)...yes, I think all religions
> (including Muslims) can and should be mocked.


Mocking peoples fundamental cultural beliefs ... how very tolerant and loving of you.

Urb Wrote:
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> Mocking peoples fundamental cultural beliefs ...
> how very tolerant and loving of you.

Indeed it is. If your children came home from camp convinced that the Moonies are the one true church, would you tolerate and ignore it, or would you mock them into scepticism?

Sometimes mocking is the loving thing to do.

Consider it freedom of speech. And, thanks so much for the tolerant and loving comment.

I think there can be a major difference between mocking, which I might define as holding up to ridicule in order to insult or demean, and lampooning and satire. The ability to laugh at ourselves and the silliness of our world is a healthy thing. But then I am British and I think we Brits have a far greater ability to do so than most

The troll who posts death threats here against me must really get annoyed at Bill Nye.

You Canadian farmer, you!

Hope things are OK at your place. Thinking of you and your family.

Doing OK, thanks. Things are looking up. Thank you for asking. I won't say anymore lest my evil troll have more ammo to fuel his/her hatred.

Gotcha LR. Take care.

Best regards.

is this the same troll who hates Eric ?

Yup. Hates Eric and wants to put a bullet in me.

after reading all this, think again...

Christers receive no death threats after mocking reality.

First, love, peace and hoping for the best to you and yours, LR! You and she are never far from my thoughts.

I think it's criminal that a troll has muted your commentary, particularly now. I saw a couple of those attacks, and seriously, fuck that criminal. Sorry for the curse, but I needed to say it plainly.

Coward that he is, of course he also wished harm to a woman. I hope that the IPs and messages were archived for later prosecution. Someone like that would be well acquainted with the penal system, and a recipient of the "prison justice" that cowards like him so richly deserve. I hope he realizes that sentences can be in Federal prison, and run into the years.

I ask nothing of you, LR; your response is a matter of non-judgement on my part. I only wanted to let you know that you don't have to post details for you and yours to remain in my heart, and I'm absolutely sure that the sentiment is shared by many.