This might seem odd, but as a former very active member this is real to me. I use to think that my role as a young woman was to be worthy and ready to go to the temple. I have recently left the church due to my questions regarding Joseph Smith as a prophet. It has been really hard. I have a man in my life that I have always really liked and when I was active wanted to date. He is still active. We hung out recently and he will not date me because I am not active. He told me something that really upset me, and I just do not know what to think. I asked him about some questions I had about the church and he told me that people cannot get over the fact that God is a polygamist. He said that it isn't as bad as people think and that it isn't that men do not love their wives, but that we as woman have been given a divine roleto be mothers and that people are interpreting it wrong. WTF? Is it so wrong that I want ONE man to love me as ONE wife? WTF is the temple teaching? I am a smart woman who thought that the temple was this love abiding covenant providing house, and now I think that men do not marry for love but because they think its their duty.

This man is brain washed by a cult. Thankfully, you're recovering from all of that.

Not all marriages are because of love. Many are and that's what you deserve.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2017 12:48PM by Cheryl.

To play Devil's Advocate for a bit (lol) I do think that a lot of people tend to freak out over polygamy (or any form of polyamory) far too easily. The fact is that humans were originally very polyamorous, and only recently have we developed this weird social norm demanding monogamy. Plenty of people are perfectly happy in relationships with multiple partners. It's a fact. And it's perfectly okay.

That said, the whole "divine role" thing is where it goes really wrong IMO. Raising girls solely to be mothers and homemakers is abhorrent to me. But it's part of Mormon culture, deeply rooted in their doctrines. According to D&C 132, polygamy is, in fact, necessary to enter the highest tier of the Celestial Kingdom and attain godhood. So men get to play god while women sit back and bear spiritual children for the rest of eternity. It's the most disgusting form of patriarchy and misogyny, IMNSHO.

And it's all thanks to good ol' Joe, who designed the whole scam to give his flings with other men's wives a sick kind of legitimacy.

Tmg is learning to be honest enough to choose reasonable goals that fit her needs.

I didn't say that it was. I'm talking about the moral outrage that inevitably comes up whenever polyamory of any kind is even hinted at these days. Obviously being monogamous is okay too; what's not okay is condemning others for not feeling or thinking as you do.

Society isn't responsible for supporting a practice that undermines its foundation.

I speak for myself and not for Tmg who condemned nothing. Are you a polygamist? Do you have personal experience with plural marriage?

If so, perhaps you could start a thread on the benefits as you see them.

If you're talking theoretically, that gives it no credence.

But that would mean women could have multiple partners as well...in Mormon polygamy, they can't. So it's not just about polyamory, it's about a fundamental inequality.

Exactly. In reality polyandry should be just as common as polygyny.

Technically "polygamy" means having more than one wife OR husband at once, but in Mormon culture it's become synonymous with polygyny. But then Mormonism is steeped in patriarchy, as is all of Christianity, so I guess it's not a surprise.

You dodged a bullet there! Who wants to be part of some man's cattle herd? He's off his trolley!

Love is real. You'll know it when it finds you.

This friend of yours is a mopologist steeped in cognitive dissonance because of the damage the cult has done to his thinking.

He doesn't know what love is because of his reality. He's denying himself from living authentically. Being LDS takes up a person's entire thoughts and controls their lives to think like he does.

He hasn't discovered he belongs to a cult, but you have.

When I was LDS, like your friend, every position foreign to LDS doctrine Christian or otherwise, I used to bargain and reason everything to where it fit Mormon theology, because since it had to be true - I had to justify my being one.

One thing for sure, he's not where you're at in your development.

Love however, is still real. It's part of our makeup. I've been single most of my life, and now I'm older. I still believe very much in love. I'm not willing to settle for an imposter or counterfeit love. Counterfeit love is all this friend of yours has going for him.

The most intelligent mammals and species in the animal kingdom are monogamous by nature.

That tells me more about polygamy than any Mormon instruction manual can.

Only 3 percent of animals are monogamous......and not the smartest ones.

>> We hung out recently and he will not date me because I am not active.

He might not have dated you anyway, despite what he says. And if he dated you, it might not have led anywhere.

>> ...he told me that people cannot get over the fact that God is a polygamist.

Only Mormons believe this. You are free to not believe it. I don't. I think that Joseph Smith instituted the concept of polygamy to give legitimacy to his numerous affairs. Joseph having sex with young teenagers was not about religious principle. It was about having sex with young girls.

>> WTF is the temple teaching?

Google "Mormon temple ceremony" on YouTube. It's up. You can also see a temple wedding.

In time, try dating nevermo guys or exmo guys. There are some great men out there. You will be fine.

I really believe that if a man finds a woman very attractive, it isn't going to matter what religion she is, or isn't.

It's the law of attraction for most men.

This guy sounds like a manipulator and control type.

Even if I were a Mormon he would be someone I'd keep my distance. Who wants to be with someone who doesn't accept people are adaptable or flexible? Let alone tolerant with some degree of open mindedness?

To him women are an object. Stay far, far away from that type tmg.

At the very least, TSCC teaches that polygamy is okay under certain circumstances. It is not. Polygamy has never been a good thing, nor will it ever be.

Polygamous marriages were never real marriages. You can't get married one day, then pick up chicks the next day. That isn't a marriage. A marriage is about love AND commitment. Legitimizing adultery is the opposite of what a marriage is all about.

This is not a relationship you want to pursue...look elsewhere.

Gatorman
41 years with an exmo

tscc teaches girls (and boys too probably, I am not a boy so do not know) not to love themselves, but to be of service to those around you. this turns you into a little submissive with little to no self esteem since all you can think of regarding yourself are your 'faults' that you need to correct.

Once you learn to love and accept yourself for who you are, only then will love ever 'find' you. If someone is unable to show themself love and respect then they will be unable to give it to others as they do not know nor understand what it is.

that guy will never love anyone until he loses that mindset - do not judge yourself according to his mormon mindset. The further away from the cult mindset you get, the more he will appear unsuitable and the more you will wonder what you ever saw in him.

I know it sounds corny but learn to be your own best friend and even if you never 'find love' you will have a great life and will let nothing and no-one ruin it.

the mormons she has dated want someone to fill a role in their lives, not that they have found someone they love. They have a checklist and you are just one of the things they need to check off. She bailed on her wedding 18 months ago because of this attitude. She is VERY mormon.

If you want to see what kind of a marriage polygamy is read the book "In Sacred Loneliness." Mormonism is about lack of intimacy and not just with polygamy.

One thing I couldn't tolerate is the thought of sending my son off on a mission. He wouldn't be able to call me except 2 times a year. He could only write to me once a week and his letters are monitored to make sure he isn't saying anything he shouldn't.

I saw how they acted when we went inactive and the primary presidency came over and tried to interfere with our children. Told us in front of our two 8 year olds that we were bad parents and now they were going to take our kids to church meetings. Mormons don't even believe your children are your own. They belong to the church.

Like others have said, you don't want anything to do with this guy.

May I also just say wait until you have kids if you don't know if love is real now. I even still love my ex and he loves me. We just aren't able to be together because he is gay. The love I have for my kids is something I never thought was possible. Yes, love is real.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2017 09:23AM by cl2.

Yes, love is real, but can be pretty elusive. I've been very lucky to have found a great man who still tells me everyday how much he loves me. We got engaged about a month after we met, and got married 3 months later. We've had low rough spots and soft high spots and this year we will have been married for 37 years. So glad I didn't keep hoping for Peter Priesthood to come along, and fell for my never mo instead.

Do not fall for that Mormon polygamy lie regarding love no matter how much your heart is aching. Saying that because women can have babies puts them on equal footing with the priesthood men is one of the most insidious control tactics of all time. I find it a cowardly way for some men to get what they want. Putting a woman on a pedestal is a way to keep her in her place, not respect and empower her. That is why women have to empower themselves.

Who wants to be one of a set? Who wants to be a collectors item? Who wants to have to vie for time with their "love?" Only a mormon fool. That's who.

Real love is about the companionship and is about the one on one. Two. That is the number. The only number. Two.

I had a psychiatrist friend explain once why threesomes don't work out. Not romantically. Not as friendships among kids or adults. It is a fact of life that two will always have a stronger bond and one will be the third wheel even though accepted and cared for. It's just a fact.

Is ANY emotion real ? How does one prove the existence of an emotion ?

Isn't this the one time that feelings finally count for something? :)

Just don't go using them to start a church. Well, unless you want to get rich, then it might not be a bad idea.

I remember you from your early posts questioning the church. I'm glad that we were able to help you to see the cult for what it is, and to break free from its clammy death grip.

Now, as to the man you're dating – he is indeed in love.

He's in love with the church, and also with himself. You? Not so much.

Really, you don't want to hang with some church tool who thinks a celestial harem is great. Of course HE says it's not so bad; he's the one who (in his mind) gets all that godly lovin' with his heavenly babes.

You can do far better. For your own sake, cut the cord. The sea is large, and the fish are many.

I would ask you to consider if it should matter to you WTF they teach in the temple, because you are entering reality, and congrats!!

The more you view those teachings as irrational, the more rational you become. It's a common experience to feel disoriented as you learn more the ways in which non-mormon society funtions.

You are so much more than a role, and so are men. You are a human being, naturally seeking to bond and be intimate with a partner.

After 25 yrs with a kool-aid guzzling morgbot soon-to-be-ex wife, what I CAN tell you about love is that:

LOVE IS CONDITIONAL TO MORMONS.

Trust me on this one. I don't know much, but I damn sure learned this little nugget of wisdom the hard way. And it would seem that you have just received lesson #1 on this topic from this guy you are talking about. Take Gatorman's advice: dodge this bullet and look elsewhere.

Peace, edz



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2017 04:20PM by edzachery.

edzachery Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> LOVE IS CONDITIONAL TO MORMONS.
>
> Trust me on this one. I don't know much, but I
> damn sure learned this little nugget of wisdom the
> hard way.
>
> Peace, edz


Isn't love conditional to gods as well?
You have to do so and so or you will be cast into hell.
Sounds like it is normal for religious ones to be conditional

Love is the only thing that's actually real. Unfortunately, cults choke off love in order to feed off of people. Did you see "Land of the Lost"? The one with Will Ferrell? This guy has a giant blood sucking mosquito on his back. He won't come around until he keels over. You could be an old lady by then.

I know, it sounds far fetched. But, a lifetime of dealing with all kinds of Mormons leads me and lots of other people to the same conclusion. Really, it's not me. It's them. It's not you, it's them. Get away now.

One of my "Kodak" moments was when a psychotherapist told me the LDS church IS dysfunctional.

It shocked me at first because I'd never heard it described that way before, and then I was still a practicing TBM.

Now I see more clearly that's exactly what it was the WHOLE time, and still is.

From the top down to the local level the dysfunction was prevalent. People's petty bickering and back biting although the norm at varying levels in the church, it isn't normal or healthy in reality.

One convert friend from my NYC days who was a NYC fireman told me he believed the church was either 100% true or 100% false because of the hateful persecution that was systemic in the church by members to other members.

First of all, yes love is real.
Let me tell you what I wish someone sat down and put in my head when I was young.

Everyone has a different perspective on what the IDEAL relationship is. It is very disappointing to find someone you are attracted to...to rebuff you. Dear, it's going to happen a LOT and the real kicker is IT IS OK! Better to have someone tell you up front and early on that you do not fit in with THEIR plan.

This does not mean ever that love is unreachable to you. It simply means NOT A GOOD MATCH. He did you a favor actually, because now you won't waste your time pursuing this relationship that is based on unreasonable expectations.

What is sad about Mormonism, is that it promotes a one size fits all ideal of dating (which must always lead to a Temple marriage, kids, LDS devotion etc.) and marriage. LDS marriage vows even include a higher level of devotion to the CHURCH before the marriage.

The man that caught your eye made it clear that his perspective of why people have an issue with the LDS church is polygamy and it sounds like ehe supports that idea! Yes, many men do see marriage as a duty rather than a joy.

As a older single woman, I will let you know...DATING SUCKS. Focus on meeting nice people rather than finding love. Love will grow over time with the right person that has the right VALUES.
Respect. Conversation. Attraction. Kindness. Humor. LOOK for these things and remember that love grows when these thinks click with both people.

Hang in there...work on your own happiness that has nothing to do with having a partner. The rest will follow in time:)

RMM

Great post, RMM. Wow, a "pearl of great wisdom" for today.

:)

I'm in my mid 60's. I was single most of the time until I was almost 30.

I will admit that I occasionally Google some of the men I dated way back in the 70's. Wow! I feel like I should send some of them a thank you note for being such jerks. I dodged a ton of bullets. Some of them are doing just fine, but others, holeeeey cow.

There's one that if i'd of stayed with him, we'd be living with his mother these past 30 some years. No thanks. There's another that lives out in the middle of a pasture in a single wide waiting for his mother to die off so he can finally have something. Yikes! There are some that are still single. Keep in mind these guys are now in their early 70's! Maybe I should slip a $20 in those thank you's. I think a few of them could use the money.

Oh, and by the way, these are/were? mormon guys.They didn't come from poor families. They could have done anything with their lives. They chose nothing.

Not saying the guy you know is like this, but just saying if you could see into the future, you might RUN. I know I would have.

My husband was a nevermo when I met him. He didn't even know what a mormon was. We got married. We have 3 kids. Decided they needed some religious education. Too bad we went with mormonism. He joined the church.

Now, we're out and out for good. My kids are out too. No more mormonism at the Holiday get togethers. We have moved on and i'm so glad we did. I feel bad for exposing hubby to the whole mess, but he's crazy about me (that love thing) even after 31 years.

So I guess what i'm saying is be grateful when someone tells you who they are. Believe them. He's telling you he's a screwed up mormon mess with crazy thinking. It's true. Don't stick around for more of the same. He can't love. He told you that. Believe him. Do yourself a favor and move on. Find some friends that aren't mormon. See the world, live life. When you live life is when you accidentally find love in the most unexpected places.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2017 07:07PM by janis.

What is love? Baby don't hurt me. Haha couldn't resist but I truly don't believe in love but maybe one day. I think I have gotten so desensitized from everything it's not even funny one of the products of being in mind controlling religions is you don't know what is real and what isnt like love and other emotions. Theres a reason why Mormons go straight to atheism no more games no more invisible people we are done with it, even if Jesus finally showed up we are over it.

Of course love is real. There are 10 million different forms of love. I love my dog, peanut M&Ms, my friends, my family, windy days, live music...

Thing is, love is a verb. It's a thing you do. The temple and temple marriage has fuckall to do with love. There is nothing that's about love in the temple.