The article decries labeling FGM as a "uniquely Islamic" problem, which actually I haven't seen anyone do...seems a bit of a straw man. And while it *isn't* a "uniquely Islamic" problem, and not all Muslims practice it, there's no doubt that SOME Muslim sects DO practice it -- and in this case, it WAS a Muslim sect whose teachings were directly involved.
Yes, it's a medical problem. Yes, there are people in the world who aren't Muslims who practice it. No, those things don't mean that we shouldn't call out THIS Muslim sect who in THIS case was responsible.
It's an abhorrent practice no matter who's doing it.
ificouldhietokolob Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hmm. > > The article decries labeling FGM as a "uniquely > Islamic" problem, which actually I haven't seen > anyone do...seems a bit of a straw man.
You must have very little knowledge of the subject then. It is true that FGM, particularly historically, isn't confined to the Islamic world. However, all of the nations and communities in which it is currently practiced are majority Muslim. Not everyone who engages in said is Muslim, of course, but the majority are, and those that aren't are likely influenced by the prevailing cultural attitudes.
> And while it *isn't* a "uniquely Islamic" problem, > and not all Muslims practice it, there's no doubt > that SOME Muslim sects DO practice it --
True. The majority of Muslim and sects do not practice FGM. Some outright condemn the practice.
> and in this case, it WAS a Muslim sect whose teachings > were directly involved.
This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
> Yes, it's a medical problem.
Indeed. And a cultural and religious one too. To attempt to shuffle it off as merely a medical issue is absurd.
> Yes, there are > people in the world who aren't Muslims who > practice it.
Quite so. But circa 2017, it is largely an Islamic thing.
> No, those things don't mean that we > shouldn't call out THIS Muslim sect who in THIS > case was responsible.
Sure.
> It's an abhorrent practice no matter who's doing > it.
No disagreement there. But it is time for some intellectual honesty: this is largely driven by Islam cultural practices now. No amount of PC blather is going to change that fact.
ThePom Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You must have very little knowledge of the subject > then.
You must have very little knowledge of words, then. Because...
> Not everyone who engages in said is > Muslim, of course, but the majority are, and those > that aren't are likely influenced by the > prevailing cultural attitudes.
...majority is not the same as "uniquely." I can provide a link to a dictionary if you need one.
> ...it is time for some > intellectual honesty: this is largely driven by > Islam cultural practices now. No amount of PC > blather is going to change that fact.
I didn't suggest or brook any "PC blather." I disagreed with the article's main point, and clearly stated we SHOULD call out the religious nature of the practice and the Muslims involved in this incident.
In the US Somali community where arrests have recently been made, there is no real way to separate the Islam from FGM. Somalia has the world's highest rate of FGM at 98%.
Most Somalis are Sunnis belonging to the Shafi'i school. In this version of Islam, FGM is considered to be obligatory. This is a religious teaching.
LDS logic: "We have nothing to do with polygamy -- that isn't us!!! -- Please don't look at our D&C 132!! We know what it says, but really that isn't us!!"
The article fails to give ONE example where the practice of FGM is in use -- other than ancient history prior to Islamic cult practices took over (and obviously picked up the practice as a good idea).
Nope, I don't by it FSM sits squarely in the laps of the Islam religious -- we need look no further for the bad man.
weeder Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Nope, I don't by it FSM sits squarely in the laps > of the Islam religious -- we need look no further > for the bad man.
I think you need to look harder:
"...the high FGM rates are observed across all religions in Guinea; FGM is prevalent in 99% of Muslim women, 94% of Catholics and Protestants, and 93% of Animist women."
Does everyone in Utah practice polygamy? No. Is there more of it in Utah because of the history of mormonism and because the LDS church tries to cover it up now? Yes.
Inter-related religious and cultural practices are not black and white. Neither are they totally separate.
Once someone immigrates to the US, they need to follow US laws. Any doctor who mutilates a woman's genitals needs to lose their medical license and be jailed. Those who intend to carry out this procedure should not be allowed in the country if this fact comes to light before they enter.
In the meantime, whatever can be done to eliminate this world wide needs to happen, but our influence in other countries is limited by their borders and laws.
I see no good reason to try to set percentages of why this is done be it cultural, religious or some of each.
Cheryl Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- Any doctor who mutilates a woman's > genitals needs to lose their medical license and > be jailed.
you're damn right there. It cannot even be compared to male circumcision as the intent is to make sex painful to ensure 'purity' is maintained.
It is an active torture and should be declared illegal by the UN as every time a mutilated woman gives birth the torture is revisited by her wound being ripped apart and risking all the associated problems with blood loss and infection control in a large open wound.
declaring/recognising something as torture is not the same as legislating - this I know - countries make their own legislation.
But the UN like to think they matter so I believe they should be making more noise about this - they would if it were little boys getting mutilated so they could not enjoy sex, imo, but girls are still expendable in some patriarchal cultures and countries.
Those of us who are lucky enough to enjoy a level of equality should be doing our best to show newcomers how to respect that same equality. However, newcomers need to integrate to learn the ways of the culture they are entering, this is just one of the reasons why we need 'proper' integration of migrants, not just the creation of new ghettos. We also need immigrant children to attend mainstream schools, not a local madras (islamic school). Catholic schools manage to keep in line with the state curriculum, it is a pity that islamic schools in the west cannot - yet.
It was not so long ago that western society was misogynistic and women were treated as inferior, although not as inferior as those girls in cultures where FGM was and is still practiced. If we can change, we can effect change in newcomers but only if they mix with the established culture, which presently they (adherents of a certain religion) generally do not do.
There was an in-depth documentary on FGM last week on CBC radio. It was explained in great detail that FGM is cultural. It happens all over Africa and in the middle east and south Asia and is certainly not restricted to Islam. It is barbaric none the less.
Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > There was an in-depth documentary on FGM last week > on CBC radio. It was explained in great detail > that FGM is cultural. It happens all over Africa > and in the middle east and south Asia and is > certainly not restricted to Islam. It is barbaric > none the less.
Thank you, LR!!!
Your wise (and factual) words are muchly appreciated by me.
On this topic, unless someone has posted a repudiation here, it is, as far as we know, unrepudiated. That's kind of what the word means.
And in general, CBC is considered a highly reputable and professional news source.
It's not infallible. Neither is any other news source. That's not a reasonable standard for dismissing a story. An actual repudiation would be a reason to dismiss it, but we don't have one of those either.