I recall that the leaders of TSCC are gifted with the 'power of discernment'. If I recall correctly, this gift is bestowed upon bishops. Not sure if this is true, can anyone confirm?

If, indeed, bishops have the 'power of discernment' bestowed upon them, is this gift taken back when a bishop is released from that calling and becomes scoutmaster or SS teacher?

If that's how it works, it must suck to no longer be able to know who is fornicating with other than their spouse, using up bandwidth watching porn or violating the WOW.

I'm sure that all the stuff bishops learn about their wardmembers is also erased from their memories as well.

Is that how it works? Not every bishop climbs the ladder to Stake Presidency and beyond, right?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2017 10:18PM by csuprovograd.

I don't know about that, but the gift of the Holy Ghost as well as your priesthood automatically go away when you resign. It's similar to what happens when you don't pay your electric bill. You can pay a fee to have it restored.

I recall a primary lesson I had as a child about praying to find lost keys. The same week I lost my favorite toy (I must have been 4 at the time). Following the directions of the lesson I prayed to find it. In the end I never did find it. Somehow it took until I turned 33 to figure out the real lesson. Discernment works the same way. You have a good feeling about someone? Yu pray and it "feels" right? That is how so many people get conned. Back to the topic, anyone with the Holy Ghost should have the power of discernment (the power to be charmed by someone's mannerisms)

The "Power of Discernment" is the same made up crap to control people as "God sees everything" and "Santa is making a list of good and bad children." Ooooo, don't lie to your priesthood leader, because he'll KNOW!!!

It's also dangerous validation of whatever stupid thought comes into a church leader's mind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2017 10:06AM by Stray Mutt.

I work for a bishop. Dumbest person I've ever met. 45 yo dude who has no idea about much. Live in a rural and very small Utah town. Ancestry means much more than common sense. If he was blessed with the big 'D', he could actually know how to understand. A-hole...

I was always taught this and believed it. I figured it would be worse to lie and have the bishop call me out on it than to just tell the truth and deal with the consequences. Then one fine evening at tithing settlement when I was asked if this represented a full tithe, I decided to test it and said, "yes it does" as I looked him squarely in the eye. Of course I wasn't full, but he didn't flinch or go cock-eyed on me. From then on it was easy and in time I realized that these discerned men were not discerned at all. It's a morgi mind trick for the gullible.

Obviously not, cause I had to lie to my bishop in an interview to graduate from seminary. I looked like a good girl, so therefore he didn't think I was doing anything bad.
We also had a guy in our ward who was called to bishop, who had an affair with another woman in the ward, just a year into his calling. When they called him to bishop, a lot of people were stunned, including myself, cause I had seen him checking out some of the women in the ward a couple of times. Obviously I had more 'power of discernment' than all of the stake and local leaders who nominated him, because I knew he wasn't bishop material.
He ended up moving out of the ward shortly after, and I think he left the church as a result of that, so I guess something good came out of that.

I never heard of Mark Hofmann, the American counterfeiter, who is featured in this photo: http://www.utlm.org/images/newsletters/115/115cover_hofmannchurchleaders.gif

In fact when the entire Hofmann affair happened back in the early 1980's I heard nothing of it while living in California. I only learned about it in 2013.

My first impression on seeing the photo was that NONE of the men pictured with Hofmann had "The Spirit (or gift) of Discernment." I'm old enough in 2013 to have recognized and identified each of the 5 GA's in the photo: N. Eldon Tanner, Spencer W. Kimball, Marion G. Romney, Boyd K Packer and Gordon B. Hinckley. I know, I know, the kids today would have a tough time recognizing some of them. Nevertheless, I knew, I KNEW that if God spoke to them as true prophets with the mighty power of discernment that he would have told them all (or at least one of them) that Hofmann's document was a fake, bogus, a deliberate forgery.

But none of them had a clue. Dallin H. Oaks (an apostle at the time) even wrote an article in defense of the stupid Salamander etc.

I'm sorry LD$ church but this one incident alone proves that the elite General Authorities, yea the First Presidency and the Quorum of Twelve members, have ZERO special powers.

Now in contrast, I was just a lowly priesthood holding RM in Mormonville who has never been a bishop, stake president, mission president or of such high esteem in the ladder that can lead to a Second Anointing experience. I'm just me. Someone you've walked all over and kept the truth from so I'd stay in the church paying my tithes and giving of my time and talents for your advantage.

Oh, by the way my patriarchal blessing (PB) says I'm blessed with, wait a minute, you guessed it, "The Spirit of Discernment."

I remember listening to the lectures of Truman R. Madsen, the BYU religion teacher who spoke often at Education Week held at BYU and here in a stake center near me. In his recorded lectures on Joseph Smith he said Smith had all the spiritual gifts bestowed on him. In fact, said Madsen, Smith said to "Pray for the presiding Elder of the church that he might have the spirit of discernment." In other words, IT'S REALLY THAT IMPORTANT FOLKS.

For years I thought, "Wow, I have this wonderful spiritual gift." It made me feel really special. I kept it to myself and told no one of the contents of my PB.

So when I saw this photo of Hofmann and the 5 GAs for the first time my spiritual gift (albeit a simple task) kicked in to first gear and I was able to DISCERN that none of these GAs had any special gift.

Thanks PB for blessing me with the gift (sarcasm) so I could see that the 5 men in this photo have no special discerning powers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2017 01:34PM by jiminycricket.

You bring up something.....

Was the Hofmann incidents national news, or news only in Utah? It was a long time ago, but I don't think they mentioned it. I first heard about Hofmann while coming here to RfM for the first time.

Now, Evan Mecham was national news. He was such an imbecile, he deserved to be mocked and ridiculed. HOWEVER, I never ever heard the part about him being Mormon until a few years ago, here at RfM or some other exmo site. He was an idiot third-party fringe candidate who somehow won a muddled race, but I NEVER EVER remember hearing the part about his TSCC affiliation by the national media covering him. I didn't realize his buffoonery was a natural trait of his caused by the fact he's a severely indoctrinated TBM. Since there are fringe candidates here who appear on ballots repeatedly (though none thankfully have ever won) I thought he was just another one of them. At least I don't believe the fringe candidates are also Mormon as far as I know.

This is a simple case of the media NOT DOING ITS JOB. Afraid to offend certain groups. Frankly I think the weird connection between salamander letters and bombings (especially when you remember the Unabomber case) warrants scrutiny from the national media, but somehow it didn't.

I assume it was national news. Seeing THAT picture, with all those smiling bigwigs gathered around him, my shelf began to crumble, and I hadn't even been a member for that long.

I wondered how they could NOT see right through him. And of course, nobody at church would talk about it, and nobody else cared.

Even if God/Jesus/Holy Ghost didn't clue them in to exactly what Hofmann was up to, the supposed power of discernment should've had them sensing something wasn't quite right with the guy and/or his document. But nope. They fell for it hook, line and sinker.

According to my PB, I supposedly also had the power of discernment. I never quite understood what it was supposed to be. I couldn't read other people's minds. But I'm pretty good at detecting when people are being phony, especially spiritually phony. And I never could convince myself that I had a real testimony. I believed, but I never 'knew' for sure.

BTW, I'm a woman, so apparently this 'gift' wasn't reserved just for priesthood callings.

But it's all BS anyway. I didn't have any magic discerning power, and neither did they. Too bad I didn't have the discernment to figure out the church was fake until I was in my 30s.

I do believe that most people DO have the ability to discern to some extent, and it's called gut instincts. It has helped our species survive by sensing danger or safety even when we don't know why. I can't tell you how many times I had a bad feeling (or a good feeling) about someone, and it ended up being right. When I trusted that feeling, it was great. When I didn't trust myself the first time I thought something was 'off', sometimes it caused me pain or trouble later on.

As always, the church loves to claim credit for normal human abilities, or to make people think they have EXTRA abilities when they really don't. And, as always, if someone 'discerns' correctly, it's a miracle. But if they don't 'discern' correctly, they'll blame the person for not being righteous enough to receive inspiration.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 03:22PM by imaworkinonit.

Serving in bishoprics is the surest cure for such notions.

Once a bishop always a bishop is the way I heard it. So when they leave office they are still a bishop and still retain their super powers.

I was just a lowly woman but I quickly decerned that the stake present was bored with temple interviews and barely listened to the answers. After losing my faith,I got one more temple recommend in which I flat-out lied to every question. So much for his decernment.

So what happens, you may ask, when the 'power of discernment' simply doesn't manifest itself? When (say) a bishop simply can't pick up on bad intent or lies?

You might think that would pretty much wrap it up for such a concept, but no! Not a bit of it.


The good Bishop still does have the power of discernment. The reason it didn't work on that occasion is that God deliberately withheld it from him in order that the subject under scrutiny "might eateth and drinketh more damnation to their souls"

So if the power works ... the Church is true.
If it doesn't work ... the Church is true.

Heads they win, tails everyone else loses.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2017 01:11AM by quatermass2.

Haaa haaa haaa. The "Power of Discernment" is one of the biggest load of crap myths the church has ever come up with. Throughout my years in the church I "tested" it MANY times and it failed EVERY TIME!!

When your religion is fear based as opposed to love/god based, you can expect things like "You will be burned in the last days if you don't pay your tithing", or "If you don't go through the temple there will be no "families forever" for you", or "I can discern if you are telling me the truth or not". Just another LDS myth to be thrown into the crap pile.

I'm a female, and in my patriarchal blessing it said that I have been given the gift of discernment. I think the general membership are sometimes "gifted" with it, but yes it's bestowed to bishops and other higher ups to be able to discern if you're masturbating or not in the interviews. We all know how that doesn't work. hah.

There is a true 'Power of discernment' which, when used properly can guide your words and give you an almost intimate knowledge of what situation the person opposite is in

it's also used by spiritists, mediums, fortune tellers and other various conmen

It's called 'Cold reading', and - like all con tricks - can be learned

In the church they use a mixture of cold reading (where you dont know anything about 'the mark') and 'warm reading' (where you already know some things - like who is shacking up with who, and who is not paying their tithing)

of course, whether you call it 'discernment' or 'spiritism', it only works on the gullible