I'm retiring soon. We will likely go to live in Utah temporarily, where DW actually is pressuring me to buy a home and settle down. I told her that, No. 1, I will seek some concessions upon retirement, anyway, and No. 2, if I go live in Utah, some of the concessions will be quite hefty.

Things I have told her:
- I will never go to Utah County again, save for passing through on I-15;
- I will never go to Orem or Provo again, unless a health or automotive emergency forces me off of I-15;
- I will never, ever set foot on BYU campus again; and
- I will never, ever set foot on Temple Square again, or go shopping in Shitty Creek Centre.

The major concession for living in Utah will be to win back at $0.50 or even less on the dollar, so to speak, vis-à-vis my mission, to partially make up for the time I wasted by going on my mission. In other words, 6 months to a year by myself somewhere, doing something important and meaningful to me. Yes, it will be all about me. But what should I do during that time? Any suggestions? (My original plan was to do Peace Corps for an entire 2 years, but they have turned me down because they don't hire people who have worked in any intelligence capacities, thanks to what CIA did to Peace Corps back in the 1960s.)

Things I have thought about:
- 4-month logistical gig in Central Africa for Medicines sans Frontiers (challenging, long, long days, and sometimes dangerous, maybe too much for an old man, but they agree I have the qualification);
- teaching English in Taiwan (have any of you done this?);
- just living somewhere in Ireland for 6 months (where it's easy to get the long-stay visa--and yes, I've already checked);
- staying 6 months in some other country, so long as a long-stay visa is available (Italy maybe, or Germany); or
- something else you might suggest.

Any ideas? Dead serious here. I'd like it to be one of two things, either challenging and altruistic, or, quite the opposite, totally chilled--like taking lunch and beer in a pub along the waterfront in Galway or on a hillside in Umbria, day after day after day until I get tired of it (which, to be truthful, is quite unlikely--that I'd get tired of it, I mean).

I don't have any suggestions but I'm very interested in hearing the ideas from the board. I will not be moving to Utah but I am close to retirement and looking at opportunities.

The only suggestion I have is to split the time up: work, then a well-earned play.

You can do both, and in different areas of your choosing.

Do you mean retire, do something challenging, then follow up with something light?

Yes, sorry that I wasn't clear.

You sound motivated to help others using your skills. You also sound as if you would benefit from the freedom to relax. Flex both muscles for balance; deny yourself neither. It's your retirement and there's no law that limits you to only one of these things.

I suggested the work first, but only so that you could "wind down" from what might be a very tense and demanding work experience. That might be an error, as you may need some time off first, then work, then back to a more sedate pace at home. It's all about your needs and desires.

And remember that everything is negotiable. You may gain further "concessions" at a later date (more "you" time). You might even split the current concession time up - do one thing, come home, then later use the remainder as the mood (or need) strikes you.

Now that I've written this, I have started thinking about an Italian phrase, "il dolce farniente," or literally, "the sweet doing-nothing." So maybe that's what I need all along, a good trip somewhere that involves new sights and beer and stuff.

I admire your desire to go make up for your mission wasted time.
But I can't really offer any advice...it's your life.

I will say that if you go teach English in Taiwan, I'll look you up for a visit :) We just signed a big deal with HTC, and I'll be going there monthly for the next year. So if you go there, the pot stickers are on me :)

My uber-TBM stepdad wanted to move from SoCal to Utah to be "in Zion with the Saints." Then he planned to retire there.

So he (and mom) moved. Two years later, he bailed and moved to Montana, then later retired to rural south-eastern Washington. Because he couldn't stand the people or atmosphere in Utah -- and he's a hard-core mormon!

Good luck with your choices, cludgie. I'm sure you'll enjoy whatever you choose more than you enjoyed your mission!

Monthly? From the states? You'll be forever jet-lagged. You'll put your eye out!

I only thought of Taiwan because I would never go to real China, and I once could carry a decent conversation in Chinese, and the only characters I ever learned were classical, not short-form. I hear Taiwan is a pretty great place, and would really love to see it before I, you know--before I run down the curtain and join the choir invisible.

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Monthly? From the states? You'll be forever
> jet-lagged. You'll put your eye out!

:)

I used to spend 3 weeks a month out of the US -- Europe, Japan, China/Taiwan, Australia on an ever-changing basis.
I learned to handle the jet lag, but there were times I had no idea where I was or what time it was :)

> I only thought of Taiwan because I would never go
> to real China, and I once could carry a decent
> conversation in Chinese, and the only characters I
> ever learned were classical, not short-form. I
> hear Taiwan is a pretty great place, and would
> really love to see it before I, you know--before I
> run down the curtain and join the choir invisible.

It is a pretty great place. Lots of people speak at least some English, many speak it well. Food is amazing. Culture is wacky but not so unfamiliar that you'll go nuts. Few if any mormons! :)

There's no way, I'd pick Utah over Ireland or Europe. Ireland is very nice, plus you're near the channel, which is a 70 minute ferry ride to the European continent. They also speak English, so you don't have to worry about learning a new language ( conversational).Most people in Germany speak English, which is nice too, and you'd be even closer to other European countries than Ireland. Belgium has better beer than Germany, unless its Southern Germany and wheat beer ( my tastes)
So,going by your list, I'd pick those
What about Canada?

I was thinking of the other Ireland, the one that is between the Atlantic Ocean and the Irish Sea, with England to the east.

If you're considering the retirement haven of southern Utah, it still has some good values though the real estate prices continue to climb it seems monthly.

Hurricane and Washington are still more affordable than St. George is, and quieter. They all have 55 and older communities to choose from. Everything is 'close to shopping' there. To be closer in to medical facilities, St. George is preferable to the outlying suburbs. They're all within a short drive of each other.

For climate and cost of living, southern Utah is better than anywhere else, Utah.

As for traversing the globe, I'm not as adventurous as you are. I prefer staying closer to home.

It's a beautiful place, and I love all the pictures of the lovely red canyons with desert streams, but it is seriously low on water and too high on development.

Move to Moab, Park City, or Salt Lake City and Mormon's won't necessarily be the majority. For what it's worth.

I lived in Ireland for a year and LOVED it. I would suggest the West coast and I would also suggest going during Spring Summer time of the year (even then it could rain the whole time but a lot less likely than in the winter where you are guaranteed rain the WHOLE time and NO sun, very depressing.. Fall is hit or miss, can be really nice or can rain the whole time).

I've traveled a ton and the other place I LOVE is New Zealand. If I had the time, money, and health to travel the far again I would go to New Zealand. Amazing country, friendly people, great food, clean air, clean water, clean, clean, clean! Great public transport, cheap. Awesome esp. if you love the outdoors, which I do.

You can WWOOF (Willing Workers on Organic Farms) if you want to go ultra cheap. But again I'd recommend NZ for this. In New Zealand there are 1,000 listings for their small country! So that means you have a lot of choices and the farms are competing for you rather than the other way around. When I did this in other countries (including Ireland) where there weren't many listings the work conditions were sometimes not great, too long of hours, not enough time off. But in NZ, you work 4 hrs a day and get the rest of the time off and a day off a week as well.
Even doing it a couple of weeks is a good way to meet local people, get to know families and the area, get free room and board. Also very low population there so that's also really nice.

If you have any issues with your lungs at all and are sensitive to smoke I would NOT go anywhere in southeast Asia. I went to Bali a few years back and it nearly killed me. I had NO idea how terrible the air quality was there! They burn all their trash, often in piles (mainly plastic bottles) on street corners at all times of day and night (worse in the middle of the night, it would have me up with coughing fits), and then there is just air pollution for the traffic (lots of 2 stroke engine vehicles makes it much worse), industry, overpopulation, and then there is a lot of cigarette smoke, incense.. just everything burning all the time. There is like no relief from this. So again be warned! I had no warning, not even on trip advisor and I even went to small towns and by the sea side and could not get relief at the sea side either!! It's very serious! So please take this into consideration.

Good luck!

PS- on my Bali trip we stopped in Taiwan and all you could see out the airport windows on both legs of the trip was grey smog filled skies. Worse than Bali. Taiwan and China have the most serious air quality issues, likely in the whole world right now. So again I would not recommend Taiwan for that reason. It was so bad that my lung issues (that felt like some bronchial infection for my whole stay in Bali) cleared as soon as we left the airspace of that part of the world. I mean while on the plane (not great air to begin with), my lungs cleared and what had felt like an infection was just gone, like that, as soon as we were far enough away from Taiwan, heading back to California).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2017 02:01PM by shapeshifter.

That's probably why they always seen to wear a mask around their lower face. I thought it was just to prevent them from catching a disease , colds,or sanitation issue

Africa. Why not.

Maybe Good Africa--Namibia, South Africa, Botswana, Zambia... Some of the most interesting places in the world. You're right. I'm not for returning to the only Africa I've known, with bodies on the side of the road, and such.

If you are looking for a charity with which to volunteer or to just write a check I can't tell you how impressed I am with Mercy Chefs. They came to my town after a tornado in January. 38,000 meals served in a two week period and not one single word of blather about politics or religion.

Ireland is lovely, especially Co. Galway where my second cousins live. But it is expensive to go as an expat, my husband researched it.

I have been retired(in addition to plain tired)for almost 20 years. My main focus is on my medium format film photography which I find challenging and satisfying. My best advice is this.Study your options. List and prioritize them 1 through 10. Then pursue the one you have chosen with religious fervor so that you, not someone else are happy. Life is DAMN short! Live it your way.

Good advice! Literally, you're right: I'm precipitously close to 70; actuarial tables bet on me living only about 12 more years. Life IS short.

This evening, I was lying on the cool grass, watching my little grandchild play with the dog, with the setting sun shining onto her curly hair like a halo, and thinking that this moment--and so many other moments like this--are what life is all about, for me. All my life, I wanted children, more than anything else. Everything was for them--my education, my career to support them, my absolute devotion--so I would always be there for them. I had a lot of adversity. I had been tortured and beaten as a child, and I always had to overcome my terrors, and the sense of isolation, that comes with PTSD. I had a brief temple marriage to thug who beat me, and after 14 months and many ER visits, I divorced him, and got all the blame for being "flighty." I married an old boyfriend, whom I thought had finally grown up, but he had not. We had children, and after that, I got an incurable disease, which will caused me pain, for the rest of my life. My husband abandoned us, completely, and has remained a stranger to us all, ever since. I worked very long, hard hours at my career. The Mormon cult didn't approve of single divorced working mothers (or any other females, for that matter), and the cult members bullied me, and abused my children. When my children and I left the cult together, our lives changed dramatically.

I know what you mean by wanting "concessions." I think this will be a good thing for you to do, Cludgie. There are many ways to do it, as other posters suggested. Aren't you married? You might not want to leave your wife for months at a time, but you could take short jaunts to visit destinations here in the USA. Make a hobby out of finding deals, collecting sky miles, etc. Look into getting time shares. Traveling in America is safer than most other places, right now. Ireland sounds wonderful--so go there, but for a couple of weeks, and not 6 months. Then, you can go to Italy too, for a couple of weeks. Go both places!

I have had much, much more than "concessions" for being tortured in the cult, and all the other awful things. When I feel good, I go on short trips, usually to the California coast, where I used to live. I visit my brother in Seattle, and another brother who lives in Sonoma. We have also been on side trips together, to Canada, Catalina Island, Yellowstone (to stay at our relatives' ranches near there), and New England. We've been to San Diego a few times, as it is less expensive than San Francisco and New York--but we had to go there, too. We drive, mostly, and fly and rent a car, if it's too far. This is how it's been for us--about two trips a year, with whoever of our kids wanted to come along.

I'm not yet retired, but I feel I have more than made up for the lost time in church meetings and rehearsals, and doing both the mother's and the father's jobs, and working all day and coming home and lying in bed in pain, until the next day of having to do it all again. Tonight was one of those nights with no pain at all.

If you learn to steal the moments, you will find joy. Learn to love solitude. After a bad day, I take off up the canyon with my dog, for a while. People like to go fishing, golfing, camping, canoeing. My son and his family likes those razor vehicles. We share a cabin up in Brighton.

My point is--I'm getting all this wonderful pay-back time, right here in Utah! My children all live within a few blocks of me, so I get to see them all the time. I can also help out. I still work, and won't retire for several years. I do volunteer work for research for the disease I have. Great improvements have been made in treating the condition, and in managing the pain.

It was especially fun to take back time--and money--from that hoax cult. Not one more dime! We won't do business with Mormons, because they pay tithing to support that cult. So, of course we don't go to City Creek Mall. We don't go see the Christmas lights on Temple Square (we know of places much more Christmassy than that). Like Cludgy, we don't go to Provo or Orem. My kids had to play some sports on the BYU campus, and they hated going there. Funny, that we have the same consessions as Cludgie, and we live right here in SLC.

Sorry to ramble. I feel that the kids and I made our statements, had our rebellion, enjoyed pay-back, kept our "concessions", while happily living in Utah. It can be done!

Yours is good advice, too. All this is giving me perspective. I love solitude, to the extent that I may like it too much, to an unhealthy degree. Still, I love being alone in quiet nature. I have pondering buying about 10 acres of what they call "recreational property" somewhere in the West, hopefully somewhere where there is juniper forest and sage, then setting up a glamping tent and watching the stars and birds--then eventually building a cabin-style tiny home. I really think I can do it.

Ok, I'll just say it. NEW RULE: Anyone who purposely moves to Utah deserves what they get. No coming to the board with tales of woe about living under theocratic control surrounded by the residents of Stepford.

Cludgie

I second the New Zealand recommendation. Never had a better vacation...closest thing to it is Norway. San Francisco Bay Area distant third. Don't move until we can walk the canal trail together....

Gatorman
Close game-tense for an old man's heart

New Zealand would be ok if your a sheep fancier ....(if you get my drift) Us Aussies love to stir the kiwi's about sheep

I think those points about Utah County are right on. As for plans, go to Taiwan. Great place, great food, amazing culture.

There's no way in hell I would ever live in Utah. That place has an extremely bad aura overall. It also has bad Karma. Not a good place for humans to live. It's like living in an emotional and spiritual toxic waste dump.

Myself, I'd live somewhere in the PNW. If hubby wanted to come and visit, fine. I would refuse to live in any mormon settled place ever.

Ireland sounds good to me. I am a fan of the Bachelor/ette TV series. I especially love to see where they travel to. A couple of seasons ago (Kaitlyn's season) they spent several weeks in Ireland, filming. I was amazed at how much there is to see and do there.

One thing that you might consider is to spend summers in Utah and winters someplace warm and less Mormon-y, such as Arizona or Florida.

If you are used to being busy, it's best to formulate a plan. My brother *must* keep himself occupied, so he developed several hobbies in his preretirement years -- gardening, woodworking, and golf, primarily. He also used his professional skills on an extended project (to help a friend's family) in central America. But that is over with now, and I think he is pleased to have finished it.

As a friend of mine stated, she loves retirement because you can do what you want, where you want, when you want. But only you can decide what that will be.

Good luck, Cludgie! Let us know how your plans develop. I have 6-7 more years to go. I can't wait!