I was already teetering on the brink, learning the truth, and asking myself some serious questions, when I was called to serve in a Bishopric as a counselor.

The fact that I was called at all, put a serious dent in my confidence our leader's inspiration and "promptings of the spirit".

Prior to this, I was the model member and one of the prizes of the Ward. You know the type. The ones who always gave such overly pious, aggrandizing, solemn, talks, lesson, testimonies and I enjoyed the approving looks, attention and praise. Yes... I was THAT guy.

However..as I learned more and more I felt myself bogged down. I couldn't decide what I wanted to do..or even if my questions and doubts were even real. In some weird way I was hoping that my brimming apostasy would be found out, just to have a sign that the "spirit" and the "holy ghost" actually worked. When I received my call, a part of me was still hanging on, hoping that maybe if I saw how the church really worked from the inside, I'd have my doubts and questions answered.

I quickly grew comfortable with our bishop. I honestly believed that he was a good man. He had a light hearted, affable personality. We are still good friends today. I grew comfortable with opening up with him about some of my difficulties. He placed a hand on my shoulder and said, "Everyone is struggling. Barely 40% of the ward and stake is active. Fewer than that pay tithing. Most of the youth that I interview don't have a testimony at all and are just trying to keep peace in the home. Most of the marriages are unhappy ones."

He rattled off couple after that were having serious marriage problems. The Ward Mission Leader, The Relief Society President, The Young Men's President's wife was having an affair, and on and on and on.

I was just numb. Everyone looked and seemed so...NORMAL. I felt I was the anomaly, but here I am finding out that I was the norm. Most of the people were just as miserable as I was.

I then blurted out, "Bishop, then what is the point of it all? Why do we even bother?"

After a moment of silence, he just sighed and said, "We just try to make the members feel as close to God as we can, and we serve them as best as we can."

It didnt take much longer for me to unburden myself from feeling conflicted and miserable much longer..within a few months, I was completely out.

How many of you have had similar experiences? I felt like once I got a look at what was behind the curtain, I found that there was..nothing. No divine guidance, no great inspiration. Just a bunch of cold, arbitrary rules and a handful of men telling people to just endure and obey it all. What kind of life is that?

First, let me say I think your bishop is a rare treasure in mormonism...honest and caring. Not something experienced very much in mormonism.

I almost had an experience similar to yours -- except that the calling was refused.

I was largely inactive, but hiding it (when people asked where I'd been, I'd tell them I had been attending a singles ward in another stake, which they gladly accepted, because they thought it meant I was interested in a girl there -- this was just a few months after returning from my mission).

A friend of mine who'd gone on a mission a few months after me was home, and I went to my "home ward" to see him and hear his "homecoming" talk. Big mistake.

The bishop cornered me, pulled me into his office. Asked why he hadn't seen me, and I gave him the excuse above. He bought it. Then he said he had been inspired to call me to teach teens in Sunday school, as he thought I was the perfect person to help the boys prepare for a mission.

If there was any doubt before, it was erased right then: these guys weren't "inspired" at all. I sat and thought, right then and there, if I was capable of lying to kids, selling to them a church I didn't believe in, and convincing them to do a mission that I had felt was a complete waste of two years.

The answer came swiftly: no.

So I told the bishop no.
I told him why -- that I didn't believe a word of it.
And that I wasn't going to lie to kids and pretend I did.

He sat there open-mouthed for a bit. Started to say something about my family, about my "outstanding mission service," something about losing the blessings of the temple...

I didn't let him finish. Told him again I didn't believe any of it, and wouldn't be taking any callings, and probably wouldn't set foot in a mormon church or temple again as long as I lived.
And that was the end of it.

They excommunicated me "in absentia" (and without even telling me) six months later. I didn't care. :)

Welcome to freedom, honesty, and reason. Come on in, the water's fine.

I was at USU and almost totally inactive. I only went to church occasionally for social reasons (usually a girl I was trying to date). The bishop or branch president snagged me for an impromptu interview and called me to be the elders quorum president for the summer. I chuckled and said, "Sure, why not." They had no idea I was a senior and would be gone. Inspired calling, my ass. So they set me apart right then and there, and they never saw me again.

That's a great story!

Inspired my ass indeed. My situation was something similar.
After reading the "hidden" church history books, and hearing a lesson at a single adult FHE (final nail in the coffin for my doubts with the church) I tried to slowly transition out of it - which was hard since the bishop was my home teacher (and like a second father to me) and I lived with two HARDCORE TBMs.
I would go visit my young baby nephew and go to events out of town every now and then to avoid sitting in church and listening to people proclaim about how the church was God's only church on the face of the planet, and how honorable Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, etc. were.
I would get text messages from vvarious members asking me if I was going to be in church or if I needed a ride (I can't drive since I'm disabled), and when I would tell them that I was visiting family, their response would be, "We miss you here/We miss seeing you in church."

Some time later, the second counselor calls me on a Saturday, while I'm on my way to visit family saying that he wanted to talk to me about a calling. At first, I thought, "What makes them think that I could commit to something like that. Aren't they aware that I'm not always in church?" and then I knew that THAT was the reason why I was being "called." Because they thought that a calling would keep me in. So yes, inspired my ass.

*Sorry if anything is misspelled. I'm writing all of this through my cell phone.

The church really excommunicates people just for not believing? That is one of the things that does it for me. They are going to cut you off for thinking.

The church (leadership) needs to just be honest with itself and accept that it needs to lose about 80% of its nominal membership. The small core remaining would be vastly poorer and less influential, but committed to the program.

My husband's good friend, who was also a co-worker, got called to be bishop of his ward. Two months later, he told my husband that he was resigning not only his calling, but his membership because he was so angry that he had been lied to. He didn't go into detail about being lied to because he didn't want to ruin my DH's testimony (who was still TBM at the time).

"didn't want to ruin his testimony"
This is such backward thinking. So if your friend had invested in Bernie Madoff's scam fund and through getting a peek at how it was really operated decided he had been lied-to and sold out of it, why would he refrain from telling his friend who was also being scammed? I suppose no one wants to be the bearer of bad news, but is avoiding ruining the illusion more important than exposing the truth?

There is also the point that LDS tend to shoot the messenger rather than consider the merits of the message." You know, Bro. X used to be such a spiritual, good man and now here he is spreading all of this anti stuff. It's a real shame."

anonski21 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> He rattled off couple after that were having
> serious marriage problems. The Ward Mission
> Leader, The Relief Society President, The Young
> Men's President's wife was having an affair,


He betrayed those people's confidences????
How HORRIBLE !!!!!

If that one is still your friend, be careful!

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anonski21 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > He rattled off couple after that were having
> > serious marriage problems. The Ward Mission
> > Leader, The Relief Society President, The Young
> > Men's President's wife was having an affair,
>
>
> He betrayed those people's confidences????
> How HORRIBLE !!!!!
>
> If that one is still your friend, be careful!




This was pretty commonplace. Basically, anything that was discussed in the bishop's office among the counselors and exec secretary was fair game, as long as it stayed inside there

They violate the clergy/parishioner privileged communications all the time. There is nothing off limits to the personal info shared, before it's broadcast to the entire ward and beyond.

It is a betrayal of trust and confidence in the Mormon clergy. Only most of them don't care unless it profits them personally to keep a confidence. They have no training as clergy or counseling. When it comes right down to it, that violation is one of the worst, if not the worst, the cult has going.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They violate the clergy/parishioner privileged
> communications all the time. There is nothing off
> limits to the personal info shared, before it's
> broadcast to the entire ward and beyond.

"Clergy/parishioner privilege?" This is the big downside to the boast, "we don't have professional clergy." LDS bishops (and others) are neither trained, licensed, nor accountable.
>
> It is a betrayal of trust and confidence...

There is no code of ethics, professional standards, or assumption of "trust and confidence" to betray. At 10% of your gross, you sure don't get what you pay for.

They have bishop training sessions. I don't know what they comprise

over my gay boyfriend was really eye-opening. It took me a while to finally leave. It was a long process, but whatever beliefs I had were shattered at that time. I'm still in shock all these years later.

When my gay husband was ex. sec. and cheating on me, the bishop kept trying to get me to come in and talk to him. I DID NOT WANT TO. I very seldom talked to bishops once I got married. I finally did. He told me that my husband would be one of the next 2 bishops. I immediately went inactive hoping that if I was inactive it wouldn't happen as I was NEVER going to talk to leaders about him being gay again. We waited until he was released and then he went inactive, too.

I, too, was in a bishopric when everything came crumbling down. The only difference was, my bishop was a true piece of work. He and his wife had pumped out a dozen kids and he was the epitome of church broke.

I already had doubts, but I had to sit in on several "disciplinary" councils and one in particular did it for me. She was an 18 year old girl, completely inactive, but had started dating an RM who boinked her, felt bad about it, confessed to his bishop and then convinced this poor girl that if she wanted to marry him, she had to confess to her bishop. There she was, scared, sad, embarrassed and being asked sordid details by the Bishop with 3 other men in the room...no women. She was a mess. I held my hand up to interrupt the bishop, told him she needed a minute, walked her out into the hall and kept walking with her out to her car. I told her to go and to not worry about coming back. I told her that if there was a God who gave a rats ass about any of us, that what she and her boyfriend did was minor and all ready forgiven. The bishop was livid. I was released the next week and stuck it out for another year or so for my wife's sake. Haven't been back to church in two years.

That is a great story. At least one person in that room felt the sort of mercy Jesus might have.

You are a wonderful person. You did EXACTLY what that poor girl needed.

My Man!

Here is an internet badge of Courage when it Counted for you!

Wear it proudly!

TJC, you the man!

You saved that girl that day, and maybe even yourself. :)

Integrity!
These are the actions and attitudes (doing the right things)
that cause people of integrity to be disciplined by Church Inc!
Way to go, One True Church!!

Kudos to both anonski and TJC. Courage, honesty, compassion, are all traits of truly outstanding humans. I salute you both!

deja vue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kudos to both anonski and TJC. Courage, honesty,
> compassion, are all traits of truly outstanding
> humans. I salute you both!


I concur!

Saving souls. Good for you!

Bishopric put major damper on me, too. So many instances of failed inspiration that shook confidence.

Like Stray Mutt's story, I remember telling Sister Jones the Lord had inspired me to call her as SS teacher. To which she replied that their family was moving from the ward in a week.
Thanks, Lord.

Then there was the young temple married couple - wife was screwing a non member. I'm thinking excommunication, since temple is serious commitment, but after kneeling and praying, bishop and 1st counselor say just no sacrament for a month. Huh?

A few months later as I'm moving from ward, the woman was now pregnant by that guy.

Hi Anonski21, a concern for me, is that the bishop shared confidential information with you. Even a bishop's counselor shouldn't hear privileged information without the affected person's consent. You should NEVER have been told of an affair. Of course, Mormons violate this right to privacy all the time with Ward Council, Priesthood, and Relief Society leadership meeting.

If I share something personal with my Protestant minister, that minister is under obligation not to share such information unless there's a law being broken (e.g. child abuse) or reasonable intent to harm (e.g.) I'm going to blow up a building. A confession of depression, an affair, gambling, etc. should be considered as a private counseling session between the clergy and the individual. Best wishes, the Bishop's Boner.

On the old membership cards, there was all kinds of personal and compromising information. For a young membership clerk, it was a real eye full.

The new Branch President in my former ward has no fucking balls, dominated by a gossipy wants-to-know-it-all wife and an even worse daughter who wants to prove her self worth over anyone else (fat lazy cow makes up names to take to the temple and fraudently claims beneifts so doesn't have to work, thinks of herself as little miss molly mormon).

Over past few years, before he was called he served in BP and then as EQ President, anything that was said was fed back to the two of them. I had them come up to me several times as clerk and they'd ask me something about the minutes I'd produced. My reply was why are you seeing that, you were not involved in the meeting and should not be seeing this. Can only think now anything that is said in BP office during church meetings will be fed back to these two bitches by lunchtime. No privacy or respect, they need to know everything apparently.

Honestly, I will have no sympathy when these three are dead. World will be so much better without them.

I've been a clerk twice. I think it was being the membership clerk (which I did really, really poorly) was the thing that initially got me questioning. I've been a branch president, but I really liked that. The branch was only something like 30-35 strong, anyway, with only about 20 attending. It wasn't half bad. On the other hand, I didn't actually know anything about anything. And the church was kinder back then, not playing hardball like they do now. I was urged when I did tithing settlement to tell a person who hadn't paid that it was now a new year, and not let it affect things like their position in the church, etc. And I never signed a temple recommend because there wasn't a temple for a couple thousand miles, and back then people weren't required to hold a recommend just for the sake of having one as proof of one's devotion.

anonski21 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I was just numb. Everyone looked and seemed
> so...NORMAL. I felt I was the anomaly, but here I
> am finding out that I was the norm. Most of the
> people were just as miserable as I was.

This is the big secret of Mormonism. Everyone is trying
desperately to "look and seem normal." The fact that so many
exmos are now public has broken the idea that everyone is on the
same wavelength. Apostasy isn't just for a few "nut-cases" any
more.

One of the best ways I think we're going to get the honest people of the world to decide for themselves whether Mormonism is true or not will be to better present the "normal" viewpoints vs. the "nut case" viewpoints.

For example, the "nut case" Hayflick limit theory vs. the "normal" prophecy of Woodruff about NY/Boston/Albany that is so common sense.

Another is that "nut case" idea that the earth might end up having a temporal existence of 7100 years or more when the sacred doctrine in D&C 77:6 says its just going to be 7000 years total.

The best way of course is when the anti-Mormons try to claim that the Church isn't completely honest on their history, statistics, and finances. It's really super easy to prove the anti-Mormons as "nut case" people on this. For example, have some missionary or leader send you by email a copy of the May 2017 revenue/expenses, assets/liabilities, and cash flow reports for whatever combination of US State, Country, or other region you wish (or globally) so you can find out for yourself if its a truly honest Church or a dishonest one. Of course its got to be honest to be called the "true Church" :) And when an investigator pores through such financial reports (and statistical/historical reports/records) and comes away thinking "gosh what an honest and transparent Church" then the anti-Mormons will look like "nut case" weirdos.

"I felt like once I got a look at what was behind the curtain, I found that there was..nothing. No divine guidance, no great inspiration. Just a bunch of cold, arbitrary rules and a handful of men telling people to just endure and obey it all. What kind of life is that?"

SO. WELL. PUT.