I was talking about travels in Europe with my TBM father and he said that one of their (my parents) most favorite things to do was visit all the amazing cathedrals and basilicas. He went on about how beautiful and intricate the architecture is. BUT...he couldn't just leave it at that. He made sure to belittle Catholicism and emphasize that 'we don't believe in their religion'. How is it that I can't have ANY innocuous conversation with my TBM parents, such as traveling abroad, without them inserting some kind of arrogant Mormon bullshit into it??? Happens.Every.Time.

It's been the church's "doctrine" since the very first, explicitly stated in "Mormon Doctrine" (but since downplayed), that the Roman Catholic church is the "great whore of Babylon" mentioned in Revelation. According to mormons, it's the "church of Satan," which corrupted "true" christianity, and is the reason Joseph Smith had to come around and "restore" it.

No matter how much they downplay the old doctrine, it's what most members still believe. Roman Catholicism corrupted god's true church because of Satan, and Joseph Smith restored it. Catholics are the enemy.

^^^^ this ^^^^

"Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the Church of the Lamb of God and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to that great church; which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth." (The Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10)

"The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon...." (Orson Pratt, Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, "Divine Authenticity," no.6, p.84).

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness." (Pratt, The Seer, p.255)

"Evil spirits control much of the so-called religious worship in the world; for instance, the great creeds of Christendom were formulated so as to conform to their whispered promptings." (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.246)

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christiandom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common orgin. They belong to Babylon." (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p.324)

I find it interesting that Mormonism has never attacked Orthodoxy with the same vigor as Roman Catholicism. Orthodoxy claims 2000-years of direct Apostolic Succession through its bishops and patriarchy.

Orthodoxy views Roman Catholicism as a breakaway from the one Universal church, and it also sees Protestants as part of the Roman apostasy. There is an explanation of this for anyone who visits the Greek Festival in SLC. A placard shows the Orthodox churches as a straight line. The Catholic Church breaks off with a slanting line. Off that slanting line are the Protestants and Mormonism!

Recently, I took a shuttle ride with a wonderful man who was of Greek descent. We talked a lot about his heritage, including his Greek Orthodox faith. He mentioned to me the great Roman heresy of the "Filioque" clause. I told him I was familiar with it and that some Catholic theologians had called for its removal to promote unity between the two faiths.

The Daughter of the Great Harlot's Son's Boner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2017 02:17PM by BYU Boner.

I would say even Catholics don't understand Orthodoxy all that well. It's like it's this great "other" that you know exists but you don't quite comprehend. Catholics don't disrespect the Orthodox, however. At least that has been my experience.

Perhaps, Horny Joe and his minions were unfamiliar with Orthodoxy as the great immigrations from Eastern and Southern Europe hadn't started in 1830s America. It's possible that the early Mormons hadn't met any Greeks, Russians, or other Orthodox individuals and were unfamiliar with Orthodoxy's claim of Apostolic Succession.

As we all know, Mormonism is a product of the American Second Great Awakening and has been heavily used influenced by Restorationist Movements (Cambellities), Methodism (Piety and personal conversion), and Presbyterianism.

that it's an offense to Christianity in general.

He's a hireling of Satan and covers the whole gamit.

Is the minister still a part of the endowment video?

It's my understanding that the minister is no more. The minister used to show up, and Satan would say that he'd pay the minister to preach to Adam. (Long before my time, Satan would ask the minister if he studied the dead languages--because one cannot preach without proper training. The temple patrons also used to sing a Protestant hymn. Satan used to offer the minister a specific sum of money that was outrageous for the time).

Then, the minister would say to Adam--Do you believe in a God without body, parts, and passions; whose circumference is everywhere, etc. Adam would respond that he couldn't believe in such being, but was waiting for further light and knowledge from his father.

Elohim and Jehovah would then send Peter, James, and John down to preach "the gospel" to Adam and to all of Adam's posterity.

The minister was basically a straw figure for a Presbyterian cleric and the "do you believe" bit, a corruption of a teaching from The Westminster Confession. Horny Joe was greatly influenced by Presbyterianism as were members of his own family. The sum of money implying that the minister only really wanted money.

I'm told that there's been some modification to Satan's lines since the minister is long gone.

The legacy of this is that TBMs view ALL clergy as corrupt, without conscience, and trying to lead people astray. My own wife turned her back n my pastor as my mother's funeral because she didn't want to acknowledge his proper role as a spiritual leader for the funeral.

Here's the text from the web prior to 1990--

LUCIFER'S PREACHER

[A preacher enters.]

LUCIFER: Good morning, sir!

PREACHER: Good morning! [Looking out over the initiates.] A fine congregation!

LUCIFER: Yes, they are a very good people. They are concerned about religion. Are you a preacher?

PREACHER: I am.

LUCIFER: Have you been to college and received training for the ministry?

PREACHER: Certainly! A man cannot preach unless he has been trained for the ministry.

LUCIFER: Do you preach the orthodox religion?

PREACHER: Yes, that is what I preach.

LUCIFER: If you will preach your orthodox religion to these people and convert them, I will pay you well.

PREACHER: I will do my best.

LUCIFER: [Indicating Adam.] Here is a man who desires religion. He is very much exercised and seems to be sincere.

PREACHER: I understand that you are inquiring after religion.

ADAM: I was calling upon Father.

PREACHER: I am glad to know that you were calling upon Father.

Do you believe in a God who is without body, parts, or passions; who sits on the top of a topless throne; whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere; who fills the universe, and yet is so small that he can dwell in your heart; who is surrounded by myriads of beings who have been saved by grace, not for any act of theirs, but by his good pleasure? Do you believe in such a great being?

ADAM: I do not. I cannot comprehend such a being.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2017 07:54PM by BYU Boner.

Here's the new, revised text without the minister--

Oh God, hear the words of my mouth.

(As Adam prays, Lucifer approaches from behind out of the shadows.)

LUCIFER: I hear you; what is it you want?

(Although Adam has already encountered Lucifer in the Garden of Eden, he fails to recognize him at this appearance.)

ADAM: Who are you?

LUCIFER: I am the God of this world.

ADAM: You, the God of this world?

LUCIFER: Yes, what do you want?

ADAM: I am looking for messengers.

LUCIFER: Oh, you want someone to preach to you. You want religion, do you? There will be many willing to preach to you the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture.

ADAM: But I am looking for messengers from my Father.

(Adam and Eve turn, and walk past Lucifer, who follows behind. The scene changes to a view of the Celestial Kingdom, where Elohim and Jehovah stand, conversing amid tall white pillars. They are radiant as before, and their voices resonate as they speak.)

ELOHIM: Jehovah, send down Peter, James and John to visit the man Adam in the Telestial World, without disclosing their identity. Have them observe conditions generally, see if Satan is there, and learn whether Adam has been true to the token and sign given him in the garden of Eden. Have them then return and bring me word.

Penis envy.

I think one additional reason is that Catholic services are ritualistic like LDS ones are, just different modes.

I have heard the 'great whore of Babylon' notion before. I just find it sad and sort of comical that he couldn't praise anything Catholic without tearing it down. As if he were going to be in trouble with the powers that be for saying anything nice about something Catholic related (they sure do make beautiful buildings). More proof that tssc teaches their members to hate.

They wanted money and backup for Prop Hate(8) in CA. Then they sucked right up and went all buddy buddy. One thing I know that is true when it comes to LDSInc. They will USE anyone.

Because it claims to be the continued church that Jesus made. I for one like the ritual and beauty of the buildings. My father was Catholic,but the only time I ever went to mass was when I was active in the church. Now it just seems silly.

The Mormon's false belief in the "falling away" implicates Catholicism as the "corrupter" of the gospel. Also, they're jealous as hell of all the attention the Pope gets. Monson is supposed to be the world's leader of religion. It just ain't fair.

I don't think it is the attention they are jealous of. I think it is the $$$$ ;)

Partially it was a carry-over of 19th century American Protestant prejudice against Catholic immigrants, mostly Irish and German in Smith's time and even more so during Brigham Young's reign. Some of this came from Europe with English Protestant early settlers of various denominations, and got worse with the influx of Irish immigrants due to the terrible potato famine. Ever hear of the "Know-Nothings", a 19th century political hate group opposed to Catholics, Jews, and African Americans?

Joseph Smith was just echoing what was general Protestant sentiment against Catholics in his time and place. But all the mainstream Protestant religions gradually moved on from this and became more accepting. Mormons kept up the overt hatred much longer and more or less carved it in stone.

I do not think Horny Joe knew anything about the Eastern Orthodox churches to hate them, those immigrants came later towards the end of the 19th century.

I don't think the word hate is what it's about. It's more about being right and everyone else wrong re: religion.
It's a lot like battling football teams in the South!
They each pray to win, but someone still loses!

It's typical human behavior to be distrustful and remain separate from people that are different. We still see it everywhere we go. Some group doesn't like another group; ethnic, religious, skin color, etc. It's a constant in humanity. And it's constantly fed.

The idea that we are all alike and it's Ok to be like someone who is different still remains a conundrum for humanity in general.

I believe they are probably more favorable toward the mafia.

I thought I could talk to my TBM mother about my trip to Italy.

Her answer: "Of all the places on earth that's the one I'd least want to visit. The people are so Godless there. Why didn't you go to a nicer country if you're going to spend that kind of money?"

I'm sure you love your mom and all but she just dismissed the entire Renaissance!

Actually Italy is a pretty religious country.