So, I have been out of the morg for over a year. Divorced my TBM, but it would've happened had I not left anyway. Long story short, she was typical narcissistic personality disorder, maybe BPD. Very manipulative, controlling, etc. Glad I left.

Anyway, I have been dating a woman for almost 6 months. Last week, it was my kids' turn with their mom, so I didn't have my kids. She didn't have hers, as her daughter was with her grandma out of state for a week. We have been seeing each other as time permits, but never more than a few days a week, and never in a row. We thought it would be a good chance to spend time together a few nights in a row. I went over Wednesday. Spent the night after work on wednesday, thursday, friday and saturday. By the end of the 4th night, Saturday, she was acting very annoyed. She hardly talked to me. Wouldn't hold my hand. There was a driver on the road that was swerving in and out of lanes, so I gently tapped my horn twice to let him know I was passing him so he knew i was there. She got mad at me for honking my horn. We tried to go see a movie, and every time I asked her what she wanted to see, she would say, "I don't care." I just had the crappy feeling that she was annoyed with everything I was doing and was bothered by me. Sunday morning I woke up next to her and I was super sick; body aches, fever, etc. She also acted annoyed because I told her I wanted to go home. Which was okay because she was working all day anyway.

The reason I ask this, is because we have been talking about moving in together. I know it's early, and it's a big decision, but it has felt right up until now. I have had some doubts, but they have been small.

Yesterday she asked why I was acting so distant and I told her I felt like I was annoying her. Especially on Saturday. She told me that she was just tired. To be fair, her step brother died last week. But she said she wasn't close to him and didn't want to talk about it with me at all. She hadn't seen him in many years and the family kind of didn't talk. So I had to pretty much pretend it didn't happen because she didn't want to talk about it.

I was married 14 years. I used to tell my wife I was 'tired' to get out of talking. What do you think? Was she really 'tired'? If so, it scares me that this will happen again. She says she's tired pretty much all the time. I don't want to feel this way all the time. I need some input.

That woman sounds a little bit like a pain in the butt. I'd consider carefully before moving in with her.

I'm just guessing, but...

She may have gotten used to being alone. And might really like you, but still after a day or two start to feel like you're an intrusion into her "routine" of being alone. Something she might not have been ready for.

Then again, she may have been "offended" by something (probably not the horn-honking, I imagine) you did but that she kept to herself. That she pulled the "I'm just tired" excuse rather than talking about how she felt, did the "I don't care" response to the movie, etc. might indicate she's not open talking about her feelings (or, at least, to you). Danger sign? Maybe.

Like I said, I'm just guessing. But it sounds like she's got some baggage -- her ex might have been a real jackass, and she might not know how to relate to men on an open, honest, level -- in which case some patience and time may pay off. Or not.

Good luck.

6 months is too short of a time to move in together. A year is the bare minimum and even then there is no guarantee.

As far as her stepbrother dying, death sometimes affects people in odd ways that they're not willing to admit to anyone else much less themselves.

In your place, I would try a few more sleepovers several days in a row to ascertain if this is her normal mood (maybe she felt you were intruding too much into her space? who knows?) or if it's because of extenuating circumstances. Ask her if she wants to talk about why she was annoyed and irritated with you, if she doesn't want to talk or keeps acting that way, give her enough space to figure out if she wants to be in a relationship that leads to cohabitation or not.

I hate to admit this, but she has acted this way before. On a number of occasions.

But is it typically once a month? Some women can be absolute terrors when PMS hits, especially if there's other underling medical and/or psychological issues like endometriosis, PMDD, BPD, depression, etc.

Thought of this, but it doesn't correlate. At all. :(

I just want to be sure you understand when and how PMS works, so she's not like this around 7-14 days before menstruation?

If not, then you just have to kindly confront her on this if you want to understand what's going on. Press it and if she's not willing to talk to you about it, is that something you're willing to deal with this person? Your other options are walking away or simply putting up with it.

I understand it very well, and have tried to correlate it with PMS, believe me! But, it doesn't. It doesn't correlate to anything really, there's just random times in which she just acts completely annoyed with my very presence. Most of the time, it's after we have spent more time with each other. I know I have the option to deal with it. But, it's six months in! Shouldn't we still have some fire? I feel like we've been married 10 years, which is not a good feeling.

Maybe after a few days, she does feel irritated that you're intruding into her space and routine. I'm a very routine oriented person in that I need a few hours in the morning and afternoon to decompress and be left alone. If you really care about this women and want things to work, you're going to have to press and ask her what it is she really wants. If she can't give you an answer, then it's time to give a lot more space to her and consider your other options. Love is not always enough. If she's not willing to divulge why she gets so irritable with you, that's setting you both up for an endless cycle of irritation and spats that build up resentment.


You wouldn't believe the nonsense about PMS and menstruation I hear/read, so I just wanted to be sure.

It doesn't sound like it would work, to be together 24/7.

DH and I have been married for 25 years, and are very happy. We are both retired. We decided a long time ago that we each need our own space and time to ourselves.

After the kids left, it was possible for us to create both separate bedrooms and separate offices. We each have our own bathrooms, too. We sleep better when we don't share a bed. This isn't to say that we don't still have time for - ah - cuddling. We do. But for actual sleeping, it's much nicer to have separate spaces. He is a morning person; I'm not. By the time I wake up, he has had time to shower and shave, maybe have breakfast with a buddy, or run errands.

Once I'm up and at it, we have time together for shopping, laundry, a movie, or whatever.

My boyfriend and I tried living together and there were problems that made it worse like the fact he got a giant German Shepherd for me to take care of all day as he now could get a dog. I'd just lost my dog and I like small dogs. We argued a lot over his dog. Now she and I get along fine. She is HIS dog and has been from day one and I was in the way.

BUT when he traveled to CA to work 4 days a week and I stayed with the dog, he and I got along just fine.

So now he lives close. I learned from living with him before. He likes things HIS WAY and I'm the type that doesn't like conflict, so when we lived together before, he wanted to tell me what I could put in the house. I couldn't change anything except put up my computer and hang my clothes up in a separate closet. I couldn't even use HIS bathroom. He then asked me later why I didn't use the other sink in his bathroom and I reminded him.

Now he wants to live together again. ha ha ha ha Not happening. I'd disappear.

I think she was probably just tired of having you around. Maybe take it 2 days at a time for a while. Maybe you'll never like living together again. I doubt I will. I like to have my space, too. I could live with someone if they were willing to give and take, but my boyfriend is territorial. My therapist told me to write up a list of what I expect to change if we were to live together and he said that would probably end the discussion. Yep, it would.

As for what movie. Do you ever make it difficult for her to go to a movie she wants to see? My ex and my boyfriend are that way. I go to their movies and sometimes we go to my movies, sometimes. I watch them alone. My ex and my boyfriend then ask why I didn't take them or have them watch with me. Same with TV.

So I hope you are letting her see movies she likes and that you dn't make her feel like it is a sacrifice. I'm sure it can go both ways. I'm too much of a people pleaser.

I may end up living with my boyfriend after we both retire . . . AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

As far as the movie thing goes, it's our first movie together. Not because we don't want to, but we both work and we finally had time. I told her I'd go see whatever she wanted, that I was cool with any movie. I'm not one that forces her to watch anything. In fact, we always watch her shows. I really don't mind though, not a big TV watcher anyway. It was just the way she was making it difficult and seemed sooooo bothered by me.

Lots of red flags there. Sounds passive aggressive. You shouldn't be made to feel like you don't know if you are doing something 'wrong' or not. Yes something else could be bothering her, but she should TELL you, not act like a bitch towards you. That is NOT COOL at ALL!!!

I would definitely NOT move in together. Yes 6 months is not a long time, but doesn't mean it couldn't work with the right kind of relationship. I am with my partner now for 4 years and we moved in together after about 6 months, well maybe a year, don't remember exactly and that worked out. But it was a sort of natural unfolding as he just kept spending more time over my place and was essentially living with me before he moved in and didn't get rid of his place until maybe after a year so that there wasn't that pressure on it.

What worries me more than the length of time you've known her is what you are now experiencing from her. Moving in together is likely to make things worse in your case, not better.

As since you haven't been out of your marriage for that long and you were married to someone with all those issues, it would be best for you to take some more time to yourself so that you can avoid repeating your unhealthy marriage all over again with a similar type of person.

I had a bad marriage with an abuser and then went from him to another and another and another until I finally had enough and started to wonder what is wrong with ME that I keep attracting and being attracted to jerks (always thinking they are SO NICE at first!).. I was ready to look at myself more closely to see why I had that attraction. So I went to therapy for 2 years, did not date during that time at all. Was the first time in my life I was on my own that long. Well I would like to say I was 'cured' and did not date another jerk, but apparently I needed ONE MORE lesson. So I had one more heartbreak, shorter lived this time, less than a year, but probably the most upsetting, as I had really thought I had gotten it right this time, that this guy was at least a 'nice' guy.. but no, not yet.

After that I lived in a black hole for a few months and then slowly emerged. Didn't go to therapy but found therapies for myself. At the time I felt I intellectually knew what was wrong and talk therapy had helped with that, but I still wasn't getting it emotionally so I guess that's why I didn't go back to therapy at the time…

However I did then really swear off men and relationships. I was truly ready to be on my own and not care about that. Even though I had that 2 year break on my own, I was still wanting to meet someone and have a relationship. I didn't want to be on my own.

But after that last heartbreak, I was finally in a place, ready to look after myself and my needs and not care about someone else, or needing them to fulfill me in any way.

This actually led to me meeting my current partner. About a year later, when I was feeling in my power, living life on my terms, doing things I wanted for myself.. we met, just while both doing things we loved and we only gradually became friends and gradually more. I had my guard up a lot but that was good for me. I was so used to jumping into things.

I blame TSCC for that.. I had learned to 'feel' if something was right or not, and not logic it through.. so I was always ignoring the warning signs, just seeing what I wanted to, wanting things to be 'true' in the face of all of the red flags. I just kept those blinders on, as I had been trained to do and would not see the things I needed to.. Plus I had a terrible example in my father of what to look for in a man and also a terrible example in my parents in what to look for in a relationship. And I had been trained to submit to men and put myself last. And I had been trained to find my 'one' 'soulmate' and 'true love'.. I had a lot of issues because of my upbringing and only partially aware of some of them.

I still have issues from my past that I am working on sorting out and this recovery board is one way I am doing that. Even seeing that my parents were bad examples for me and that I had issues with not being able to choose men who would not abuse me.. I did not look closely at the influence of TSCC in why I kept playing out those bad relationships and roles..

I am in a good stable healthy relationship now because I finally was able to raise my standard on how I needed to be treated. I no longer NEEDED a relationship and I did not expect one or look for one, I just took care of myself the way I needed to. Once I was able to do that I was in a position to accept and expect no less than that from others.

From my perspective reading what you wrote, that behavior is NOT okay and is Bull shit! You don't deserve that, but YOU need to KNOW you don't deserve it. And so you won't then put up with it, excuse it, be attracted to it. It's hard to let go when you feel an attraction to someone and a connection, but you have to remember to look after yourself and not limit yourself like that to people who will mistreat you.

I had truly thought there were just NO GOOD MEN (or the good ones were taken) and so I put up with LESS THAN I DESERVED because I thought I HAD to. But that wasn't true. It was because I couldn't SEE the nice guys, because I was still attracted to assholes. It was MY issue to work out. And once I was able to NOT NEED the relationship then I knew I would NEVER allow myself to be mistreated again. I STILL won't and my partner knows that. He knows that he can't now start treating me badly and I will stay for fear of being alone. I know I can be alone and I know being alone is preferable to being mistreated and being 'gaslighted' (like it sounds is happening in your situation), so there is no way I am going back to the psychological abusive games. No way.

So good luck to you, hope this helps.

Helps a ton! THANK YOU!

You're welcome. I meant to add that Yes, it's possible she is used to being alone more and is not used to that much company. (since it sounds like she started to act weird the longer you were over)… everyone gets annoyed with each other's company sometimes and that can be normal. And yes she could be grieving as well.

HOWEVER what I think is a red flag is her inability to communicate that to you. And maybe you also need to make it clear that you need that communication. Communication (especially HOW it's approached.. i.e. calmly, kindly, caring-ly) Is really everything. And if you don't have that figured out yet and have to do guess work instead then you should definitely not be moving in together yet.

You just should not have to be guessing like this, esp. if you are talking so seriously (moving in together), often there is guesswork early in relationships until people are more comfortable with communicating more openly.. but again I don't think you are at a place where that should be happening, where you have to guess what is going on and feel badly as a result. So if you can't figure out to communicate your needs and her to communicate hers maturely and with mutual respect than I just don't see things working out well.

Also one thing I noticed about myself with past relationships that weren't working but I didn't know it yet. I tended to have to constantly ask for other people's opinions about what was going on. I was very much worried and dissatisfied much of the time and I couldn't have a conversation with my friends without bringing up my relationship woes,, to the point of near obsession. I was definitely what you'd call a 'love addict'.. So the biggest difference I noticed with my current relationship and the previous ones is that I never felt the need to talk about it with my friends. And I also noticed I wasn't talking about it in terms of 'how great' it was either. It IS and WAS great, but in a really steady, peaceful way, without the drama. Before I was always caught up in this drama in my relationships and I lived for the highs, so I talked about those a lot too, but the lows were very devastating and ultimately really destructive.

Anyway not saying you shouldn't come here for advice or ask others.. just saying that sometimes the fact that you feel the need to ask is your answer already, know what I mean?

Wow, Shapeshifter. What you wrote is helping this recovering human being; thank you so much for sharing as you did.

Let it be. Everyone has had a bad day or bad week and you may have just gotten that one week. Try again another time, if the pattern repeats than there might be something to get concerned about.

It sounds to me like she's an introvert. She may have simply needed some solitude to recharge her batteries. Especially if she'd had a death in the family recently. It may have had absolutely nothing to do with you. My suggestion is for you to read up on Introversion before you get too worried.

For OP, I'm glad you allow her to watch TV and movies she wants to see.

My LONG TIME therapist just remarried in December. They do live together. He is probably 59 or so. He said that they are the exception to the rule, that many couples don't live together these days. He said do what works. I've been in my relationship for 12-1/2 years and I've learned what works. My boyfriend and I are both introverts. We both NEED TIME TO OURSELVES. We need space.

You work at it. It takes time. Somehow, some way he and I have found what works. Relationships take work all the time.

I agree that she might have been an introvert that needed time to reset her emotional soul. Some people don't like a lot of togetherness.

That being said, if she can't communicate her need for space to you or if her need for space conflicts with your need for togetherness, you probably should wait to move in together. I don't think she handled it well. My DH sometimes acts toxic because he wants to be left alone and believe me, it is NOT fun. She needs to learn to discuss with you how much alone time she needs, not resort to emotional walls to get that space.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2017 09:18PM by CA girl.

While you are in the "dating" phase... it doesn't have to be exclusive.

It's only exclusive when you get engaged.

Just like gramma used to say... there are lots and lots of fish in the sea.

With her... see if her mood changes and it passes... if it does not... time to grab a pole... and date several at once, especially at the beginning.

If she has reason to believe that she is in an exclusive relationship with you (which is very probably what she DOES believe unless you and she have, in the recent past, agreed otherwise), then you should not date anyone else until after you and she have talked together and you have told her (NOT "HINTED"!!!), with spoken words, that you are going to begin dating others.

She has a right to know this, and to discuss it with you before it happens. (The same as would be true vice-versa, of course.)

Your words sound to me like your relationship is winding down, which is what incompatible relationships are SUPPOSED to do (especially before lasting commitments, or major financial decisions, are made). If so, do it honorably, and do it with respect to her, and with self-respect to you.

Posted by: jdoubledub ( ) date: June 27, 2017.
"I hate to admit this, but she has acted this way before. On a number of occasions."

I hate to tell you this, but that bodes ill. It ain't going to get any better, unless (maybe) if she agrees to seeing a marriage councilor.

Best Wishes,
P

Yeah, it doesn't bode well. I don't want to start counseling this soon into a relationship!!!

I think you have your answer.

I wasn't going to comment but it bugged me last night so here it goes.

Do not go to couples counseling if you can't get along with your girlfriend of six months. That is a waste of time and money. Just get a new girlfriend.

What you see is what you get. She has already shown you who she is. Is this really what you want out of life? Moving in would likely make her behavior worse, not better.

In your shoes I would consider moving on. You can do better. There are a lot of single women out there. You have choices.

Early in a relationship it should be free and easy, not a pain in the ass ... move on.

like it or not, but we have a tendency to gravitate, do the things that we have always done - despite trying to change (divorce). Is this a case with your current lady friend? Does she seem like your ex?

Many people have given you advise about the woman you are seeing, so I will skip that.

But your timing is terrible. You have kids, and they need you, need more time with their dad. Especially to counter what you described as your ex. You shouldn't be moving in with anybody for a few years. And once you find the right person, this person and your children should have a good relationship.

Very, very important that they are comfortable with the person you have a relationship with. And that takes time.

I am not against living with someone else, just this is way too fast. Get to know yourself as an unmarried man for awhile, get closer to your kids.

There should be no rush. You don't have to live together to be a couple. Me and my guy have been seeing each other for 9 years, and we still don't live together. Spend weekends, vacations, etc, It really works out fine.

Once you have a strong, HEALTHY relationship with someone, wait at least 2 years and she should have a good relationship with your kids. Have a few LONG vacations and staycations together over this time, before ever moving in together.

Give this relationship a lot more time before you move in together. You need more weekends together. That's one tiny advantage of being divorced when you have kids. Try and arrange it so you have every other weekend with no kids. Spend those weekends together. Pay strict attention to what she's telling you about herself. Especially the unspoken words where actions speak louder then words.

Advice I repeated to my kids like a broken record when they started dating: When someone tells you who they are, believe them the FIRST time. If the same pattern keeps repeating itself, you need to listen to that and take it very seriously.

Since you have kids, I would also suggest you spend a lot of time with her and your kids together. If that doesn't go well, end it. Anyone who can't get along with your kids is going to be a nightmare for the rest of your life. There are people out there who can and will love and care about your kids. They're a major part of the picture. Don't brush that aside.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2017 11:39PM by janis.

It's Borderline Personality Disorder Opie ~

get some of that good good sexors ~

keep her at arms length ~

do not catch the feels ~

It seems she's dropped enough clues that you already know that things are not right in your relationship.

She's emotionally distancing herself. Maybe she liked the novelty of having a romance with you but is not up to the challenge and responsibility that goes with having a day to day real life relationship.

If after being intimate in bed she wants more distance instead of feeling closer to you, right there is enough indication to me she isn't up to the task of true intimacy. It may have nothing to do with you at all.

She may be tired with being a single mom and has other worries besides her relationship with you. Children should come first if there are young kids still at home. Maybe it would be the right relationship if the timing were different?

Based on what you describe there doesn't seem to be enough glue to keep holding you two together at this time. It would be wise to keep dating other women, and give her the freedom to date other men. Because it could be as simple as incompatibility why you don't seem to enjoy each other's company 24/7. Maybe you'll make great friends, just not housemates.

You need to let her make the next move. If she is "in to" you, she will, and it won't take long.

If you don't hear from her for a couple of weeks, you need to learn how to say, "No thanks...I'm tired."

/minor snark

Whatever her issues, you asked her politely and directly, and got nothing. Were it merely fatigue, an honest adult would have said, "I'm tired, but feel like I need to entertain you. Can we just go home and veg? I wanna sleep for a week."

And to that, you would have said...?

Something accommodating, I'm fairly sure.

I kinda sorta get the feeling that she was looking forward to or needed "down time," but ended up "performing." That's important; for whatever reason, she couldn't be forthright, and here you are, seeking that input from strangers.

Lady needs to learn how to communicate her needs and desires, especially in difficult situations and times. Her lack of openness is not YOUR responsibility.

It is your choice to accept unhealthy behavior or not. Maybe she was suppressing grief about her step-brother, maybe missing her daughter, maybe not even aware of one or the other, but giving you a cold shoulder is not okay. Since this seems to be her habit, it sounds like she could do with some couch time.

You're not a piece of furniture. Don't allow anyone to treat you like one.


Signed,

-A lady who used to pull the same crap, pre-couch time.

Not a lady...although you asked for a woman's response, I'm going to anyway.

At the very least I think she is trying to test you and maybe--just maybe--pushing enough to get you to drop her. Maybe it's a self-destructive thing, I don't know, but she wants you to get pissed off enough and leave the relationship so she doesn't have to. Or because she is just self-destructive that way.

At worst, she has someone else she's seeing or wants to see. And, again, wants you to end it rather than her ending it.

I hate to say it but I've done this before. The latter, I mean. Creating a conflict or sense of disinterest to make the other person move on. So I didn't have to tell them it was over. Sometimes it's been intentional...but sometimes I just could not disguise what I was feeling and to the other it was apparent.

I would just flat out ask her if she has lost interest. Either she will say "yes" or hem an haw. Either way, smile and thank her for her response and move on. If she tells you "no" and professes her love, stick with her. And try to find out how you can be a better partner (and truly seek to understand what you are lacking or how to improve...and do what is necessary if you love her.)

Don't move in until you've been able to communicate about this issue. If she can't talk through her feelings then you don't want to enmesh your lives with one another.

If she refuses to talk about it at all, ever, then I would dump her and move on.

All relationships require mutual respect, mutual trust, and honest two-way communication. If both parties are not committed to working on those three things, you're doomed.

She doesn't sound like she'll make a good partner in the long run, but if you're inclined, give her a little patience and time to see if she's indeed "testing" you. When I first met my beloved husband, I was 60 and was terrified that I was going to make a big mistake. I purposely looked for every fault I could find, even contacting ex girlfriends to get dirt on him, and looking up his past records. I rejected beautiful gifts and gestures from him. I was terrified to become dependent on him because I didn't want to be hurt and rejected. My sweetheart persisted with much love and one night, I realized I was hooked and could not live without him. I felt SO sorry for all the criticism and hurt I had inflicted on him in the early months of our relationship. I never do anything of the sort now. I only love and support him. He's everything to me and I wouldn't be cruel to him for any reason, ever. We lived together for a year and finally took the big step and married. Happiest day of my life. Been married two years now and the fire just gets hotter. Good luck finding the right one.

My stepdaughter used to invite friends to spend the night and then she'd treat them with rudeness and indifference to the point they were happy to go home. Right now she is on her fourth husband (all whom she treated horribly) and is looking around for someone new.

She treated her children the same way.

I agree with Ziller.

People tend to make the same types of choices over and over again in their lives--whether those choices work or not.

I suggest you think about how you felt with her that weekend compared to how you felt when you were having a bad moment with your former wife.

If I were you, prior to proceeding in this relationship, I'd want to determine if I were attracted to the same type of woman as my former wife.

As a third party, what you've said sounds similar to me.

I wouldn't touch this relationship with a ten-foot pole. If you are already having this kind of distancing going on now, how about day after day for years. ugh.

Possibly would be good to see a GOOD therapist and get some of your own baggage dealt with before getting into another close relationship yet.

There's no way you were in a marriage with a destructive person for years without some baggage happening, and most likely the lady you are seeing has some unaddressed baggage as well. Not good, especially if the response to your mentioning it was to claim too tired to talk about it. Not good at all; recipe for prolonged pain and loneliness.

When, after just six months, you are having to psychoanalyze, rationalize, and just wear your brain out, it is time to go. The relationship dimension of the kids have not even entered the picture yet, correct? That will be even worse if the partner can't communicate. Walk away from this one now.

Some more thoughts about this. Let's say your lady-friend IS an introvert, used to her space and controlling her environment, so that sharing that space is a big deal for her.

Let's say she's not controlling and manipulative.

There are some things to look at that you MIGHT be doing since you come out of a patriarchal culture that tends to cultivate lack of true intimacy:

If she asks your advice or help on something, do you assume she's asking you to take charge of her project, fix her or whatever she is working on, etc?

Do you compliment her as often or more often than you criticize her?

Do you habitually criticize others to her? If you do, she may assume that you are also criticizing her as ruthlessly.

If she shares her opinions or feeling with her, do you
1. Turn what she said into a pun or joke?
2. Tell her she should not feel that way?

Your OP didn't sound like that's the kind of thing you do--if anything, it sounded like maybe it's the other way around.

But if you are doing these things, then yeah, having you around is going to irritate her. And time will only make it worse.

Learning to communicate together respectfully and lovingly, sharing with joy the deep things of your lives makes a long-term relationship, a full-time relationship, worth all the work of adjusting to living with another person, growing and being youself, learning to forgive all the natural human dumb things we do, etc.

If it's not pretty fun and joyful to be together, why do it? Get a dog. (or cat, or even a goldfish).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2017 10:07AM by relievedtolearn.

relievedtolearn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If she shares her opinions or feeling with her, do
> you
> 1. Turn what she said into a pun or joke?
> 2. Tell her she should not feel that way?

I like to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, but I agree that these are most definitely these are something that requires self-evaluation.

My ex-husband used to turn EVERYTHING I said into some perverted or lame joke over and over....and over...When I would try to talk to him about issues, it became a never ending tussle of dismissal, minimization, denial, and indifference. He never took concerns very seriously and it definitely was one of the key factors in leaving him. I simply did not want to talk to him about my concerns anymore because he was not interested in actually listening. This has been an issue to varying degrees with many men I've been involved with and one of the reasons I had to realize why I had to become blunt- Playing nice or being gentle with feelings doesn't get you much of anywhere when an issue becomes a cycle.

itzpapalotl, this is probably going off topic, but yeah, do I hear you.

Conversation? Nope. More like quicksand, or fencing. You end up putting up walls, and then you feel guilty because you are no longer the open-hearted, fun-loving person you used to be, or wanted to be.

There's a term "intimacy anorexia" that this pattern is part of, I think. Not fun. =(

She was some other guys wife.. long enough to have kids. She is the same person. So are you. You are now experiencing HIS wife and her personality. She is experiencing your ex wife's husband.
Nobody ever really changes. You will both be exactly who you were with your spouses. Exactly. Because it's always the spouses fault it went wrong.. isn't it.
Focus on yourself and your own kids.
She doesn't need you.. you don't need her. Your kids do. Move in together in a motel once a week.. leave your kids out of it til they're grown. You will have fewer regrets.

My greatest fear as a mom was that my sons would end up with a woman who treats them as you are describing.

Luckily, they didn't. And neither should you!!!

Yeah.