This sounds above and beyond crazy but could it be true? I was told that in Costa Rica less than two years ago, the ZL's were assigned to read all of the missionaries mail before it was delivered.

If true that is an amazing scary paranoid possibly illegal turn of events. I wonder if it was just this mission or if it is a new directive. Does anyone have further light or knowledge?

Or did they steam it open and glue it back shut so the mishies wouldn't know?

Did they not deliver the non-faith-promoting stuff?

I asked that and they said it was all delivered opened. I've never heard of anything like that and find it hard to believe that the church is geting that desperate.

During my mission, a nevermo girl that I dated only once, right before I left for my mission used to send me some pretty steamy writings. I find it hard to believe than a ZL or AP would've read that stuff and still sent it. I'm sure they would have held onto it for their own, shall we say, "enjoyment."

I'm willing to be that somewhere in all the paperwork, the mish signed away rights.

Also wondering if you are in other countries, the laws protecting your mail might not exsist?

Just like in Nazi Germany.

Censors there would cut out all "offending" comments from letters.

My g-mother said she used to get letters from relatives in the military and they looked like Swiss cheese after the nazi censors had a go at them.

It's strange, but in many countries there is an astounding lack of postal services, and in a few countries none at all. So the LDS church subscribes to parcel services, like FedEx, in some of these places, and then you deliver your letters to the ZLs or others to go into the parcels. I suspect that they could easily have a mission rule that your letters first be read. Some of the more Nazi-like mission presidents would find no harm in this. (I've even known of some mission homes to refuse to deliver items to the missionary, and the missionary would have to wait until an on-site conference in order to retrieve anything that may be waiting--medications, new clothing, a needed pair of shoes, whatever.)

On my mission we had the Italian Post, and it seemed to work fine, and we sent and received many a letter and parcel. Certainly if a missionary is in any country like this, he or she needn't send a letter through the mission home. That would be just plain stupid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2011 08:45PM by cludgie.

My relatives are just that stupid! My nephew is on a mission in Northern Italy and my TBM sister and mother email everyone with the mission address for "all" of his mail...

On the mission in the Philippines we got mail through the "pouch" system described above. People in the states would send a letter to some place in S.L.C. and then we'd get it several weeks later. I sent letters through the Postal system there....never had a problem. I never thought that people could just send letters to my apartment. I'm sure it would have worked fine.

In the next mission over the senior missionaries opened letters to make sure the US elders weren't getting extra money from their parents. We were discouraged about spending extra money too, something about making the local poorer elders feel bad. Even then in my pretty delusional days I would not have stood quietly by if they opened my mail in the mission office.

I wonder if there has been a little confusion on reading mail. In my mission, Australia,in the late 80's, the APs would read the weekly letters that the missionaries would send to the Mission President. They would highlight any information that they deemed worthy of the president's time, and then he would take it from there. The mail from home was sent to the office and redirected, but it was never messed with. I think what took place in our mission was even worse as many missionaries I am certain shared personal things with the pres, thinking it was only being seen by him.

Wow...really? I would have found this to be intrusive, since the APs were in no position to read those letters (at least from my perspective).

In my mission in California in the early 90s, the letters were opened by one of the office secretaries and put on the mission president's desk and he only read them. (I know this, because I opened the letters for the 6 months I was in the office and I did not read them...figuring that if I wanted some level of privacy, I should grant the same for the 180 other missionaries).

I was in the Costa Rica San Jose Mission in 1987-88 where the Mission President, Mervyn B. Arnold set a private policy that the Zone Leaders are to open and read the mail of any missionary receiving mail from anyone of the opposite sex living within the mission boundaries.

I personally witnessed a missionary's mail being opened and read by a Zone Leader without the missionary's knowledge or consent. I was a District Leader reporting to that Zone Leader, and that Zone Leader was handing off the mail to me for the missionaries in my District.

Before this, I did not know of the policy. When I saw the Zone Leader opening the mail, my jaw almost hit the floor. I asked him what he was doing. He said he was opening and reading the missionary's mail, because the letter was from someone of the opposite sex within the mission boundaries, which is against the rules.

When I told him to stop, and I pointed out that it's illegal and an invasion of privacy to open and read other people's mail, he said it's the mission rules, and that I could follow up with the Mission President if I had a problem with it. I told him I would do that, so I immediately contacted the Assistants To The President (the AP's, they are senior to the Zone Leaders and report directly to the Mission President) to schedule a time when I can talk to the Mission President. I also informed the missionary in my district that his mail had been opened, and that he should talk to the Mission President to discuss why.

I met with one of the Assistants to the President, who reiterated that it is the mission rule for all Zone Leaders to open, read and report all mail received from anyone of the opposite sex living within the mission boundaries. The Assistant to the President warned me not to make waves on this, implying that I was getting myself into trouble. I told him I will discuss it with the Mission President.

Shortly thereafter, I received a call from the Mission President, Mervyn B. Arnold. I received an over-the-phone shout-down from him for at least half an hour, where he attacked me for 'stabbing my leaders in the back', 'backbiting' and 'going outside the chain of command'. He told me he was aware of the letter-opening, it is mission policy, it is his policy, and he praised the Zone Leader for doing what he was instructed, praised the AP's for supporting him, and attacked me for interfering with the inspired instruction of my leaders.

When I again stated that the policy is illegal, he became hysterical and screamed things over the phone like 'Gods laws are greater than our laws!', and gave some example of speeding or some other traffic violation which would be OK if a General Authority felt inspired to ask it. He screamed that I was doing a great disservice to the Elders in my district because if there is any such mail in the future, they are much better off to have the Zone Leader screen it, rather than calling the missionary in to the Mission Office and making him open, read and explain the letter directly to the Mission President, which he said is the only alternative. Still screaming, he threatened to send me home, and/or transfer me to another mission, and/or demote me to Junior Companion, if I ever question my leaders again.

Very shortly after this, I was removed from my District Leader position, and demoted to Junior Companion to the Zone Leader I had argued with in the Mail incident. Ostensibly this was because I proactively told the Zone Leader that there was a woman at church who I was having trouble dissuading from aggressively trying to flirt and making unwanted physical contact with me, and I had suggested that maybe it would be wise to transfer me out before she creates a problem (I was clear that nothing ever happened, I was just having trouble convincing her to back off). However the demotion to Junior and assignment to the same Zone Leader I argued with in the Mail incident (in a location still very nearby the female pursuer) seemed like an obvious reminder what this was really about.

Some related items to be aware of:

1. The Costa Rica San Jose Mission (including Panama at that time) had various other rules which were also completely out of line, if not illegal, all on order from the Mission President including:

a) The Office Elders confiscated the missionaries passports, visas, immigration cards and other related documentation and kept them in the mission office.

Note: This resulted in my being arrested, hauled off the street and handcuffed in the back of a pickup truck, threatened and interrogated by the Panamanian Military in a windowless room, during the US standoff with the Noriega regime, which is one of the worst experiences in my life. When I wrote the Mission President detailing the arrest and requesting my documents, I received a similar shout-down and threats of being sent home. Later on, he had the Mission Office send me (and other missionaries) photocopies of our official travel documents, which is pointless because they are not accepted as valid anywhere.

b) The Office Elders confiscated some missionaries checkbooks, credit cards and other financial instruments and kept them at the mission office, for missionaries who repeatedly violated the mission rule which restricted their budget to $185/mo in 1988 dollars. This was $65/mo less than the amounts we were told to budget in our initial Mission Calling papers (we were told we should expect to spend $250 a month), which did not mention any restriction of access to our own money. (Note, after the Mission Office made mandatory deductions for Book of Mormon fund, Bike Repair fund and Travel fund, the missionaries only had $160 for all other expenses for the month). The Mission President dictated it to be against the rules to cash any checks outside the Mission Office, and then only allowed the missionaries to cash 1 check per month through the Mission Office, and then declared it against the rules to receive any checks, money or even to pay to have your photos developed through the mail (ie. any cash flow going across mission borders... although some people just ignored this with regards to the photos). He also had his Finance Elder(s) track check numbers and amounts, and the Zone Leaders would report any incoming commercial parcels, to detect anyone in violation of the budget. Anyone in violation of the budget received repeated shout-downs and threats to be sent home, while various rumors circulated that violating the budget rule was the cause of some specific early returns.

Note: I was transferred out of my position as Branch President and again threatened to be sent home, because I spent some of my own money to buy a Christmas Tree and Snacks for a Christmas party that I held in my branch. Only after my weight had dropped from 175 pounds down to 135 pounds (I'm over 6'3" tall) causing absolute panic in relatives who would not back down with the mission office, I was finally allowed an extra $25/mo for food during the last few months of my mission. (Remember folks, for less than $1 a day, you too can keep a missionary from starving to death...)

c) The Office Elders returned-to-sender any care packages exceeding the mission limit of 2 packages per missionary per year. The Mission President eventually had to rescind his rule on this, as there were too many complaints from families to the Missionary Department in Salt Lake.

2. During my mission, Mervyn B. Arnold completed his Mission President assignment and was soon promoted to the Director of Training and Field Services of the LDS Mission Department in Salt Lake. (I discovered this when I finished my mission and then called the Mission Department in Salt Lake in order to report what I had experienced. Since Mervyn B. Arnold was now in charge from the Mission Department in Salt Lake, they simply forwarded me to his voice mail.) After that, Mervyn B. Arnold was promoted to the Second Quorum of the Seventy, and now he is a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy.

Note: The Quorum of the Seventy are considered to be above criticism or question by the church members due to the Temple Covenants, where members raise their right arm and swear 'Before God and Angels' that they 'Shall not speak evil of the Lord's Annointed', which Mormons consider to be any questioning, criticism or accusations against The Prophet, his two Counselors, the Apostles, and the Seventy. That means for most members, Mervyn B. Arnold and his policies are now officially beyond reproach.

The mail-opening incident, and related policies infringing on travel documents, financial instruments and packages, was back in 1987-88, and I have no idea how things went after that. However since Mervyn B. Arnold is now a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy, with previous Director level ties to the Training and Field Services the policies of the LDS Mission Department, I would suppose that his unquestionable policies are still in effect and probably greatly expanded, across a vast swath of the LDS hierarchy, including his original stomping grounds of the Costa Rica San Jose mission, of course.

Dave Jorgensen
http://www.lds-mormon.com/jorgensenexitletter.shtml

Thanks for sharing your experience. The level of control and dehumanization that occurs in the morg is truly terrifying.

Just when I think I can see some good in Mormonism stuff like this comes up.

Even in Europe. I was arrested in Switzerland once for not having it, but was soon released after a short explanation.

Any mission home in a foreign country that confiscates the passport is committing a crime.

Incidentally, confiscating passports is the same thing that West European pimps do to their East European sex slaves.

That's nonsense, it's not illegal to not carry ID on you. In Germany, you do not have to carry your ID card with you, even though that is popular belief.

You do have to show it to the authorities, should they ask you for it, but you can just report to any Police station to do that.

You're so full of shit.

End of test.

It's not the "shit" part that's not being allowed. The board keeps rejecting my message over and over for some sort of "banned" word. But I can say shit all I want: Shit-shit-shit. I can even say you're full of shit, and I guess that doesn't matter. Good thing, that.

So I logged in without my usual moniker, so we'll see if that's the problem.

I was just saying in my note that I've lived in Germany 13 years and have been checked times too numerous to mention in train stations and even on the autobahns. I've been detained in Austria in a routine road block for having left my passport at my hotel, and was kept there for some time until the hotel personnel came to my rescue. I've also lived in (here I listed five countries, and maybe Susan et al. has a beef with one of them), and my travels have taken me all over Europe, to (another six countries that Susan et al. may have a beef with). I've never had the luxury of not having to carry a passport as ID. I've learned that when you're in a traffic accident in Italy, your Italian license is no good without your ID. I've learned from Autobahn traps that my EU license was no good without the passport it was registered under. Nowadays, all over Europe they do routine checks on the street, in train stations, and along the highways looking for illegal aliens and human traffickers. If you're foreign, you will be detained if you don't have your passport. If you're an EU citizen but don't have your EU ID (which is unimaginable) you will likewise be detained.

In my experience, only Americans don't require constant possession of ID. That should have changed after Sept 11, but hasn't so far, and it will someday bite Americans in the collective butt. As for Canada, I can't say. Canadians are a mysterious and exotic race of people, and few people have ventured beyond their frontier to learn about their curious customs and mores. Everywhere else, carry you passport.

Hey, staff: Germany? Italy? Emirates? Democratic Republic of Congo? Eh? Eh? Something wrong with Cambodia? Don't like Indonesia?

RfM doesn't allow use of the Middle Eastern country that sounds like "gutter" or "cutter." Who knew? Personally, I think that's weird, but who am I?

Apologies to everybody over this and my hi-jacking the thread. I kinda had to find out what the deal was.

Cludgie--that was the best part of the thread! I nearly passed out laughing! Thanks, your posts rock.

I served in Colombia in the late 90s. They held our passports "for safe keeping" and provided us with a photocopy to carry around. Good thing they didn't take our credit cards, that would have been a different mission. Especially since our allowance was only $30 per month.

Well, good morning from an exceedingly sunny Munich.

Cludgie, apart from making me laugh this early, I fear I'm a very literal person and was merely commenting that not EVERY country even has an ID duty.

Austria and Switzerland do not, for example, Ireland and UK do not have ID cards (although I believe the UK is toying with one).

As a non EU in Germany, you would indeed do well to carry a copy at least to avoid hassle. I think this may be mandatory, but am not sure.

...so I won't spend too much time and will let you get on with things.

We had wandered off-topic, anyway. The point is, no one, not even a Holy Mission President, has the right or privilege to confiscate one's passport when it is the very supporting document that is allowing you to be there. I don't care if they give you a copy or not. You yourself know that the Bavarian Staatspolizei wouldn't give a rat's ass if you handed them a Xerox copy of your documents. Now, having said that, sometimes it is allowable to go to the local US consulate--if there's even one anywhere in your vicinity (and there's usually not)--and get a notarized copy of your passport. It's rare that someone will actually recognize this in any kind of legal pinch.

Missions are confiscating passports... I'm sorry, "keeping them in their possession" to keep the missionaries from abandoning their missions and climbing on a jet for home. But it's wrong to even prevent a guy from doing that. I mean, if he's had it, let him go. Legally, in no wise can anyone block a person from heading for home, and legally in no wise can a mission president take another person's passport. Any missionary could plain refuse and both local and US law would be on his or her side, but I suppose pretty much all missionaries are too intimidated by the His Holy Presence the Mission President to do this.

I've got my passport right beside me here, and it says, "yada-yada, This passport remains the poperty of the United States... so on and so forth, The loss, theft, or destruction of a passport should be reported to the local police authorities and to Passport Services... blah-blah, your passport is a valuable citizenship and identification document."

You are only present in another country because of a visa. In many of the countries it is a standing 3-month tourist visa that is not pasted to or visible in the passport, but is enacted at point of entry with a time/location stamp (like at the airport passport control). In the case of working there, like with missionaries, I think your passport will always have a visa "foil" pasted in, and THAT, my friend, is what the police want to see, and THAT is what makes it illegal for His Holiness to "keep" your passport. Anything could happen. What if you got hit by a car while riding your bike, and your nylon garments melted into your suit, and... Sorry, wrong thread. Anyway, you get my drift. I guess so far the church hasn't had to fend enough of these problems yet. I wish some young missionary, bereft of his passport, would go to the police and say, "Hey! An old guy took my passport and won't give it back."

Sorry. You have that rare sunny day out there. Go enjoy. God, Munich is a great place.

Shows you how gullable I was. I thought the Mission Office held my Passport just so they could do the visa paperwork for me (Argentina Neuquen Mission '02-'03). It never occurred to me they held it so I wouldn't be able to leave!

I was really personal in my letters to the mission president (which was stupid, I realize). It pisses me off that they could have been passed around to all the office elders!

We had a lot of stupid rules in our mission. I was chewed out by my MP for asking for my stipend to increase because I was in Bariloche, a ski town in the Andes where it was more expensive to live than most podunk towns in the Patagonia. I was told I could only talk to my DL or ZL about that kind of issue and that I "wasn't on a vacation" (no kidding I wasn't!)

Soccer was prohibited in my mission. (Yes, in a SOUTH AMERICAN mission, soccer was prohibited!) We weren't allowed to drink mate which was a social death sentence for us as all Argentines (members included) drink mate as a social lubricant. We weren't allowed to drink coke. The zone leaders called us at 9:45 every night to make sure we were in our apartment.

It sounds like my mission wasn't as strict as Costa Rica though!

And the French police are VERY keen on checking them.

Even more so if your skin is darker than the European average.

Sadly.

...when the mail and monthly checks would come directly to us. No church middle man.

But not only is it a sign of the church's increasing stranglehold, it's a sign of how stupid and compliant Mormons can be.

My dear TBM brothers and sisters, you could still mail things directly if you wanted. Sure, some countries have sketchy mail systems, but otherwise, ignore the Great and Powerful Oz and act like real people instead of puppets.

I'd have to be an exceptionally stupid missionary to no realize I could bypass the snooping overlords and send my illicit communications directly. Or just go to the nearest library or internet cafe and email them.

...snooping and tattling on non-conformists is reason #1.

What can a Mission President do with his non-conformist missionaries? He can make their life Hell for two years, and actually much longer than that:

1 - Verbally abusing them; Screaming, name calling and threats in public forums, private interviews, and over the phone, etc.

2 - Eliminating their privileges; Bye Bye Senior-companion, Leadership positions, having a mission car, permission to use the bus or taxi, dining out (ie. having a hot dog, a piece of pizza, a can of soda), preparation day hours, receiving care packages, receiving your developed-by-mail photos, forwarding your mail, having a companion who speaks English, getting 8 hours of sleep, etc.

3 - Confiscating financial instruments; Checkbooks, Credit cards (I'd say Passports, but that's already taken when you arrive...), etc.

4 - Giving an Area Transfer; Someplace with violent crime, riots, america-hating military forces pointing guns at them, arresting them. Someplace with rats, mosquitos, cockroaches, wild dogs in the street, no hot water, no clean drinking water, no phone, no transportation, no mail drop, etc.

5 - Sending them Stateside; Bringing an early end to their 'inspired' destination, creating huge self-doubt, sense of failure, and leaving folks at home wondering whether the missionary was undisciplined, home-sick, mentally or physically ill, or just too stupid to learn the language.

6 - Sending them Home Early; Cutting their mission short and send them back dishonored. Making their parents cry. Sending a damning release letter to their Stake President, ruining their reputation, their home life, their future church callings, their social life, their ability to date Mormon women. Wrecking their chances of LDS college admittance. Wrecking their marriage plans with their Must-Marry-An-RM-Brainwashed fiance.

Easy to blame the victim if you've never been the victim. Easy to encourage resistance if you've never experienced the punishment for that. The reality is, if you resist in the mission, and if your Mission President is a control freak, thanks to the narc-on-your-comp system he has all the knowledge and position to tighten the screws until you surrender and/or until those two years and possibly some years after that are the worst hell of your life.

For anyone considering allowing your kids on a mission, consider yourself warned.

DataHavok

My favorite meeting with my last mission president was my exit interview.

President Moody, " Well D, clearly this whole church thing doesn't work for you. I hope you succeed at whatever you do in life. By the way, are you planning on starting a family?"

Me. "Not anytime soon. Here is my temple recommend."

https://new.myldsmail.net/myldsmail/help/usage-guidelines.jsf

The e-mail system may record all messages sent and received. Authorized representatives of the Church may monitor and review your messages and e-mail use at any time.

https://ldsaccount.lds.org/sign-in/go/membershipInfo.jsf?email=0&dest=http://new.myldsmail.net/myldsmail

and if you use hotmail your companion is supposed to grass you up!

Prison slang - meaning to snitch

A presidential election was held while I was on my mission, and we were encouraged to vote, despite the rules against watching tv, reading the paper, etc. So how the heck was I supposed to know who to vote for? It seemed like a joke, but our MP handed all missionaries a piece of paper with little blurbs about the presidential candidates so that we could decide who to vote for. (As if that's enough to make an informed decision) And don't forget about all of the other federal, state and county offices up for election that year. So I made the decision not to vote, deciding that it wouldn't be right for me to be such an uneducated voter. Looking back I should have just broken the rules, studied the candidates, and voted.

All missionaries can communicate through e-mail. However the great "catch 22" is that it is only through "myldsmail.net". This is constantly monitored by the LDS Church Security Unit. You know them as the badge wearing ,gun toting, appear from nowhere on Temple Square to harrass you. These are the local arm of the Church Security Service. They happen to be the second largest private security organization on the planet.

Everything that passed through the Church e-mail system is monitored.

Policies and Procedures

"Security" The e-mail system may record all messages sent and received. **Authorized representatives of the Church may monitor and review your messages and e-mail use at any time**. Under certain circumstances, including litigation, the Church may be required to disclose users' e-mail messages and other materials created by users.

They are watching you

JB

When I was out from Dec.2004 to Jan. 2007 I did not know one missionary that used this service. Oh, sure we set up the account but weren't stupid enough to use it. I am positive there were missionaries that used it and stuck to all the rules.

you know with all of the technology, etc. going on today, how can they expect the guys/girls not to be able to go somewhere and facebook, etc. also, they have cell phones today. Are they that brainwashed that they are going to do exactly as told.

My MP in the Dominican Republic was obsessed with masturbation and preventing it. Most of his talks revolved around the big "M". We were constantly told there was a big masturbation prob in the mission and it was causing the spirit to leave the mission and hurt baptism rates.

Anyhoo, on several occassions the MP told us the only time we were allowed to handle our genitals was to go pee and in the shower when washing. We were advised to not linger too long in the shower and even leave the bathroom door open while in the shower to minimize the temptation to jack off. I wish I was joking about this,but sadly it was true.