I have been inactive in tscc for many years. this past year a former visiting teacher found me on facebook and ask for my address. I basically told her that I didn't see any reason for that since I know longer believed the church's teachings. she suggested having my name removed. I have not done so simply because I take no merit in it and just really don't want to waste my time, just not on my list of priorities.

but i got another message from her today:

"How are you doing? Well, I hope. Have you considered telling me your address yet? Because, really, if you want your name removed from the records, I don't think it's very difficult-- I think a couple of the ward leaders would just come visit and confirm that's what you want. Not that I'm advocating it! You do seem pretty happy with your current church family, though."

I am just wondering why is it so important to them...It certainly isn't to me

As long as your name is on the records, they feel obligated to try to fellowship you. If you resign, they don't have to feel like you're part of the flock that needs to be guided back to the fold.

Incidentally, they don't need to visit you, either. As soon as you send the letter, legally you're out. We did get a visit when my husband resigned, even though he requested no contact. But he wasn't home and I am a nevermo. It was a very awkward encounter.

I did not think they had to visit. I think it is just a way for them to get my address to attempt to bring me back to their flock.

Silly, isn't it?

silliest thing I have ever seen. its amusing to me that they think they have such power.

In a protestant denomination I used to attend, individual churches sent "apportionments" to the denomination headquarters based on the number of members they had. So, if our church had 400 members but only 200 were active, there was a motivation to get those other 200 off the records if they didn't want to be members anymore. No one pressured anyone or anything, but every few years a committee would go through the membership list and remove people who had died and call people who were long gone to see if they wanted to stay members. Some churches couldn't afford to send their full apportionment.

Do LDS wards do this? Or does ALL the money go straight to SLC?

In Mormonland all of the tithes go directly to SLC. There isn't an apportionment system based on church rolls.

Fast offerings are supposed to go to helping the neediest in the ward (used to be.) I don't know if they still do that. It seems to have become more centralized over time, where all the donations end up in SLC coffers and then are disbursed out from there.

My husband was ward clerk up until he resigned 2 years ago. All the money (tithing, fast offerings, other donations) goes directly to SLC. Then they distribute fast offerings back to each ward, depending on the need. Hubby said the bishop was never turned down if he requested more $ from fast offerings. It is closely monitored by church headquarters.

That happened to me when I first stopped attending in the 90's.

A pair of mishies came to my door one night, which I refused to open. I told them to go away through the door and that I wasn't interested in what they had to say.

One of them proceeded to ask me if I wanted them to remove my name from the rolls?

I answered right back that I would do that when I was ready to, not before.

It felt rude and insulting when he said that. Especially in his persnickety voice like he had one up on me, because he was a priesthood holder, who had patriarchal authority over me - little jackass that he was. He had absolutely no power over me at all. Nor did the church.

The church had fleeced me already by then, and I was fed up with it and its nonsense.

I could not agree more. I thought it was so rude the first time she brought up name removal. Your response to them was perfect. It is almost amusing how they seem to think they still hold power over us.

So pushy, especially the part where she asks if you've considered telling her your address.

I think I would probably just not respond. Or maybe respond with the last line of your post, "I'm just wondering why it is so important to them...it certainly isn't to me."

a picture of mormons should be found when looking up the definitions of pushy. good suggestion :)

I think it's odd that she would even suggest name removal to you. I wonder if the ward leaders are encouraging that...

Their main goal has always been to "reactivate" anyone who isn't attending and do everything they can to convince you to NOT remove your name.

I haven't been in a few years, so maybe they have some new methods for ensuring fully active ward members. Deleting any "inactive" might help their stats.

that was just what I thought....how odd it was. why I believe it may just be another tactic to getting my address

My brother had two guys show up at his house a few years ago, claimed to be his home teachers. Since he hasn't had anything to do with the morg for almost forty years and he and his wife are closer to being born-again Christians, he laid into them. The older guy asked if he wanted his name removed. "Hell yes!" A few weeks later the BP came by, confirmed that he wanted it and he was out.

I think the morg is trying to get certain people out so they don't have to worry about them, like Chica said.

Tell her you're waiting to be excommunicated. It's the only honest thing the church can do.

There are a couple of reasons why they are bringing this up to you.

One, as other posters have pointed out, as long as you are on the list, they will want to "fellowship" you. They see the fact that you haven't removed your name as you really still do believe and just need a reason to come back, so they will try to keep giving you a reason.

You can and will be a project for reactivation from time to time. This serves a couple of purposes. If they are successful, then they get a tithe paying member back, if they aren't then you become busy work and a reminder as to what happens when people let their testimonies slide.

Two, With all of that, why suggest removing your name? Well, it's about stats. The church is all about numbers. You are an inactive member on the ward list, that looks bad. the percentage of active to inactive is a bit lower because you're on the list. If you remove your name, then their stats look better. One less member sure, but their activity rate goes up.

My sister had been in a ward when the bishopric changed. The new bishop sent out letters with self addressed, stamped post cards to all the inactive members asking if they wanted to remain members of the church, if he didn't hear from them or they responded "no" on the post card, he processed their resignation paperwork. This had the effect of immediately improving his numbers and gave him a lot fewer members in his ward that he had to "worry" about. Unfortunately, not all Bishops think this way.

Finally, some members realize that they are bothering you and that if you don't remove your name, they will "have" to continue bothering you due to home teaching assignments, etc. They know that if it's not them, that someone else will be assigned to you to bother you in the future and that if you want that to stop, the best way is to process your resignation. Some are genuinely trying to help, the only way they know how.

Personally, if I were you, I'd resign. You don't need to have anyone come to your house, you can resign by email, directly with Church HQ. so you don't have to give your address if you don't want. People resign or don't resign for many reasons, for me, it stopped the missionaries coming around, which I appreciated.

Resignation means someone initiated a process themselves, no?

From what I understand, there was no court, so no excommunication. He was asking the inactive people in his ward if they wanted to still be members, they still had a choice. If they said "no" he processed their resignation paperwork.

The Bishop's letter basically said something to the effect of "I've noticed you've been inactive for over x period of time. Do you still want to be a member? Please reply with the enclosed card with a yes or no. If you reply "No" or I don't hear from you within x period of time, I'll process the paperwork to remove you from the rolls."

In other words, he was asking them if they wanted to resign and if they replied that they did, or if he didn't hear back from them, he took that as permission to process their resignation paperwork.

Keep in mind that most churches go ahead and remove people from their rolls when they don't show up for a couple of years. That's basically what this bishop did, he just tried to ask people first.

It's all about the metrics that matter to them. The performances of the "General Authority 70" responsible for your area, your stake president, and your bishop are all measured, and whether they move up the food chain is a function of that measurement.

Units and stakes are evaluated on a number of factors, including sacrament meeting attendance (%), tithing faithfulness (%), Melchizedek priesthood (% of adults), home teaching %, temple recommend holders (%), priesthood meeting attendance %, etc.

When you stay on the rolls as a member, but you aren't attending meetings, paying tithing, holding a temple recommend, etc., you are pushign those performance indicators down. In a word, you're making them look bad.

If they get you off the rolls, they look better.

It simply gets you off of their obligation list and it means they have a smaller percentage of inactives in their ward. It makes it look like a high percentage of members are active and that makes them look good.

You name is NEVER removed !

True, your name is never removed, which is why the "name removal" euphemism is silly and wrong.

When you resign, your membership IS ended.

That is the actual purpose of resignation, and it works. Its purpose is not to reduce the number of members they report in their statistics, or to "remove your name from their records." It ends your membership, both in the eyes of the church and in the eyes of the law.

The law allows for anyone to leave a church whenever they say they are no longer interested in belonging to it. That's what freedom of religion and freedom of association mean. It's totally up to the individual, not the state or the organization.

There are 100s of ways of showing "no interest." One of them is to stay away for an extended time. No one under the law would claim the person is part of a church they haven't attended to contributed to for decades.

A person could show they were no longer part of an organization by verbally telling a representative from the organization. "I am no longer part of your church. I've moved on. Leave me alone."

A person could storm the church on Sunday and walk in on the bishop. "I have quit. Stay away from me and my family. I'll never pay tithes and I'll never attend. Goodbye."

Just because the church lays out rules or suggested procedures for "name removal" does not mean they must be followed. In a free society, the law doesn't force anyone to follow fake rules written up by a fake church.

Many of us here have already resigned. There isn't much to it. I understand that it can even be done online, now.

Just DO it, and the Mormons will be out of your hair. Period.

I have NEVER regretted resignation. Not for one nanosecond.

But I'm making a point. I never officially resigned because I didn't know such a thing was possible.

The bishop sent in notice to SLC saying they should consider that I'd requested "name removal." Nope, never happened.

If official "name removal" were the only way to leave, it would mean that no one would could have been legally out of the mormon church from Joe's day until whenever the case came up in court over half a century later. No. Many members left before the church was forced to offer an official exit procedure.

and im concerned about them looking better for what reason ;)

LOL. Exactly. Which is why I was tempted (ever so briefly) to stay.

I'd ask her why the fixation on me and my membership.

It sounds like Monson died and she is the new prophet.

It's things like that that make me uncrate the shittier side of my personality. Then I start having fun!

Yep, the evil me slipped out!

I'd ask her for her membership number. Maybe you could remove HER name!


DLOL -- Diabolical Laughing Out Loud

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It's things like that that make me uncrate the
> shittier side of my personality.

This line made me lol!!! I'm gonna have to use that! :-)

My dad is the ward clerk in the ward boundaries where I live. We live in the same town. I've had unannounced visits from mishies, letters from people in the ward who think they have some authority over me. I see it coming down the pipe from dad (he freely gave out my address when I moved here), but he denies it. Drives me batshit crazy! Mormons know no boundaries. I can at least be smugly happy about being part of making their attendance numbers look bad.

Boundaries? We don't need no steenkeeng Boundaries!

They're wrong.

All very interesting. I finally got mine removed when I realized I could (thanks internet!) 10 years after the fact.

I felt the need because I didn't want to contribute to any potential political power TSCC could gain because of the numbers of members who no longer attend but are technically 'members' still so they can claim a large membership base when who knows what it really would be if all the 'in actives' got their names removed.

I didn't know they kept files though as 'active' and 'inactive'.. I guess I did but didn't think of it in terms of this issue. I would have thought they liked to keep the in actives on the record still for above stated reasons.

But I also wanted off so I wouldn't be harassed and followed everywhere I moved with 'visiting' teachers and the like trying to 'fellowship' me. (also because of MY dad giving out MY address! Oh man, are they all the same or what these TBM fathers???!!!.. I still get the BYU alumni magazine because of him! ARGH! But no more phone calls at least!)

And it just became a matter of principle for me. I wanted to be 'OUT out' not just 'out'.. But of course I never told my TBM family I did it because I feel they couldn't handle that (the implications in their minds.. no longer even baptized.. a true gentile!)..

I actually think it's a good sign that they asked you if you wanted to do that.. like finally they are even encouraging people who've left to resign instead to trying to either keep them on as another number to add to their member list, or try to excommunicate you.

I don't know it's the first I've heard of that!

They are afraid of you blotting your name out of the book of life...

My first inclination would be to simply drop/block her from Facebook. This would be a good idea anyway because such a busybody acquaintance should not have access to your personal information. But you could also give her the address of the nearest bar, strip joint, Planned Parenthood office, prison, etc.

The thing is, there are senior missionaries working at the church offices in SLC whose job it is to find missing members. The list of methods that they employ would make any private detective proud. It could be that someone from church headquarters has contacted her in hopes that she can get your address. If this is the case, it's just a matter of time before they get it. In the internet age, most people are findable, even by determined amateurs. So take this as a heads-up that the point may come where you *need* to resign in order to fend off unwanted church visitors.

If it gets to that point, complete directions for how to resign can be found here. You can even do it via email:

http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2017 05:39PM by summer.

abandoned warehouse, etc.

Planned Parenthood office is a good one.

They have rules, dammit!

They need your current address so they can send your "records" to the right ward.

They think you are supposed to follow their rules even if you left!

They get all frustrated when you don't play along. Just to push her buttons, I might say:

"I don't attend your church. I have no concern what they do with people's records any more than the Mickey Mouse Club. It's not worth my time. I do not need your church keeping track of my address. It's kind of creepy that you are asking for my address for your church to be honest."


Sheesh!

It seems quite ironic that TSCC considers you worse than the worst sinner or murderer if you become apostate but they would prefer you apostatize rather than stay on their rolls and be impossible to contact because you are lost in the system or refuse contact. I just cannot see the love in that approach.

"Please officially apostatize so I don't have to keep assigning home teachers and visiting teachers and missionaries to hunt you down".

Then when you do resign they send a letter inviting you back. (Head scratch) Couldn't they just leave you on the rolls, ask if you want continued contact, stop bothering you if you request 'no contact' and then just pray for you regularly and put you on the prayer rolls so God and the Holy Ghost can take it from there? It doesn't seem like Mormons have much faith in their God to watch over His lost sheep.

Also, rather than shun you after you resign, which was their recommendation to you, why not actually acknowledge you respectfully and with caring if they happen to meet you on the street or in the grocery store? A nice "How have you been?" or maybe "What's new?" would show more of a loving concern than a cold shoulder and glaring stare. It might actually make a person think twice about their decision to leave rather than confirm that they left a cold, calculating, money grubbing cult.

Remember to "resign" (vice "having your name removed") using the instructions on this website and a few others. DO NOT try to do it by going through your local authorities, as they will drag their feet, annoy, and other wise hector you forever, and might possibly never actually follow through.

Right -- It should be done through the Member Records department in SLC. That department is well aware of your rights under law, and they will complete the process if your local bishop drags his feet.

Finally Free! wrote: "...some members realize that they are bothering you and that if you don't remove your name, they will "have" to continue bothering you due to home teaching assignments, etc. They know that if it's not them, that someone else will be assigned to you to bother you in the future and that if you want that to stop, the best way is to process your resignation. Some are genuinely trying to help, the only way they know how."

That was my case when I was in the bishopric about five years ago. I wondered why we just didn't do this with all the inactives (and maybe even vocalized it in a meeting?) because a) I knew they didn't want us bothering them and b) I was not in the mood to waste my time on them anymore.

So....I actually think that in the majority of these "do you want to resign?" situations, it's less about improving performance numbers and more about wanting to stop wasting everyone's time.

Back in about 1980, a bishop in San Angelo, TX, got a bee in his cowboy hat about the people who had not been to church in a while, and he personally went out and just told the people that he was going to terminate their church membership unless they had a reason to stop him. The take-home from that was that there were all too plenty who said, Sure, go ahead.

From my experience here is what I think is happening.

In the old days there was a "lost sheep" file for people they could not locate.

Some years back the church sent instructions to the last know wards to track people down.

Since she is asking for your address it sounds like they have no real idea where you live. That means you are on their rolls and count in their statistics.

By either assigning you to a new ward or getting you to resign, they will have you off their books.

As for an adress, give them a cemetary in some random town. Otherwise expect her or others to contact you from time to time.

Their last act of intimidation

Why is this so complicated? You said you don't believe and you don't want to be bothered. Seems a nice gesture to get you off the list so you aren't bothered.

We complain if they try to get us back, and we complain if they try to remove our names.

It should be up to the individual if they resign or not.

Good grief, exmos don't have to all do it the same way.

Stats:

Certain Mo things are decided by the % of member in attendance, etc.

However, if they don't know which ward you're in....Why?

SHORT VERSION EXPLANATION: MORmONS feel that they have to be in control of whatever is going on (because they are WORLD CLASS ASS HOLES).

SLightly longer example: When MORmONS thought that I might object to being ex commed or see being excommed as some kind of punishment then they insisted that they were going to see to it that I was ex commed. When it appeared to MORmONS that I would resent being associated with MORmONS and MORmONISM in any way then they insisted that they were going to dead baptize me into the MORmON church against my wishes.

ADDED EXPLANATION: What ever it takes to make people happy (MISERABLE) in a MORmON sort of way !!!!! THAT IS WHAT MORmONS WANT TO DO !!!

I'd stay on their rolls just to fuck up their stats.

Nothing wrong with being a burden.

Since you have figured out that the Mormon church is a fraud, then why not sever all ties with the church and go on with your life as a happy non-Mormon? It sounds to me like you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2017 01:53PM by saviorself.

Because its to fun watching a squirming representative of the LDS church on my front porch. That is priceless my friends. Therefore my name remains on the books. Game on..

Haha, yes...and I think there is value in that. I say have fun with them. Make them work. And the bonus is that you get to laugh.

I did that for a few years. Then I realized that they really did have me marked as "do not contact" (it was notated on my record I saw on the online membership record." Damn. A good thing for me because I really didn't want contact. But part of me wanted them to visit so I could ask them uncomfortable questions and see their expressions.

I resigned last month. Partly because I don't want them to count me on their rolls and mostly because I know it's a fraud and why be a member of this crap? It is all crap.

Personally I would block her on Facebook and not respond to her anymore. If and when you decide to remove your name it should be because you want to, not because this woman is harassing you. Mormons have no boundaries. She doesn't deserve a response from you.