Was it worth it, mom and dad?!

How could a parent forget their two-year old toddler in a carseat inside a hot car? I don't see how authorities can call this an "accident." :(

Tragic.

"Toddler Dies in a Hot Car While Family Attends a Reunion
Alessia Santoro,Popsugar US 3 hours ago

A toddler was left to die in a hot van in Utah by family members who were attending a family reunion over the weekend. The unnamed 2-year-old was discovered unresponsive by their father upon returning from a religious event with several other adults. It is assumed that the toddler fell asleep in the van on the way to the day's events and was forgotten as the group left the vehicle.

The child's death is believed to be an accident."

https://www.yahoo.com/style/toddler-dies-hot-car-while-211506180.html

he had so many kids he couldn't keep track of them all.

The event involved 'several other adults,' not other children.

How could both parents not remember their infant son inside a hot van on a summer day?

Utah police do not investigate these cases if the family is Mormon.

If this happened anywhere else there would be a full scale investigation of the parents actions and intent.

According to the KSL link below, it involved "more than 5 families and 25 to 30 children".

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/utah-toddler-dies-in-hot-car-as-relatives-attend-family-reunion/

So tragic!

I came from a relatively large family by today's standards (non-Mormon) we older kids would help look after the younger ones. Part of that was due to about a 12 year age gap from my sister and I to the two youngest siblings.

I've heard too many stories of children "left behind" from Mormons; they treat them as amusing anecdotes with chuckles all around.

But yes--bottom line is...too many kids!

This isn't unique to Mormons. This happens all over the country...and it doesn't only happen to people with a boatload of kids. More often than not, the stories involve a single child that wasn't dropped off at daycare, etc... A lot of you sound like heartless assholes.

NotaMormonThing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This isn't unique to Mormons. This happens all
> over the country...and it doesn't only happen to
> people with a boatload of kids. More often than
> not, the stories involve a single child that
> wasn't dropped off at daycare, etc...

> A lot of
> you sound like heartless assholes.

and you sound like a brainless MORmON apologist.

better to be a heartless asshole than BRAINLESS MORmON who is stupid enough to leave a child in a death chamber of a hot car.

You are completely discounting the fact that MORmONS are constantly instructed AND BELIEVE that their faithFOOLness in MORmON affairs will grant them some kind of special privileges and exemptions when it comes to other areas of concern that should have been given more consideration .....like the welfare of their children. MORmONS then live .....and die with those expectations always in place, even when those expectations COMPLETELY FAIL THEM. And whatever the outcome, MORmON leaders can be counted on to instruct MORmON members to persist in the MORmON way, because, regardless of any incidental bitter outcomes, continuing in the MORmON way is the thing that counts for THE Glory of MORmONISM and nothing matters more than THE Glory of MORmONISM prevailing. SO, MORmONS find themselves stuck in a situation where they just can not do any better than being complete MORmONS !!!!

MORmONS constantly do for their highly demanding MORmON religion at the expense of gambling on outcomes of other things that end up being neglected and should have been given more consideration except that their MORmON religion was in the mix making all kinds of exorbitant demands backed by the notion that the mighty MORmON religion and their MORmON Jesus must come first at any cost.


Go ahead, in all of "THE" glory of your MORmON style whizzDUMB, try to tell everyone that is not "THE" case with good members of "THE" (MORmON) church!

Here is a classic example of exactly what I am talking about.
It's a MORmON disaster precipitated by MORmON expectations, even so the MORmON demand mill still keeps churning and spinning at full MORmON speed, because MORmONISM and THE Glory of the MORmON cause must prevail at all costs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3A5QGj7ZaM

The creepy part of this will be that there will be little mourning. God took him/her home, they are in the CK, etc.

The rest will suffer a slow death by Mormonism.

I wouldn't even forget my pets in the car or leave them in the heat in the car, let alone forget my kids. I'm a bit neurotic when it comes to making sure everyone is okay. I can't believe a parent who wasn't looking around within moments thinking, "Where's the 2-year-old?"

I don't buy the story line it was an accident.

They arrested a mother in Texas who had left her kids in the car as "punishment" while she took a nap.

I just noticed the highlighted link in the article about 12 of 16 child deaths were in Utah, and they want to make technology to prevent "hot car" deaths.

Preventing human stupidity with technology. Like driverless cars.

That is not what the article says, Chicken N. Backpacks.

"This the 16th hot car death of 2017 so far, according to Kids and Cars, and it's the 12th in Utah since 1996, according to KUTV News."


In your bigoted rush to try to turn this family tragedy into a strictly Mormon phenomenon, you failed to even read the article.

I've read several articles about this and the problem that I have with this particular situation is that the child was left in the car for six hours before they discovered he was missing. Things can get chaotic and losing a child for a few minutes is understandable. But a two-year-old requires constant care...filling sippy cups, diaper changes (or many trips to the potty if they're miraculously potty trained), snacks, naps, etc. To never wonder why you haven't done any of those things once in six hours is unfathomable to me.

I don't believe they intended to kill the child, but I don't think they intended to take care of him either.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=44837914&nid=1417



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2017 12:32PM by want2bx.

The KSL article has a photo of the poor kid wearing a headband that says "Nephi", so anyone saying "Maybe he wasn't a mormon" needs to sit down.

I will posit at least three things:

1: Mother/father too young with multiple kids.

2: Mother/father too exhausted with multiple kids.

3: Mother/father assume other siblings will be in charge of looking after too many children.

Bonus:

4: Religion more important than intelligent common sense.

^^^ Yes

Religious meeting on a Saturday night? Translation: Family Home Evening.

If the child was in the hot car for an estimated six hours, the parents had not seen the child for at least that amount of time. IMO the parents and the driver of the vehicle should be charged with some sort of negligence.

Or a trip to the temple.

That's what I think, too. Quote from KSL article:

"The families had traveled to St. George using multiple vehicles. When they returned to the Winchester Hills area, the adults prepared "for a religious meeting" in St. George, according to the statement.

Meanwhile, it was believed Abraham had fallen asleep in the vehicle and did not get out, remaining there until after the adults had left.

When the adults returned, it was discovered that Abraham was missing, according to the sheriff's office. A search began and the boy's father found him in the van."

It sounds like the adults left for their "religious meeting" and left older kids in charge of the 25-30 kids. I find it disgusting that KSL is deliberately hiding the nature of this "religious meeting".

You're both correct. I've seen how crazy it can be to leave to go to the temple in order to make the X:00 pm session.

"When the adults returned..."

Really? Even if Abraham was not left in the car, how smart is it to leave 35 children alone at the resort?

Don't think it was a resort. KSL article says they were at Winchester Hills which is a residential subdivision (north of Santa Clara for those who are familiar with the St. George area). But I agree that leaving that many kids under the care of older children is a bad idea ... wherever they are.

Sounds more like 30+ relatives crammed in to one relative's home. Neighbors must love them (not), unless they all engage in this activity. Or perhaps some of them were in hotels and the house was a venue for meals.

FHE is on Monday

But, let's have some respect for the dead. Sorry you didn't have a long life. You had a good chance to not be caught up in Mormonism, and be part of something better. It's something special to be alive.

At 12:00 noon. By six pm it was 108.

Inside a car that temperature would've felt like 129 to 128 Fahrenheit.

Even if the parents are not guilty of intentional homicide, they should be charged with reckless endangerment and welfare of a child leading to his death.

That would be involuntary manslaughter in New York.

Apparently not in Utah when the adults are having a family reunion and a religious meeting combined.

There is no way clear headed, responsible, sober parents would wait six hours in that kind of heat before wondering where their two-year old son was they had left behind in a hot van in St. George on a 109 degree day.

This makes me sick to learn of their gross negligence. Whether deliberate or not, they are irresponsible a**holes for parents.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2017 01:56PM by Amyjo.

This is a case where no law can match the consequences of stupidity. I mean, the loss of a child, why didn't you take me kind of thing.

People need to be educated. Heat kills and it can kill fast.

I was one of the lucky ones. I was eight, and my oversize family went to another oversize family's home to attend at their ward. I noticed the house was suddenly quiet, and I found that they'd left without me. I thought I was going to get punished, so I walked around until I saw the spire of the church. When I got there the meeting was almost over, and my parents said they thought I'd been in the back of the station wagon or something.

When I was fifteen, my mother left my baby sister in the station wagon to go shopping. I asked, "what if someone molests her?" And my mother and older sister laughed at me. I didn't even think about the car heating up with the windows closed. My baby sister survived, but to this day that bothers me. We got lucky, the two of us.

Don, thank you for your voice. The superficial reputation of LDS is 'family focused', 'family values', etc. The sick underbelly of procreation for CK is real time neglect.

Even more true when it comes to the FLDS, which I suspect these people are.

The family who lost the little boy is from Preston, Idaho. There are no FLDS in Preston.

There are FLDS all over Northern Utah all the way up into Northern Idaho. But they may certainly be regular LDS. It doesn't say. I wondered if they were FLDS because of the Saturday religious meetings back to back as well as the large number of kids and being transported in vans. In addition to the fact that they gathered in Southern Utah (FLDS stronghold). That's not typical LDS behavior. But it certainly could be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2017 05:18PM by Devoted Exmo.

In St George and Washington you won't see hardly any FLDS unless they're out shopping at the grocery stores or Walmart. You can tell them from their distinctive dress, and that's the women folk. The men don't come into town hardly ever.

FLDS in southern Utah live in Hildale or Colorado City right over the border, 45 miles away from St. George. They've also been dismantling in the last several years since Warren Jeffs went to prison.

The ones who've been kicked out from there by the leaders have moved to St George where they and their children are being assimilated into the community of mostly Mormons (LDS.) The FLDS in southern Utah is fading away.

Family reunions where cousins, siblings and relatives come from that part of the Morridor are mostly LDS. I know Preston. It's all mostly LDS. There are other denominations, but FLDS is not one of them.

There is no FLDS meeting places in St George or Washington for FLDS to gather. There are dozens of LDS chapels everywhere you look. And the St George temple downtown.

The online obituary for the boy mentioned services to be held at an LDS (mainstream) meetinghouse. I bet the adults did a temple session.

Thank you for sharing this.

I figured they were LDS from reading the initial report.

For those others here who didn't get that, this will settle that question for them.

The only one not getting closure from this horrible tragedy is the baby.

It doesn't really matter one way or the other if they were LDS or FLDS. I suspected FLDS, but it appears they are regular LDS. Either way, it was too many kids not properly supervised by the adults. It's a tragedy.

I've seen FLDS in Northern Utah. Maybe they were just traveling through to Canada. Who knows. There's definitely non-FLDS Polygamists North of Salt Lake.

Warren Jeffs had a place in Pocatello.

He didn't live there. That's where some boys were sent to be imprisoned until state authorities became aware of it and disbanded the home where they were being housed.

http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/news/58317321-78/jessop-flds-pocatello-report.html.csp

Right. There are polygamists all over Idaho. Particularly the Kingstons.

No there aren't. I'm from Idaho and have lived all over the state.

Polygamy is dead there. If there are any it would be a handful. They do not make the news in Idaho.

The only polygamists we were aware of as kids had disbanded long before.

The Kingstons are located near SLC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2017 07:59PM by Amyjo.

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=12164781&itype=NGPSID

"Nichols, whose former surname was Kingston, claimed she ran away from her home in 1998, but was found by her father, John Daniel Kingston, who beat her unconscious. She said she was taken to an isolated ranch in Box Elder County, but walked two hours to a pay phone and called 911."

And:

"The Browns » Three members of an Idaho family -- Dan Brown, Ken Brown and John Brown, representing the Ray Brown estate -- sued Nichols for defamation in U.S. District Court. So did Stephen Kingston, who was living in the Phoenix area, and Ted Kingston, of Las Vegas."


Edit to add:

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-08-08/news/mn-21747_1_kingston-family

"Under a maze of company names and corporations, the Kingston organization now has businesses in Utah, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Iowa and Idaho."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2017 08:06PM by Devoted Exmo.

Just tragic!

You don't have to be Mormon to be so dumb as to leave your kids in a hot car. Unfortunately, every once in a while, you read about this.

One man left his car-seat child in his car, while he went in to take a drink in a bar. Read about this in a newspaper--it got coverage, and it likely will haunt him the rest of his life (which I'm virtually sure it will). Can't sleep with this memory stuck in you head.

When I was 8 years old my parents left me in the family station wagon (before SUVs) overnight, parked on the street in front of my house. My large family returned from a day trip in the early evening and I had fallen asleep in the car. They decided not to wake me and then forgot about me. This was around the time when the zodiac killer was on the loose. They all had dinner and went to bed, never thinking to check on me - a child sleeping alone in a car on the street. I woke up at about 2 AM in the car and was too afraid to walk up the driveway to my house in the dark. I had to go to the bathroom though, and couldn't go in the car, so I finally got out of the car and ran to the front door. All the doors were locked and I couldn't get in the house. I was very frightened and started screaming until my dad finally woke up and let me in. My family - especially my younger sister whom I shared a bedroom with, didn't seem to care at all that I'd been left in an unlocked car on the street. They showed no sympathy at all. How my parents managed not to leave any of their toddlers in a hot car to die, I'll never know.

Abraham came from a family of seven children. Too many to keep track of, evidently. As a teacher, whenever I take kids out of the school building I am constantly counting noses. I am at a loss as to why neither of the parents ever did a head count.

Or maybe the adults were away for several hours (temple session?) while the older kids supervised the younger kids. I"m not saying the parents were in the home for six hours before noticing a child missing, but between the time away from the home (article states the adults returned to the home) plus the time they were in the home before and after the "religious celebration", the child's absence was not noticed by anyone for six hours.

At some point, the adult who was driving the child exited the vehicle. I can tell you that whenever I have students exiting or entering a school bus for a field trip, I am counting and doing a roll call.

One thing that irritates me about the KSL article is that it states that the child did not exit the vehicle, as if a two year old has any capacity to do that -- "Meanwhile, it was believed Abraham had fallen asleep in the vehicle and did not get out, remaining there until after the adults had left." No, he did not get out, because he *couldn't.* He needed an adult to unbuckle him and help him out.

On a hot summer day when southern Utah was having a higher than average heat wave, it was on the parents to make sure their children were safe from the heat, and a hot car.

A two-year old would or should've been in a car seat. Unless he hadn't been, but they still would've known if he was with them or not.

Had the parents 'delegated' his stewardship to one of the older siblings, the onus was still on them to do that headcount.

Something is still not right with this story. A child can die in that hot of a car in a matter of minutes.

Why they waited six hours? To make sure he was dead? Appalling.

These people were SOBER. Even if they'd been drunk they'd be held to the same standard of care for their children.

At a minimum they were grossly negligent.

In St George and Washington, Utah where this took place the local police will arrest people for infractions, including changing lanes without signaling or not signaling for two seconds before making a turn.

The mugshots on the arrest blog for St George shows one distinction, you won't see active LDS on it.

You will see ex-Mormons, non-Mormons, and some FLDS.

This couple gets a pass because they're active LDS? I call BS!

If it had been anyone else, non-LDS, there'd be a full investigation pending.

Remember the LDS family who left their child in the car after returning from church or something? They had 7 kids, all boys. They all filed into the house and ate and went to bed and no one noticed that the disabled 4 year-old was missing. He was found dead the next morning. The police arrested the parents and placed the kids in foster care because their house was so unclean. Church members then were assigned to clean the house for the family. Kind of late for that. I would hope that no one said that "heavenly father had work for the child to do on the other side of the veil, so called him home."

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/boy-left-in-vehicle-dies/

It also begs the question if he had older siblings, why none of them would've reported to their parents he was missing?

Are they really that brain dead?!

The whole family is missing a set of spark plugs.

...or anyone else at the "religious meeting?" I assume that there were other adults present. No aunt, uncle, grandparent, cousin, neighbor or ward member asked,

"Where's the baby?"

NOT an accident.

Perhaps, but by Briggy's standards, "One less Mormon".

It's a tragedy made moreso because it was so preventable.

I agree. There's more to this story we aren't seeing.

Negligent Homicide in most jurisdictions.

In Seattle many yrs ago, a prominent Mormon made a bad left turn in front of an oncoming vehicle, which resulted in the death of his wife;

But she was terminally ill, so the law didn't prosecute.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2017 01:13PM by GNPE.

I grew up when large families had station wagons - not SUVs, and windows were cranked open by hand. Station wagons were fairly low to the ground compared to SUVs, so it was easier to glance in the back seat to see your toddler. Today's vans and SUVs, especially with darkened windows, don't provide as much visibility from the outside as a station wagon. If I had been left in the car at two years old, I might have been able to crank a window open and crawl out. Cars today have electric windows that will not open if the motor is not running, and doors that can't open from the inside if they're set in lock mode. So, unless the person trapped in the car can break a window, there's no escape from baking to death in a hot car or drowning in a car that ends up sinking in water. Maybe too much technology in cars is not a good thing.

I'm not trying to excuse the parent's neglectful behavior.

Car doors can be opened without electricity.

If it had been ice cream, they wouldn't have forgotten that.

Life in huge clan expecting large scheduled events ... demanding all couples all siblings all spouses be in rote attendance to everything scheduled by the clans patriarch matriarchy & cronies of all their minions as a show of sons daughters daughter in laws son in laws loyalty , disregarding everything every need every mother had every child had... forced living in a setting as cult as cult sixties or united order or polygamy family trooping to the temple , roles demanded by the cult community. Stay in the same vehicle with your children? Speak with your child hold him ? No the group childcare arrangers have them turning to your own children instead of following in line with the other clan cult minions makes you look disagreeable. Unreasonable. Unsubmitting disobedient. Unloyal to the cult clan patriarchy matriarchs planning.

Cursed cult roles routines ritual social postrating in family systems hierarchy where minions adult children siblings cousins in laws loyalty is demanding requisite minion posturing.

Programmed scheduled events from dawn until last dusk like cult cloning hierarchy demanded loyalty even if it were going to an evening of softball or boating and not a trip to the temple. Cult roles expectations in huge gathered Gutting routed routines betwixt mother and child as obviously as a fish gets gutted. All for the cult. Carefully placed parental childcare routine skills trained habituated cite study related skills shredded tossed torn by a cult patriarchy socially demanded member minion loyalty .

So exasperating cult planners wouldn't put wouldn't place a safety fall back into members programming. Something simple such as: safety first, at all times and in all places in all contexts colors temperatyres weathers pain or comforts: safety first