I've been around this board and have gathered information I know missionaries would never share. The result is I'm still drawn to many of the beliefs of the latter day saints, but am not interested in the authoritarian invasive realtionship with a bishop or other members. I dont need a sitter to oversee my behavior and actions. As a matter of fact, Id be furiously mad if some official asked me what SO and In were doing in bed. I dont care for the police state in my church, and that's the picture thats been painted, sadly.
It seems like for now I'll just attend here and there and be non descript abpit baptism (aka," I won't entertain inquiries or I'll be vague "We'll see...")

What attracts me so strongly to mormonism is the fact they seem to be the only religion that admits faith without works is dead. I absolutey hate the born again Christian model and ways so that is in no way an option. I also have noticed Mormons are the only ones fighting the Marxist/Feminist/pro booze/ pro pornography /Gender neutral society thay glorifies thug life, drugs, sexual deviance, promiscuity,etc. It's not perfect, but I feel out of other options. Which is wny I ask is there anything similar but less" in your business"? Thx, folks.

I went to " I don't give #^@&." I never understood the fixation on god and belief in god, all my life.

Sure, I tried mormonism again for a few years as an adult after ditching it as a kid, served a mission, temple married and 2 years through BYU (quit again for good for my last 2 years), but ultimately, it's always been the same feeling when I've left....I really don't like church, don't give a rats @$$ about god or what to believe concerning god.

All I ever felt as a kid or adult when walking away from church was relief and a sense of peace.

Jaelle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Mormons are
> the only ones fighting the Marxist/Feminist/pro
> booze/ pro pornography /Gender neutral society
> thay glorifies thug life, drugs, sexual deviance,
> promiscuity,etc. It's not perfect, but I feel out
> of other options. Which is wny I ask is there
> anything similar but less" in your business"? Thx,
> folks.

I think a good start would be to back away from the idea that there are that many people who are pro all the things you listed above, or that most people in any one of these groups are all rabid extremists. Otherwise you will tend to think of a huge mass of crazy people drying to destroy everything you hold dear. There are plenty of people outside of the Mormon church who see at least some harm in the things you list.

Like Jonny the Smoke, "I went to 'I don't give #^@&'" also.

I'm a grown up. It's 2017. I would be ashamed to not know how to be a kind and good person on my own. I would be embarrassed that I need a church to tell me how.

On top of that, I am a grown up and again, it is 2017, and I live in a fairly advanced society and I happen to know how to have a social life and engage people I like, make friends, and bring some fun to the party. And, in my circles, I am completely free to be completely myself.

You need to deprogram your Mormon Brain.

"I also have noticed Mormons are the only ones fighting the Marxist/Feminist/pro booze/ pro pornography /Gender neutral society thay glorifies thug life, drugs, sexual deviance, promiscuity,etc."

If you think everyone is promoting all of this you are delusional. Wherever you are getting your information from has an agenda and you don't even realize it.

Id be interested to know where you live and what you read. Education level? What sources do you use to get your news and form your opinions?

Everything I listed has become somewhat normalized in our society. Simply watching many TV shows, reading magazines, and being on social media has displayed this clearly. I read everything from a variety of sources. BBC, AP,Local news. I'm also into Camille Paglia and Jordan Peterson. I avoid fox and msnbc because of their obvious political agendas. I also form my opinions by observation and life experience. I live in the SW and have attened some college. I don't posses the belief that most are accepting of the things I listed, but many seemingly are. I want to live a pure and happy life and not be tangled into the increasingly depraved ways of the world. No amount of name calling or questioning my educational background will bring me to a place of ease regarding the sick ways of tbe world.

Get a degree from a real University.

You are so manipulated and you don't even know it.

Hedning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get a degree from a real University.

I opted for a music certificate from inenod the top programs in the US. It is a real university. I've also taken other classes for enjoyment (psych, human services, etc.) I haven't been manipulated by anyone. I actually used to believe differently until experience changed my beliefs. I imagine you're referring to to the PC university culture that pushes an anti white pro gay agenda, I've already experienced it. My SO also attended albeit a four year program and experienced the same.
>
> You are so manipulated and you don't even know
> it.
I rarely if ever watch tv and we dont have cable because of this. I also have spent mire time here on this site than any other media!
I'm "manipulted" because my beliefs don't fit with your's is the message I'm getting. I had different beliefs at one time and came around for various personal reasons. I don't even discuss these beliefs with anyone in my life except my SO and a few family members, all of which are atheist. Wbat are you talking about?

Jaelle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I
> imagine you're referring to to the PC university
> culture that pushes an anti white pro gay agenda,

Gee, you aren't white and straight, are you?
Who would have guessed?

You're certainly entitled to your own beliefs, whatever they are. As the rest of us are entitled to regard yours as both nonsense and disgusting.

Just remember, bible jesus says that you're going to be judged the same way you judge others...so if you believe in bible jesus, I wouldn't count on getting cut any slack.


Enjoy.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jaelle Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I
> > imagine you're referring to to the PC
> university
> > culture that pushes an anti white pro gay
> agenda,
>
> Gee, you aren't white and straight, are you?
> Who would have guessed?
>
> You're certainly entitled to your own beliefs,
> whatever they are. As the rest of us are entitled
> to regard yours as both nonsense and disgusting.
>
> Just remember, bible jesus says that you're going
> to be judged the same way you judge others...so if
> you believe in bible jesus, I wouldn't count on
> getting cut any slack.
>
>
> Enjoy.

I am not judging anyone, but tired of deviance of a sexual nature being normalized. I'm also tired of anti-white sentiments being pushed in universities and elementary schools. I think we can coexist racially without demonizing any one race. God doesn't approve of this? I doubt that very much.

What is this deviance of sexual nature that's being promoted and anti-white sentiments being promoted in universities and elementary schools?

https://makingmusicfun.net/htm/printit_award.htms


I'm sorry I had you pegged for having attended a few classes at a community college in Phoenix, I had no idea you were so sophisticated.

Why do you see the world as sick? Why can't you see it as you choose to see it? Look at Joseph Smith. He had a painful childhood. His family was swindled out of their farm into into what wasn't too far from indentured servitude. He had a severe leg infection that needed painful surgery. He chose to take those experiences as a reason to believe that the world is sick. He could have chosen to believe that the world is basically good and didn't deserve to be taken for a ride for his personal benefit.

The world is not sick. The world is a miracle. We may live in troubled times, but they are much less troubled than times passed. Growing pains.

Excuse me? The world is not sick? I beg to differ on this Mr. Babylon.......Doesn't society view child molestation as a perversion? Criminal sexual deviate conduct with a minor. It IS a sick world we live in. We are forced to view others' views as normal while we personally view these perversions as sick. That is the way of the world. JS glamorized it teaching it-(polygamy, et al.) to his brothers/buddies. Raping a 14 y/o girl is deviant conduct. She is a child/adolescent who is intimidated by 'avenging angels with swords' gonna kill her and her family If she doesn't comply? What a whack job JS was!
When he died it must have been a relief to escape the hate of so many people he offended by scamming their money, raping their daughters and copying and breaking Masonic rites. He would never make it to 85 y/o.to see the Lord.
The scary world we live in now needs to be healed somehow. Muslims will continue to destroy gay Americans because they view it- being gay-as a punishable crime. Also,they really don't like our scantily clad women running around in provacative clothing to entice and beguile their men and bring them to shame. We need some shame to be decent people again. Get along with everybody. Find some happy medium.
The world is a miracle indeed! But these are very troubled times much more so than in the past. I live in a very rough city where crime is rampant. Old people getting mugged and killed in their own homes....crazy criminals.
When I was little, in this town, we never locked the doors at night. We felt like we had a safe neighborhood and town to live in. Not so anymore.
So, it has come to my rational judgement to propose the ONLY way we can know if Mormonism is real, or any religion for that matter, is for The Man, JC, Himself, personally come from heaven (or the north countries in a chariot of fire) and sets things straight! I personally hate disposing of all the family genealogy and wish it could at least be real enough to recognized by the LORD?

I've been around a while - gotta tell you that most groups that believe in values that match (edit to add: the way you describe) yours do a ton of peer-pressure to make sure that all their members live those values.

Do you need such a group to help you stick to your beliefs? Is that what you are trying to find? If so, in my experience, they will all pry into your personal business. They aren't exactly "live and let live" kinds of groups.

If you are confident in living your own personal values without the need to enforce your values on others, there are a variety of groups of generally good people who are not going to insist on getting into your business.

What are you actually trying to find?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2017 04:30PM by Never Mo but raised Fundie.

I'm trying to find like minded people and a community that shares my values.also, a spiritual life! I don't need encouragement to stick to any of y values. ThatThat's wnat conscience is for :)

Jaelle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm trying to find like minded people and a
> community that shares my values.also, a spiritual
> life! I don't need encouragement to stick to any
> of y values. ThatThat's wnat conscience is for :)


If you are looking for religious that match what you say, may I suggest you look at Pentecostal Holiness or Church of God or Southern Baptist or Free Will Baptist or similar sects? They tend to have tight-knit worship groups who would offer the spiritual/social experience you appear to be seeking.

If you are looking for a religious group that does actual good works (for others, not themselves), then something like the United Methodist Church is a good place. I'm not sure if you would like their moral code though - I don't think they generally condemn alcohol nor people who are gay.

Or - like others have said, it may be that Mormonism or Seventh Day Adventist actually is the right place for you.

(Edit to add that Islam combines many of your social values with charitable works. That might be a direction as well.)
(Edit to add that you might find that groups like preppers meet your needs.)

Good luck in your search. I understand the desire to "fit in" with a group. I disagree with your choices but I recognize your right to believe what you want and I know many people who match your beliefs.

(I grew up Christian Fundie - in a Bible Believing church every single time the doors were open for many many years.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2017 11:44AM by Never Mo but raised Fundie.

My faith in the interventionist God of Mormonism and all of Judeo Christianity went down in a giant ball of flames on 9-11, which I experienced as a major existential crisis.
I was as much of a Nihlist as Nietzsche at that point in my life. It wasn't enough for me to raise my children as Nihlists.
I ended up searching out what worked for my intellectual heroes, Einstein, Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, Sam Harris, which led me to the Pantheism of Spinoza, Epicurous and the Stoicism of Aurelius.
My world view now is closest to Michio Kaku, Sam Harris and Niel deGrasse Tyson. Not sure what to call it, but Dudeism works pretty well for me.
Mind if I do a J?

Hmmm,interesting stuff! I feel like I'm a pantheist in some ways.

You got any half and half?

"What attracts me so strongly to mormonism is the fact they seem to be the only religion that admits faith without works is dead"

I find that "works" does not require faith.

"What attracts me so strongly to mormonism is the fact they seem to be the only religion that admits faith without works is dead"

Catholics and Eastern Orthodox would strongly disagree with this sentiment.

Catholics believe that a wafer turns into the body of their God when put into their mouths. Forgive me if I do not take what they believe seriously.

" I also have noticed Mormons are the only ones fighting the Marxist/Feminist/pro booze/ pro pornography /Gender neutral society thay glorifies thug life, drugs, sexual deviance, promiscuity,etc."

So it doesn't matter that the basic claims of mormonism are absolutely, demonstrably false...they share your viewpoints on certain things, so they're OK.

Is that really what you're saying?

I would gently suggest you begin by examining your own statement above, which is -- like mormonism -- absolutely, demonstrably false. Then work on figuring out some facts about the real world. Then go find someplace to "fit in."

Just a suggestion.

Good luck.

Bear in mind I've seen all of this in the real world with my own eyes. I'm not saying wbat you assumed at all. I'm still reading the teachings so I've yet to arrive at an answer as to whether I believe every last teaching to be true. Im speaking of what I know which is of their general beliefs differing from those that have led to societal downfall. Does anyone actually believe in every aspect of their religion. It seems your comments come from a good place, but maybe ive been misunderstood. Also, that II'm not asking anyone sgree with me. Let's be honest everyone sees their own beliefs as "factual" and can often find statistics to back them up. Confirmation bias...

Well, if you're a crusader, Mormonism might be for you. There's no better way to know your enemy than by joining. Plan on a short stint, don't make close friends, and get out. Consider it a living laboratory of abnormal psychology.

Jaelle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>I also have noticed Mormons are
> the only ones fighting the Marxist/Feminist/pro
> booze/ pro pornography /Gender neutral society
> thay glorifies thug life, drugs, sexual deviance,
> promiscuity,etc. It's not perfect, but I feel out
> of other options. Which is wny I ask is there
> anything similar but less" in your business"? Thx,
> folks.

*sigh* I don't even know where to begin on this. Why don't you start by trying to give us your definition of what exactly you mean by throwing out all these terms that most people barely understand what they actually mean and please do give some examples.

Op stated: "What attracts me so strongly to mormonism is the fact they seem to be the only religion that admits faith without works is dead. I absolutey hate the born again Christian model and ways so that is in no way an option. I also have noticed Mormons are the only ones fighting the Marxist/Feminist/pro booze/ pro pornography /Gender neutral society thay glorifies thug life, drugs, sexual deviance, promiscuity,etc. It's not perfect, but I feel out of other options.
________________________________________________________

Sounds like you have already made up your mind ----- you are looking for something that 'attracts' you. Doesn't sound like my beliefs or God at all ----- you won't find mine.

Hello! News Flash!! Why not try finding God or a 'belief system' that is 'true'!!! Isn't that 'intuitively' your goal when finding a 'faith'.

I have studied for almost 2 years and find none of the religions are true ----- sounds like JS!

None have any idea of the God I have found and many doubt the 'spiritual gifts' available to 'truth seekers'.

Meditation and/or prayer is important. I got on 'my track' spiritually by actually praying/meditating and asking for information! What a novel idea! Just be 'open' for any guidance even if it is different from what 'attracts' you or something you 'want to believe'.

I say if you 'seriously' meditate/pray for 'spiritual' guidance and information for say 15 days and nothing happens why believe in any God or any set of beliefs. Join a social club.

Additionally, just a note. There are people that claim to see the future (visions, premonitions, dreams), talk to those passed, review past lives, yes the 'mystic' crowd. I also have 'experienced' these gifts because I have asked for them.

Guess what based on my studies the majority belief among those people is very similar to mine. What a 'coincidence'!

That doesn't mean some/many may be 'fakes'. That is one of my first clues is to ask them what they believe. If they start talking religion start heading out the door. They in fact, still may have some 'skills' but why deal with someone who has questionable basic 'truth' facts.

Spiritist, I appreciate your tips. I have a meditation practice, but not as regularly as I should. I'm taking my time as well on this exploration. I have tried a few religions over the years and found myself unsatisfied.

I thought it was interesting that you would bring up the faith without works scripture. My husband thinks similarly to you, but I found such relief leaving that. I'm as about straight-laced as you get and I still felt guilty all the time. Was I doing enough "works?" Was I valiant enough? At one time in my life my son became seriously ill. He could not be left home alone. My husband was the young men's president. The Bishop thought this would be an OK time to call me to be the primary president. Fortunately I used common sense and said no. It's nuts but I felt guilty for a long time afterwards. Now I believe that good works come naturally from faith in God, or just the goodness of people's hearts. The other thing I noticed that not only was I less judgmental of myself, but also of others. There isn't this absolute bar of worthiness (temple recommend). I believe God judges people very individually. I really think most people are doing the best they can.

I agree,Leslie. I don't equate works with church service, but how we are in the world with ourselves and others.

I changed my mind about any need for a religion or organized religion of any kind in my life. After many years of living different types of Christianity/Mormonism, I found I no longer wanted any dogma, or ecclesiastical authority in my life.
With the time I have left, (as I am well into my seventh decade) I plan to live my life around the basics: make nice, love one another, treat others with kindness, and laugh a lot!
Don't need rituals or religion to do any of that.

I agree in many ways, Suzie. I have felt the need for the spiritual in my life.

Have you checked out the good folks at Westboro Baptist?

Sounds like you and the Mormon church might be a good fit. Remember, people tend to believe in a God that matches their own values.

The Mormon god teaches fear and judgement which sounds exactly like what you are looking for. Plus, you won't have anyone standing up for women there. An extra bonus is they hate everything you do.

I just hope you never have a gay child. You would make his/her life hell.

After leaving the cult my only focus is on having a relationship with God directly, no church interference needed. Try it.

A Perrenial Mugwump.

Jaelle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> What attracts me so strongly to mormonism is the
> fact they seem to be the only religion that admits
> faith without works is dead. I absolutey hate the
> born again Christian model and ways so that is in
> no way an option. I also have noticed Mormons are
> the only ones fighting the Marxist/Feminist/pro
> booze/ pro pornography /Gender neutral society
> thay glorifies thug life, drugs, sexual deviance,
> promiscuity,etc. It's not perfect, but I feel out
> of other options. Which is wny I ask is there
> anything similar but less" in your business"? Thx,
> folks.


Wow. You're really conflating a lot of stuff there.

Remember, under the Mormon fake CULT you were taught coffee was an evil drug; that showing your shoulders as a woman was lewd; that the only legitimate human sex was between a man and woman married in the Mormon temple.

Maybe some of your beliefs you feel the church are defending are just as skewed and extreme as the ones you know now were false.

Smells like a TBM troll; let's stop feeding it.

Judaism is not faith without works oriented, but it is good deeds oriented.

And being righteous for its own sake.

There are many opportunities within Jewish communities to do service.

Since leaving Mormonism I've found it really difficult to want to join another religion, and thus have refrained from jumping into another frying pan. With Judaism I didn't have to, since I was born Jewish (who didn't know it for a very long time,) so didn't need to convert. I still haven't "joined" the community where I worship by signing my name to its membership rolls.

Don't want to commit myself anywhere. Mormonism sucks that desire right out of ya once you've been burned really good by a cult.

But it has the right stuff if I were going to join somewhere out of the various denominations I've been to, and that's been quite a few.

Judaism is actually something I also looking into. I'm about the good deeds. Thx for your input

God cannot be defined nor explained by a man or woman. Every religion is made up. Whether there is something grander than 'this place' cannot be known. Just live the Golden Rule. That's enough.

The "Golden Rule" was given by Jesus of Nazareth, who used it to summarize the Torah: "Do to others what you want them to do to you. This is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets" (Matthew 7:12 NCV, see also Luke 6:31).
Golden Rule - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

ETA: It was the JEWS who gave us the Golden Rule!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2017 09:36AM by Amyjo.

Actually the Golden Rule is fundamentally flawed. It assumes that everyone wants to be treated the same -- which they don't.

A better alternative would be the so-called "Platinum Rule," which states: "Do unto others as they would have you do unto them." Get to know a person and figure out how they want to be treated, instead of just assuming they'd like to be treated how you would treat yourself.

"Marxist/Feminist/pro booze/ pro pornography /Gender neutral society thay glorifies thug life, drugs, sexual deviance, promiscuity,etc"

Either you know me or sometime tipped you off, come on, admit it!

You're having a Turkish! And ripping all the fun out of life! Best wishes with your desire to worship and be a slave for eternity to a fascist empire-building mass-murdering sociopath.

Your post is high irony, yes! Ha ha you got me

Please reconcile these statements:

>>>"As a matter of fact, Id be furiously mad if some official asked me what SO and In were doing in bed. I dont care for the police state in my church, and that's the picture thats been painted, sadly."

>>>"I also have noticed Mormons are the only ones fighting the Marxist/Feminist/pro booze/ pro pornography /Gender neutral society thay glorifies thug life, drugs, sexual deviance, promiscuity,etc."

______________


I'm reading that no one should have authority over you, but you're seeking a religious order that takes authority over others who agree with your definition of "morality."

Do I have that right?

You also state that you believe in "works" as a means to salvation. Would that be as an activist, spreading the true beliefs that lead to "salvation?"

If I read you correctly, I think that you're looking for this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology

All good questions that made me think..
I don't think anyone should have authority over anyone else. HOWEVER, I like the values and following them is my choice. There will always be deviance and depravity, but the idea of a group who stands against such things is appealing. Again, it's a choice which path one goes.

Good works is a phrase I equate with one who is kind and charitable. Activism isn't where my heart is especially because I equate it with rioting anymore.

I glanced at the link. Isnthat like a theocracy? I am an advocate of separation of church and state, and always have been. I'm also an advocate for freedom of and from religion. Please don't mistake my distaste for sleazy things and depraved behaviors for some extreme conservatism or the desire to live in a theocracy. Another example: I personally find abortion abhorrent (except in incest/rape), but no I don't believe it's my place to make such a decision when that life isn't mine. So, you've misread me quite a bit. Thus is what liberalism has done to people, make them believe anyone not into their agendas is a fascist zealot (meanwhile, they'd be well served to look in the mirror).

I essentially am happy following rules I've determined to be reasonable, but don't force others to take the same path.

Well, please forgive me if I misunderstood, but I still don't know your definitions for nearly everything you stated as being undesirable, nearly all of them having to do with sex (as in male or female), sexuality and the sexual behavior of others.

I understand that you don't want to stand against deviance and depravity on your own, would prefer to be in a group of like-minded individuals, but what do deviance and depravity specifically mean to you?

For example, I consider Joe Smith's behavior to be both deviant and depraved toward both males and females. There are those (Mormons) who would hold my opinion to be deviant and depraved.

If by those terms you mean illegal behaviors, such as rape and pedophilia, you should be warned that criminals against children know that they will be sheltered by many churches, and almost all churches are patriarchal, as is the bible (which even states that rape of a young women as preferable to rape of a man). Many churches find ways to blame rape victims for their own rapes, or otherwise hold them accountable for sexual crimes committed against them. It is stupefying how many people STILL want to believe that rape is about sex, when it's about the power and control required to "excite" a rapist.

Promiscuity - Some would consider a second marriage, living with another without being married, or even sleeping with a noncohabiting partner to be promiscuous, while I consider none of those things to be promiscuous. If you mean teenagers effing like rabbits, babies having babies for taxpayers to support, I'm with you. Babies are inadequate parents, and should never have full and supported custody - there ought to be some sort of qualifying test for minors to have custody - not the "have a baby to get your own crash pad, more babies = more money" system we have now. It's completely negligent - of the "adults" running things.

If you want to join a group who "speaks out" against consensual sex between adults, regardless of their choices, you want to be a part of attempting to control what goes on in others' relationships and bedrooms.

You don't think it your place to "speak out" against abortion, but would you join a group whom not only does so, but throws huge sums of money and political power against it in laws and budgets enacted by a lawmakers, of whom about 90% identify as Christian? If that doesn't disturb you, then I think I was pretty close to the mark. If it does disturb you, then I would agree that you don't want to belong to a theocracy.

And what is a non-feminist, anyway? I don't think that one need be either a feminst or misogynist, as in "pick a side," but to me, feminism is nothing more than a desire for equal justice in major life aspects. As a feminist, I argue against the very unfair treatment of men in family courts as a completely twisted system, seeking popularity rather than objectivity and fairness. To me, feminism is the embodiment of what a "fair (equal) and righteous (truth-seeking) mother (or father)" would want for his or her children. As a feminist, I think we should exercise due caution in the planet we leave for our children, with which they will need to contend. What's feminism to you?

I do agree that the term has been hijacked by two primary extreme groups - misandrists and the alt-right.

Thug mentality - if by that you mean gang activity and rioting, then I don't know a single civil group who doesn't speak put against those things - your choices are wide open. If you mean "offensive" music and/or civil discourse, uncomfortable as it may be to learn about, I don't consider either to be "thug." I'm totally at a loss as to what it may mean to you. Criminal behavior is defined by laws, and I'm not sure I would be able to find a law that uses the word "thug." Maybe someone can prove me wrong.

I think it's the very broad terms you chose that led me in a "theocracy" direction. Whether you know it or not, they are the very words used by those seeking to legislate morality, i.e., establish a theocracy. Whether you know it or not, your language is full of red flags.

In any case, welcome to the board.

The Nazarene church might be a good fit for you. Very conservative. Strong focus on community service. Low on arm twisting.

The Campbellite churches of Christ believe that both faith and works are necessary for salvation. They are probably where Joseph Smith got the idea, since Sidney Rigdon used to work with Alexander Campbell before he converted to Mormonism. All of the churches Joseph tried attending besides them taught faith alone.