No Word on their faith/ Religion, does anyone want to check?

I'm very sorry for victim & her family.

(All) people should Learn & Live LOVE: Kindness, Honesty, & Respect for others, Notably AWOL in tscc :(


Name & city just released: Kristy Manzanares of Santa Clara, UT.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2017 09:26PM by GNPE.

Santa Clara's a suburb of St. George.

She was a beautiful person. Very tragic loss for her three daughters. Her husband is right, his life is over. Their daughters are basically orphans from here on out.

Allegedly the husband said "she wouldn't stop laughing at him" before he killed her.

Margaret Atwood, anyone?

Margaret Atwood?

It's from "The Handmaid's Tale" : "“Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them."

It's an excellent, although terrifying, book especially for women that have left a patriarchal cult. The series does it justice as well and I cannot recommend both enough. Even got several Mormon women to read it to plant a seed hopefully.

Husband & Wife, and other couples, should be considered PARTNERS in the family endeavors, NOT "MAN IN CHARGE, MAKES ALL THE IMPORTANT/FINAL DECISIONS, which is the LDS model; Will They Ever Learn?

There is nowhere in the news accounts that either of them are LDS. She didn't wear garments because she favored clothing that don't require them. I didn't get the sense they were/are even LDS. Or if they are, they are/were inactive.

Don't make this about religion. It's not. It's about a hothead husband who lost control.

Domestic abuse crosses all socio-economic lines in society. It isn't limited to any one religion, race, class of people.

Many former mormon men and nonmos especially in Utah have the mindset that women can be punished for not upholding and honoring their maleness sufficiently.

He probably does have a Mormon background.
Remember, in their temples the sisters are put under covenant to refrain from loud laughter.
She did not obey him.

Actually, religion is THE common variable here. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reveal that one in three women in Utah will experience domestic violence, compared to one in four nationwide. Also

A recent study by the Utah Department of Health found that approximately 32 percent of all homicides in the state were domestic violence-related. On average, there is a domestic violence-related murder every 33 days, and approximately three domestic violence-related suicides every month.

Even if they weren't Mormon, I think that living in a predominately Mormon world places an inordinate pressure on a non-Mormon person/couple/family that could manifest itself in a violent rage as a result of constantly having to 'hold it in' around Mormons - lest ye be judged...

They were on an Alaskan cruise with their three teenage daughters to celebrate the couple's anniversary when he snapped.

I'm wondering if it had more to do with her success as a realtor? She'd moved up last year from working for Re Max to Sotheby's luxury properties in St George. Her career was really taking off. Many guys feel threatened by successful women, where she hadn't been before.

To murder her for laughing at him? Well that's really no defense at all. He's screwed.

btw, I believe the general policy of tscc is to Not take a discipline action against an accused; probation might be a more recently used action in lieu of Xing, I hear it's becoming more common.

You know what's really screwed? If they're *not* LDS, their Utah LDS neighbors will say it wouldn't have happened if they followed the restored gospel....

^^^^^

almost ditto if they're inactive, btw

Her husband is a Facebook member of Mormonstories podcasts, so most likely he is inactive or an exmormon, but who knows?

Also, if the guy has Narcissistic Personality Disorder tendencies, her laughing at him would have triggered what is called narcissistic rage, from the wounding of his ego.

The news reported that one of the daughters said, "I knew he would do this some day". It sounds like he was a long-term and violent abuser.

It's times like this that I tend to believe in capital punishment. He was caught in the act and he confessed to it. Maybe he should die too. But I can see how being imprisoned for the rest of his life is punishment beyond compare. Very mixed feelings on this.

Well, hers is over too.

His lovely wife should've left him years ago if he was abusive throughout their marriage.

She in no way deserved to be murdered by him, but it's often fear that keeps these women with such men for their lives or welfare, when the opposite is true.

Topper Wrote:

"Notice how he said his life was over, with no feelings for his wife's life."


Good observation. That's remorse for self, not for the criminal act or for her having lost her life. He cried when arraigned. Those were tears for self, a major tool of narcissism. Those tears mislead the funtional, and ever more is being learned about dysfunctional behavior.

It has been reported that one of the daughters stated that she knew her father would eventually murder her mother (paraphrased). At this point, it's difficult to imagine that being anything other than a statement of her father's past behavior. -I can't imagine her meaning that a kind, gentle man would someday behave other than in kind gentleness.

He is reported to have once been a bounty hunter and then a sports trainer.

Other reports indicate no hint of being active LDS, but nothing about possible history.

The creep was trying to throw her body overboard when another family member stopped him. I assume had he been successful, he would have then attempted to clean up after himself, and blame any injuries, were she found, on the fall (or whatever, like an unknown male admirer and/or assailant). He could have said that they had had an argument, and he assumed that she was off with a family member or an "unknown boyfriend." Any searches the daughters' would have made - he would have had to control that, kept them occupied for a day or so, or disembark if possible.

"My life is over," especially when coupled with the subsequent act of trying to hide the crime, pretty much reveals his nature.

"She wouldn't stop laughing at me."

Her FB showed likes of wine-related sites. I can imagine that they both had had least something to drink. Given the daughter's prediction, an abused woman will control the laughter and derision she is able to control.

He sentenced her to death for her having a case of the (wine?) giggles. My hope is that the prosecuter is able to keep him away - far away - from women, especially his daughters, for a very long time.

Even an untrained child was able to predict his future behavior. An experienced, trained judge should be able to do the same.



...And, if I take this one tiny step further, I easily can see why the narcissistic, fragile, tiny male egos of LDS leaders would be intolerant of "loud laughter," and why they must hide any rational explanation of that "rule."

Anyone who can murder his wife so wantonly in cold blood without regard for her or their children goes beyond narcissism. Most narcissists don't ever murder another.

It's sociopaths who do that.

He'd have to be a sociopath to have no remorse for his actions other than getting caught.

I doubt he can use the defense of "heat of the moment" either. His own wife laughing isn't exactly the kind of offense to arouse passion to murder.

He may have been thinking about it a long time before he actually carried it out. That's something the prosecution will maybe show, especially if he has a history of domestic abuse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2017 10:40AM by Amyjo.

Rage kills. Don't worry, this guy's cellies won't take kindly to him.

This is going to get over-the-top publicity and hopefully more people will leave their abusive partners. "Until death do we part" doesn't mean "until he (or she) kills you".

The same applies to your relationship to the church. You make covenants in the temple, but they're designed to bind you to a psychologically abusive church. You can and should leave.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2017 11:09AM by bradley.

He's being charged in the US District Court for the District of Alaska.

So it's a federal offense. I was wondering if it would be a state or federal crime.

Yeah, he's screwed alright.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/27/20/42BF4F9400000578-4734962-image-a-67_1501183206466.jpg

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He's being charged in the US District Court for
> the District of Alaska.
>
> So it's a federal offense. I was wondering if it
> would be a state or federal crime.

The charge is homicide, and its being "a Federal offense" is a matter of jurisdiction (at sea), not a higher order of homicide. But Federal law allows for the death penalty. Alaska does not.

AmyJo (above), "heat of the moment" is not a defense, but constitutes mitigating circumstances--and very weak ones, at that. So many jurisidictions have varying definitions of "homicide," "manslaughter," "intent," "aggravated," "second degree," etc. and I'm not familiar with Federal law on this. (I was just a grunt cop, dealt with homicide rather rarely.) But common law holds that "homicide, first degree" involves premeditation and "malice aforethought," whereas "second degree" is spontaneous anger and rage, whether provoked or not.

Just read where the maximum sentence under federal guidelines for murder is either life in prison or the death penalty.

If Alaska doesn't have the death penalty, he's probably wishing he could've waited a little longer. Utah also has the death penalty. Maybe he tried to plan it for when they were on the cruise to evade that without checking on the laws of the sea.

Stupid oaf. The mother of his children, on their wedding anniversary, and that is how he rewards her. It could well be pre-meditated, though he'll likely plead something else.

He deserves to rot in jail.

It's the girls who are to be pitied now. They are older teenagers. Maybe the older one/s will care for the younger until they're on their own. That happens sometimes in rare cases like this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2017 03:18PM by Amyjo.

One thing to see it was on a cruise ship up to Alaska (my daughter works for Princess, but she is up at Denali) and I've been on that cruise twice.

Then to find out it was a woman from UTAH!!! What does that say about the mormon state? Whether they are active mormon or not, it says something about the state.

Oh, they reported on one news program this morning that this is the 13th domestic abuse murder of a female this year in Utah.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2017 12:54PM by cl2.

I was thinking about your daughter, cl2. I know that she works for Princess.

It is a terrible thing for the couple's daughters. Now they have lost both parents in one fell swoop.

I had EVERY REASON IN THE BOOK to murder my ex and I didn't. He pushed my buttons any time I saw him. He and his boyfriend. If I'd call for money for the kids for lunch (he wasn't paying any money), his boyfriend would be screaming in the background that they needed to put me in a mental health ward. His boyfriend wanted me to disappear so that they could be a little family. He wanted my kids.

My ex never spoke a kind word to me in years and years. I should have killed him. Really. He deserved it for what he did to us.

But I didn't. So I'll speculate all I want when someone murders someone else. I don't care what she did, she didn't deserve to die and he didn't have the right legally to do so.

I guess we can all be like Barbara Broderick, who was on trial at the time my ex had left me. I'd cheer when she'd do things like ran her SUV into the front door of the house they used to live in. The worst thing I did to my ex is to tear up the marriage certificate.

My ex is breaking up with his boyfriend right now and my ex trashed the "office" that they rent and where his boyfriend is living right now (not legally). He tore everything apart and took pictures . . .

And I never even went that far. Now my ex lives downstairs.

I do believe my ex deserved to die. My dad always told my sister that he thought he'd be dead of AIDS by now before my dad died. My family was always cordial to my ex and now they are nice to him and accept that we are friends and get along.

So I'll speculate all I want. I really should have shot my ex right between the eyes for what he put ALL OF US THROUGH, but I CHOSE NOT TO.

This was supposed to be posted under the "how dare you speculate" posts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2017 01:20PM by cl2.

Lots of speculation here when so little is known.

Exactly what I was thinking. The jury here has already reached a verdict and is considering the sentence while the facts are not even all in.

Every night on the news in the city I live they interview friends, family and co-workers of a person who was killed or murdered. Every time without fail the victim is described in saintlike terms. They were always,"the nicest person who would do anything for anybody, who loved their family, who worked hard to make a good life, a who lit up a room when they entered and made everyone around them feel good." Every time.

There is always more to it all than what is immediately evident. Sometimes people are expert at pushing buttons while maintaining a lovely facade. Sometimes people have secrets and secret lives. Sometimes people push each other past their limits. I have no idea what all the details are but my hunch is it is complicated and I would like to wait and see how it unfolds rather than sew the case up already.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every night on the news in the city I live they
> interview friends, family and co-workers of a
> person who was killed or murdered. Every time
> without fail the victim is described in saintlike
> terms. They were always,"the nicest person who
> would do anything for anybody, who loved their
> family, who worked hard to make a good life, a who
> lit up a room when they entered and made everyone
> around them feel good." Every time.

And every time some thug gets whacked we're told, "He had nothing to do with gangs!" "He was planning on marrying his (current) girlfriend" and "he was a loving father." "He was really a very good boy." "He was an aspiring rapper."

My favorite: "He was trying to turn his life around."

Somehow, coworkers and employers are never interviewed.

Good ones! You must live somewhere in a big city like I do to be able to add to the list like that. Haha.

I have seen a few co-workers interviewed, but yeah, that is usually not the case.

I think the motto is, "If you can't say anything good about the person, say it anyway," just to comfort the family and friends? I'm sure a few really were wonderful people, I just can't believe they all were such saints.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have seen a few co-workers interviewed, but
> yeah, that is usually not the case.

My point was, there were no coworkers to interview because they didn't have jobs.

Haha. Good one. Can't believe it went right over my head.

Oh, yes. As an urban school teacher I hear it on the news all the time. "He was such a good boy!" or, "He has never once been in trouble."

Ask the perpetrator's former teachers. They will give you the unvarnished version of the story.

My wife taught, and she has said the same thing many times. In particular I remember her saying when Casey Anthony was in the news that if Casey's former teachers were allowed to talk about her, we would almost certainly hear all about how she flaunted rules on a regular basis and how her parents constantly came to her defense and took her side against that of the school personnel. A person doesn't usually become such a blatant liar without having lied successfully to her parents, often flying in the face of common sense, for many years.

For the record, I'm not suggesting that ALL school personnel are infallible, but most of the time they have more important things to do than to make false charges against kids. If a parent hears basically the same thing from enough different teachers, he or she wuld be wise to at least consider that there might be some truth to what is being said.

Kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of speculation here when so little is known.


Right.

The perp's own words have yet to be "explained" by defense attorneys:

He was unable to otherwise protect himself from her laughter, which would have caused his death. It was self-defense.

He was dragging her bloody, dead body toward an ambulance for help.

His daughter's fears of her father were unfounded.



"Crime of passion" is another way to say, "I acted out my anger (like a child), and am therefore less culpable (just as children are)."

"Blame" mommy, a twinkie withdrawal, the third party (lovers, both sexes), tight pants, whatever deflects resposibility from a perp's behavior. Only those truly mentally unable to discern right from wrong, the real from the unreal, are deserving of legal mercy.

As a society, it is time to stop allowing adults to claim a child's defense, especially, when perpetrated against a family member.

Our collective, ongoing tolerance of "crimes of passion" is a tacit acceptance that "we" consider the victims as somehow culpable in their own murders. Both males and females use this so-called "justification," as if the victims are somehow less harmed (dead), and/or that those deaths are more "understandable" (greater mercy to killers) than those perpetrated by strangers. I would argue that such a murders are greater violations against the victims.

We can move forward as a society; we can fix our laws. We can treat murder as murder.


He murdered her. No speculation there.


http://huffpost.com/us/entry/5959776

It could have been perpetrated by laughing aliens -- or perhaps she needed an exorcism. Or an unholy ghost did it. We just can't know based on the evidence presented. There could have been a lot going on behind the veil. LOL!

Apart from a few basic facts we know very little...real motive, history, etc. Sounds like a ward council meeting to me.

Is it my imagination or are Mormons for likely to go to extremes in all kinds of things?

If you always "follow the prophet", you don't learn to deal with your emotions. You might not learn to stop escalation before it gets out of control. Just like our ape ancestors, our rage can reach incredible proportions if we let it. Normal people don't let it.

I think repressed feelings could play a part. Anger Management isn't just a funny movie.

She (the victim) was EX Mo, her name appears on the members list of another EX mo group.

I can imagine the RS scuttlebutt now. She ended up dead because of apostasy.

I'm a nevermo, so not an expert on garments, but I did notice in one of the pictures online that the husband was wearing what appeared to be two shirts--an "undershirt" under a short-sleeved polo-type or golf-type shirt--you know, the standard 3 button placket front, with the buttons open so you could definitely see that he had something on under it. Would that be what a man's garment top would look like? Just wondering...

I believe the TV image of her showed her wearing a sleeveless top/ blouse



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2017 02:03PM by GNPE.

set of circumstances (at least for those on this board) if the wife was exmo and the hubby was TBM.

The murder of a U.S. citizen is a federal crime outside U.S. boundaries;
Investigators will be seeking to determine the Time of death, then the ship's position by radar & GPS logs.

I have read that murdering a wife is not a capitol offense in Utah. Can't find it now. Does anyone know?

I think that I read that w/re to the Martin McNeill case.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I Very Much doubt that...

just sayin'

https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/ar.../#.WX9FI4EpBnE

Details from the passenger who used to be a neighbor.

Try this link instead:

https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2017/07/30/kss-st-george-resident-on-alaskan-cruise-recounts-the-night-kristy-manzanares-was-murdered/

I wish I could understand why he needs a public defender when he can evidently afford to take five people on a week-long Alaska cruise, staying in very nice suites.

He may not have been paying for it. His wife had a very good job. It was an extended family vacation so Grandparents may have subsidizing. Hard to know.

They were high school sweethearts, her and him. They moved to Southern Utah for her to attend college, and stayed - from northern Utah originally.

Don't believe they had much money. There are two go fund pages running concurrently, and her bank has an account to help with the girls education fund and for funeral expenses.