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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 01:28PM

I've been married to a white male for decades and he's saved my life several times and been a good steady kind support person in my life. I never could have thrived at this level of happiness without him and I appreciate him every day.

I can understand women, especially exmos, who have issues with older white males. However, I don't think it's fair to claim they're all biased or uncaring.

In my long years of being in the workforce, I had an equal number of unfair and helpful male and female bosses. In fact some of the female bosses tended to undercut other women more than some of the seasoned male bosses.

In the mormon church males are usually white and they're often arrogant and have a dominate attitude because of their priesthood training and mindset. I've seen some of this outside the church among weak male individuals as well.

This doesn't justify the way males are treated now on TV and in ads for insurance and in sitcoms. It seems to me that many men like my DH are discounted and demeaned because of discrimination. It happens with older females as well but to a lesser extent. I'm sad to see this attitude becoming so blatant and I'd hope my sister females would lash out at the "bad" white males in mormon leadership but be supportive of those males who honor and support equality among everyone.

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Posted by: csuprovograd ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 01:44PM

Big, old white male checking in.

Let the abuse commence.

Blame me for what you don't like in the world.

I got no more shits to give about people saying I caused all their problems, just by being born white...

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 02:57PM

"This doesn't justify the way males are treated now on TV and in ads for insurance and in sitcoms."

Yeah, but the most unrealistic thing is that most of the old, balding fat guys are married to smoking hot chicks. Those guys never had a shot with women like that when they were in their prime. Think Kevin James/ Leah Remini, Jim Belushi/Courtney Thorne Smith, Ed Oneill/Sofia Vergara, etc.

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Posted by: Anon4This ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 03:43PM

StillAnon, you make a good point, but I think you might not be aware of what's been happening in Western countries the past few years.

"Cis white males" have been getting an extraordinary amount of vitriol directed at them. It's absolutely bewildering. A few old white men having young hot wives in certain TV shows in the 1980's is an absolute minuscule part of the issue right now.

In the United States, Canada, Sweden, and some other countries, there are fast-growing groups of people who would genuinely love the white race to go extinct. It's like we've got a new version of the KKK forming. Since about 2013/2014 I saw this beginning.

And the most perplexing thing is, these groups seem to be getting funding from their Governments, and many of the leaders of these groups work at Universities. And their ideology has been widely accepted by the "elite" without question in just the space of a few years, and their ideology gets pushed through Hollywood movies and by mainstream news outlets. I just can't understand why this is happening.

Imagine if mormonism's ideology was getting pushed like this...

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 04:05PM

I'm a white male. So was my Dad, his Dad, etc. Let's take a look at our track record the past 400 years in America. Killed and kicked out Native Americans and stole their property. Been the dominant force in US government (still are). Denied rights to women, blacks, gays, etc. for centuries.Banned interracial marriage. Pretty much apply the Constitution to other White males unless forced to change. Run Wall Street, the Banking industry and most US corporations. If I were a minority, woman or gay in America, I don't think I'd trust them very much either. What you are witnessing is that White Males are becoming a minority after centuries of being the majority oppressors. Payback is a bitch.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 04:47PM

That makes no sense to me. Just because there were some bad white people in this country does not mean the innocent ones should accept the responsitility.

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Posted by: anagrammy ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 12:48PM

The problem is the great American habit of condemning a whole group for what a few individuals do.

We have done it for years and maybe it's just human nature, I don't know.

Old white males are getting bashed right now because it's their turn. They are in the spotlight because Trump is constantly demonstrating the fact that a rich white man with inherited money can be admired and become powerful IN SPITE of having poor character and being given a PASS for social morays the rest of us have to abide by.

It highlights white privilege and it's hard to resist condemning it.


Kathleen

PS. Your DH is a terrific old white guy, for sure!

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Posted by: Anon white malexxdb ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 06:16PM

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm a white male. So was my Dad, his Dad, etc.
> Let's take a look at our track record the past 400
> years in America. Killed and kicked out Native
> Americans and stole their property. Been the
> dominant force in US government (still are).
> Denied rights to women, blacks, gays, etc. for
> centuries.Banned interracial marriage. Pretty much
> apply the Constitution to other White males unless
> forced to change. Run Wall Street, the Banking
> industry and most US corporations. If I were a
> minority, woman or gay in America, I don't think
> I'd trust them very much either. What you are
> witnessing is that White Males are becoming a
> minority after centuries of being the majority
> oppressors. Payback is a bitch.

Payback to whom? I never killed anyone, never kicked anyone off their property, never stole anything. I don't run Wall Street, and I have no power to deny anyone their rights. I do my job, spend my money, and try to raise my kids. What is this payBACK you speak of?

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Posted by: Richard Foxe ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 07:41PM

White Privilege is something only realized in its absence. Yes, there are subcultures where whites may be suspected or even in danger, but that is often in reaction to the wholesale slighting of non-whites in mainstream white cultures. Wasn't even billionaire Oprah not let to see an expensive handbag because the clerk assumed she could not afford it? And what about racial profiling and shootings? Not the experience of all, but perhaps that simmering experience coming to a head...

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Posted by: Richard Foxe ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 08:22PM

As a white male, I take certain 'norms' for granted, not aware that these are elements of privilege. Two articles, one from 1989 and the other from 2015 show that despite those TV programs trying to shift the norms, maybe little has changed...except hopefully a growing awareness:

1989: https://nationalseedproject.org/white-privilege-unpacking-the-invisible-knapsack

2015: http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/11/lessons-white-privilege-poc/

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Posted by: Visitors Welcome ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 09:01AM

Richard Foxe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wasn't
> even billionaire Oprah not let to see an expensive
> handbag because the clerk assumed she could not
> afford it?

I think you mean Condoleezza Rice

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 05:27AM

One's skin tone doesn't make them better or worse than other shades of humans. Self hatred isn't healthy.

As I understand it, the owner of RfM for decades is a white male who has devoted much of his life to saving lives and promoting healthy esteem in readers and lurkers of every race. I think it's rather crass and unkind to demean him and my DH for their color.

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Posted by: thingsithink ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 06:17PM

But look what we ALL did to the neanderthals. We all carry the guilt of that great injustice.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 06:57PM

Dude, some of my best friends are Neanderthals.

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Posted by: Human ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 05:52PM

Someone please name any civilization on the planet, starting with ancient Egypt, that didn't kill and enslave people to establish themselves. Is there a large concentration of peoples anywhere on the planet that achieved dominance peacefully? Even the indigenous peoples of the Americas were constantly at war with each other for food and territory. It's the story of the human race.

If you want to blame something for "evil" in the world, blame our survival instinct and gene mutations that occur during the evolution process. Blame the development of our brains and our DNA.

Let's say that all non-caucasians wipe out the caucasian (white) population. Who will be left? Will those remaining be kind to each other? Will there be peace on earth and equality among the races? Of course not. Someone will always need to dominate. Even if all races eventually blend there will still be inequality. Why? Someone's got to be on top, making the rules and acquiring the wealth, ensuring the survival of their offspring.

At least progress has been made in this country as far as equality goes. It's not perfect, but it is progress.

White people are doing themselves a disservice with their over-the-top political correctness, almost apologizing for being white. I've noticed lately that advertisements on television for home security will only show white people as the bad guy; the robbers who break into your home are played by white actors. People of other races would be highly offended if they were shown as the "bad" people. So let's make the white person the bad guy. It's OK.

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Posted by: Human ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 05:55PM

I reposted the following post because I accidentally posted it as a reply further up in this thread.

Someone please name any civilization on the planet, starting with ancient Egypt, that didn't kill and enslave people to establish themselves. Is there a large concentration of peoples anywhere on the planet that achieved dominance peacefully? Even the indigenous peoples of the Americas were constantly at war with each other for food and territory. It's the story of the human race.

If you want to blame something for "evil" in the world, blame our survival instinct and gene mutations that occur during the evolution process. Blame the development of our brains and our DNA.

Let's say that all non-caucasians wipe out the caucasian (white) population. Who will be left? Will those remaining be kind to each other? Will there be peace on earth and equality among the races? Of course not. Someone will always need to dominate. Even if all races eventually blend there will still be inequality. Why? Someone's got to be on top, making the rules and acquiring the wealth, ensuring the survival of their offspring.

At least progress has been made in this country as far as equality goes. It's not perfect, but it is progress.

White people are doing themselves a disservice with their over-the-top political correctness, almost apologizing for being white. I've noticed lately that advertisements on television for home security will only show white people as the bad guy; the robbers who break into your home are played by white actors. People of other races would be highly offended if they were shown as the "bad" people. So let's make the white person the bad guy. It's OK

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Posted by: Anon4This ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 03:36PM

Hi Cheryl, I agree with your post.

The way "straight white males" have been treated in the media, in Hollywood movies, by far-left politicians, by university lecturers, by so-called civil rights activists, and so on, is alarming. It somehow gets very little backlash, whilst if any other demographic were treated in the same way there would be worldwide uproar, likely with the people involved becoming global hate figures and losing their job and being ridiculed in the press for years.

I really hope people don't get too carried away in hating "straight white males". Yes, you can get away with it, certain people will even praise you if you say "Kill all white men", but it's not morally right in my opinion. This can lead us to another Holocaust if there aren't people standing up and saying this kind of discrimination isn't acceptable.

I know especially as ex-mormons, we have had our lives ruined by a specific sub-set of "straight white males", but we shouldn't generalise against that entire demographic because of Gordon B. Hinckley, etc.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 03:46PM

What I see in Hollywood films is aging male stars who play the handsome single fella who's dating a woman half his age, or married to her. They NEVER pair a female of the same age to play the role.

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Posted by: nomonomo ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 03:43PM

I appreciate the OP's objectivity, but why not just consider each person as an individual, rather than being concerned about which categories they fall in to?

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Posted by: nomonomo ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 03:55PM

There's an advert that runs in my market that leaves me
dumbfounded. In it there's a geriatric dude in the swimming pool who's acting like a teenager, squirting water at what is presumably his young Asian wife.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2017 03:56PM by nomonomo.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 04:27PM

These days, that's not unrealistic because of the economy. A stable older guy is a big draw. Ultimately, women want security.

Also, in Asia older white guys are "a thing".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2017 04:28PM by bradley.

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Posted by: Bang ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 04:09PM

There is no doubt that we inherited a world that is largely misogynistic.

Many of the white males that are misogynistic were raised in environments that taught them to be misogynistic. A male raised in a very predominately Mormon environment will likely turn out to be misogynistic. It's not an excuse, but in a sense, they are victims as well.

Society needs to change, and that process takes time. There is no doubt that the US and other counties have come a long way from the days when women were considered property, to today, when a woman, based on the popular vote, should be our president. There is a lot of work still to be done.

One need also remember that women's rights would not have come as far as they have without the support of many white males.

Women would not be able to vote if it were not for white males that supported women's right to vote.

Right or wrong, constantly harping on how bad white males are may turn some white males that would otherwise support women's rights.

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Posted by: Anon... ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 05:20PM

I think there are many misogynistic mormon males, but I think they are a small minority. Some let the whole "priesthood power" thing go to their head, but most Mormon men I know are yes-men that can't say "no"...I'd say most are, to some extent, dominated by their wives. I know some here have had very bad experiences with abusive, misogynistic Mormon leaders, spouses, etc..., but, generally speaking, "misogynist" does not describe 99% of the Mormon men I've ever met.

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Posted by: Bang ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 05:55PM

It describes the vast majority that I have met. I does not have to be abusive and it can be very subtle, but to some extent, I find that most have some level of misogynistic views. Very few LDS relationships that I have seen even attempt to be an equal partnership.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 12:29PM


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Posted by: oregon ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 05:23PM

Having worked for Intel, our CEO who is 50+ white Male said point blank on a power point slide. From now on we will hire the following: African Americans, Hispanic, American Indians, Women of any race. That is it. Anyone have an issue with this? And so for the past 4 yrs this has been the marching orders. I was laid off last June. Sickening.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 05:29PM

Sure, let them give their power to the likes of Nvidia, Samsung and ARM. They've sown the wind for years.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 05:35PM

I think fairness requires hired the best qualified person for any open position.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 06:26PM

Intel replaces 10% of its workforce every year. If you're old and salary-heavy, you can go. If you're H1B, they've got you by the balls and can demand 80 hour weeks. A company needs a combination of old wisdom and new blood to compete in the marketplace. If they sell out, they lose their vision.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 06:50PM

Workers need to be able, ready and willing to do their jobs well and with consistency. Unqualified workers detract from all of their coworkers and undermine all of us daily.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 07:03PM

Management has a responsibility to its workers to help grow them in their jobs. People aren't replaceable cogs. Deep tribal knowledge is very hard to replace. If the VPs don't understand how to lead breathing humans, it's a management problem.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 10:45PM

To be competent, dedicated and diligent to those who pay their salary and to those they serve or deal with on the job. No one should take a job unless they're willing to give value for a job well done.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 12:55AM

It is an unfortunate reality that some workers don't work out. Others slide into a kind of complacency: "You see Bob, it's not that I'm lazy. It's that I just don't care". I see this as a management failure. Managers aren't trained to nurture, but maybe they should be.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 06:23PM

I've always said that I was at the head of the line the day they passed out brothers. I have a complete gem. He traveled 6,000 miles to come to my rescue when my dad was dying and my family was falling apart. He took me along with him when he went to grad school. How many 20-somethings would want a hormonal young teen along for the ride when they are trying to get established in the world? He specifically chose a certain apartment so that I could go to a quality high school. He has been a constant supporter on my life's journey. I don't know what I ever would have done without him. My life has been immeasurably better because of him.

He has very close friends who are gay and also friends from different countries or cultures. He has always supported his female colleagues.

And he learned how to be a great guy from my dad. <3

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Posted by: thingsithink ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 10:51PM

Fist Pump.

That's what it's all about~

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Posted by: thingsithink ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 11:02PM

Not an advantage for all white males specifically, but generally?

All I've ever seen is an advantage. The women are the staff and treated like half-wits, all of the people in charge around me were white men. And all those years many of those white men talked about all of the advantages being given to minorities. I had to laugh. We're all white guys. Where's the advantage?

I still look around and its largely a white world. My neighbors are mostly white, the stores and restaurants are mostly white, the school is mostly white. I guess it just happened by chance but the Mexicans all hang out at different places.

If you head out into the world white, you've got a shorter hike usually. Yes, you have to work hard, take risks, etc., but the door is shut for so many.

I remember sharing a resume with an 40 year old white partner in a law firm. He read through to the end and said "She's black."

She did come in for an interview. Only one of the four white mormon partners interviewed her. The others were busy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2017 11:02PM by thingsithink.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 05:31AM

I suggest you get away and experience wider company.

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Posted by: anonuk ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 06:40PM

white males - especially christian ones - are the only unprotected group in society. All other groups have legislation enacted to ensure they are not discriminated against, but white men do not. Neither do gingers, the ultra-white skinned of the whiteys, they are one of the few genetically affected groups still fair game for ridicule. All other groups are protected from the same discriminatory ridicule by law.

Is this fair? Especially when it was white men who first spoke out against and ultimately banned slavery. The arab slave trade never ended - neither did the muslim one. African slaves are today sold in open markets in Lybia - didn't happen under gadaffi.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 07:42PM

I'm seeing both sides of this.

What might be happening is that white males are finally experiencing what everyone else has been experiencing for decades. They just didn't see what it was like because everyone was conditioned to see mostly white males in charge of everything.

That said, I think the pendulum might have swung too far. White males and everyone else should be equally, not protected or discriminated against.

I wish there was a way to overcome biases. Imagine what hiring would be like if they could not tell ahead of time what gender or race you were.

I see the management in many companies and leadership in politics and religions are not the same proportion of race and genders they represent or hire. I have personally seen a white male hired and coddled because he has a bunch of kids and a stay at home wife to support. I've also seen people hired who were not as well qualified because the employer gave the non-white person the benefit of the doubt to appear diverse.

Gone are the days when a white male should expect to magically fall into a job that supports a home and family. This has not been true for non white males ever. I truly hope that fairness will prevail and people will come to accept that merit and performance matter. No one should get held to lower standards because they are a minority. No one should have to work twice as hard to get the same pay as a white male either.

The corporations (at least the ones I have experienced) are demonstrating less loyalty to their workers than back in the 50s. It's rough out there. People with college degrees sometimes can barely write a sentence. Sometimes educational opportunities are the underlying reason people don't get hired which is related to socio-economic disadvantage. Increasingly, corporations would rather have technology than humans doing the work. There are many things to consider.

I owe a lot to white men. I want them treated fairly but I also expect them to play fair, same as anyone else. I do think they are being increasingly denigrated on TV and I don't like that.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 07:56PM

I certainly feel sorry for all those privileged white males.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 08:47PM

I'm a white man. My parents lived in a migrant shack when I was born. My mother was invertebrate, and my father was an angry bastard. I came into life in the bottom lands of the Grande Ronde valley in northeast Oregon. It really wasn't a good outlook from the beginning. My father married the crazy daughter of one of the wealthiest men in the region. When my grandpa Charlie died he left a small fortune, which my parents intercepted and refused to share. My father lied to me and said there was no money. Then he lived high on the hog with a two year spending spree. The last time we talked on the phone, he wanted me to drive all the way there to witness his financial windfall. To show off his prowess, which is really just lying, taking and hogging. He always had his temple recommend to "prove" his righteousness. What advantage?

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Posted by: helenm ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 11:07PM

I've witness minorities blame white people for their problems and I think it is immature and the poorest excuse to explain their circumstances.

My philosophy is: you're going to feel that way if you think that way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2017 11:08PM by helenm.

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Posted by: Zeke ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 07:45PM

helenm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've witness minorities blame white people for
> their problems and I think it is immature and the
> poorest excuse to explain their circumstances.
>
> My philosophy is: you're going to feel that way if
> you think that way.

Agreed and the narrative is getting old. I'd add collective guilt, for any group, is by definition racism. Just because it is aimed at whites doesn't make it right.

And the collective guilt is extra stupid because essentially all the past sins Caucasians did (e.g., slavery, war, exploitation, etc.), every other race on the face of the planet engaged in too. I wish people would know their history.

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Posted by: scmd not logged on ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 11:41PM

My dad would be considered an older white male. I've never met a finer person, Mormon or not. i agree that they're unfairly blamed for too much.

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Posted by: Cpete ( )
Date: July 29, 2017 11:50PM

Love the virtue. :/

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 12:03AM

Another large (6'4"-XXXL) white male checking in here. Thanks Cheryl. I think (hope) my wife would agree with you.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 12:33AM

My brother is another big old white guy, fire chief, who lived in the South, where he probably rescued and revived more minority people than whites.

Should he apologize for being a old white male?

I'm weary of the reverse discrimination.

I'm weary of discrimination in general.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2017 01:37AM by kathleen.

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 12:47AM

Above, the long list of terrible things the white male has done.

But that makes the point. We like to cherry pick to support our preconceived beliefs, mainly that white males are bad.

If we were to be fair, we might also list the good things white males have done. I mean, do we have any appreciation for our current state? Would we like to go back and live as we did 500 years ago? Have white males had anything to do with our improved conditions? I assume we hate typing on computer screens developed largely by white males.

Perhaps we want to live in a shack, without running water or heat or a/c. Be out fighting and struggling for survival to get food.

As to the notion that men have always had it good - fighting wars for resources, and working in coal mines or in the fields, those were good times? I've worked stressful jobs while my wife was home having craft parties and she had it tough?

Women have never benefitted from men's work? They have always been victims? Him struggling to bring home food or a paycheck never benefitted her or the kids she wanted? Why do we ignore the other side of the coin? If women never benefit from men, why do they continue to seek men out, especially since feminists say they no longer need men?

Not saying it can't be hard for women, but with men we are selective in the evidence we present, as TBMs are in church. We see a small percentage of men that are jerks and we have to call them misogynistic. Why can't they just be individuals that are jerks?

I mean, women that treat men like dirt are what? Why aren't women generally tagged as man-haters?

As men increasingly become denigrated, and blamed for everything, and reamed in divorce courts, etc, etc, more and more will simply check out. Stay single, live in an apartment and play video games, and get on welfare programs paid for by women. Then women can run the power plants, keep the streets paved, build bridges and houses, clean out sewer lines, pay taxes for welfare, and go get killed in war.

Finally they will get the equality they so desperately want.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 04:13AM

To some extent I agree with you: white men do get a bum rap. That does not, however, mean that women and other races don't suffer discrimination or that their discrimination is in some way less than that suffered by men.

I express that qualified agreement because I am now going to question a few of your arguments. First, I don't think you can say that white men are responsible for electricity and other mod cons in the sense that those things wouldn't have been invented if women ran Western states and universities. Economic forces favor certain countries at certain times and it is a mistake to assume that the race or gender of the dominant class in any of those times was irreplaceable. Indeed, white western society became dominant because the industrial revolution occurred in northwestern Europe and drove a vast increase in wealth that is now reversing. The endgame will be for China and India to have more economic power because they are harnessing modern capitalism to their larger populations. In 100 years it is Chinese and Indian people (probably men) who will dominate the global economy and, increasingly, international norms. It would be wrong, I assert, then to conclude that there is something about Chinese men that makes them superior to lowly whites and blacks.

Second, those areas in which women have had unique "privileges" are shrinking. I put privileges in quotation marks because these special rights all entail countervailing disadvantages. But when you suggest that if we wanted full equality, women would die in wars you are speaking atavistically. Women already die in wars in large part because they want equality; the number of such deaths will continue to rise as women voluntarily join the front lines. You also say that men are treated unfairly in divorces. That is undoubtedly true. But immense progress has been made in this area over the last few decades. It used to be that women always got custody; now there are a lot of states in which custody is presumptively shared or decided on the merits. You see the same thing in domestic violence cases. It used to be that virtually all charged cases were of men beating women, which can't be statistically correct. There is still a huge preference for women in these situations but in California, for instance, roughly a quarter of all DV cases are now women's violence against men. So progress has in the last 50 or so years been made for men as well as for women and non-white people (although that does not imply that the discrimination was comparable in degree or frequency).

Finally, it's probably relevant that the United States has through its last presidential election reversed course on a number of fronts. Look at the people running national policy: you won't see many non-white or female people in the upper reaches of the cabinet or the halls of the White House. White-shoe Wall-Streeters are back in control. Indeed, the president is a self-confessed serial assaulter and cannot even now, at the ripe old age of 71, refrain from commenting on the figures of the women leaders he meets. He has also advocated violence against several different ethnic groups, elicited public criticism from various police departments and the military, and otherwise challenged not only further liberalization but even measures that conservative American institutions have long accepted as appropriate.

So I'd think that white men who feel oppressed should take some comfort from the fact that the minorities and women who were storming the walls of traditional privilege have been repelled. We will see if any significant number of those male voters change their minds when confronted with this particular return to traditional values.

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Posted by: rt nli ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 04:57AM

And by white males you mean tax payers. Maybe we white males should go on strike for a few months, see how all the racists get by without our government-mandated support and services.

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Posted by: Renanoelle ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 05:49AM

White men are the enemy (if you're a bitter SJW who hates his or her father). The "white men" in my life have been great family leaders who've emotionally and financially supported their wives families. P.s. to the SJWs of the world: sorry your dad was a terrible person, you need not follow in his footsteps.

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Posted by: incognitotoday ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 09:58AM

Yeah. OK. I am color blind physically and socially, too.

I lived in a townhouse in a suburb of Portland, OR. I've hired so many men and women from all over the world. Who cares about anything other than qualifications?

Anyway, there was a black man who lived two doors down. I had a position that I couldn't fill. I tried for two years to get him to apply. He was perfect for the job. He just wouldn't do it. From Chicago.

One day he said he'd apply. We interviewed and hired him. Everyone loved his work and him as a person.

After a couple of months he came over and asked me why I hired him. Why, said I. He said, because he was black. It stopped me in my tracks and I just looked at him a bit. Then said, 'I never even noticed that.' He gave me a hug...

Color means nothing. Nothing at all.

You (OP) are right, though. Like religion, gov't has to have a scapegoat. Not Jews this time. White men...

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 02:25PM

My neighbor is a Iranian male. After having 20 yrs of perfect evaluations and being well liked on the job, he was called in and told he was no longer considered a protected minority. About that time he got cancer and still kept working through radiation and other treatments. The trouble is the treatments caused irritation and he had to sometimes adjust his clothes to alleviate the itching and irritation.

His superiors called him in and accused him of sexual harassment because they were offended if he hitched his pants a bit. His work didn't falter but they harassed him daily if he crossed his legs or pulled fabric away from his irritated wounds. They demoted him and reduced his salary by about 1/3.

The cased extreme stress to the family who were trying to send two daughters through college and could no longer manage.

My friend protested and got a lawyer who took the case to court and after paying thousands he won the case but what a toll it took on him! It undermined his cancer recovery and made life difficult for his family.

He still works in the same place and has been reinstated to his old position and pay but he'll never be the same unfortunately.

Something just as bad happened to my DH in a job and I've seen it happen to others.

I think anyone who talks about white male privilege needs to turn the situation around and consider that privilege is wrong no matter who dishes it out or who suffers as a result.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 10:35AM

The sexist/racist B.S. is strong in this thread.

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Posted by: The Voice of Reason ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 04:41PM

As soon as someone throws out "old white male" You know you are dealing with a confused person.

It shows racism, sexism, and ageism.

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Posted by: thingsithink ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 06:10PM

Tell us more. Please.

I don't see any need for support of white males. We have plenty of support. We still have huge advantages.

Slowly, we've seen things change. Women have more opportunities and are treated better. Minorities have more opportunities and are treated better. But overall the white male still has huge advantages.

If you're a white male and don't feel like that is an advantageous thing, then what race or sex would you choose to be that would be more advantageous? (when I offered a hypothetical answer to a few mormon bosses years ago - asking if they'd prefer the advantage of being overweight black females - they laughed their asses off. Of course, they're laughter revealed their true feelings).

I ocassionally hear white males bemoan others getting opportunities. I'm surprised how much I see that in this thread.

This isn't about payback to white males for decades of oppression. It's not payback - just a somewhat diminished advantage.

The change is about all different types of people being afforded opportunities. That's a good thing for everyone in the long run.

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Posted by: txrancher ( )
Date: July 30, 2017 06:08PM

I see it several ways....

Yes, white males have been in (too much) control. Things are changing, though, and that's good. BUT...not in the LDS church. That's a bad thing.

I'm all for diversity. But not at the expense of demonizing people (unless you are an organization that systematically and continuously denies power to others.) No quotas, just be fair.

I am a white male, but I have a Spanish surname and ethnically I AM Hispanic. But in no way look anything other than white. I've benefited in too many ways--yup. If I ever, EVER get called a white-privileged male in public it will be part of someone's game because I am not some stereotype and evil male. I will let loose on a screed in Spanish so sharp and ruthless that they will be made out to be the oppressor and racist. Yup.

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