About a missionary finding his wayward, prodigal older brother.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865685840/Elder-Holland-withdraws-Church-News-missionary-story.html

I realize that people make mistakes, and it could have been an honest mistake. If it was, kudos for correcting the error. But a few things stick out to me.

First, I love how the Deseret News quotes an ethics expert about how this makes him more trustworthy in the long-run. Pure and complete trying to make lemonade out of a lemon.

Second, as a Prophet,Seer, and Revelator, how did he not have the discernment to realize this story was false? You would think his prophetic skills would have immediately recognized that.

Third, I was reading some TBM comments. They were justifying how they felt the spirit by saying that even though the story was false, the Holy Ghost used it as a vehicle to testify, because the principles were true. Holy mental gymnastics.

Lastly, he sure was eager to spread this story as far and fast as possible, without checking the facts. He might have honestly been deceived, but see point number one ... how are people supposed to believe his next miraculous story is real and not embellished?

Of course Jeff didn't embellish the story (translation: change the details to fit his talk) -- the family member who shared it with him embellished the story.

Jeff obviously shared the story exactly as it was told to him. But he appreciates the humility and integrity of said family in contacting him to correct everything.

Got it.

Ha! :)

My MIL grew up in St. George and went to high school with him. A few months ago she was showing us her yearbook with all the photos of "Jeff Holland". Apparently he was quite the popular guy!

She was very proud to brag about knowing him way back then.

MIL: "He already looked like a great leader!"

I think she was disappointed that I wasn't gushing over him and the fact that she has pictures of him as a high schooler.

high school yearbook photos, too.

The "Desperate News" story would have been much better if, instead of headlining the article "Elder Holland Withdraws Church News Missionary Story," it would have simply read, "Elder Holland Withdraws."


Below are some responses from those attempting to rescue Holland from himself, with their efforts on full display at another website dealing with the Holland Hoax:

"Good! There are miracles still happening regularly, and the true story is no less faith promoting, it's a shame someone in the family turned it into their own fish story."
_____


--"another lesson why you shouldn't immediately believe much of what you read.

"imagine if the year was 1840 and someone wrote this story in their journal. even if elder holland in 1840 found out that it wasn't quite right and tried to correct it, there's a fair chance that his correction would be lost in history, and the incorrect journal entry would be considered 'historical fact' for ever more.

"now imagine the same scenario, except it was some story about joseph smith supposedly doing some unseemly thing, written by someone who hated the church. yup, more 'historical fact.'
skepticism can be a fine companion, as long as you bring faith along with you. ;-)"
_____


--"this is really cool -- good to see them be transparent and honest about this and issuing corrections right away, rather than letting them fester and grow into 'truth'."
_____


--"I've heard this story shared in five different settings in the past few weeks. I guess now I have a number of people in my life who I have to go let down. This could take a while."
_____


--"Great lesson on why we shouldn't share stories that we don't know for sure are true. I appreciate Elder Holland setting the record straight."
_____


“'When you hear a true story, there is a part of you that responds to it regardless of art, regardless of evidence. Let it be the most obvious fabrication and you will still believe whatever truth is in it, because you can not deny truth no matter how shabbily it is dressed.' ― Orson Scott Card, Xenocide

"This whole passage is wonderful, and a defense of truth in meaning, truth in spirit, truth in feeling, even if truth in fact is not present."
_____


--"Opponents to the church may say that because I felt the spirit while reading a false story, the spirit must therefore not be real, and I was confusing natural feelings.

"I disagree. I believe the spirit confirmed to me the reality of what the Holy Ghost is capable of.

"I appreciate the humility of our dear Elder Holland."
_____


--"Can you explain this to me?"
_____


--"Sure. It wouldn't surprise me if many of the stories share in GC are, at times, embellished. I believe the spirit confirms truth, but I don't think that necessarily means a factually true story. I mean, Jesus taught in parables - and those stories likely didn't actually happen - but the spirit is still able to teach those seeking further light and knowledge correct principles through those stories."
_____


--"Agreed. The spirit confirms truth but the parables weren't literally "true" the doctrines and principles they taught were true. This is why we're also not meant to be pedants when it comes to the wording of the scriptures.

"(I'm looking at you, 'guy who took Latin and Hebrew in college and thinks he's closer to God now)'"

*****

Except for one respondent who now realizes he needs to do some back-trenching apologizing for spreading fake news from Holland; and another contributor who reminds folks that this is why they shouldn't spread stories before properly vetting them for accuracy purposes, the rest of the loony LDS lot are simple fools bent on fooling themselves in order to maintain a foolish faith.

It's actually quite pathetic.

At least the following wholesome ad was inserted in the midst of all the blinded blather:

"The Church needs these really neat shoe cover things at Temple open houses."

https://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaints/comments/6qsi1e/elder_holland_withdraws_church_news_missionary/



Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2017 12:17AM by steve benson.

It was an obvious fraud to me and I even said so. But then again..I have the fraud spirit. lmao

Headline: "Idaho Family Loses Its Shit Over Blatant Holland Pulling a Paul H. Dunn"

Damn right he did.

John Dehlin had interviews lined up with three family members. Jeremy Runnells was halfway through his analysis and new website regarding whole story, and Tom Phillips had retained counsel to push forward with legal action.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2017 01:18AM by thingsithink.

A leader tells a lie, and the sheeple who follow him praise him for doing so. Then the fact it's a lie gets out, so he grudgingly admits it -- and the sheeple praise him even more.

Mormons. Sheesh.

Holland could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and TSCC wouldn't lose members.

Awe come on folks.....Poor Elder Holland deserves some slack here, hee, hee. I mean...can you imagine how difficult it must be to continually come up with uplifting stories about the Moron faith?

He MUST go under and around and even over countless piles of shit again and again and again. The Tree Nephites, oops the Three Nephites, and Joseph Smith, Jr.'s Kirkland Bank Fiasco and his screwing up the translating process once again, and, and, and on it goes. There is just so much that a prophet of Gawd needs to be soooo careful about!

Sheesh.

Can't believe that he was forced to admit it and, of course, the mormons all singing his praises.

Paul H Dunn winning Word War II all by himself. blank spacer
This is why I'm always skeptical about a lot of things I hear.
Proves how everything with JS could of been fabricated, misquoted, made up, etc, and so on with anyone, even the cute little 4 yr old grandchild who's doing it innocently to get a favourite or cookie.
I'm trying now to find more on this , but can't. I don't know the details of names in the returned missionary story.
I've been taking everything I hear now, with a grain of salt. Sometimes it's hard to figure out the true things someone is saying from the bending

Sorry, my link from the salamander society didn't take. Good story with funny pictures of Eisenhower, Patton and McAuthor, with his head on their bodies

Wow, thank you very much indeed. Sometimes these links work and other times they don't. I thought it was a funny article.

"Third, I was reading some TBM comments. They were justifying how they felt the spirit by saying that even though the story was false, the Holy Ghost used it as a vehicle to testify, because the principles were true. Holy mental gymnastics."

Wow,that is pretty incredible. It sounds like the kind of logic that can dismiss ANY fallacy that comes to light.. I.e. the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, etc..

They can just say, well the stories don't have to be 'true' just the 'principles' they illustrate.

Been reading all about Cognitive Dissonance lately and this is a prime example of how the mind rationalizes away any evidence not supporting it's currently held beliefs.

This is where the Mormons chime in to make sense of it by invoking the Goosebumps Defense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2017 09:04PM by steve benson.

Elder Holland was busted.

He established himself as a liar in the BBC interview from a few years ago.

How is it that the Spirit failed to whisper to Holland that the story was false? I could tell it was false just reading it. Couldn't you? But he's no dodo. Nossir. He's a well-educated Latter-day prophet, seer, and revelator, but has shit-for-brains moments like the rest of us. Go figure.

On another site, I "read it" that Holland has told this story several times for more than a year, so hundreds of missionaries and TBM's "felt the spirit" of a BS story. A guy went to the trouble of "following the story".

Called of God. HEE-HEE.

After the 'story' is shared and retold by countless followers, it CAN'T be retracted or "un-shared".

How many Thousands of Mormon stories are patently made-up, embellished or false all together. Most - if not ALL - of them.

I'm surprised that he got caught. So many TBMs let those lies slide; especially if it's a faith building story.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2017 11:02PM by messygoop.

I'm actually a little disappointed; just imagine if he had told this story at GC.


It would have been soooo much more fun to go to town on him with the Hell's Angels TBM than the "I hold in my hand, that book!..." Hyrum Smith BoM bit from 2009.

JH has had a dramatic flair in storytelling and loves to embellish his stories. He's been doing this for years. And he's not the only one. Thanks to those folks who called him out. JH talked about suffering from depression. Maybe it's manic depression and the embellishment is medicine to calm down on some level.
Upon leaving the cult, I no longer trust stories by anyone in positions of power.

Jeff Jeff Jeff all this time we thought you had the power of discernment your just another con man

Mitt Romney and Mick Jagger- Republican Rock n' Roll

paulk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> First, I love how the Deseret News quotes an
> ethics expert about how this makes him more
> trustworthy in the long-run.

Yes, because when it comes to morality and ethics, the Morg has
to outsource. Clearly they have nobody in the hierarchy who is
an expert on morality and ethics.