I'm sure you heard it couple of times: The church is perfect, but the people in charge are not. I always thought it didn't make any sense. Let's say that JS was 100% right and his church was perfect. Then later on people in charge adjusted the perfect church - adjusted ceremonies. not practicing polygamy and etc.

How can the church still be perfect? I noticed this became the ultimate excuse for everything.

gag. That is as bad as "love the sinner, hate the sin"

During the first and only year I ever attended seminary we were told that "the church doesn't need you, but you need the church." They were right about the first part of that little couplet and the feeling is mutual.

"The church is perfect, but..."

Prove it.

Oops.

Perfect!

Hated that phrase oh we have an excuse for everything we do.

"The church" is nothing more than its people.

So if the people are imperfect, so is it.

The sum total of mormonism is its people and they, none of them, are perfect, which means the church is flawed.

Which church?

The church that proclaimed polygamy essential to salvation or the church that is embarrassed about it's polygamist past?

The church that taught plural gods or the church that teaches a singular god?

The church that said the BoM is about the ancestors of the native Americans or the church that says the BoM isn't history?

The church that taught the god was once a man or the church that teaches he was always god?

Which church?

"The church might not be perfect, but the Gospel is!"

Dissect that one and get me a Tylenol.

This is my TBM family. The Gospel is perfect, not necessarily church leaders. Well, except for the so-called prophet. Obviously he is perfect.

As far as they're concerned, Mormon church = The Gospel.

The church is perfectly flawed in every way.

Years ago, Mormon missionaries tended to be opposed to any beverages containing caffeine, not just coffee and tea. I remember offering to drive an Elder I knew to his new area on transfer day. We arrived at his new apartment and his new companion had a tall bottle of Coke or Pepsi sitting on the kitchen table. The Elder I brought there became angry that his new companion was drinking caffeine and turned to me and said, "Brother Gentile, the Church is true, it's just the people in it that are false!"

I served in a country where we couldn't drink the water and sometimes a Coke or Pepsi was all the store in the area had to offer on a hot day. So I felt justified.

It wasn't until later that I heard the "mission mother" proclaim at a conference that caffeine kills intestinal parasites, so we were basically encouraged to drink cola. Her claim seemed dubious to me at the time, and I've never found any evidence to back her up, but heck, it was like God had just granted us a limited waiver to break the Word of Wisdom. I was giddy. From then on, drinking Coke and Pepsi was almost as much fun as watching General Conference in pajamas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2017 07:16PM by lurking in.

I have never understood what the expression "The church is true" even means.

Allegations are true (or false).

A story is true (or false).

A testimony at a trial is true (or false).

A statement is true (or false).

How can an institution be "true"?

The school is perfect, but the principal/teachers are not!

The hospital is perfect, but the doctors/nurses are not!

My team is perfect, but the players/coaches are not!

The company is perfect, but the employees are not!


Even TBMs would be able to see the stupidity of these alternative defenses. Only the cult gets a pass.

"The Nazi party was perfect but its members were not?????" How far can you go with blaming the people that constitute the organization without blaming the organization itself?

And an interesting tidbit to piss off the mormons. As I understand it, that phrase originated with Muslims - "Islam is perfect, its followers are not."

You Got That Backwards!!!!

Absofuckinglutely

Flush the toilet, not the turds.

Yep. Makes perfect sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2017 06:33PM by messygoop.

Yeah, I was taught the passage, "by their fruits ye shall know them" as indication that the members fruits were evidence of the church being true.

It's just that you're supposed to ignore the rotten fruit and just pick out the good stuff.

I would be asking them "in what ways is the church not perfect".

Perhaps the Mormons might mean something like this: Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, the Spirit, etc. revealed the perfect structure for Church in these latter days, but the people working within that perfect structure are not perfect and thus do not always bring forth the excellent fruits that the perfect structure theoretically would make possible. One might think of a Mozart symphony as a perfect musical idea, but musicians in some orchestras performing it as being less than perfect.

I had nearly this same argument with my UBER TBM mother...
Spirit of the law vs letter of the law argument. She holds that the spirit of the law is the correct interpretation of LDS theology. My question....if the letter of the law is irrelevant, what purpose is there for a "book"?? The whole thing is obvious BS anyway, but the argument is fun.