I have two degrees so i am not speaking in total ignorance. But my degrees never made me the BIG BUCKS only 13 dollars an hour to be a heavy equipment operator in arizona. So i decided to train as an alarm technician and after a little while i was making way more than i would with my degrees but i never cleared 60000 in a year i dont think but i was able to by a condo cash at 27 years old when the market was low then i rented it out then sold it for 30000 dollar profit 2 years later. But i ignored my health and all my psychological issues from my past and i have been paying for it ever since. But long story short i had to spend all my money on fixing my health issues because i wasnt poor enough for real healthcare
Anyways i was driving by the college this morning and relized that nobody could find a parking spot so they had to park way out by the cemetary and it brought back memories of people trying to find a parking spot for church and i just thought to myself college myight be an expensive scam as well. I dont know ANYBODY that makes great money after college not anything over 200,000 a year. I thought about returning to college as some of you know but realized it was too expensive for me and i needed to focus on my health still. So i ask you guys is college a waste of time when one can easily be trained on the job and move their way up without getting expensive loans and have no gaurentees on making great money once you get out clearing atleast 100,000 a year for the first few years. I dont know it was just my thoughts after driving by the college this morning. What do you guys think? Maybe you can put me in place. Thanks for reading.

University has been awesome for me. I stayed in 9 years and got a PhD in Physics. My income level is good.

I actually think the reality in life is that it isn't the university degree that is the determining factor in how well someone does in life, it's them as a person.

A good degree and the right drive/direction/motivation whatever the magic ingredient is makes the difference.

9 years is a long time, do you make more than 100,000 a year i sure hope so.

badassadam Wrote:
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> 9 years is a long time, do you make more than
> 100,000 a year i sure hope so.

Yes I do. Mormon Jesus has blessed me with a great income since I left his One True Church. University was well worth it for me.
Moved me from working class income family (my parents generation) to solid middle class income.

Haha you made me laugh maybe mormon jesus will bless me as well as i keep going.

I have a few degrees myself. Both of my adult children have gone to Universities. My son finished his degree and got a job in a completely different field. My daughter eventually stopped as a Senior because they wanted her to jump through some ridiculous hoops to get a Special Education teaching degree.

It seems that the cost/benefit for me was great. Wonderful job, great salary, and much improved over my parents lifestyle.

My children, however, paid unbelievable amounts in tuition, fees, and books for very little return on investment. It seems that it is becoming a bit more "scam-like", at least through the undergraduate work. Very disappointing.

I guess that is what happens when Capitalism takes over Education.

HH =)

Gotcha thanks for your input.

No.

Degrees aren't any kind of guarantee of "big bucks."
Never were.

Your degrees were never going to make you "big bucks."
If that's what you wanted, it was up to you.
It still is.
If that's not what you wanted, it's still up to you.

Some degrees have more *potential* for "big bucks" than others.
Sad to say, an English or History degree don't have the same potential as Engineering or Law or others.

Even so, it's still up to you.

I work with someone with a history degree. When he graduated, he thought he'd teach high school history. He did for a while. It didn't satisfy him, financially or personally.
So he trained himself in computer programming.
Now he's been doing that for 20+ years, and has made a 6-figure salary for most of those years.
The history degree wasn't what got him computer programming jobs, it was his self-motivation.

I admit i learned a lot in college but it never translated anything into the work force really so what was the point of spending four to five years of my life in classrooms? College makes no sense really so you have more knowledge, so what? It might help you to make 40000 a year atleast, so what you cant provide for a family with that, you could have been training in way less time instead of doing what everyone else was doing by just going to college for tons of money what a waste. Six grand a semester now without the loan give me a break.

If I may ask, what are your degrees in?

Added comment...you can very often get a non-degree-requiring job as a young kid that pays more than a starting degree-requiring job does.
The issue is, that job will have a very low ceiling in many cases. You'll hit the maximum hourly, and then get only (maybe) cost of living increases the rest of your life.

For degree-requiring jobs, that's most often not the case. You move up. You get bigger raises. You move into management. Your ceiling is much higher. It's not just about what you make right out of school, it's about what you make over the years. And that's where the degree careers blow non-degree careers out of the water.

You *can* make tons of money without a degree. There are exceptional people who do that all the time. But for most of us...a degree is worth somewhere around $1M-$2M more in earnings over 30 years. For a fraction of that cost. Making it worth it most of the time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2017 03:25PM by ificouldhietokolob.

Amen

Someone who works for me is in just that situation. She is spectacular at parsing out the details and anticipating problems. She has a few years experience now and replacing her would be a huge burden. But.....

She has no degree. All of the small items that she would probably still have if she had a degree are magnified. She isn't great at math, not a sin, but she doesn't have a degree. She has a hard time getting out of the weeds and taking a 10,000 foot perspective, not a sin, but she doesn't have a degree. She sometimes gets a bit distracted by office chatter, not a sin, but she doesn't have a degree.

She makes $45,000 a year, is 28 years old, and has no degree. Not a month goes by where I don't encourage her to go back to school and finish her schooling. I fear she will turn 50 and be making $50,000 (comparatively) a year.

Thats my fear is making no more than 50,000 by age 50. I think the most ive made in a year is 60,000 and thats not going to cut it down the road and im 34 now.

I see what you're saying i have a degree in general studies and applied science heavy equipment operating. I know i chose horrible degrees but how many people do you know with those two degrees not many. If i lived in alaska those degrees would be worth something because they pay way more for operators up there but thats besides the point. Ive worked a ton of different fields over the years but none had a high ceiling like you said.

badassadam Wrote:
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> I see what you're saying i have a degree in
> general studies and applied science heavy
> equipment operating.

I'm guessing the "general studies" degree was an associate degree from a community college? And the "applied science heavy equipment operating" was from a for-profit trade school...

Am I right?

Close both were associate degrees but i dont know of any college that does a hands on heavy equipment operating degree besides central arizona so it felt like a trade school.

Did you look at research like this before paying for these degrees?

https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/53-7051.00

That one shows the median income for heavy equipment operators to be about $32k per year. With slower than average projected growth.

So, sadly, it's not surprising that you're not making much doing it, and that job prospects aren't hopping in your lap.

The site also points out that what's required for education for those jobs is usually a high-school diploma, that 84% of the people doing those jobs only have a high-school diploma (9% don't even have one of those), and only 5% or so have any kind of post-secondary education (college). So having a degree in that field isn't going to make you much, if any, more money than people who don't have them.

I'm not harping on you. You worked hard for those pieces of paper. And they were expensive. It's just that they're not the kinds of degrees that are going to do much for getting you higher-paying jobs. If some tool at Central Arizona convinced you they *would* get you more money, they were lying to you.

So...that's in the past. What do you want to do now, what can you do now, that pays better? I just put out ads this week for an entry-level web developer, starting at $80k (and this person will be over $100k if they work out within 2 years). I prefer people with relevant degrees for the job, but somebody with good experience and great self-motivation without a degree will get serious consideration and maybe the job. You can do free on-line "full stack" web development courses -- they won't cost you a penny. If you work hard at them, and spend as much of your own time learning, you could land a $50k starting web development job in 6 months to a year. And the "high-end" prospects for that kind of work are very high into 6 figures.

If that doesn't float yer boat, what does?
I get that you've gotten a raw deal in the past. And present. But your future is up to you. Risking a bad pun, I'd say get off your badass and get going...! Let me know if you need some pointers in web development, I'd be happy to help.

Im not really a computer guy i like to build things in the physical world thats why i chose operating in the first place i worked with my uncle when i was 19 years old and operated a forklift and an excavator on one of his projects. I kind of liked operating so i looked into going to school for it but didnt really research the pay i was only 19 or 20 back then the internet was pretty fresh back then as far as people really using it in my opinion. College was cheap though only about 600 dollars a semester. But now i was kind of wanting to go back to school to be an airplane mechanic but it will cost me atleast 6500.00 a semester for five semesters. I dont know its the only field that really intrigued me but i am damn good at installing alarms but dont want to do that anymore either. Maybe one day i could like computer jobs but i dont think so i need to be doing a little more in the physical world. I took one computer programming class in high school just to see if i could like something like that and it just wasnt for me i made a basic computer game but thats about it. Thanks for trying to help though.

It can be but doesn't have to. You don't have to borrow the money, you can always work your way through college. Of course, that's a bourgeois ethic that is considered racist today but whatever.

Then there's the learning aspect. What a great period in a young person's life to be exposed to all kinds of knowledge generously imparted by learned professors, and to all kinds of different opinions that are out there. Again, much of this is considered to be fascist these days but it's still there for the taking (albeit in a community park rather than a college campus infested with safe spaces devoid of any critical thought).

I'd recommend going to college to anyone who can but it should be for the learning aspect, not the economic. There are plenty of craftsmen who make more money than an academic.

And because a picture says more than a thousand words:

https://pics.me.me/megan-mark-got-a-4-year-degree-in-something-stupid-went-27346049.png



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2017 01:26PM by rt.

Work your way thru school.....
Are you kidding me?
Do you have any idea what tuition costs? Or how overcrowded the more "affordable" (cough) schools are?
Sure, you can "work" your way thru school. You'll graduate in 20 yrs. That's a great return on investment.

Get a community college degree in something remunerative, like nursing. Or do engineering pre-reqs at a community college. Community college is like having a partial tuition scholarship.

gettinreal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Work your way thru school.....
> Are you kidding me?
> Do you have any idea what tuition costs? Or how
> overcrowded the more "affordable" (cough) schools
> are?
> Sure, you can "work" your way thru school. You'll
> graduate in 20 yrs. That's a great return on
> investment.

I realize working hard for a delayed reward is not the easy road but neither is starting your career with 100k debt. It's not either/or. You can work some to borrow less. Get a scholarship or a partial grant from a private charity. Yeah, it's hard, welcome to the real world.

Just FYI, I got two bachelor's degrees in science (computer science, EE) and a master's in mathematics, working my way through school. It took 6 years total, and when I finished I didn't owe anybody a dime.

All at CalState (Fullerton), a highly-regarded and quite crowded school.

Just wanted to let you know it didn't take 20 years and I didn't have to borrow money.

My son is a junior at another CalState school right now, he's going to go to law school after his bachelor's degree. Not a penny in loans, and he has paid for most of it himself (I've paid about 20%).

How has your son been able to work his way through college with out debt? The reason I ask is my children are starting college soon and we can help with probably about 20% and I really want them to be able to graduate with out student loans, if it can be avoided. Just looking for ideas how we can help them.

Live at home and do the first two years at community college, while working. My college kids have even been able to contribute to retirement accounts in this setting, in addition to covering tuition.

I havent lived at home for a very long time. Where i am is my home now and ive lived alone for three years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2017 11:26PM by badassadam.

It depends on what do you want from college, if you expect to make a lot of money, yes it can be a scam. But if you go to college to learn and to be in your place in the world, college became the narrow path to your Dreams.

I graduated with a degree in Marketing. Then after my divorce went and received a license in Nursing. A nurse with a business mind can pretty much name their price. Now at 59 I will be completing my Masters next year just shy of my 60th birthday. I will work the rest of my life, but doing what I love. Now my son graduated from high school and works on the oil rigs and in the refinery. He will be making 6 figures in a couple more years.
It depends on the plan one has when they go to school. My kids figured it out in their late 20's. I refused to pay for a 4 year degree and offered help in community college or vocational school, until they figured it out. My son on the rigs is going for his operations cert, my daughter is now working,in college, and has a plan. My other son is now retired Army and going for his business degree and then going to law school. It is never too late to develop a career plan. Life can send curve balls, and one needs to always have a plan B. In my case I have plans all the way up to G.

It's an expensive way to get accreditation that is slowly becoming worthless as everyone gets an 'A'.

It depends on what you get out of an education.

No college degree is a waste if it helps a person to grow and develop personally and/or professionally.

Wouldn't most people want to make a six figure salary? The reality is that even with a college degree the odds of finding such employment are not likely, unless you have a specialty degree that is highly marketable.

There are no guarantees in life.

One of my professors as an undergrad told his students to study what you love, and the money will follow. Don't plan your life around the payscale but what you see yourself being happy doing.

Otherwise even if you make more money doing something that pays better, you still may not find fulfillment doing something that's not a match for you.

I actually dont know what would make me happy really and I've done a ton of different fields.

Un-fuck your mind. You're relying on externals. Listen to some podcasts with David Goggins.

I definitely need to un-fuck my mind i dont get counseling for the hell of it thats for damn sure.

I'm on it

Here is a question for you:

Would you go to a Dr that was not trained in a university (or college)?

What???
That's idiotic and not what the question was asking

Haha indeed a good doctor depends on the individual i have learned through my years of seeing many different doctors for the same damn injury and only one of them knows the right course of action has nothing to do with college in my opinion.

Then you would go to a Dr that had no medical training from a University? What if they only had a high school diploma? Would you go then? These are simple yes or no questions.

Yes, AFTER the person is educated, there are better or worse Dr.s but what do you have if the person IS NOT UNIVERSITY educated? It's just my humble opinion, but I believe that if you do not have a Dr trained at a medical university, you are going to get the worst Dr you ever had, but that's just my opinion.

Snicker, I can just see it now, walking into a Dr.s office and only seeing their high school diploma on the wall!

Dude i knew i had a torn labrum before the doctor did waaay before the doctor did and i gave him six weeks to figure it out and thats just one example. And i have no medical training im just in pain enough to look up anatomy and what is at the location of pain BASIC stuff here.

Go luck going to the Dr. that is not medically trained if you ever need major surgery.

Then you would go to a Dr that had NO MEDICAL TRAINING?

I certainly would not. I would want a well educated Dr that is up on current medicine, you? Do you want an uneducated Dr?

The question was to see if the OP valued the university education of the Dr.s that the OP goes to.

You may realize you know more than the doctor because it is your own body you deal with 24/7.

My life was saved by a major surgery, something you could not do for yourself no matter how well you know your body.

Good luck having that high school grad do the surgery if you every need one.

Didnt say i could do the surgery not even the doctor could do a surgery on himself but i definitely diagnosed it before him and that says a lot in if i choose him to do the surgery or not.

Yes or no, was the Dr that did the surgery medically trained in a University?

Yes or no, would you let someone that never went to medical school (university) do the surgery?

Yes.

Well, both. But I'd go to the doctor expecting to be prescribed a medication, and I might pass on that and look for another solution.

You would go to a Dr that has no medical training?

Hope you do not need major surgery.

Ive had eight surgeries in a row all successful the doc that i feel will do the best job at face value is who i go with and that can diagnose it correctly the first time.

Was the Dr that did the surgery just a high school grad or was he trained in a University?

Would you let someone that is just a high school grad do the surgery?

I guess it depends on ones goals. My son has a high school diploma and got into construction right out of high school. He holds a journeyman ticket and is a foreman on major projects where he builds refineries and oil sands plants and makes $150k/year. Beats most of his friends with degrees. Very proud dad here.....oh and he's Lutheran
Oh, and I should add he put his wife through university too. She holds a BSc in nursing and graduated with no student debt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2017 05:38PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

That is awesome i would be very proud as well.

"College" isn't a singular thing, there are a lot of variables.

The degrees you earn matter. Here's a data point:

We are currently hiring BS engineers right out of school at about $70K. They'll be getting $100K within the first decade.

And how much do they owe on student loans???
Damn well better be earning $70K

Haha exactly student loans are a pretty penny. I learned it would cost me 6500.00 for each semester for the field i want to go into and who knows what the interest rate would be on the loan, its redamndiculous.

I think it depends on your field and on your school. My friends who got Stanford M.B.A.s did very well. My M.I.T educated engineer brother did well, and so did all of his friends. Many of them started their own companies and got rich. Physicians are well paid. And so on.

My friends who do web development and IT also do well.

I am decently paid as a teacher, but if I had it to do over again, I would choose a profession that pays better. Over time, it gets tiring to see your friends enjoy some of the nicer things in life while you do without.

College costs a lot more than when I got my undergraduate degree back in the 70s. I think that you have to have a very clear idea of why you are there, and what you want out of it. You also have to keep a sharp eye on costs. I know a teacher friend that graduated 60K in debt, and I think that's insane. OTOH, my Stanford M.B.A. friends took on a lot of debt, but were well compensated for it.

60k is insane for a teacher. I think the course i want to take is 40k for 2 and 1/2 years and thats insane they say that getting a job afterwards paying 75k a year would easily happen for me but i dont know its all insane.

College is a waste of time. Depending on the school, it's either left or right indoctrination but it's indoctrination all the same. Nothing but BS. I'm better off as a writer where I can do my own research, figure out things on my own.

I didn't attend college for money. I felt my education was lacking, because of my turbulent upbringing. I put myself through a two year college and got my Associate in Arts. It took three years of hard work,as I was also working full time at a factory. I took the toughest courses I could handle and graduated in the top one percent of my class. It really improved my writing and critical thinking skills. I also studied nights for journeyman electrician. That's where I made my money--as an industrial electrician. Additionally, I studied poetry and creative writing at Sacramento State University (no degree there). I have no regrets about my education other than more would have been even better.

My Mormon family disrespected me and called me inactive!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2017 08:10PM by donbagley.

I have thought about being an electrician because i ran a ton of low voltage lines with alarms. I know an electrician and an alarm tech are totally different but it has interested me being around some electricians at work over the years.

And i can relate to family calling you inactive. I got treated like garbage for choosing education over the church and mission. I actually first learned that the church might actually be a cult from college.

The majority of my family dropped out of school. I got my Ed.D. 2010. So glad I did that. It provided me with experiences I couldn't get any other way. I loved learning and it gave me a scaffolding away from the cult.

I have a graduate degree. I am a public high school teacher. I have a TON of school debt at a very advanced age and I would never have a chance of repaying the debt on my servitude wages, were it not for a program called the public service loan forgiveness act that will forgive all my debt once I've paid income based payments on the debt for 10 years. I'm half way there.

Based upon your question, my education wasn't worth the money. Not even close.

However, going to college changed the way I experience the world so as far as I'm concerned it is well worth the cost.

I think it's flawed to look at education simply in terms of cost:benefit.