Cant. He lives like nothing has happened and ive suffered for half my life atleast, both physically and mentally. But he is definitely neck deep in the religion and never getting out. Although ive been improving it just makes no sense mormon god screwed me over or something why does my father appear more healthy than me always, i cant make sense of it. Has anyone always taken the full beating in their family and the family just keeps living like they're innocent? Just curious, but i will get well i dont care how long it takes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2017 11:17AM by badassadam.

my tbm family act as if nothing has happened anytime we have a disagreement. We can literally argue the same point so much we don't speak for a while, then the next time I see them they behave like nothing has happened. My siblings can be insulting to my face but I am the one with the problem. Is that the kind of thing you have going on with your father?

There comes a time when we have to let go of the things we cannot change. Your father is ignorant and he will remain ignorant as long as he never bothers to check out the claims the church makes. Some people are guided by what they describe as a major spiritual experience, or their beliefs are reinforced from time to time due to continued 'spiritual experiences' they feel they have during the practicing of their faith: they will never change with that mindset.

Don't beat yourself up over it - some people never change, but we are not responsible for other people's feelings, actions or beliefs. We cannot change someone's beliefs or feelings, and hence actions. Change comes around when carrying on as normal becomes too difficult for some reason or other.

What happens in your life helps make you what you are - none of us have finished developing yet. Sometimes we have no idea what the reasons are for some events in our life, then years later it becomes apparent.

Focus on yourself and getting better physically and mentally - they go hand in hand and affect each other. Forget your father's continued belief - it is part of who he is right now.

TBMs are essentially deformed needy people who cannot stand alone as whole strong individuals. In order to survive and pretend wholeness they lean on their cult as a lame man leans on his peg leg and and ratty crutch.

Exmos and nevermos are strong and can get along by standing on their good two feet and using their brains to make valid decisions about life.

Mormons don't know what they think until they check in on Sunday and find out what leadership is telling them about spinning the week's events.

I feel sorry for TBMs but I can't help them because they think limping along leaning on a cult is what makes life valid. They're messed up and thankfully I am good and whole, strong and smart unlike TBMs with their half working brains and distorted limbs.

I think you are absolutely correct but they act like or at least some of them that there is nothing wrong with doing the same robotic thing over and over and being that weak person leaning on a crutch. They actually have that pias attitude like they are above everybody else. For me i have to become whole and strong there is no other option so i cant be suppressed in any way anymore by any organization its a matter of survival to not be in a church.

They tend to think they are superior and they think others look up to them.

We know better!

We can't look to them for any kind of support or reassurance because they are weak and deluded, seeing us through a distorted lens.

That's why it's helpful to have RfM until we can find our own footing.

The weakest among us are better off than mormons who are still mired in their delusions and don't want to grow up.

As always you hit the nail on the head, but their attitude and superiority complex like my father has still bugs the sh#t out of me and i would be lying if i said it didnt. I have gone through way more than he has and he still thinks he is superior it blows my mind, i just want to beat the sh#t out of him sometimes for all he has done to me psychologically and so does my neighbor, my neighbor hated him from the get go, so what does that say?

Child, I know totally what you mean. Sometimes we wonder where karma got the hell to. But, don't let it consume you. You cant change that situation. But, the ultimate revenge is to live well. Concentrate on you and love yourself.

Jinx, Aquarius! We both were writing the same thing about revenge at about the same time. :-)

Life isn't fair. And to make it worse, there is not "make it right" justice in an afterlife.

So, worry about fixing yourself and ignore the noise coming from the self-righteous who want to use you as an object lesson to validate their beliefs.

The only revenge is the choice to live well and be happy the best you can. Some were not dealt a very good hand of cards for life, but we are all stuck working with the hand we got!

Yes i think you guys are absolutely right all i can do is keep improving and keep living better and better and not let it affect me. There is no karma for this or afterlife karma. I still have to deprogram some of those crazy beliefs that religion really mindf#cked me.

Yes whenever i fire back for real with my siblings im always the crazy one but they are the ones doing weird ass shit in so called "temples" so they are right in every argument to them. They think that lifestyle is normal and therefore act as such. I am the scapegoat to them as long as im suffering it proves that the religion is even more correct. I actually dont know why they keep going in.the religion other than insane brainwashing and i do know how hard it is to break off from it they are not strong enough to break off including my father. Once i found out about the death oaths it all became clear.

You have touched on a sensitive subject.

Yes, in my life, it always, that my abusers got away with it, and have continued to live their (abnormal) normal life. They also continued to go on abusing other victims.

All we can do is make sure they don't abuse US or our children--ever again. In my case, I had to break off the abusive relationships completely. I tried to cope with my abusive brother, but when he started bullying my children--I declared "no contact," and I kept that promise to protect my children.

Sociopaths, psychopaths, and narcissists never blame themselves. They have no conscience. They blame their victims.

Creeps like your father never change. They never stop abusing others. Studies show less than a 1% cure rate. Even on their best behavior, pathological "Cluster B" types still verbally express their hatred, and hurt others. They can't be arrested for this. Cluster B's make up a huge percentage of the homeless and the criminals in prison. Families can't deal with them. Society can't deal with them.

You, as an adult, have the right to deal with your father, as you see fit. I had a therapist help me through the pain of childhood and marital abuse. I tried setting boundaries first, and that seemed to help a little. What is "a little" abuse? I set a boundary for me and my children to never be alone with my TBM psycho brother, but my brother still would ambush me in a back hallway during a reunion, and touch my body inappropriately, then scurry off. He would absolutely pretend that nothing had happened, or that if it did, it was accidental, and people would believe him. He sneaked into our room, while we were staying at my parents' house, and took my daughter's underwear (I found it in his drawer with my niece's underwear also) and he destroyed my daughter's commissioned paintings. He said that he was "testing his paint" for his models--testing it on my daughter's beautiful paintings--and didn't realize he was ruining anything. And the family believed him!!!

If you take a stand against your abusive father, you will probably alienate your family. Abusers are master manipulators. Just tell yourself that the.abuse.must.STOP. No matter what you have to do, it must stop!

I understand that we victims would like our revenge. The best revenge for me is that my brother never had a chance to get to know or be with my delightful children, or join in any of our fun times. Also, my brother is the most miserable, unhappy, gutter-wallowing, unhealthy slob in suburban America. Living on my parents' money, living in their garage, making everyone miserable--nothing brings him joy. Every day he threatens to kill himself. An abuser can bring abuse onto himself. That's your revenge.

Also good for "revenge" is knowing that these monsters have to live within the confines of the Mormon cult--that's pure misery!

I have set boundaries but they dont really understand boundaries atleast at first they think they can just walk over me like im still that small child. I was always afraid to get married and have children because i knew they would ooze their way into my life and poison my children. My father is the ultimate narcissist and two-face always afraid when that angry side would surface. Im still running from the guy in my mind and i have had a year of counseling and im bigger than he is but i still fear the guy its very strange but i think this happens to many abuse victims.

Ever consider that you are making it worse by letting it bother you?

Well yea but just turning it off like an off switch is not that easy especially when he took over my grandmas house across the street from me when she passed away i have to see him more and get triggered more.

They're not getting away with anything. The light at the end of their tunnel is an oncoming train. The church is their worst nightmare but they don't know it. Yet.

I think i understand what you're saying but probably not as well as you do, but i can see how their road will end in disaster. The worst part is when it does happen the roles will be reversed and they will come to me and you for help probably.

It's rude and mean to claim otherwise.

Everyone recovers in time.

Baddass, for me the abuse was along every possible path - verbal, emotional, mental, physical, sexual. I'm over 50, and I still hate my dead father. People who don't have PTSD can't understand how hate can be a release for the adrenaline, when it rears its ugly head.

Yes, it bugs me that not only was he never punished for his crimes against me, but those family members who remained loyal to him still think of him as some sort of "great" man, a myth he perpetuated and demanded. Total control freak.

I don't have contact with them because we would argue his history of abuse; only my mother could recall all of it, as my siblings had mental blocks to the memories, and I don't even think they knew it. I felt sorry for them, but could no longer stand being called a liar, disloyal, possessed and every other dysfunction to which they clung in terror, even after he died.

My in-depth healing began in earnest after separating from them, and their on-going "dad abuse" they carried on for him in his absence. The more I left dysfunctional behaviors behind, the harder they dug in their heels. I finally decided that I would not be the scapegoat onto which they cast their evil, and I fled to the "desert" of NoFamily on my own.

I won't try to tell you that it's been easy, not having a family, but I will tell you that it's been worth it. It was near impossible to learn about myself and what I needed to do in order to heal, beneath the cacophony of abuse.

In my case, I had to move. I asked them not to call, they would, and if I didn't answer, they would show up. I asked them to leave, and they wouldn't. I even had to call the police, and it was an embarrassment in front of the neighbors, some of the things they had shouted in my driveway. There were a couple of those incidents.

I did't want to live that way, so I moved from the area I had known for forty years. Without their scapegoat, their lives pretty much fell apart, and that informs me of loads of toxicity that they had been heaping onto me.

I wish you well.

We have a ton in common scapegoat a ton i am their scapegoat and i never saw it until a professional pointed it out to me. They pretend that they want me to get better but that is their worst nightmare but i am not strong enough to move away but ive lived alone for three years now just trying to heal and repair my body and get ptsd counseling and i have improved just not nearly as much as i thought. Healing takes a long time for people with traumatic pasts.

You are not alone, scapegoat. I'm lucky in that my toxic Mormon family moved to Utah. Hooray! Distance makes the heart grow fond.

When I find myself stuck in a mind rut, and need to climb out of it, sometimes I recite the Serenity Prayer. It's what Alcoholics Anonymous uses as part of its 12-step program to help people self-heal.

Acceptance of yourself where you're at is essential. Accepting where you've been, and the changes you're going through - all of it - and let those things go that you literally have no control over. That includes other people's actions, attitudes, those who've let you down, etc.

Own those things you do have some power to do something about. Don't fret the small stuff.

The Serenity Prayer:

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.

The courage to change the things I can.

And the wisdom to know the difference." If you aren't comfortable praying to God you can insert any other name there you care to reference, however you see your higher power as.

I think i have a coin with that phrase on it somewhere around here.

In your case, insert, 'Boner', for gawd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2017 06:59PM by cutekitty.

Oh i see what you did there, it actually might work better that way. Found that coin by the way finally.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2017 12:31PM by badassadam.

I really feel for you. So many of us have become the designated Scapegoat in our families, myself included. How people can convince themselves of things that are completely illogical and contrary to evidence is just unbelievable, but it keeps happening.

It sure seems like some families have to choose one person to pick on and blame.

I know how much it hurts. I wish we could all get together and talk in person. Hang out. Have someone we can relate to to go places with.

Please know that I'm thinking of you, and it helps me to know I'm not the only one dealing with this. So, please, do know that I care about you, and I'm cheering for you. I'm on your side. Please come to the forum here anytime you feel like talking.

How do i get out of the mindset of being a scapegoat? Counseling helps but its still tough to not play the role of a bad guy in their eyes, you know what i'm saying?

Dagney, LOLOLOLOL!! You know we have to say that thing about great minds think alike

That's how Mormons live. A life of inattention and denial. Anything that doesn't make sense or seems unfair will be "sorted out in the afterlife." If that's happiness, I'm not pursuing it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2017 03:28PM by donbagley.

You are absolutely right they are locked into their own world, its the mormon way but i cant live that way its no way to live and isnt a real life. Drones till the end.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2017 05:06PM by badassadam.

I think it is important to get it out. You've been going to a counselor for a year? I have been seeing the same therapist for 20 years now. At first, I saw him 2 times a week. Now I see him about 2 times a year. I'm glad he is still around and didn't move away as I don't know what I would have done without him.

He has taught me many things. You might ask your therapist about emotional intelligence. It might be that many of these people don't have any emotional intelligence and that you do. My therapist just told me again recently that my TBM daughter doesn't seem to have much emotional intelligence. He pointed out her "pattern" of doing things that hurt me and yet she doesn't seem to "see it."

He also told me years ago that my family saw me as the "identified patient" as I got help and they didn't, yet they needed it more than I did. Their attitude is "it must be her problem." I also have often been made the scapegoat by some of my family members. Luckily, my younger brother (11 years younger) is always on my side. I don't know what I would do without him.

My parents are dead and they were pretty good parents as far as what I see talked about on this board. They listened when I left. There were many times they made mistakes and my mother had some mental health issues, but I always knew they loved me. I feel really lucky to have had them.

Anyway, stay in therapy. It is the one thing that changed my life.

Yes, yes, yes the identified patient you hit it right on the head thats exactly how im seen and have been seen. But ive always known that i was the more sane one and the family should have been patients. My counselor is changing my life slowly she understands where im coming from i am about to see another counselor specifically for ptsd, my world is slowly becoming bigger and i dont feel like im spinning in circles quite as much. Mormonism is a circular road that goes absolutely no where and its hard to snap out of that mindset.

I moved 2000 miles away. It's the best thing I ever did for myself. They weren't the reason I moved, but the outcome was great. It wasn't until I moved away and caller ID became a thing that I realized just how much those people traumatized me.

Not hearing about the family or talking to them opened my mind and for the first time in my life I realized how horrid they were to be a round, or even talk to. Holidays became a good thing for the first time in my life. My 2 kids grew up not knowing any of those people, and they're better off for it.

I have been realizing the same thing as i have kept contact with my family to an absolute minimum. You may be on to something in cutting off all contact with family.