As I've been pretty open, she has bipolar. For the last 6 months or so, she has been more on the manic side. That means in general she is easier to live with (as long as it doesn't get extreme), but it also means she is more impulsive with spending, sex, activities etc.

Anyway, about three weeks ago, she texted this guy she met during her last psychiatric hospitalization. Great place to meet stable and enduring friends right. She said she did it impulsively and because she was lonely. It became clear pretty early on he was interested in only sex. They arranged to meet up for lunch, but then he changed it to his house. She didn't go, but continued to text the guy.

He then texted her a picture of him with his shirt off and asked for nudes back. That's when she cut it off and told me about it. She feels bad about it. I know who this guy is and I want to confront him, but probably won't because he's a predator preying on vulnerable and unstable people.

I'm mad at her. Part of me understands she is impulsive and has a hard time controlling her moods. But it's still a betrayal to some degree.

Now she wants to go confess to the bishop. Maybe because I'm in a pissed off mood in general. But it pisses me off that Church culture makes her think she should go meet with a 35-year-old male alone with no training to discuss this.

I'm pissed off that the Church culture was so intense on marriage that I felt I was old at 23 and should marry a 20-year-old at the time. I should have taken way more time to think that decision through.

I don't even know how this relates, because it's pretty much the opposite of how I want this situation to end. But I'm pissed off that Joseph Smith could go and have sex with whoever he wanted and have no repercussions. Yet today we have such a puritanical, repressive culture in the Church.

Oh, man, I feel for you. You’re in a tough situation to being with having a spouse who believes in the church. Does this Bishop know you don’t believe? Is he going to be a help to your marriage or will he unsettle things more? It’s doubly tough for you having a spouse with bipolar.

And you’re right that confronting the predator who was preying on your wife is NOT a good idea. It’s always better to NEVER let a predator know what move you are going to make.

No the Bishop doesn't know I don't believe. That's my business and not his. I don't know if it would help or hurt, but it frustrates me that some untrained random male is the first person she feels like she should talk too

What, exactly, does she want to confess? That she was texting this guy?

Maybe the urge to 'confess' is just another part of the manic phase? ...the desire for more attention?

Imagine how busy Bishops would be if members of the flock confessed things they'd wanted to do but, for whatever reasons, didn't get around to doing!

The bishop obviously has nothing to offer.

I would just continue to urge you to begin living your life for you. You don't believe in this church. Just dump it. Quit going. Refuse to be a part of it on any level. If your wife is unhappy with that, tough.

From what you continue to tell us, you are the only one holding this marriage together. It sounds like you are doing that out of obligation. Everything is on you shoulders, and you are being dictated to about what you can or can't do or say. That is no way to live.

I would be clear with your wife about what you want and how you plan to live your life and then do it. The worse thing she could do is divorce you. Nightmare for her, freedom from all this chaos for you.

I am sorry for being so blunt, but nobody should have to put up with garbage that your wife and her family are putting you through.

Some people spend their lives studying psychology, but for some reason mormon think that a bishop is still a better and credible help



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2017 03:03PM by goldrose.

Screw the bishop!
If you show her forgiveness that is all that is necessary.
Everyone makes mistakes. Just walk on by. Wait on the corner.
Show her you love her. She is only human.
According to the gospel of Matthew LOVE is the first and great commandment. So Be It.

If she's ill (meds, hospital, etc) there's no way to hold her accountable, Right?

You're 1st instincts were correct. Go confront that asshole. Tell him that he's interfering with your marriage and you'll spend every waking minute to make his life a living Hell. The fact that he's taking advantage of your wife's unstable condition tells you that he's a sleazy piece of crap. Don't sit on the sidelines, be proactive. You'll regret it if you don't act.

I can see how this keeps escalating and you could be paying a bigger price. So you confront the guy. He doesn't handle it well. Rough and tumble. You are behind bars. Wife and him head off together.

Let's just skip the drama of a night incarcerated. Do not give her or him something to circle the wagons over and play the victim role.

You keep playing in the fire, you WILL get burned. I can smell the roasting balls from here

Listen to Deja Vue. This is a medical issue and treat it accordingly. Ignore the Bishop and "the guy". Get her help or start looking for a parachute.

Oh please, talk her out of confessing to a bishop. They will only make things worse. Tell her it won't do anything to make her feel better. She can confess to you or her therapist and get some real help.

Let the guy know that she is married and you are her caretaker as she is bipolar. Hopefully, you'll get through to him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2017 07:05PM by SusieQ#1.

I agree;

letting this guy (a-hole) know you're onto this doesn't have to be in person; if he tries to bait you, tell him you've consulted an array & might sue him for alienation of affection...

With a sound bi-polar Dx, it could scare the bejeebers out of him, jerk or not.

just sayin'



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2017 07:26PM by GNPE.

I think the emphasis should be on getting your wife the proper treatment. If she's "on the manic side" then that means she doesn't have her condition under control and needs treatment, not confession.
And I agree with those that say you shouldn't confront the guy. It would serve no purpose other than to feed your anger. He'll go away quickly enough if he's ignored.
Please take your wife to a psychiatrist for a re-evaluation of her treatment plan.

That she met during her lasr hospialization becayse she could not contol her mental issues.
Who is in charge while she is there? You get the staff and head dr jnvolved. This man may have preyed others easily.
That your wife wants to confess of something she did while mentally incompetent is wrong. No confession.

Is the guy in question a health care provider? Years ago, a girl I lived with for 3.5 years came down with leukemia. We were all but married, owned a home together, etc. She was Swiss, and her company's insurance said she had to return to Switzerland. Before I could get back (sell cars, house, etc), she "fell in love" with one of her doctors. I found a bunch of emails between them and reported him to the hospital. He was fired the very next day, after confessing.

To clarify -- he was a fellow patient. Apparently an Iraq war vet with PTSD. I don't care what kind of PTSD he has. Totally over the line to try to hook up with married fellow patients.

so what are you going to do ?

wait until she is having sex with him .......and "loaning" him (your) money ??? because she feels sorry for him , and he validates her feelings where you can not.



......IF you think that you feel stupid now...... just wait until THAT happens !!!


May I suggest separate bank accounts? including one that is exclusively YOURS, at an institution where she does NOT have an account ..... one that she does NOT know about !!!!

....May I suggest burying your cash if you have any, because even IF you forget where you buried it and lose it you will still feel better than knowing that your wife took all of your money to pay somebody else to have sex with her!!!

Have her talk to a non-religious counselor if she needs to talk to a professional even i have the programming in me that i need to see a bishop every time i do something and its messed up and a very bad idea bishops are NOT TRAINED to counsel anybody.

asking for trouble; Bps can't (usually aren't trained, don't separate their roles If they are) counsel ppl who aren't bi-polar!

asking for trouble without any possiblity of a desirable outcome.

I'm more concerned about her being hypomanic, than her behavior because of it. Yes, it can be pleasant, more like a very welcome relief for a weary mate, but without meds being adjusted, it only leads to one place. Then the necessary opposite end.

Skip trying to "fix" the predators, get your wife a new phone and number, and get her to the doc.

It's very easy to blame the patient, but for chrissakes she was in a mental health facility, right? Not exactly fully accountable.

Right now, her hypomanic brain is trying to get you "un-mad," and the bishop is the only "punishishment" potent enough a pill to offer you. Look on the bright side, she could have thought of calling dad again. IMHO, that would have been worse.

Five will get you ten that if you "forgive" her, even if you have to fake it (fake it good), she'll get over her bish session lust. And think about it, paulk. You say she was vulnerable and he's a predator. Did she really have the strength or wherewithal to tell him to eff off? If she was sick enough for a hospital, she was sick enough to forgive.

Did she betray you,or did her illness betray the both of you? It's not easy being you, but I can't even imagine being her.

Short list: Get "nice" again, a doc for meds adjustment, new phone.


A note - I have responded to you before, sorta kinda asking why you put yourself through it. One thing is clear, you love the family you've created, whether you were too young and treated unfairly or not. Not to trivialize or romanticize your situation, but there's a Jane Eyre tone to your life, Mr. Rochester. Don't go blind trying to save her.

My best to you.

Thanks for the kind words. One clarification. She was in the hospital 2 years ago. Now two years later she took it upon herself to look him up and start texting.

I'm going to belabor the point, because you've just confirmed it - she took it upon herself, *two years* later, from a hypomanic state. It's a red flag. A big, bright one. Doc. ASAP.

I know firsthand the seduction of being with one who is hypomanic. It's like being able to breathe again (even if it feels like a lot of jogging to keep up), seeing again, at last, the one with whom you fell in love. It feels like the freedom to relax. And we do relax, and expect some normalcy.

It just caught up to you (her), and you're both in a danger zone. If she makes it to the bishop (or her dad) before she makes it to the doc, their sorry advice could delay needed evaluation and adjustment of meds.

Real docs need to check her serum levels, to make sure she's taking the meds correctly, and if okay, need to change the med or dosage because hypomania is dangerous - as you've just experienced.

It's just illogical to say she's been symptomatic, but expect no "normal" symptoms of the illness. For you or me, I think it would feel like starving in the middle of a buffet, only much more powerful.

You've also mentioned her history of seeking spiritual "treatment" and advice in preference to real medical treatment. I think I owe you ten bucks; she's scared (of herself), wants to go see her "doctor," and his name is Bishop.

(And that means she loves you, too.)

She has a history of this, too - when the bishop's advice fails to alleviate her symtoms, she'll go to her parents for relief, who will come to you with advice on what should be private matters.

I won't bug you again, pushing this, but to an outsider, it's obvious. You'll know for sure when the hallucinations start. If she asks you if you "felt that vibration," (or other sensation like a bright light that wasn't there) that's the edge of a mild one. Those sensations may feel "good" to her, but they are warning signs of a brain out of sync with reality.

She may not tell you, because the meds can take joy out of life, dulls and deadens emotion, cause lethargy and depression. How sure can you be that they are not going down the drain, instead of into her?

Another top priority is if you don't have a medical POA on her yet, you need to get one. You need full access to her blood work and doctors.

I'm really sorry to state all if these things you already know, but you have every right to be a little distracted right now.

My heart is with you and your family.

Thanks. You are spot on regarding what could potentially happen. It's a pattern I've seen several times now. One more clarification, she has always had consistent appointments with a psychiatrist. Right now at least monthly. That's at my insistence over her parents' disapproval.

Basically she's caught between their spiritual healing only paradigm, and my insistence on professional treatment. Because if the damage I've seen from bad spiritual advice I'm concerned about this desire to "confess" to an untrained bishop. He could recommend some steps for repentance that could lead to religious obsession.

I'm not in your wife's head, but in the making new friends department, I'd trust the psych ward over the LDS Ward.

It's obvious to you (hopefully) that the bishop is patently unqualified, unwarranted, and unwanted in this matter. But, you can't unravel a lifetime of brainwashing.

What I would do is call her bluff. First, list out what she wants the outcome to be. Second, follow (if deemed safe by testing) the guaranteed lame advice of the bishop. Third, follow up on the expected versus actual results so they don't escape down the memory hole. If you can easily demonstrate such a disturbing lack of value, cracks in the shelf may follow.

Do not be like me. ......DON'T BE LIKE ME!

My wife at the time had exhibited increasingly irrational behaviors.

She attacked her father and her mother with the following letter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjc9Gk379wE

about two years later, after being estranged from her parents for obvious reasons like them rejecting her outrageous accusations, her father then died. mentally ill people often need a big bad wolf character to play off of to justify their quirky self aggrandizing impulsive actions. With her father unavailable to play the role of big bad wolf for her, guess who was assigned that role next with out the slightest regard over whether or not I wanted it or deserved it.

Between nutcase dead baby eater woman that I was married to freaking out, her dirty cop boyfriend, and a sanctimonious ass MORmON judge, I ended up going to jail four times over nothing but damn lies that she had concocted that were originally aimed at her completely innocent father. The dirty cop falsified a police criminal complaint to cause problems for me as a favor for dead baby eater woman which is a felony. He did zero jail time for that.

Oh and lets not forget the 22,000 $ that was looted from the family saving accounts to pay her FLDS "husbands" to tell her that what ever she wanted to do like making the outrageous accusations she made in the dead baby eater letter was perfectly all right .....and to have sex with her.


Your nut case wife wants to text some other nutcase she met at nutcase central ....and perhaps have sex with him. and She wants too talk to the bishop about that situation too. wow aint that great !!!! what ( StuPID abjectly selfish) thing is she going to want to do next ? with so little regard or concern for you!!!

You better start asking yourself what she really wants to do to you, because in my (BITTER) experience it is the most proximate male ( like a husband or father) that ends up being the designate villain / whipping boy when the nut case female spouse finally goes completely whacko, and the so called justice system will be perfectly content to destroy you in the name of greater good with out being bothered with any real inspection of your situation to see what was really going on.


I can say this from experience: MORmONISM and mental illness does not mix well !!!!! See the Pace report.

At the very least, you better buy a small electronic device and start video documenting EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING.

I do not like to give advice but I will stand by that advice all day long.

I would also suggest to start making plans to distance yourself from your current marital obligation. Are there any children involved ? Mentally ill people LOVE to use children as pawns and anchors !!!!!!!


I stayed in, way beyond any reason, due to STUPID MORmON notions about the sanctity of marriage. When a person stays in to the better end, guess what they are left with !!!! (- a bitter ending !!!!)

Your immediate problem is that you don't want your wife confessing to the Bishop. Use her believe in Mormonism to your advantage. Tell her that her obligation with respect to the repentance process is to confess to the proper "priesthood" authority. As the priesthood holder in the home, she has already properly confessed.

I know my suggestion will rankle some on this board as it seemingly upholds beliefs and stereotypes to which I do not subscribe but it will solve the immediate problem. As others have pointed out, you have larger problems to consider including the solvency of your marriage.

^^^^^ Smirkorama is right, Paul. And it's you who will be the bad guy.

Mental illness or not, she's kept this guy's number for two years? And then texted him? Wow! How many mentally ill people will get to brush up against you and your children before it's over?

Remind her that one should never, ever, confess anything to the bishop. Remind her that it will become almost public information once the bishop tells his counselors, and possibly also the RS president in the name of "helping" her. Keep it to yourselves, and see a professional counselor. Sure the bishop is free, but it will cost you forever.

The big picture is that she can't be "cured" and this won't get better.

See a divorce lawyer to protect your assets and then let her go back to her family and her church.

There is no way to live with this woman.

Apparently she can do anything she wants and get away with it due to mental illness. Where does it end?


Why forgive her for everything, but be angry against the other guy who is also mentally ill. What's the difference?

Forget your marriage. The vows are null and void at this point, as she cannot live them. She is not your responsibility. Let her parents or the state take over.

So on the one hand, she voluntarily told me about this and voluntarily stopped it before it got too far. On the other, as someone pointed out, pretty damning to contact someone after two years had passed. It took a level of pre-meditation.

But yes, I'm mad at her too. My biggest concern is the kids -- I have to make 100% sure I would get custody. Our court system is pretty messed up in terms of favoring the woman. There's no way I think she should have custody of them (and by extension her ultra-orthodox parents).

I'm actually heading out of town for four days for work. I think that's good for a couple reasons. First, I can see if she's really serious about not texting this guy (I can get at least number logs if not the full texts). I also know she hasn't deleted him from her contacts.

Second, it will allow a few days to let things settle.

We have had marriage counseling in the past. It was pretty soon after she got out of the hospital. In a way, it seemed futile to me after a while because I'm not sure how capable she is of meaningful change. But I told her to set up an appointment for after I get back. I'm going to confront her about why she hasn't deleted the guy in that session if he's still in her contacts.

Her biggest complaint (and the reason she said she texted the guy out of loneliness 3 weeks ago) will almost certainly be that I have to be out of town about one week per month for work. She wants me to quit my job and get one where I never have to travel.

She forgets that we specifically relocated to Utah to live by her (ultra-orthodox) parents so she would have extra support. It was detrimental to my career and earnings. Her parents live 10 miles away and can help out whenever needed. They are retired, and even have spent the night at our house sometimes to help out when I'm gone. I like my job and don't want to quit it. I feel like if I do, it still won't be enough and will never end. So I sort of put my foot down on that and she's resentful.

Paul, she's simply going to have to get used to the notion that you will be away for work at given intervals. She can stay with her parents while you are away if necessary. I would tell her there is no need to bring the bishop into it, that you two have already come to an understanding. Given how the bishop has messed with her in the past (the issue of callings,) I think she should have as little to do with him as possible.

Ok. Got to vent. If your tired of this sorry and please move on. But she just got back from a visit to her LDS therapist, after setting up an emergency appointment.

By way of background, I had previously forwarded a John Dehlin podcast where he interviewed a therapist about healthy vs unhealthy sexuality in the Church. The therapist was very clear that her position on some things were at odds with the Church. Things like masturbation are actually not harmful. Because my wife tends to be hyper-sexual she has "succumbed" on occasion and felt very guilty about it.

I thought that the perspective that it's not unhealthy or a terrible sin might help ease her mind.

Anyway Ms. LDS Therapist just told her John Dehlin is an apostate and masturbation is clearly against Church doctrine. If she feels hypersexual she needs to find "other outlets" that are non-sexual.

Definitely have mixed feelings about this new advice and how much her therapist is mixing religion into her professional practice (not LDS social services by the way).

I honestly think Church messages, callings, teachings, manipulation cause half her inner turmoil.

My wife set up a couples session with said therapist for two weeks from now. Should be an interesting session. But there is good news. This therapist is leaving on a mission so we will have to find someone new.

I feel that the therapist is being really inappropriate. I don't consider her behavior at all professional. IMO she should not be bringing religion into her therapeutic relationships.

I was licensed in the state of Washington in the mid 1980s. The LDS therapist is not practicing therapy. She is "converting" your wife to a specific brand of wacky religion - the kind that causes a lot of sick people to get sicker because of the ridiculous advice handed out.

Get a therapist who is not LDS.

paulk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> By way of background, I had previously forwarded a
> John Dehlin podcast where he interviewed a
> therapist about healthy vs unhealthy sexuality in
> the Church. The therapist was very clear that her
> position on some things were at odds with the
> Church. Things like masturbation are actually not
> harmful. Because my wife tends to be hyper-sexual
> she has "succumbed" on occasion and felt very
> guilty about it.
>
> I thought that the perspective that it's not
> unhealthy or a terrible sin might help ease her
> mind.

It is not completely clear in this instance whether your spouse "succumbed" to the sexual indulgence of self stimulation or extramarital sexual involvement as she went "hyper sexual".
How come your wife's "hyper sexuality" does not include the allowed indulgence of trying to wear you out ?

My nut case wife at the time was also hyper sexual. ......Well, at least that is what she thought (THOUGHT), but just like so many other aspects of her created world of mental illness world, it was much more fantasy than reality.



You also said that you wanted to be certain that you would get custody of the children if there was a split. From my experience, there is no such certainty. My nut case wife at the time was hanging out (having sex with) with two MORmON fundamentalists. One was Ray Jenkin who had been an apostle with the Jim Harmston TLC polygamy clan in Manti at one time. My nut case wife was super impressed that Jenkin was an "apostle", you know, just like your wife seems to be quite impressed with the title of bishop.

Jenkin was such a jerk that Harmston kicked him out of the TLC which also effectively stripped the title of apostle from Jenkin. Never the less, my nut case wife at the time was still super impressed that Jenkin had held the title of apostle at one time, with out any concern or regard for the fact that Jenkin was such a disgrace that even a wretched predatory FLDS community had ousted Jenkin as a disgrace. The FLDS rejected apostle Jenkin, a situation which should have been much more of a humiliation and an embarrassment, was still quite impressive to my nut case wife at the time, because that is how mentally ill people "think" and operate.


The other MORmON fundie was David Le Baron, the youngest son of Ervil Le Baron's 40 children, a guy who has siblings who have gunned down other siblings in the name of MORmON Jesus. My nut case wife threw a fit if I spoke to her parents, claiming that such action somehow threatened the children. On the other hand, I was not entitled to express any objection or resistance to her taking our teen age daughters to FLDS excursions that were being hosted by (FLDS Predators) David Le Baron and Ray Jenkin.

My proposed custody plan as formally filed would have given custody to my ex MIL to be, her mother, as we were working together to try to take the children from my nut case wife. The state of Utah preferred that the children stay with nut case "Dead baby eater woman", my former spouse.

Sorry "succumbed" means the sin of masturbation. I didn't want her to feel so much guilt and shame. And her hypersexuality is one of the positive aspects of living with her. So things could be worse in that regard.

I wonder how the courts look upon someone who has a documented history mental illness including three psychiatric hospitalizations.

paulk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry "succumbed" means the sin of masturbation.

thanks for the clarification

> I didn't want her to feel so much guilt and shame.

See my comment on how MORmONISM and mental illness are not a good mix.

Yah, that flies in the face of MORmONS/ MORmONISM insisting that the wonderful (pervert) Joe Smith restored gospel of MORmONISM is the answer for everything.

> And her hypersexuality is one of the positive
> aspects of living with her. So things could be
> worse in that regard.

OK

> I wonder how the courts look upon someone who has
> a documented history mental illness including
> three psychiatric hospitalizations.

Mommy always trumps daddy in the system.
Even crazy mommy easily trumps mean abusive daddy. You might think that you are not mean and abusive. That might be reality, but the instant that any allegations of abuse are raised against you then you are automatically guilty with a very steep uphill battle of proving otherwise. It is super easy to raise allegations of abuse. I was "mean and abusive" because I refused to personally endorse the outrageous false allegations that my nut case wife had raised against her father. I was "mean and abusive" because I refused to provide any more funds for my wife to pay her sex partners for more sex. When I insisted that I had not been "mean and abusive" it was used as "proof" that I was resentful and defiant .....which are then used as prime indicators that some one is really "mean and abusive".

Forget the patriotic American ideals that were preached to you in school, the stuff about innocent until proven guilty. There is plenty of self serving tyranny in the American justice system to completely destroy you on a whim, their whim. The people running the justice system are so hardened by an endless stream of real villains and pathological LIARS (messed up people like your spouse) that are constantly cycled through the system that they are basically incapable of actually doing their job when a decent person ends up tossed into the system. The cookie cutter approach is too easy and too ingrained in them. They are going to take down the designate villain in the situation, and that will be you. She will be the designate victim /charity case. Its a set pattern that is almost impossible to break.

You are quite vulnerable since you obviously still have feelings of affection for the woman. I am disagreeing with certain other poster's comments by saying I seriously doubt that any consideration for you actually plays into her decisions. For her ( the mentally ill), its really all about her and not much else.

The affection that you have for her can very effectively be used against you by her and by certain very common operatives in the system that are basically just as messed up as she is and who have TONS of practice screwing over people like you for their own amusement and gratification i.e. just for "fun". Those are the people that you will be going up against IF your situation boils over into the legal system. Its a horrible situation to end up in. You will need all (ALL) of the ammunition that you can get, and it probably wont be enough.

I had my ex MIL on my side, and it did nothing for me by the time the system was done raping me ......interesting metaphor considering the outrageous accusations that my nut case spouse had made. The system had nothing but sympathy for her and vicious utter contempt for me and my interest in being a valid father figure, as in somebody who actually dared to resent seeing my daughters being used pawns in some sick game that my mentally ill spouse was playing. .....after the totally vicious and completely unwarranted treatment that I received from the state, When I see those state sponsored bill boards that say that Fathers ( supposedly) really do matter in kid's lives, I do not know whether to scoff or puke.

Like I said before, you had better be documenting things as much as possible.

@smirkorama
I had such terrible things said about me in court (by ex-TBM) I though they had mixed up my case with someone else. Yep, it was me they were talking about. I honestly thought I was going to jail. My attorney said, "Don't worry, this is normal". Well, it wasn't normal for me...

Paul, where are your own parents and siblings?

My parents are in the Midwest 1200 miles away. Mother is a TBM, father is not. My brother lives in Costa Rica and has left the Church. My sister lives in Alaska and is TBM.

So no one close from my side. My family all really like and support her, but aren't blind to the challenges.

That therapist needs to be defrocked. She has as much business meddling in your wife's head as my dog does. If pushed for a response, she should have stuck to, "That's a personal choice; there are no rights or wrongs." How hard is that? What a creep.

Confession. A persons confession in that culture is supposed to be private.

How did you get your wife to preconfess to you, or to run her confessions by you first before taking them to her religious confessor (in this case a bishop ).

It is an amazing lack of privacy; who convinced her that her conscious wasn't her own ? or her thoughts about acts to confess to overcome religious guilt and gain compassion or access to her religious routine rules for approval weren't her own business, her own personal ownership of conscience? Who pulled that off?
I don't think it's typical among Mormon women to pre confess or run confessions by their father or husband for the males permission to confess or enter into a religious query or religious discussion of conscience with a confessor.

Btw I do not support either male or female engaging in non-positive participation OR any form of non-positive non participation with a male or female partner; nor do I support either male or female disengaging in a non-positive way gaining at their partners expense (however limited ) by non positive posturing.

My ideal is that positive participation is a nonnegotiable -that's an ideal, (and I think you can be positive when you disagree) and creating a safe place for it to be attainable as a reality is like a goal (my idealistic/ideals)

Perhaps someone else would come online or have links to setting up positive participation boundary routine ; where needs , dignity , rights ,are established and promoted for all involved, including fairly positive engagement and disengagement strategies which are enhanced establishing safety both emotionally and physically.

Any links anyone can suggest? Any specific first steps?

Wow, Painting, I generally enjoy your posts, but I think you're lacking some background on this one. The OP's wife is an unstable manic-depressive, a compulsive confessor (as is compulsive in many things), and the OP has sacrificed much of his life to trying to keep her well, and young children are involved. Her parents are dangers to her, as they don't believe in "mental illness," and she will take their advice to heal "spiritually," and ignore sound medical advice. Were OP the type to "investigate" question or dominate his wife, it wouldn't have taken him two years to find the illicit contact in her phone.

So, if you'd like to lay judgment at a door, start with brain illnesses. Then move on to TSCC and her TBM parents.

She voluntarily "confessed" to me to ease her guilty conscience. I didn't do any searching of her phone to prompt it.

Now that my trust was shaken I have done some more digging. I've found some disturbing stuff that I'm trying to come to grips with.

So yesterday I said it would be good for me to be away for a few days to see what happens.

Waiting at the airport, I did something I've never done before (as noted above). I pulled up her Facebook account. Creepy ... maybe? But she hedged enough when I asked how I could trust her not to talk to this again that I didn't have a great feeling about things. It turns out she had been messaging the guy, after she told me Saturday she was done. And after the strict LDS-standards counseling session. And the previous conversation was apparently a little different than she led on to me.

She was asking if this guy was just joking or testing her by the offer for sex. Then she said "Because in the state of mind I was in, I probably would have slept with you". Then she said "but I decided to stick to my values" and she hoped she didn't "mess things up". She then went on to say she was sorry if she took things too far in their conversations. I also have reason to believe she sent him a picture of her in lingerie, but no proof yet.

The guy then responds and says he understands and he's just there to listen (yeah right). Then she starts to share pictures of tattoos she thinks are cool. Which is odd because tattoos or so not Mormon. She clearly is conflicted in her head.

So far this creep hasn't answered back, but I'm sure he will. I have screenshots of things so far.

This is honestly a train wreck in real life. Part of me wants to confront her about it right now and nip it in the bud. Part of me wants to see where it leads. In a way I'd love to have a smoking gun to get me out of this hell. Maybe this is it.

Paul, when I think about you, I want to cry.

You have the smoking gun. What are you waiting for?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2017 09:29PM by kathleen.

Yeah, I have the smoking gun.

The thing that's so heartbreaking is the kids. Monday we took them to the waterpark and they were having such a good time. Then they dropped me off at the airport. I still remember watching them wave goodbye, without a care in the world

I don't even want to picture breaking up their carefree world. They are so young, they live in a bubble and don't realize how sucky the family dynamics are.

As a child of a bipolar parent, I would like to plead with you: you are not doing your children any favors by remaining in this marriage. You can give them a much more stable and secure environment in which to grow up on your own than you can with your wife. And if you have a firm diagnosis of bipolar from a licensed professional, you are much more likely to be able to get all or most of the custody.

You may want to speak with an attorney to at least know what your options are.

You sound like a nice dad.

Here's the thing - you may think it's a carefree world for the kids, but they have a parent who is mentally unstable.

Kids learn to hide things so they can just get through the day as smooth as possible. Having a parent that's unstable makes things very difficult, especially as kids get to the pre-teen and teenage years where they are very much aware of what's going on.

Giving them such a difficult environment to grow up in only teaches them to stay silent and isolate themselves. You are not doing them favors.

Get them out of the situation.

There is no need for a smoking gun. The only thing keeping you in this marriage is you.

I've been where you are and feel your pain but wanted to share my experience to perhaps help you plan for the future.

My ex-wife and mother of my 3 children is bi-polar. I went through all the highs and lows and my children and I went through hell. My children were between 8 - 13 when I decided to leave the church. I sat down and told them that I no longer believed apprehensive about their reaction. I will never forget the look of relief on their faces. They all decided that they wanted to have no part of the church either and left with me. You can only imagine my TBM wife's bi-polar reaction. She filed for divorce and I immediately dug in to get 100% custody of my children. I insisted on paying for a private psychologist to do an assessment of all of us, including interviews with the children, and then make a recommendation on custody. It only took 2 visits for him to write a very blunt recommendation that she wasn't healthy enough nor had the capacity to think of anyone but herself and strongly recommended that I get 100% custody, which recommendation the court adopted.

Make sure to get a very good, non-lds attorney your kids deserve it. Good luck with everything.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2017 12:55AM by baura.

Two more things. I forgot to mention she set up an appointment with the bishop. I'm not going to stop her knowing what I know now. I'm morbidly curious what will come of this, if there will be any Church discipline.

Lastly, I just got off the phone with her. Tonight she is being defiant. She apparently told her parents (who knows if she told the whole story), what happened. They said it's a consequence of me not paying enough attention to her and working too much. These are ultra-orthodox TBMs. She's bought into it.

For the first time ever in our marriage I used the f-word against her.

I'm sorry to say, but if she is using her parents as a shield against you, it's time to get your affairs in order and start preparing for divorce. You will need to be a step ahead of her and her parents.

Protect your kids, please. Not just from the angel of the LDS church, but also from a parent who is clearly mentally unstable.

One reason I left the church was because I realized the longer I waited, the harder it would be to get out, and to get the kids out.

Same with your marriage. It will not get better for you or the kids. The longer you wait to end it, the more painful it will be.

You can make endless excuses to stay in. And she can bang whoever she wants and blame it on mental illness. And go to shrinks and bishops and get family involved and on and on.

It won't matter. Like the person above, he got a good psychologist. My therapist is great for these types of things. Look up mydocdave.com. He is a friend of John Dehlin. He is in Logan. I know it is a ways away, but maybe he can help you.

I'm sorry to say I don't think there is a lot of hope for your marriage. I just hope you can get the kids.