one doesn't need to actually believe the book of mormon and book of abraham are literal to be a believing member.

My mind just can't wrap itself around this.

Is the church now acknowledging that it is all baloney but it doesn't matter because it produces so much "happiness"?

I showed this to a closeted friend and he thinks it sounds like a way to acknowledge that fact without losing the members since people believe in the church. That makes sense because I think it's a strategy to retain members and do the connecting the dots cor them so they don't do it or have to do it by themselves.

Then what do you have, the CofC?

I have thought for some time now that the only way forward for TSCC is to adopt the notion that the BoM and BoA are metaphoric instead of literal.

The leaders don't really care what we believe or do, they just tell us what to believe and do and expect we pay tithing. As long as the funds roll in, they couldn't give a toss.

The mindset is slowly changing to allow people to pick and choose whatever they want. You can tell what Mormonism will do because other religions already did it to adapt.

Will Mormonism die out, get assimilated into Christianity or will they refine their product so it survives as a unique American religion? I don't know. I do think that they have to adapt to the information age and encourage their members to view their history with apathy. Their rituals need to be symbolic reminders of lessons of mythology and open to interpretation.

Yes!

They are slowly admitting that the BoM is a work of fiction, but it still brings you closer to Christ.

They are slowly admitting everything.

Then, when you bring up an argument, they can say:

"So? The church already admits this. This is nothing new. What else ya got?"

Strange, but I had a similar encounter with a past bishop from my ex-ward. He laughed at me for taking the BofA so literally and stated that he had never believed certain aspects of the BofM and BofA. This was quite shocking. He is a former bishop and former Stake President so I was floored by his statements. He is TBM to the core so I imagine he is having quite a time rationalizing Mormonism these days. He did, however, resist the notion that Joseph Smith ever married other mens' wives. When I told him that I had learned this fact was true when an LDS Institute teacher confirmed my findings, he said he would have to investigate further. Haven't heard from him and never will. This guy could find a way in his mind to keep the sun revolving around the earth if he needed to.

Pooped Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Strange, but I had a similar encounter with a past
> bishop from my ex-ward. He laughed at me for
> taking the BofA so literally

Please ask this past bishop to point to one Conference talk, one
lesson in any Church manual, or one Ensign article that says that
the BoA is not literal. Until they officially say that it just might
not be literal, then he's laughing at you for following them.
"You believe the Church? Ha ha ha ha ha . . . "

Because living a lie doesn't matter.

So I'm wondering if the mishies are receiving different training these days? Are they being told to teach people that the BoM is just figurative and didn't really happen? Maybe someone here can ask them about they the next time they encounter them. I avoid them like the plague. lol

Wouldn't it be a blast to be a fly on the walls of the MTC? Yet, seeing all those innocent teens being taught how to sell Mormonism would be heartbreaking.

Sounds like the counselor didn't pay attention to Dieter "Doubt Your Doubts" Uchtdorf.

He'll say anything to get you back under his direction. He figures once you're in, you and he can deal with the matter through prayer and spin.

As soon as the Prophet announces at General Conference that the BoM is NOT literal, only figurative...


....millions of skeletons, horse bones and steel swords be unearthed at Cumorah.



(The spam prevention for this post was "666", so apparently isnpired by Stan.)

Mormons typically exhibit such reasoning. They minimize when they want to diffuse tensions; but they maximize (even on the same point) when they want something.

Sure, the Book or Mormon or Book of Abraham are "not literal" when they need to keep somebody (a little) active; but when they want somebody to serve them, then the can quote from those same sources with authority.

I find that interesting since they excommunicate those who question.

The Church has let gays out of the closet, as long as they don't
act upon their "same-sex attraction." It used to be that gays
were HORRIBLE people who had given themselves over to SATAN.
But with the advent of an acceptance by society that gay people
are normal human beings (and many members who love and respect
their gay relatives), the church loves them and "has a place for
them. Now the Church has a problem with thinking-people. How do
you keep people in the Church who seek knowledge and use logic?

For this they've created a different closet. In that closet
you're allowed to talk to each other about how you don't take X,
Y, or Z, literally, but you are not allowed to broadcast such
beliefs to the whole Ward. They must be limited to personal
conversations, maybe with someone who maybe will leave the Church
unless you can convince them they can stay without having to
actually believe.

Notice that the counselor told you this in a private one-to-one
conversation only AFTER he found that you were "having doubts"
as they put it. Notice that you NEVER heard him, or anyone
else, say such things from the pulpit.

There are two things I like about the Church: its face.