Okay im learning a lot of stuff and i want to know more. I want to know what the hell my dad does in the temple every time he goes. If you only can do the endowment once does that mean you do the entire endowment again and again but as a proxy for somebody else and the sealing as proxy at the alter. And most importantly has my dad been doing the throat slashing thing each and every time he goes to the temple and the secret handshakes again and again. He is totally obsessed with the temple and i really want to know if hes been repeating the entire endowment as proxy each and every time. Anyone that can answer this for me will be greatly appreciated. I have suppressed these questions for so long its crazy. I really want to understand what my father has been doing so i can better understand what i am dealing with because i have never really known him deep down other than an angry and abusive narcissist that thinks hes on gods royalty list.

He goes through a complete endowment ceremony each time but not necessarily the washing or a sealing.

Remember, each time he goes a dead person is released from the spirit prison and gains access to paradise.

Then, what's left of the temple ritual if you remove the washing and sealing? There's the Movie (or play), the tokens, what?

Yes, the movie and a few other things.

The major temple ceremonies, as I understand them, are 1) baptisms for the dead, 2) washing and anointing, 3) endowment, 4) sealings. Much less common are 5) second anointings, and 6) whatever else the elite get up to.

When a person goes through for him or herself, they get the second and the third--meaning the washing and anointing and the endowment. When they go in for vicarious work, it generally means the baptisms for the dead (performed by teenagers) or the endowment, which you do with some person's name instead of your own. I believe the vicarious washings and anointings and sealings are done by people specifically charged with such things. So when people say they are "going to the temple," the assumption is that that is for the endowment ceremony.

When a person does a proxy endowment, that would mean sitting and watching the movie; getting up at set points and putting on or adjusting the apron, the sash, the hat; practicing the handshakes and the names of the handshakes, passing through the veil, etc. So the movie plus some pantomimes and group chants, the stuff that everyone needs to know to get into heaven.

Jesus christ but did they do the blood oaths every time?

Until the 1990 reform, yes every time.

Until the reforms of the 1920s (?), participants also swore an oath of vengeance against the United States.

Somebody correct me if those dates are off.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
, participants
> also swore an oath of vengeance against the United
> States.
>
> Somebody correct me if those dates are off.


Thanks I hadn't known that.

I hadnt known that either thank you.

The touchy feely veil!!! That's what is left. Get a grip and hold on.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2017 02:48PM by cutekitty.

But did he do the throat slashing before 1990 this is very important to know.

YES!

Now you have your answer. I believe that Richard Packham has the words to the old and new ceremonies on his web site.

But did he do the throat slashing every single time he did a proxy before 1990? If i understand this i may understand my father for once in my life of who the hell he is in secret with whatever secret name he was given thats a trip in itself as well. I just want to know if he did the death penalties hundreds or mayne thousands of times.

Pre 1990, for each endowment session EVERY TIME EXPLICIT self mimicking the butchery of throat slashing, EVERY TIME EXPLICIT self mimicking the butchery of extracting the heart from the chest, EVERY TIME EXPLICIT self mimicking the butchery of slashing disembowelment. EVERY TIME!

Hooooly shinto thats what i was looking for. I can always count on you smirko. This means my father was doing this crazy shit when i was a child.

You mention his new name. If you want to have a little fun, find out the exact date he did his own endowment (first time he went thru the temple) and then go to the temple name oracle (online) and find out his new name. Then tell him you keep having dreams and a person named (his new name) keeps trying to talk to you about the mistakes he made in his life.

BadAss, here's the link: http://www.fullerconsideration.com/templenameoracle.php

EOD, aka Moroni.


I'm sure I'm not the only person who left the temple after his or her first visit thinking, "Wow!, now there are TWO of us sharing the same name!!"

When you find out the truth, corollary questions may arise, "What's Moroni's secret name?" and "What's Elohim's secret name?" and can I count on none of my celestial wives having my cell phone number, cuz otherwise, it would be hell!"

Nevermo question...

The Mormon church practice of surrogates baptizing people who have died is well known throughout a good part of the English-speaking world (and we know that among the total baptizees are many famous and historical people, such as Einstein and Anne Frank, etc.)...

...so do those already-dead people who are baptized customarily get endowed by surrogates (in a separate ceremony) at some future time?

In other words, if "a" given, already-deceased person (Jane or John Doe, or perhaps, Marilyn Monroe or Elvis) is posthumously baptized, is it Mormon custom to then do a surrogate endowment for that person, or is the endowment done only for SELECTED posthumous baptizees?

Hi Tevai, yes; each person you named has to have these: baptism, Melchizedek priesthood ordination (if male), washing, anointing, Endowment, and sealing. For example, someone like Einstein (a male) would have all this done by proxy--baptism, ordaination to elder, washing, annointing, Endowment, and sealing to his wife, kids, and parents (or anything else a living person would do). So, the outcry over baptisms for Jewish people was only a portion of temple ordinances preformed.

On a more nefarious side, the temple work for Hitler and Eva Braun (including sealing) was done in the London temple. I'll try to edit this to post a link.

Tevai, this is pretty disgusting, there are pictures of the official documents at the end. Please do not view if too unsettling.

With deepest respect and friendship, the Boner.

This is from Sandra Tanner's website

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/hitlertemplework.htm



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2017 11:44PM by BYU Boner.

I cant believe it they just take the madness too far. The proxy stuff doesnt make sense its just a scam to keep people returning to the temple like my father.

like Hitler (not likely to reform, even after death) anywhere NEAR the Mormon CK???

I mean, if you don't want him there, why extend the invitation??

Exactly

The TK is looking better and better all the time.

Buried in the obfuscation of Mormonism's changing doctrine is the idea that as children of god all men can grow up to become god. Brigham Young taught that for any one man to become god, than all needed to have the opportunity. So all are granted the same chance even if only a few will take it.

The women on the other hand all have the opportunity to have their husband be god and to have sister wives.

For Brigham Young and others it had nothing to do with the eternal salvation of humanity it had to do with his own eternal salvation. The Mormon temple rituals are selfish by nature. That is why they don't blink an eye at doing the work for Hitler.

jacob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The Mormon
> temple rituals are selfish by nature.

.....So you mean they are just like the MORmON church (SCAM) itself.

> That is why
> they don't blink an eye at doing the work for
> Hitler.

They ( LDS Inc leadership) do not blink an eye at doing temple work for Hitler because they are completely self infatuated, self entitled and STUPID enough to think that they can get away with ANYTHING. When it comes right down to it, Brigham young was much more like a Hitler -a vile tyrannical mass murdering dictator, much more so than any kind of an apostle or prophet or genuine holy man or decent person for that matter.

MORmON founder (PERVERT) Joseph SMith spelled out how he felt that a person can get away with ANYTHING if they just invoke the name of Jesus enough times. Example one is the story of Laban found right at the start of Smith's Book of MORmON. Example two is Smith's own (FILTHY) life which was finally properly concluded after Smith had gotten away with far too much.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ktfQ8b_-rs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQrgLz0tpVA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbQHxx3f-ok

Gawd loves ALL of his precious children, unconditionally, no matter what. If we believe in the atonement of JC then Hitler can be forgiven as well. Like all the other charlie manson's of the world.......

At least we know for sure Hitler lived. He did horrible things to other of gawd's children.

After we are dead we can't be bad anymore, right?

BYU Boner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Tevai, yes; each person you named has to have
> these: baptism, Melchizedek priesthood ordination
> (if male), washing, anointing, Endowment, and
> sealing. For example, someone like Einstein (a
> male) would have all this done by proxy--baptism,
> ordaination to elder, washing, annointing,
> Endowment, and sealing to his wife, kids, and
> parents (or anything else a living person would
> do). So, the outcry over baptisms for Jewish
> people was only a portion of temple ordinances
> preformed.
>
> On a more nefarious side, the temple work for
> Hitler and Eva Braun (including sealing) was done
> in the London temple. I'll try to edit this to
> post a link.
>
> Tevai, this is pretty disgusting, there are
> pictures of the official documents at the end.
> Please do not view if too unsettling.
>
> With deepest respect and friendship, the Boner.

Thank you, Boner!!!

:)

This reminds me of the old Bishop's training school on the campus of BYU-Provo where newly called Bishops were given a bit of training regarding many of the new duties they would be undertaking.

Back in 1969 I was privileged to participate in some of the training scenarios. I would play the part of a long deceased Lamanite husband and father who was being interviewed for his proxy endowments. These were the famous proxy interviews of the dead.

See, completing the proxy interviews allowed the candidates to move on to other proxy ordinances.

Every once in a while, the bishop-in-training would feel empowered to discern that the candidate was not worthy and I'd have to play along, act all repentant and be lectured on how to clean up "my" act.

Good times!

How weird that the exchange between Adam and I that followed my spoof above has been removed!! It creates a "tension" that otherwise would not exist.

Yeah, weird.

I agree very weird and it was a funny exchange to say the least.

One of the admins removed it as I believe it would be misleading to a newbie. I am not sure. I rarely overrule their decisions. Mistakes get made, but with sincere intent. Sometimes satire or sarcasm/humor can be misinterpreted. If you wish to rephrase it please post.

I don't have anything to add to your question, but I had to tell you (Adam) that you remind me so much of a friend I have named Adam, especially in how you describe your family. I'm 99.9% sure you're not the same person, but if your family is anything like my friend's family, I feel for you, and you should know that you're doing just fine with what you're dealing with. So, I have a soft spot for you and I don't even know you. Also I really don't post, so I'm kind of a stalker. Oops.

Well there are a lot of friends that i dont talk to anymore from my past so maybe we know each other. Do you or did you ever live in arizona?

I have not. Oregon and Idaho mostly.

I have been in idaho for the past five years, did you meet adam here?

Howdy Badass! I'll answer this directly--

A person does the washings, annointings, and Endowment ONCE for themselves.

According to Morg doctrine, every person needs to have: baptism, washing, anointing, and sealing. It is done ONCE (unless excommunicated, but that's another story) for each person by themselves (if alive) or by proxy in the temple (if dead).

Unlike a baptism or washing/anointing or sealing that can be done quickly, the Endowment takes about two hours. So, there is a backlog of dead folks needing their Endowment. And each one will need two full hours of living member time. (Think if how many billions of folks have lived and died!).

When you were younger, you may have done baptisms for the dead. If you did this, remember how quickly they said the words and dunked you? If you did not do them, trust me, the baptismal statement is said as quickly as the temple workers can say it--kids are dunked rapidly into the water. At the end of a baptism for the dead session, a kid may have been baptized 40-50 times during an hour. The same quickness holds for the washings and anointings--they can be done very quickly.

When your Dad goes to the temple, most often he is doing an Endowment session that takes about two hours (if the film is used.) It takes about three hours in a live session in the SLC temple. When he did his own Endowment if it was prior to 1990, the bloody penalties would have been used. But, the church changed the temple in about 1990 eliminating them. So now, he is doing the kindler, gentler Endowment--not for himself, but for a dead man (women do theirs for dead women).

He may also do a washing and anointing session. When the temple needs this work done, they will typically ask patrons at the recommend desk if they'll do these.

Adam, I'd encourage you to have a gentle discussion with your Dad about the temple work. In his mind, he is under sacred obligation not to reveal the Endowment signs, tokens, or penslities. BUT, he can tell you why he enjoys it. This is me, your friend, others may disagree--I don't recommend that you create stress for you and your Dad's relationship by arguing about temple bullshit.

My wife and kids go once in a while. I don't think my kids really like the temple, but they like the idea of being an eternal family.

Remember, the typical ward may only have 15-20% (if it's a strong active ward) of members who hold recommends. Many Endowed members either aren't worthy or don't choose to go back. That's why the church constantly pushes ward/stake temple nights.

Bigs hugs, Badass!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2017 10:52PM by BYU Boner.

Holy f#ck i can always count on you boner i dont think i'd ever discuss the temple with my father i just want to understand why he is the way he is. None of my family has ever really pushed me to do the temple thing and i have never wanted to do it but i have always been curious about what the heck went on in there ever since a homeless guy by the salt lake temple told me as a kid that they sacrificed babies in there. But i think i am still traumatized by being baptized for the dead as a kid because i really hate getting wet for some reason. I resent my father and the religion big time for ruining my life and forcing me to do things that i didnt want to do.

F#ck? Oh, you meant fuck :). Sorry, after never having said it for many years, I know find it liberating...

Okay, Badass, here's something I learned after years of therapy--difficult relationships with parents can be resolved. If possible...and this is your choice...mend things with your Dad before he passes on. I had a very difficult relationship with my Dad, but we were able to start to enjoy each other, eventually. Unfortunately, he died as we were just beginning to understand each other. I was devastated.

In another post I mentioned the projectile tears. A lot of this was for things that might have been, but were thwarted by an untimely death.

Adam, I'm touched by your posts. As stupid as this sounds, I deeply care about you and your happiness. It's time to move forward with healing and your life.

Take a few sheets of toilet paper. Write on them the hurt and experiences that cause you grief. Also write any things about yourself that are less than perfect that you stress about.

Then, tear up the sheets and throw them in the toilet. Take a long, deep piss on these issues. Then flush and let them go. They can't hurt you or bother you anymore.

I'm sending you a big high-five along with some love. Please, Badass, vent, and get your frustrations out. We're here for you. There will be healing, recovery, and peace from Mormonism. As I've said before, you're now free to live your life as you define it. I wish I could say more to help. But for what it's worth, you're a mighty fine Badass Wanker whom I proud to call a friend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2017 01:55AM by BYU Boner.

And remember that *many* of the current endowments are duplicates, IOW they've already been done for that person. So even within the confines of Mormon theology, those endowments are utterly pointless and a colossal waste of time.

But that doesn't stop the church from pushing its temple-industrial complex…

Its definitely a complex and an unhealthy one at that.

Many of the names that are used for proxy endowments are recycled a number of times. My great-grandmother (who was never a Mormon and who has no Mormon descendants) was dead-dunked on four separate occasions. I believe that Anne Frank was dead dunked more than ten times. It is not at all unusual.

This is what I was going to point out. My own parents, last I checked, which was in about 1988, my own parents had been re-endowed and re-sealed 5 times beyond the time my wife and I had down it. I know people are tired of my talking about it, but there was once a website called "famousdea*mormons.com/org," since taken down probably by the LDS church, probably based on protecting their intellectual property. The site posted copies of the endowment records done for well-known dead people. What was particularly revealing was how many former evil people received the endowments after their deaths, like lapsed Mormon and serial killer Ted B*ndy. Also, well-known strippers and criminals. Most ridiculous of all was the fact that the more famous and endearing the person was, the more endowments and temple work were performed multiple times. I think that that was because it is always an uplifting experience each time a person pulls a name at the temple and ends up doing the work for Lucille Ball (my son once got baptised for and in behalf of Sitting Bull, which he thought was real cool). She received her endowments about 16 times. Babe Ruth had his endowments 12 or 13 times. Many more famous dead people had endowments exceeding 8-9 times, depending on their popularity among Mormons.

One of the things that becomes clear is the fact that church members aren't turning in enough names, even though you now have people who are tasked with just scraping names off of head stones to provide fodder for the temple. Of course, you may have other people stripping the same names off headstones in the same cemetery. Still, a temple would not be able to tolerate a situation in which a "patron" would drive 100 miles to do a session, and have the temple worker come up empty-handed when he was supposed to have a name for the patron. So the computer keeps spitting out names no matter how many times the work has been completed for those dead individuals.

The rules regarding the names keeps getting ever simpler in order to provide maximum names. I once did an endowment for a person whose first or "given" name was Mr. All they have to have now is the year of one important date with no other important detail, like the year of birth, or the year of death. God is supposed to sort all of this out. Perhaps he is, using all his available time on nonsensical Mormon trivia, whilst ignoring the problems of the world. God is weird that way; he'll help some random Mormon find his car keys, but then he'll allow some Syrian child to be executed in cold blood by ISIS. This is why I gave god his walking papers.

Does this become an addiction for mormons to do?

Well, I can only say that some Mormons do it all the time, so maybe they're addicted. More likely is that they are true believers and also guilted into thinking that if they are continually "about the Lord's work," that their time in the hereafter will be rewarded with wives and shit.

I forgot to mention that Lucille Ball was sealed twice to two separate men, Ricky Ricardo being one of them.

I know for a fact that the same names are used over and over again. The point is to keep the live members attending, and paying their tithing to do so. If they were to run out of names, then there wouldn't be any more work for them to do. I think the whole "work for the dead" idea came about, because there weren't enough live marriages and endowments, even with the plural marriages, to justify building more temples on prime land, to justify mass attendance.

Yes, Adam's father repeated the same sessions over and over, including the blood oaths until they were changed. I'm sure he slept through some of it. Someone was always sleeping, in all the sessions I attended. It is 10 times more tedious than a sacrament meeting. Then you stand in line, waiting to go through the veil. It is a demeaning, soul-sucking experience (they call it "humbling") and if Adam's father did this often, I can see this adding to the hatred and anger already inside of him, until he had to explode onto someone. Pure evil.

Adam,

This sentence says it all: "I really want to understand what my father has been doing so i can better understand what i am dealing with because i have never really known him deep down other than an angry and abusive narcissist that thinks hes on gods royalty list."

In Mormonism, the highest measure of value for someone other than the real big shots is going to the temple and doing endowments.

For a male, it requires holding the higher priesthood, paying tithing, and passing a couple of interviews; for a female all that less the priesthood.

A lot of people get off on knowing THEY are part of the special people who can go there and do that stuff. More, they can satisfy themselves that famous and rich people celebrities can't get in that special house to do that stuff.

More, there are bragging rights. "I spent the day at the temple yesterday and did six endowments" is infinitely more brag-worthy than "I took the family hiking."

It plays right into egos.

Now i am starting to get it and understand. Thank you.

they do MANY ALL AT ONCE. I think I did 50 to someone I didn't know. So if your dad goes to the temple to do sealings and your mother isn't also going to do sealings, then he is doing "proxy" sealings that are the same ceremony your parents did when they got married.

They didn't pull my husband aside to do sealings, so I got the privilege of being sealed 50 times to some guy who kept looking at me as though I was his one and only. It was unnerving. I looked everywhere but at him.

This was all just too much for me to take and I never went back.

Wow i did not know that, that has got to mess with the mind.

Here's is a view of one bit of absurdity regarding endowments for the deader-than-doornails:

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2013/04/wilford-woodruffs-pants-are-on-fire.html

The basis for the article is the fact that Pres. Wilford Woodruff declared repeatedly, even in a conference address, that he had been visited by the signers of the US Declaration of Independence (not to be confused with five Mexican Declarations of Independence) during which the signatories begged him, Pres. Woodruff, to do their ordinances for them, so they could start shagging those women who were worthy of a good shagging. (Well, that's my opinion as to why they were hot to get 'endowed'.)

Read the linked article for the amusing twist that suggests that the church is not possessed of any more truth than, say, the church of Scammatology.