Today my twin brother and I (who have been estranged from our psycho TBM family off and on for 20 years or more)received certified letters from our dick TBM older brother.

Even though we were told not to come to Utah when our mom had a stroke, and were not told until after the fact that she died, our family thinks we are each going to pay $6000 to pay for her funeral! LMAO! Not in this life time or the next.

One of you should write back to ask if it's okay that the writer pay $12,000, and the other twin not be billed.

Wait for the obvious positive response and then reply that he missed the deadline.......

I'm glad you're not going to cater to such a mindless demand.

Me, too. What a dick!

It sounds like they want you 2 to pay for the whole thing plus. My parents paid for their own funerals.

What a wanker! Tell him to send the bill to the church!

Love it. They care so much about the dead.

Just wow. I have *nothing*.

Certified! Older bro must think paying extra at the post office = a legal obligation to meet the demands of the contents therein.

Keep on with your bad self, pugsly.

Uneffingbelievable...

I wonder if he sent it "certified" thinking that you might have some legal obligation to pay...and now he has certification that you were notified.

As much as you would like to tell him to shove it, it might drive him nuts if you said nothing, didn't respond, and went on with your own business.

+1.

Anyone who has that much arrogant nerve to send the "bill" under those ridiculous and hurtful circumstances will indeed be driven nuts if you don't respond at all. That kind of ego cannot take being ignored.

I agree that it was sent certified to make it seem like a bill. But (as I explained below,) the funeral bill is the problem of the estate's executor, and not the OP.

Fun time to ignore the fools.

That's brazen and cruel.

Unless there is an inheritance at stake to which your brother oversees, if it's just to reimburse them for your mother's funeral it is time their chickens come home to roost.

Let them reap what they have sowed.

You owe them nothing.

My parents paid for their funerals also. Mom prepaid hers. Dad's was paid for from life insurance. If they hadn't we would've come together somehow to pull it together. It was a relief to their children we didn't need to.

But then no one, "apostate" siblings or not, were uninvited to attend our parents funerals.

So sorry you are even being subjected to the brute mentality of your brother. You deserve better than this.

You have the right to grieve the loss of your mother independent of his jerk attitude towards his own family. If he's the embodiment of the fruits of the church, his is a poisonous tree.

Amyjo brought up something interesting...you should find out if your mother had a will or trust. Assuming your father predeased her, if she passed without one, there are rules about how estates are to be distributed. Your brother should have about zero say on what/how it's distributed but you may need a lawyer in Utah to keep him honest.

Ack! That was supposed to be predeceased.

See the attached article. Generally, as long as your mom had assets of one type or another (savings, equity in a home, life insurance, etc.,) the cost of the funeral will come out of her estate, although the estate's executor may possibly have to front the money and be reimbursed from the estate later on. So basically it's the executor's problem, not yours. Families do sometimes cooperate on such issues, but you are under no obligation to do so, especially since you have already been cut out in significant ways.

What I would do is to ask your brother, who is the estate executor? Also, see if you can get a copy of your mom's will.

http://info.legalzoom.com/executor-funeral-expenses-21120.html

I'm sorry that your brother is being so awful to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2017 04:07AM by summer.

You owe them nothing. This is one more attempt to use you and then blame you for not being there. In their eyes you will always be the outcast, the sad satan worshipper who let your family down.

Even if you "saw the light" and decided to go back to the church you would always have this black mark of apostasy on your back. You would always be expected to do more to make up for everyone else not doing enough.

Cults are controlling entities. They teach their followers how to control others. Don't be fooled. They just want your money and are trying to guilt you into paying them off. Your parents could have donated their bodies to science and have all funeral expenses paid for but they didn't. They could have made arrangements for their funerals before they died but they didn't. Their lack of planning is not your problem to fix.

I'm saying all of this because my father died and my TBM sister was leaning on all of the siblings to pay for stuff. Turns out my sister bilked our parents out of their life savings and still demanded money. She seemed entitled to everything our parents had and she got it.

She kicked our mom out of her house when my mom's money ran out. She proved to our family that she is a mormon grifter. The culmination of years of conniving and control...the perfect mormon who will drain everyone around her dry.

TBM's are true Christians and better than anyone else. Many of them sit in church a lot to get all spiritual. Then, they piss on everyone else the rest of the week. So WWJD? Oh, be cruel to even their own siblings, deny them the right to go to their own parents' funerals, then demand they pay thousands for the funeral. What a creep. I'm sorry y'all have to be put through this nonsense. No response is the best response

Send him 6 dollars.
If he responds: "OOPS!!, I guess I misread!"
...THEN remain silent.

I'm sorry for your loss. Is it possible to sue your brother for intentional infliction of emotional distress? Go get a court order saying you're allowed to go to your mother's funeral. Bring a police office with you. Or see if you can make private arrangements with the funeral director to see your mother one hour BEFORE they open the doors for others. A court order will help protect your rights. After your mom is buried, sue your brother. He needs to repent and you can help him see the light of his evil ways in court. Brace yourself because Stan doesn't have light in him and runs from it. However, you can set some boundaries and get a copy of your mother's will or trust. Maybe your brother will be charged for stealing her money. Again, my condolences.

We "put away" my FIL within the year for about $4,000 (US). So, what your TBM brother wants is terribly expensive.

Tell him to pay for it from the inheritance...Or, just tell him to fuck off

Sounds to me like TBM bro sent this certified letter so he can keep the acknowledgment of receipt and your anticipated refusal to remit as a physical piece of evidence to add to your list of sins against the family by turning your back on this final gesture of a lapsed TBM.

The funeral will be paid for, probably out of the estate.

This is symbolic, physical proof that you are 'out' of the family, therefore you will receive nothing from the estate.

It's a gambit so that TBM bro gets more of the cut.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2017 10:21AM by csuprovograd.

Send back a certified letter asking for a detailed breakdown of the funeral expenses and a copy of all receipts, but don’t offer to pay for anything.

If your TBM older brother makes the assumption that your request was an agreement to pay, you can respond that you were just curious as to how he is managing your mother’s estate.

Send him a certified letter back with $6000 Monopoly money. After all, he neglected to specify exactly what kind of currency.

valkyriequeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Send him a certified letter back with $6000
> Monopoly money. After all, he neglected to specify
> exactly what kind of currency.


Or Kirtland Safety Society Bank money - here's an image:

https://www.google.com/search?q=kirtland+money+image&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS748US749&tbm=isch&source=iu&pf=m&ictx=1&fir=nEChmfvqnmlZWM%253A%252Cga7CyOkKzF9nMM%252C_&usg=__yToNqb6Lc5b4Z0hbxj9KqFkEFdg%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_1KvW7fXWAhVPxmMKHQXUBM4Q9QEIKDAA#imgrc=nEChmfvqnmlZWM:

If I responded, I would say something along the lines of...



"I chose to respect your specific wishes that I not attend my own mother's funeral, and now you want me to pay for the event, as if it were a missed flight?

I could have easily attended. You set the parameters of the emotional games you play. Now it's time you deal the consequences.

I'm so glad to be free of your attempted manipulations.

Do not contact me again. Any contact other than abject apology for your behavior should be directed to my attorney, [name], at [address].

-Pugsly, a (now) gratefully shunned brother.

cc: [Attorney's name], [other family members]



I would send it certified. I would cc the other family members (aunts, uncles, cousins), because he may have told them nothing of his "barring" you from the funeral, to paint you as "not bothering to show up." You never know the strange terms and caveats of any will, how he may have manipulated your mother.

I'm sorry pugsly. This non-brother is a total freak-show. I had a sister like him, and everyone received different lies and manipulations, her attempts to arrange pieces on a game board.

Tell him you'd like to have Judge Marilyn Milian decide.

Sounds like being estranged from that family was a "tender mercy".

OK--Please take a closer look at the situation, Pugsley.

I think your older brother is trying to scam you!

How do you know that you and your twin were not entitled to a share in your parents' estate? Legally! I think your brother is trying to scare you off, by demanding money from you. He thinks that you twins will be scared off by official-looking "certified" letters and a huge money assessment of $12,000! That's a lot of money, but I think it's a red flag, that perhaps the both of you stand to inherit much more than that amount!

Reply and you and your twin are going to hire an attorney to advise you on this matter, and you will get back to him. Make him sweat, while you find out the Truth of what is going on.

My nephew--who was a bishop at the time--tried to steal all of my brother's money, by making him sign a fake will, that the nephew drew up, leaving the entire state to the nephew. There were two others of us who were supposed to inherit. We sued the nephew, and according to the state laws, what he did was illegal, and we retrieved half of the money that was rightfully ours. Half is better than NOTHING. Suing and winning was a win for those of us who have lived lives of integrity. We also made sure that my dead brother's true intentions were fulfilled.

Do this for yourself, for your brother, and maybe for your parents, who worked hard for their money.

Mormons--especially sociopathic Mormons with fake authority--think they have a right to take anything they want from others. Prove them wrong!

Yes!

The odds of your mother dying intestate are slim, but still present. Putting on my 'scam hat', I have come up with the following:

1. At point-in-time "X", your mother had a set of assets, liquid and fixed.

2. At a later point-in-time your TBM siblings took control of all these assets. No doubt they made immediate use of the liquid assets and eventual plans for the fixed assets.

3. In preparation for her death, they transferred the fixed assets out of her name, both because of greed and to avoid probate. You and your twin were shut out of these paydays.

4. Your mom died, "destitute", not a penny to her name. Thus the cost of her funeral must be shared among the siblings, and probably (cuz why not?) the mortuary and funeral expenses came to just under $12,000.

5. So they bill the two of you, knowing full well you're not going to pay. And they are prepared for you to make inquiries regarding her estate. They will show you the paperwork 'proving' that she knowingly and willfully gave away all her assets to her faithful children, to the exclusion of her unfaithful children. Were you to challenge the pre-death distributions, the paperwork would stack up against you.

If I'm on the right track, there will be no will. They 'sorted her out' before she died. If I'm wrong, I'll refund you the consult fee.

I bet that more people than you think die intestate. My brother, a lawyer in crappy health, did it despite me hounding him for over a year to even give me a list of who he wanted to get things. I know for a fact that what happened is about the opposite of what he probably would have done but it was what California said it should be. I can thank him though because it did get my wife and I to finally get a trust set up.

Thanks for all the great ideas. My dad is still alive but I know for a fact that my parents had no prearrangements/prepaid account for funerals, and no money saved for retirement. They did give money they couldn't afford to the so called church for their whole lives.

My twin and I have no intention of "chipping" in to pay for mothers funeral. My thought is to not live beyond your means and that includes funerals. If the bill for her funeral can't be paid that isn't our fault.

My brother and I left the Moridor as soon as we graduated from high school. We lived in roach motels, each worked 3 crappy jobs at a time, walked miles everyday to get where we needed to go. Then, when we could we went to college - with ZERO help from our parents. We Asked for nothing and owe nothing to them.

wait... are you saying that over all, you've made a better life than your parents? But you don't tithe!!!

So, your dad screwed up and your non-estranged brother wants you to bail him out? That's not how it works.

WWJD: Let the dead bury their dead.

Ok, they didn't want you around before her death, and that included during her stroke, vicious. They didn't even let you know that she died until after the fact. They went out their way to keep you away. Now, that she's gone, they want $12,000? That's just from you two. How many people are in the family?
That's an expensive funeral, if everyone is paying $ 6,000.
It's probably including debts, probably your brother and other family members debts, and the funeral is the reason for their asking,
The certified mail is just to make sure you got it. They're pulling a fast one, that $6,000 is to pay for a lot more than a funeral, plus you're being kept in the dark on what's going on and any legal issues or debts that family members may be having ( if that's the case) , since they're not communicating with you and seem to not count you as family, and now they are,
Most cheap baseline funerals can be $8-10,000, so $6,000 for each family member, unless they're trying yo make you 2 pay for everything,
Like a few mentioned, maybe you're in the will, and they know it and are jealous, so they're making you pay for it,
Have they even asked to get together to agree on the burial place, casket, stone, etc?
Probably not, it's all in their hands.
By law, you have to be notified if you're in the will,
If not, you should be able to see past dolls and see if your names were mentioned and someone amended it, by taking your names out.
Anyway, how do they know that you can even afford $6,000?
I'd do nothing, but they know you got the notice, so I'd send a certified back , saying why you won't help and remind them how they've treated you
You
You can also find out what the whole funeral cost and just paying the funeral home for a small part and NOT give any money to family

The mean nasty part of me says to tell him you do not contribute to an event you were not asked to attend. Since you were not notified of the funeral, you owe nothing. For all you know she was buried in a pine box.

My Dad's funeral cost $5,000-something in total and it was amazing. It was a packed house and some people said it was the best funeral they'd ever been to. Just how elaborate is this thing for so much money?

At any rate, I'd just be laughing at the guy. What nerve!

How did you get along with your mother? If it was a good relationship I would help as much as I could. That doesnt mean they have a right to dictate the sum if you had no say though.
If your mother was estranged from you, ignore it. Either way, you have every right to be upset at his attitude and to express that if you wish.
My mother's funeral was covered by her modest life insurance policy.It can be done much,much cheaper.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/2017 07:37PM by bona dea.

My mother hated me and my twin- told us often through our lives.
We sporadically had a relationship ship with her on her terms.
I in turn feel like a burden has been lifted from my chest knowing I won't ever have to put up with her again.

My dad is an asshat who let her abuse me and my twin as children.

I say good riddance to my dad, and older brother, not to mention the so called church with all of its perversions, hate, and deceit.

I am proud that my life is hundreds of times more fulfilling and happy than their petty lives, and that I turned out pretty damn good in spite of them - just to spite them!

pugsly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We sporadically had a relationship ship with her
> on her terms.

Exactly what I would have to do to have any relationship at all.

I'm proud of you. My mother's hate of some of her children was well veiled. Narcissists do that to keep it all about themselves.

Then you are certainly not required to pay for her funeral, particularly as you were not even informed or given a role in choosing the type of funeral.

You have a healthy attitude, Pugsley.

Your self-respect, success, and happiness is worth much more than "money."

I could have retrieved more money back from my crook nephew, because my brother had sent us all copies of his real will, drawn up by an attorney, but we would have had to go to court, and travel, and miss work, and it might have taken several years. Money-wise, my children, my other brother, and I all make that amount of money in one month. Sanity-wise, we would have had to deal with my obnoxious, disgusting nephew, when we wanted him out of our lives. (He had also scammed my father, my uncle, and my cousins, plus many non-relatives.)

It might be worth it to just not reply at all. Don't give them any consideration. They are out of your and your brother's life.

Some things are priceless.

"Notes" don't do any good. My nephew and his kids drove directly, through the night to get to my brother's condo, and one son took my brother's car out of the garage, and the rest of them looted the place, and took all the valuable paintings, silver, collections, antiques, important documents, family photos, etc. My brother had, for years, carefully documented who was to have what, and he like talking about his collections. The car was for another nephew, who didn't have a car. One of the paintings was my favorite from my parents' house. Writers of "notes" never think to have them notarized and recorded by an attorney. Affinity fraud is the worst, in that the victims trust family members who pretend to "love" them. This is rampant in the Mormon cult. (I don't know how common it is in other groups.)

My children said, "These are just 'things', and not worth getting sick over," but it took me a while to let it go. When I did let it go, life got better!

Do you live near a coin shop?

If so, you can go in and buy "dollars " from different countries for a few cents .

For example you can probably buy a $10,000 dollar note from Zimbabwe for less than a dollar.

Send it to him and tell him to keep the change.

You were told in so many words that you were not part of the family and told to stay away , so you're honouring that.
You weren't even involved in the planning of the funeral.
Hopefully, there is something in the will for you.
You don't have to pay anything to receive your share ( if it's the case) If it's to pay off any debts; you had no part in that.
I'd be very curious why they want you to pay and what you're actually paying for,

Hockeyrat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You were told in so many words that you were not
> part of the family and told to stay away , so
> you're honouring that.


Exactly! This.

"You told me I was not a part of this family, so congratulations, you got your wish. I don't exist to send you money either."

Again, the nerve of that guy!

That letter is certifiable.

and your twin. I wish this dumb crap* didn't happen at all.

I don't know why people do this kind of stuff and think it's okay, or maybe they know it's not okay, and yet they do it.

It makes me sad and pisses me off and ugh. This stuff hurts my heart.

I used to try to understand why people did this *, maybe so I could let them off the hook for being crap people and try to preserve a relationship where they continued to be crap people, and I continued to try to change myself to make them be less crappy. Never worked.

I am glad to see that you and your twin know better.


* <- a slew of invectives and derogatory names for crap people who do crap things.

Let your mother donate her body to science. No fees involved. And she'll get points for humanitarian service even after death. How could she be a better Mormon than by giving her literal "last gasp" in service? Plenty of celebrities and wealthy have done this.

Ask for an invoice.

They didn't want your presence, but they want your present of a large cash donation?

As an answer I think "no" or "hell, no!" would work.

Dummies.

They could have tried living while they were "alive". Such fools they are.

CreamTION is less than $1k