Before, during, and after I was a Mormon, I've had a number of paranormal experiences, including several very dramatic ones. Some ex-Mormons email me and say: "Since there is no God, and no supernatural, you must be delusional".

I reply that all I can "say" is what I saw and heard. What I saw and heard seemed as "real" to me as, serving a mission (which I actually did) or "living" life day to day.

Telly Savalas was the biggest American TV star in the 1970s. In fact, 170 million people in 55 countries watched him weekly, in his show KOJAK. I used to watch that TV show with my parents, when I was a young teen. Anyway, he was not a "religious" person but he had quite a dramatic paranormal experience when he was in his mid twenties, and he relates it, to a Australian TV show, a few months before his death in the early 1990s. So, I will put a link here. The segment is about 7 minutes long, and you can watch it yourself "if" you want to. Yes, I've had several experiences similar to Savalas'. So, watch it if you want. If you do not, then don't. Link below. Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axdkv0_kJZQ

I have had 'numerous' paranormal experiences and try to have them at least weekly.

I have been helped by them. Therefore, I seek to get more in dreams, etc. It seems my 'intuition' is also heightened by getting more and more experiences.

I cannot watch your posted video so I can't say that my experiences were similar to those. Paranormal covers many things!

I didn't seek for mine when I've had them.

Some were messages. Some have been warnings. Some premonitions over things I later came to learn I had no control over the outcome anyhow.

So much of our existence is beyond our understanding.

Those signs we sometimes get from 'the other side' I've looked upon as both a blessing and a curse - because there are things about them I'd fix if I could - and can't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2017 05:17PM by Amyjo.

Interesting topic.

I believe in unexplainable other worldly events - some people are more inclined to be attuned with that element in their nature - some call it the "sixth sense."

What Amyjo said.

How nice for you.

I don't suppose you can present any evidence (videos, photographs, etc.) of what you say you "saw?"

No?

Then I'm sure you'll understand that while these "experiences" may be convincing to you, they aren't to me. For very good reasons.

Oh, and neither are Telly Savalas' stories about his.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2017 05:34PM by ificouldhietokolob.

What hie said.

While I think it would be fun to have a paranormal experience, it has never happened to me despite staying in "haunted" hotels and what not.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't suppose you can present any evidence
> (videos, photographs, etc.) of what you say you
> "saw?"

The question is: can ANYBODY?

I've spent hours looking on the web (mostly youtube) for videographic evidence. What do I find? Every video phonier than the last one.

(I guess the "real" stuff is being held back until our faith has been properly tested.)

I can't prove my 'paranormal' experiences.

The best way to 'know' these things exist is to have one yourself. Look up utube past life meditations, meet your spirit guide, astral project, etc. etc.

If you want to do some research on utube on 'remote viewing' (military style), you should be able to view people who get information and either draw or sculpt it based on verifiable targets others put together. I would look up and hot link but I am out of town and don't have access to my resources. If this come up when I am 'home' I will provide links.

Also, there are the past life books where people remember a 'recent past life' and can put sufficient information/proof together to be able to write a book. I have no specific case I would recommend. I am more into experiencing myself not 'reading about others', however, I do that also but just to see what 'others' are experiencing.

spiritist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The best way to 'know' these things exist is to
> have one yourself. Look up utube past life
> meditations, meet your spirit guide, astral
> project, etc. etc.

You're entitled to believe what you believe.
The statement above, however, has big problems.

Since you yourself don't 'know' these are 'paranormal' anything -- seeing as how you can't rule out that they're not hallucinations, dreams, imagination, misperception, or dozens of other possibilities, you *don't* 'know' they're NOT those things. You've made an assumption. Without evidence.
That's not knowledge.

You believe they're 'paranormal' events.
Fine.

As you stated, you can't 'prove' they are.
You can't present any evidence they are.
What's often given as 'evidence' are things like 'there's no other explanation' (not true, and a fallacy anyway), or 'it felt like (spirits, gods, angels, whatever)', also not evidence.

Believe if that does something for you.

But realize that:

a) you don't know
b) there's no good reason for anyone else to believe you

You are basically correct ----- no one can 'prove' very much because everyone has their own 'standard' of how much and the quality of evidence is necessary to 'prove' it to them.

Based on even experiencing a thing I still don't 'know' for sure what is going on I just 'believe' what occurred was not explainable and seems to be remote viewing, past life information, psychic, intuition, etc. etc.

I have studied a lot and trying to work with my siblings to see how 'interested' they really are. One has had experiences but 'afraid' to admit it in certain circles, so we will see.

I need to keep a list of the 'best evidence' I can find for the things I study. There is a lot out there but one still has to rely on other people. Maybe different people doing a similar paranormal thing will help overcome that issue or suggest they contact the person or institution demonstrating the specific paranormal activity.

I can easily provide training, etc. that have a high probability of having someone experience it for themselves if they will devote 1-2 hrs. others are 30 minutes but someone has to be a little open minded to do it and not afraid.

Personally, I am finding more and more people very fearful of this stuff even those experiencing it. Amyjo stated she does not seek these things. I am just the opposite I not only seek these experiences I am pretty determined to at least 'try' multiple times what others 'claim' they are experiencing by doing XXXXX. The only exception being Near Death experience I do not and will not seek that until I am close to death.


Anyway, my 2 cents worth for now.

"I can't prove my 'paranormal' experiences.

The best way to 'know' these things exist is to have one yourself."

Reminds me of Moroni's Promise; and we know what that amounts to.

Watch the video about Telly Savalas' "experience" and then tell me, with a straight face, "This is JUST LIKE the Mormon burning in the bosom" and when I stop rolling on the ground laughing at you, we can talk further.


GregS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I can't prove my 'paranormal' experiences.
>
> The best way to 'know' these things exist is to
> have one yourself."
>
> Reminds me of Moroni's Promise; and we know what
> that amounts to.

I was responding to Spiritist's post, not your OP.

However, I don't put much stock in Savalas' campfire story, either. It is no more compelling than a Mormon's testimony, nor is it any more relevant than burning indigestion in the bosom.

It sounds like nothing more than a variation of the vanishing hitchhiker:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanishing_hitchhiker

Just because you cant film things doesnt mean they dont exist. For example temperature cant be filmed yet I am sure you believe that temperature exists.

I am not saying that his "paranormal experiences" are legitimate either. I am just saying it would be silly to think just because something doesnt show up on film means it doesnt exist.

@lurking in, Those pictures are of INFRARED LIGHT not temperature. If you really think you can film everything that exists in our universe then you dont know much about science. You cant film an electromagnetic field. You cant film radio waves or wifi. You can film their effects on other objects but you cant film them. The Flir Camera is just mapping light.

The only thing a camera detects is light. If it isnt light then it will not show up on a camera.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2017 03:32PM by isthechurchtrue.

isthechurchtrue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @lurking in, Those pictures are of INFRARED LIGHT
> not temperature.

That's like saying: "Those pictures are of VISIBLE LIGHT not flowers."

https://www.google.com/search?q=flowers&safe=active&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-36bWnpTXAhVo64MKHT26CUAQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=675


The first group of pictures is showing infrared light being emitted because of the objects' temperature, while the second group of pictures is showing visible light being bounced off of objects because of their reflectivity.


>If you really think you can film
> everything that exists in our universe then you
> dont know much about science.

I don't know who's saying that. I certainly didn't. Sounds like a straw man.

The problem is that the way many "paranormal phenomena" are described by those who believe they have experienced them would indicate that they COULD be recorded videographically. For instance, some have claimed they have telekinetic powers, where they can move things with their minds. Where are the videos? Search online. Lots of "magic" tricks and stupid hoaxes.

But the larger point here is that not only do alleged paranormal phenomena not show up on film--they don't show up ANYWHERE ... beyond people's testimonies (imaginations?).

I had never given much thought to "paranormal" experiences" before, didn't have much of an opinion one way or the other.

It was fairly late at night and I was the only family member still awake. I thought I heard a soft noise in another part of the house. I went to look. I wasn't at all scared. I thought it was most likely that the family dog had gotten into something.

I went to look in another part of the house and I saw a recently-deceased family member, to whom I had been pretty close. He was dressed in ordinary weekend casual clothes, and looked healthy and happy, unlike the way he looked when he died, thin, wasted and grayish.

He didn't speak, but a message formed in my mind. He wanted me to let certain family members know that he was well and happy, and that they were not to feel sorrow over losing him. His final illness had been miserable, and he was glad to be done with it. He asked me specifically to convey this message to certain other family members. Then he told me to go back to bed and go to sleep, which I did.

There wasn't anything scary or creepy about it. This kind of message would have been totally in character for him.

There wasn't anything transparent or fuzzy about his appearance. He looked as real as he had in life.

I've never had any other "paranormal" experiences.

Was I "filming" at the time of these experiences? No. When I had these experiences there was no "cellphone" in existence. I did have a dramatic experience that was also witnessed by my girlfriend at the time (this was in 1989), who saw the whole thing. I used to refer people to her, but her husband told her to stop responding.

There are literally "hundreds" of personal accounts of the paranormal on the Internet, shows like Celebrity Ghost Stories, My Ghost Stories, Paranormal Witness, Paranormal Survivor, etc. There are also hundreds, if not thousands, of videos which purport to show ghosts. Are they 100% "fake". You would say "YES", because...well...you won't "want" to believe it, and, of course, "reality" must correspond to what you "want" it to be.




ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How nice for you.
>
> I don't suppose you can present any evidence
> (videos, photographs, etc.) of what you say you
> "saw?"
>
> No?
>
> Then I'm sure you'll understand that while these
> "experiences" may be convincing to you, they
> aren't to me. For very good reasons.
>
> Oh, and neither are Telly Savalas' stories about
> his.

"Who loves you, baby?"

That stupid program got me re-hooked on Tootsie Roll Pops for quite a while.

That show had me hooked on Telly Savalas for quite a while.

He was a heart throb!

Bald guys don't really do much for me...although that bald woman in the first Star Trek movie did set things aflutter.

He was a tough guy, but he couldn't get past Talky Tina. He fell for a doll.

Yeah, I thought Talky Tina was his paranormal experience, and we all know how that ended....

Telly was her (disagreeable) co-star. Some of the doll's lines were GREAT!!

Wasn't that one written by Rod Serling? That's the quirky kind of stuff he often came up with.

When I have important questions, it's always crucial to find out what celebrities think, 'cause famous people are well-known for having their s*** together. And they're all just so smart!

I was seeing a shrink 'til Tom Cruise made 'em obsolete; stopped vaccinating the kids when Jenny McCarthy opened my eyes; and I see ghosts everywhere now 'cause Telly Savalas! Thanx guys! Luv ya!

/s

Shirley MacLaine is an expert on past lives. Or so she says.

(She's a better actress than psychic.)

Beliefs are a contract that you have with reality. If you believe in miracles, miracles are part of your reality. If you don’t, they aren’t. There’s something about that kind of physics that’s governed by rules of intention and free will.

I’ve seen things, man. Things. Stuff that just can’t happen, but did. I pay attention to those things. It doesn’t prove there’s God. It only proves there’s mind.

Why does this shit bother me? It's really not such a mystery. There's no evidence, but it's real. And if you can't see/feel/discern it, there's something wrong with you. You're proud, stubborn, lazy, uninformed...

For 42 years I was told God hears and answers prayers. I'm 2% agnostic, maybe he does. All I know for certain is I've never felt anything. Ever. I know people feel/sense things. It's real to them. Good for them. I'm getting tired of being told, yet again, you're deficient. You should be pursuing these spiritual experiences because they're real because I say so. Isn't there a group for psychics y'all could swap stories on?

I think you get points for converting people. The spirits are apparently lonely.

Fuck lonely spirits!! I can't tolerate my survivors of suicide support group because everyone, except me, is having contact of some sort, with their dead loved one. My loved one is dead. End of story. I pity the person who tells me she's waiting for me to find the right combination of voodoo to communicate.

I don't care if I was Cleopatra or Marie Antoinette n a past life. Deep breaths. Time to sign off before Spiritist puts me on blood pressure medicine.

Dorothy,

There is MASSIVE amounts of anechtodal evidence. Direct evidence? You won't "accept" any. You will dismiss out of hand, without examination.

Dorothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why does this shit bother me? It's really not such
> a mystery. There's no evidence, but it's real. And
> if you can't see/feel/discern it, there's
> something wrong with you. You're proud, stubborn,
> lazy, uninformed...
>
> For 42 years I was told God hears and answers
> prayers. I'm 2% agnostic, maybe he does. All I
> know for certain is I've never felt anything.
> Ever. I know people feel/sense things. It's real
> to them. Good for them. I'm getting tired of being
> told, yet again, you're deficient. You should be
> pursuing these spiritual experiences because
> they're real because I say so. Isn't there a
> group for psychics y'all could swap stories on?

I'm absolutely certain that most of those anecdotes are from real people who really had some sort of experience in their mind.

Bring your direct evidence out before you accuse me of refusing to accept it. Bring it. Oh yeah. There isn't any.

unless you have "evidence" that something happened to you, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN??

What about the schoolyard bully who threatened you at recess, but nobody else heard him and he denies it? Didn't happen.

What about the idiot driver who would have slammed into you if you hadn't been both alert and lucky? Didn't happen.

Wow, I guess a lot of things in my life didn't happen, but I have the grey hair to show that it took them a long time to not happen. . .

It could have happened, but without external collaborating verifiable evidence it is only hearsay which is highly subjective. Of course a lot of things happen that have no evidence so we have to remain open minded pending better evidence. However, all unverified claims are not equally likely. When it comes to the hokey kinds of claims that come up in threads like this, notice they never rule out the most plausible causes:

Is it more likely that a law of physics was broken or:
They have "special" power
They exaggerated
They embellished the story with facts from their views
They lied
They filled in the blanks after the fact
They were mistaken
They relate experiences according to what they want to believe instead of holding themselves to any kind of scientific criteria.
Etc. There are many other more plausible explanations for these types of claims.

Just saying.

You have the 'record' for the 'largest conspiracy theory' ever discussed on RFM.

Most of the times these theories involve small numbers of people.

However, I know over 1 million NDEs have been reported alone. Therefore, including other 'areas' the 'reported numbers' are possibly in the 'millions'!

Additionally, around 75% 'believe' in at least one paranormal activity. So the 'largest conspiracy theory' at least in your mind, is working well! Dang Liars!!!!

Are you for real????

http://news.gallup.com/poll/16915/three-four-americans-believe-paranormal.aspx

A lot of people believe it, that makes it so!

That is another example of not understanding standards for evidence or anything about science for that matter.

I did not say anything about conspiracy theories. I am simply stating facts about most plausible explanations and the importance of ruling out the most obvious.

A lot of people believe it, that makes it so!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, I agree in this area! Why are we arguing?

In this case, it is far better standard than A few RFM atheists (that questionably have read or studied 'anything about the subject' and certainly not a 'serious study' about paranormal events)! I think most would agree with that also!

Again, I ask you if you are really coming up with these 'irrational' things on your own or is someone else helping you?

You realize you have never established 'any scholarship' of this or many areas you often 'attempt to dispute! You have no clue of what evidence does or does not exist!

Do you still believe, millions of people are trying to lie for whatever reason?

That is a 'conspiracy theory' ----- just like UFOs, 9/11, etc. etc. ----- people lie! Again ---- you hold the record for the 'largest conspiracy theory on RFM"!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2017 06:19PM by spiritist.

97.4% of Christian and Christian-lite children between the ages of 3.0 and 9.5 have experienced "Santa Claus" believe in his existence.

It is within my prerogative to lump Woosers into this category. I have no reason to take issue with the kids' beliefs; same goes for you, so long as there's no serious attempt to prove to me that your personal belief is real.

And just to be a bit provocative, the kids' belief is no more likely to be proven justified than yours.

And please feel free not to believe that golf is the best pass time in the world, for daylight hours. I promise not to try to convince you, to preach to you, that it is.

You have a 'reference' for that percentage????

Easy to post 'garbage that has nothing to do with the subject' ----- like you do on 'every subject'.

Humm!!!!!!!

"Telly Savalas was the biggest American TV star in the 1970s."

Thanx for the laugh.

Musta pissed Shatner off something fierce.

Because...you know....'Barbary Coast'....

So, he was not? 170 million people a week did NOT watch KOJAK?

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Telly Savalas was the biggest American TV star in
> the 1970s."
>
> Thanx for the laugh.

I'm curious what your source is for the 170 million "Kojak" viewers per week. Not that it would make Savalas any more or less credible, but curious nonetheless.

Thanks.

Where did I get the info that KOJAK was watched by 170 million per week in 55 countries?


TV news story about his death. Go to YouTube and type in "Death of Telley Savalas".

Okay, I did that, and watched a couple of videos, but they don't back up your claims. Do you have a link to a specific video? (And please indicate where in the video it says "170 million viewers per week" [example 2 minutes, 34 seconds].)

Thanks.

Who loves ya baby?

Ouzo is a hell of a drink. Maybe Tele had too much that night.

rubicon,

Really? Do drunks have hallucinations where they are driven in a car? I've never heard of any.

Could be Telley was schizo, but never diagnosed.

All I can say for "sure" is that I have had very similar experiences to the one he claimed to have that night, more than one. And I don't drink. And, as far as I know, I am not schizophrenic.


Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ouzo is a hell of a drink. Maybe Tele had too
> much that night.

My vote would be for Alan Alda. Kojak ran for five seasons, according to Wikipedia, while MASH ran for 11, four of them after 1979.

Of course it's personal, but I enjoyed Ted Knight's buffoonery a lot more than Telly Savalas' machismo.

And of course the three regular men on the Carol Burnett Show...!!!

Personally, I've never had anyone ever send me a link to a YouTube clip from Kojak.

Here you go ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY2reJ9ktRo

I like him better in Dirty Dozen.

Thanks for reminding me that Barney Miller was a better cop.

I've had paranormal experiences. IMO the experiences are very real to the person experiencing it. I really don't care what other people think of my experiences. They are free to believe whatever they want to.

I'm absolutely not questioning the reality of your experience. I'm absolutely thanking you for not insisting that I seek out the same experience.

Dorothy,

Please show me "where" I "insisted" that you seek out the same experience?

Dorothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm absolutely not questioning the reality of your
> experience. I'm absolutely thanking you for not
> insisting that I seek out the same experience.

For those of you who cannot watch YouTube, the episode is an Australian "paranormal" TV program from the mid 1990s, which interviews Tele (Telley?) Savalas, a few months before his death. Savalas tells the story of him running out of gas in Long Island in 1959. He's carrying his gas can through a wooded area, and a man with a very "high pitched voice" stops and says "I can take you to a gas station". This is done. The man says he is "so and son" from Brooklyn. He had a very unusual HIGH PITCH voice.

Anyway, the man drives Savalas back to his car, and Savalas wants to send him a few bucks, so the man gives him his telephone number. Savalas later calls the number, to get the address, so he can mail five dollars (which was about like 40 dollars is today). The widow answers. Savalas asks to speak with so and so. The widow says "Stop this!" and hangs up. Savalas calls back, and finally the widow says "He died a year ago". Savalas persues it, and meets the widow, and she tells him that the man killed himself, and had shot himself in the throat (voice box) in an upward direction (which would explain the extreme high pitched voice).

Savalas told this story knowing he himself would be dead soon from a disease.

I do not find it difficult to believe this account because I HAVE HAD VERY SIMILAR experiences: more than one. None of which were dreams. I don't drink. Never took drugs. I am not "schizo" as far as I know.

Possibilities:

a) Savalas was super drunk and had an hallucination. But how can a hallucination give him a telephone number that works and is the widow of the hallucination?

b) Savalas gamgled his money away but lied to the TV program in order to get paid and leave his widow something. Possible. Do I know he was a gambler? No.

c) Savalas was schizophrenic but never diagnosed, and all was a hallucination. But, again, where did he get the telephone number of the widow of a hallucination, unless the widow was also a hallucination?

d) Savalas was not hallucination, but was actually "helped" by a dead man, who could somehow drive a car and take Savalas to a gas station and then back to his car.

"d" is the most UNbelievable. Yet, I tend to believe it, because I've had more than a few very similar experiences where "dead" people appeared to me, spoke to me, and appeared not as shadows or mist but appeared just like real people, and then disappeared in front of my eyes.

Was "I" hallucinating? All I KNOW is that these experiences appeared to be absolutely REAL, as "real" as me typing on exmormon.org at this moment. That's all I can say.