According to Joseph Smith's Story, he got the gold plates out of a large stone box, embedded in the Hill Cumorah, near his home in Palmyra. Yes, the Church "did" go to the hill with ground penetrating radar machines, looking for the stone box and any evidence of several million dead Nephites and Lamanites.

Nothing was found.

It was also believed that the Hill contained a cavern with many gold plates, as per something Oliver Cowdery once wrote. The Hill Cumorah has no "caverns" or cavities, according to the ground penetrating radar.

I got this information from two sources, both retired BYU professors, who had no reason to lie to me about it. Both were Members of the Church in good standing. One is now dead.

No stone box was found.
The hill has no cavities or caverns in it.

Lorenzo Saunders was a neighbor of the Smith family. He said when he was first told about Joseph Smith getting gold plates from a stone box on the Hill Cumorah, he went there the next day to look around, and found no stone box, and he found that the earth had not be moved (nobody dug up anything). He said he walked all over the entire hill.

There is another hill not far from the Hill Cumorah called "Mormon Hill" where a cavern was dug out by someone.

No archaeologist in the State of New York believes there were any great battles involving millions of people, anywhere in the State, in ancient times. To date, they have found no horse bones dating from pre-English/French times, no oxen bones, no cow bones, no sheep bones, no 'ass' (donkey) bones that date before the English and French settlers. In other words...No "Nephites" anywhere. They have all vanished "without a trace".

Now that cosmic rays have found a new "room" in the Great Pyramid, Mormons will claim that lack of evidence does not mean evidence does not exist. We just don't have the technology to find what God does not mean to be found.

A wise man once told me you could not fight delusions with facts. The little man standing in his palm just moved to the other side of his hand because he has suckers on his fingers and it knew you were looking.


Kathleen

who needs "facts" when one has "faith"???



anagrammy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now that cosmic rays have found a new "room" in
> the Great Pyramid, Mormons will claim that lack of
> evidence does not mean evidence does not exist.
> We just don't have the technology to find what God
> does not mean to be found.
>
> A wise man once told me you could not fight
> delusions with facts. The little man standing in
> his palm just moved to the other side of his hand
> because he has suckers on his fingers and it knew
> you were looking.
>
>
> Kathleen

"You can't fight delusion with facts"

They say it can't be done. Just like they said the Yanks couldn't beat the mighty British.

Scores of Mormons are seeing the light each day. Thousands of delusional TBMs are waking up somehow from their delusions. Why? How?

Against all odds and conventional wisdom, facts are pulling ahead in this race. It's counterintuitive I know, but it is happening. Be encouraged and keep firing those facts at their delusions.

I disagree that facts are winning the day. I knew many of these facts and just kept right on paying and obeying.

What I believe is responsible for the wonderful, tremendous and growing exodus of members is the openly cruel behavior of the church towards (first) blacks, then gays. Plus interfering in the California election and asking the members to pay for those efforts, the public excommunications of the September 7th.

It all started with Mitt Romney running. The Mormons were all so sure that people would now REALLY want to know "more." And when the American public learned more, they said WTF?

That question, when entered into Google was the beginning of the flood of facts which, coupled with the greed and mean behavior of the church (buying a mall while asking members to go hungry one day a month "for the poor") created a TIPPING POINT.

I predicted 2012 would be the tipping point and lo and behold, I have more revelatory powers than the gerontocracy that hasn't prophesied or revealed anything in recorded memory.


Kathleen

That is so true, "you can't fight delusions with facts." FACT is, there is absolutely no historical truth to the BOM. There were no golden plates, no battle at Cumorah, no nothing.

The corporate heads know this and they are fast moving away from teaching that it is literal. They admitted the rock in the hat and are slowly trying to change the apologetics to account for the things that are just plain fact--things that they look sillier and sillier trying to defend as scientific, historical, linguistic knowledge progresses.

They are doing a good job from what I understand. I think there are many mormons who are fine with the new narrative that JS received it as revelation through the rock and it is a book full of parables like Jeezus taught. As we oldsters die out, the more the changes will stick.

An angel took the Nephite bones.
... oh, and the Lamanite bones, too.
... careful to not get em mixed up.
... but, they burned up.

Those flaming swords can be a real liability!

Battle of the Somme remains and UXO are still there...and they always will be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GZktYSrEMc

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/iron-harvest-somme-battlefield-still-8320935

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest

But not from the fictional Battle of Cumorah.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2017 05:47AM by anybody.

That battle never happened outside Smith's fevered mind.

OH NO !!!

Just the idea that the Church actually thought or thinks there are Nephite/Lamanite artifacts buried on that regular mountain is and of itself amazing, in fact, it is downright brain damage.

You will NEVER FIND ANYTHING RELATED TO BOM >>EVER. You have a better chance at finding Gandolf the Grey's Staff...haaa

From what I was told, this did not originate with Church leaders, but from at least two BYU professors, who wanted to find the stone box, in which was held the gold plates, urim and thummim, high priest breast plate, Laban's sword etc. The money for this, I was told, came from "donations" from rich Members, that these two BYU professors procured. The First Presidency gave them a "nod" to go ahead, and to share the findings. Well, they went all over the hill with the ground penetrating radar, more than once. And they went all over the area surrounding it. No stone box. No cavities, no human remains anywhere.

What happened to the Stone Box in which all these items were kept? What happened to the heavy rounded stone "lid" that Joseph Smith had to pry open with a dead tree limb? The Angel Moroni must have taken the stone box with him up into yonder heavens, because it sure AIN'T in the Hill Cumorah.

Where are the bones of the 2,000,000 dead Nephites and Lamanites? The swords, breastplates, Arnold Friberg helmets? GONE....gone with the wind.






Oregon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just the idea that the Church actually thought or
> thinks there are Nephite/Lamanite artifacts buried
> on that regular mountain is and of itself amazing,
> in fact, it is downright brain damage.
>
> You will NEVER FIND ANYTHING RELATED TO BOM
> >>EVER. You have a better chance at finding
> Gandolf the Grey's Staff...haaa

What? No caves capable of holding wagon loads of priceless gold plates, guarded by an angel and strewn about like unto a teenager’s bedroom? I’m shocked.

There is another hill called "Miner Hill" (sometimes called "Mormon Hill") not too far away, closer to the Smith farm, that did have a cavern, but maybe 8 feet by 10 feet. It had a large oak "door" over it at one time. Locals said Smith and Sidney Rigdon used it. Nothing found inside but sheep bones (sacrificed?), some old leather, and a small wooden desk. No gold plates. No stone box.


Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What? No caves capable of holding wagon loads of
> priceless gold plates, guarded by an angel and
> strewn about like unto a teenager’s bedroom?
> I’m shocked.

What ? No evidence of the battle of the body builders ? Dang !

The Church always gives itself an out. "Oh, there's nothing here? Then we must have the wrong hill." They never consider that maybe it was just all fiction to begin with.

Or, there's always the excuse of magic. The angel can do anything he wants. He didn't just take the plates back to Heaven, but he took the entire contents of the hill too.

Way to wreck the Book of Mormon for me, psychic.