Still don't know anything about the shooter.

Of course we do. Same story, different day.

All we know is that he is now dead.

NOTHING, mind you, do do with the easy access to guns, cowboy mentality. Racism, or politics in Texas, c/would it be?

Naw.

Around here (AL), several churches have lots of guns. One even has a shooting range behind it. If a gunman stepped into one of these places, the congregants would probably kill him and maybe each other in the chaos immediately.

I don't know what to think about all this. Be it a terrorist of any ilk or an unstable person, is this the new normal? If anyone is slightly miffed about anything, is he more likely to use a gun because he has one available?

Where I work, we have a training for "Active Shooter Preparedness" annually. Is this is the new drill like hiding under a desk for nuclear bomb drills back in the 50s?

Condolences to everyone involved. This is disturbing.

He killed 26 people in the span of about 15 seconds with an AR-15. It's hard to be quick.

Forks, like firearms, could be used for harm. Both are inanimate objects. Neither one is ‘scary’ sitting on a table. Looking around, it truly seems that forks are used for the most harm. Let’s ban forks!! Or yoga pants for the who do a lot of forking.

I hadn't heard one thing about this... its so sad and sickening, and yet according to the article this wasn't the first time this has happened there. What the hell? I wonder what the shooter's reasoning was .

According to the Facebook page, this is a town of about 350 persons, and the church itself has a membership constituting more than half that.

I'm guessing that church had a lot of black people or something and that the shooter was white.

Throw me a bone !

I need some info !

You are probably right Dave. Texas is such a racist State.

Thanks for the update Shummy.

That's it, Saucie; I've had enough of this "recovery" site.

Here is some REAL info. The killer was an atheist who wanted to kill Christians.

Devin posted on his Linkdin page ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/devin-kelley-bb2923b9 )

"Causes devin cares about:
Animal Welfare
Arts and Culture
Children
Civil Rights and Social Action
Environment
Health
Human Rights"

Devin sounds like a Leftist social justice warrior not a racist Republican Texan to me.

I think you guys just showed your biases...

You left out the part where he was a "Bible Class Leader"
He also served in the USAF.

How about we await the facts, before morons like you leap to judgement and spread bullshit?
BTW, my judgement of you is no leap.

"The killer was an atheist who wanted to kill Christians." ...

I didn't see that info anywhere.

Looks like YOU are the one showing bias.

"VBS TEACHER AID" ...

Maybe you can tell us what VBS is.

VBS sounds like "volunteer babysitter" because that is what he did. He wasnt even the teacher. Devin Patrick Kelley was the assistant to the teacher for 4-6 year olds in a First Baptist Church. Plus that was 4 years ago.

But here is the REAL information.

http://www.pacificpundit.com/2017/11/05/devin-kelley-facebook-liked-atheist-pages-cnn/

Devin Patrick Kelley liked many Atheist Communities on Facebook.

@Dave the Atheist, apparently you just see what you want to see.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2017 10:48PM by isthechurchtrue.

Devin was a volunteer teacher's aid for 4 to 6 year olds for 1 month in 2013 at a Baptist Church and that is your proof that he was a Christian...

That is some flimsy proof...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5053013/Devin-Kelley-outcast-preached-atheism.html

"Another said he talked 'about how people who believe in God were stupid'"

Devin Patrick Kelley preached atheism online and was court-martialed for assaulting his wife and kid.

Sounds like a violent atheist to me.

So you're saying he may have killed innocent people for believing in God?

How whacked is that if he did?!

Let's wait and see. Apparently he liked many athiest pages, but he also taught vacation Bible school so who knows?

All you have done is post bullshit christian websites.
Post some real objective websites instead of your fake news websites.

And how come none of those bullshit christian websites mentioned that guns are forbidden to those who have been dishonorably discharged ?

He must have got the gun from your buddies at NRA.

Actually, it is from news sites. Perhaps it is wrong, but a number of sites are reporting that he had liked a lot of atheist FB sites and that he also taught vbs. What this means is anyone's guess.I have no idea if this guys was an atheist, Christian or just nuts, but there is no reason why an atheist couldnt be a mass shooter.They are as capable of being radicalized, hate filled or mentally ill as any other person. We will find out more eventually, but now reports are confusing. I just find it interesting that Dave is so defensive about him possibly being an atheist when he would be making a big deal if he were religious.

Daily mail and pacific pundit are not legit news sites. Just fake news.

He may have been an Atheist or he may have a christer. He was obviously crazy.

I agree but have heard the same thing about the atheist websites on TV.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2017 12:23AM by bona dea.

I think he had way too many religious affiliations to be an Atheist. He liked Atheist websites ? What websites ? I know of multitudes of christers who like Atheist websites.

And although I'm an atheist, I'm not interested in and have never visited any atheist websites...

Try harder.

Very well observed, bona dea.

Atheists are no better or worse than the rest of us. They can be as arrogant or apathetic as everyone who doesn’t identify themselves as atheist. The only thing atheists share in common, we’ve been told countless times, is their shared ‘lack of belief in god things’ or some such variation.

But I get Dave’s paranoia.

This guy in Texas wouldn’t be the first atheist killer targeting religious people, if that is what he is and set out to do.

What Dave fears is what every Muslim fears: to be singled out and judged on the basis of someone else’s actions.

Human, who held his breath hoping the killer wasn’t an immigrant or Muslim.

"They can be as arrogant or apathetic as everyone who doesn’t identify themselves as atheist." ... you mean like christers ?

Atheists can be as arrogant or apathetic as christers. Well who'd a thunk it.

Yes the killer was bad. Was he an Atheist ? Maybe. Does this prove your theism is true ?

Did his religion or lack thereof cause him to kill ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2017 12:36AM by Dave the Atheist.

Of course not, but regardless of whether he is a Christian or atheist it doesnt prove anything about either group because all groups have crazy, angry , or just plain bad people. My point, and I think Human agrees, that it doesnt matter.There are good and bad Christians and goodnand bad atheists and this guy probably had emotional issues which were the real cause of this tragedy. The ubiquitousness of guns is certainly a big part too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2017 12:42AM by bona dea.

So he was forbidden to have guns. Where did he get the gun ?

Who said he was forbidden to get a gun? I certainly didnt, but it certainly isnt hard to get a gun in this country. The Vegas shooter had 39 semi automatic weapons stockpiled and apparently he bought them legally.What is your point here? Do you have one or do you just want to argue?

The government.

It's like this ...

Federal Categories of Persons Prohibited from Receiving

A delay response from the NICS Section indicates the subject of the background check has been matched with either a state or federal potentially prohibiting record containing a similar name and/or similar descriptive features (name, sex, race, date of birth, state of residence, social security number, height, weight, or place of birth). The federally prohibiting criteria are as follows:

A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years.

Persons who are fugitives of justice—for example, the subject of an active felony or misdemeanor warrant.

An unlawful user and/or an addict of any controlled substance; for example, a person convicted for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; or a person with multiple arrests for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past five years with the most recent arrest occurring within the past year; or a person found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided the test was administered within the past year.

A person adjudicated mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or incompetent to handle own affairs, including dispositions to criminal charges of found not guilty by reason of insanity or found incompetent to stand trial
.
A person who, being an alien, is illegally or unlawfully in the United States.

A person who, being an alien except as provided in subsection (y) (2), has been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa.

A person dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces.

A person who has renounced his/her United States citizenship.

The subject of a protective order issued after a hearing in which the respondent had notice that restrains them from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such partner. This does not include ex parte orders.

A person convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime which includes the use or attempted use of physical force or threatened use of a deadly weapon and the defendant was the spouse, former spouse, parent, guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited in the past with the victim as a spouse, parent, guardian or similar situation to a spouse, parent or guardian of the victim.

A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

The point is that it isnt that hard to get a gun legally or illegally.

@Dave The Atheist, Do you really think the Daily Mail is just making these quotes up?

Nina Rose Nava said 'He was always talking about how people who believe in God we're stupid and trying to preach his atheism'

Patrick Boyce said 'He was the first atheist I met.'

Michael Goff said 'always posting his atheist sh**'

You dont want to be singled out for being an atheist but you had no problem saying the church was probably full of black people and that the shooting was racially motivated with no evidence. Then saucie said that Texas is a racist state with no evidence.

The shooting had absolutely nothing to do with race at all.

I provided evidence for what I was saying so you blamed the NRA...
How could it be the NRAs fault when he was prohibited from owning guns because of his assault charges that he received 12 months for? He was already prohibited from owning guns.

My point was that Dave has no problem stereotyping believers and disrespecting them, but when someone suggests that one person who did something awful just might be an atheist, he goes into major denial. Double standard? Again I dont know or care what this guy's attitude on religion is.The point is Dave and a few others have a very obvious double standard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2017 01:35AM by bona dea.

I think that VBS is Vacation Bible School.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "VBS TEACHER AID" ...
>
> Maybe you can tell us what VBS is.

VBS likely stands for Vacation Bible School, generally a week in the summer where kids attend what is essentially a Bible-focused day camp. Church members send their kids there, but VBS often attracts kids from the wider community as well when parents want them to have some exposure to Bible stories. Many Protestant churches host a VBS.

Nah, evidently a white congregation.

Sutherland Springs is essentially a bedroom community for SA.

No need to politicize this tragedy.

Let us leave that up to the trumpistas.

At least 20 people were killed and 30 injured in a Texas church shooting Sunday morning, law enforcement sources told ABC News.

The alleged shooter is dead, and it appears there is no longer an active threat at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, about 40 miles southeast of San Antonio, police told ABC News affiliate KSAT in San Antonio on Sunday afternoon.

(former cop me):


When citizens are acting in 'self defense' with a weapon, we don't know which is which when we arrive...


just a thought, mind you.

There is nowhere that is safe from acts of terror in the mainland USA.

Guns are rampant, as are lone wolfs. Home grown terrorists and then just plain gone berserk nut jobs have carte blanche on society.

If they can't get a gun, go rent a Home Depot flatbed to do the job instead.

Another senseless tragedy. The only thing that differentiates this from the others is in how many fatalities this time. They are happening with greater frequency than ever. This makes the third mass killing in slightly more than 30 days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=Eb9Agt8KeDU

Looks like the victims were 94% white.

Wilson county sheriff says 'about 25 killed including the shooter, many were children'.

News reports say churches are beginning to talk about security at their churches. Can you imagine the LDS church issuing a calling in each ward to someone who is to guard the door of each meetinghouse? I wonder if they would be required to carry a gun. The thought of this just makes my blood run cold.

A priesthood security guard would probably just take his shoes off and hold them, waiting to knock the heels together at the first sign of danger.

Security is probably a good idea, but they should be qualified and trained. I dont want some trigger happy yahoo at the door or evwryone packing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2017 06:52PM by bona dea.

The shooter was a 26 year old from a neighboring town.

One of the victims was the pastor's 14-year old daughter. The pastor and his wife were out of town when the shooting happened.

Still waiting to hear what the motive might have been.

Cops fear these types of acts are copy cat killings. One follows another to try and outdo the one that came before.

Let's hope not. There are too many already.

:(

They keep changing the number of fatalities. It has been 15, 27, 25 and now 20, in a congregation of 50.

If it can happen in a tiny little church in the middle of nowhere, then it really can happen anywhere.

26 dead confirmed in the governor's press release ongoing.

It's the worst mass shooting in Texas' history.

One of the locals told a journalist that the shooter walked around the outside of the church house shooting through the walls before entering it. Upon entering the chapel he proceeded to shoot anyone who was still standing.

WTF?

Bodies were piled on top of each other @ the crime scene. I can only imagine the parents and loved ones piling on their children or spouses to protect them, and still weren't able to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2017 06:44PM by Amyjo.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2017 01:02AM by abby.

Ugh! Sorry, I wanted to delete my post! I can't seem to reply to the right poster.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2017 01:03AM by abby.

I am sadly remembering that the nation's first ever mass shooter was Charles Whitman who took out 17 souls sniping from the Texas tower in Austin Texas back in 1966.

Has it only been 51 years ago?

It was said on the news tonight there have been 60 mass shootings this year alone, where at least 1-2 or more people were murdered.

In '66 it was an anomaly. Today it's become the norm.

Yep. And I also remember that he left a note asking people to examine his brain. They ended up finding a large tumor eating his brain. These days, it just seems to be pissed of people for various reasons.

Nutcases watch the news and realize they can gain instant fame.

News media loves this stuff. Ratings go way up because we all love this stuff.

So the more its on the news, the more we'll have.

In NFL games, they refuse to show nuts who run onto the field because they don't want to reward them. But not so with mass killers. Give them what they want, and then try to ban guns.

IMO ordinary citizens have no business owning semi-automatic (or automatic) weapons. But it will be a long time, if ever, when we can get our fellow citizens to agree on that. Until then, these awful mass shootings will continue to happen. It's more wild than the (largely legendary) wild west.

I reckon someone will get a death count closer to 100 in a mass shooting pretty soon. I don't think we have seen the optimal mix of weapon, location and nutcase yet.