Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: Ex-dependent ( )
Date: November 10, 2017 04:31AM

The Me Too hashtag has gone viral and it has spread all over the world. Women tweet and tell how they have experienced misogyny in life.

The majority of women have been used in their workplaces because they can not say no to harrasment and risk their career.

It has been an eye-opener for me as a male. I have never been sexually harrased but I have experienced exploitation of my dependency on other people. It took me years to reach some kind of insight that I was being used by other people and that we all were not in the same boat from the beginning. It was like being mentally raped for years.

Can you identify yourself with the #MeToo-movement?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 10, 2017 05:30AM

Yes, in a variety of ways. I think that the sexual harassment of women in the workforce is all too common. I experienced it as a young woman on a light construction site (we were rehabilitating houses,) and in a restaurant.

In terms of a job or a career, women want the same things men want. We want to go out and do a day's work and to be treated fairly.

I was also attacked by a would-be rapist while walking home one evening. I was able to scare him off. He came up from behind and had gotten me in a chokehold. The same man went on to attack five or six other women, one very badly, before he was brought to justice.

In the course of the investigation, I was asked what I was wearing that night (I think it was by the prosecutor.) The man asking me was highly apologetic. He explained that the defense might bring it up, and he wanted to be ready for whatever was coming.

I was wearing a long sleeved oxford cloth shirt with exactly one button open at the collar, ordinary blue jeans, tennis shoes, and socks. That just screams, "I'm ready for it!" doesn't it? [/s] If I had been called to testify, I was planning on wearing the very same outfit so that I could respond, "This. I was wearing this outfit that you see right here."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2017 05:32AM by summer.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Becca ( )
Date: November 10, 2017 06:34AM

oh yes. And many women I know as well.
And they vary from being forced into full blown sex to a butt squeeze.

I do however feel bad for the men nowadays. I think it's a good thing that this discussion is finally out and about, But it must be scary for men.
It must put you on your guard around women in general.

It does me! And I'm a woman!
I've been in situations where, in a bar.. we had a few drinks, I laughed, chatted, flirted and maybe touched a guy without having specifically asked.

Is that sort of thing completely wrong?
Is every male co-worker now going to be on guard for fear of being accused?

Obviously, intimidation and abuse are wrong!!! I've been there...

but still..

do I make any sense at all?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2017 10:34AM by Becca.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Whiners ( )
Date: November 10, 2017 01:06PM

You make sense. My opinion: Half of these folks are racing in the victim olympics. There's NO comparison to being propositioned and actually abused sexually or raped.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 10, 2017 11:50PM

No, but being the object of sexual comments, jokes, or advances every freaking day wears you down over time. Especially when you are just trying to put a roof over your head like everyone else.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: MeanOldAnonWoman ( )
Date: November 10, 2017 09:37AM

Shouldn't our neighborhood misogynist be making an appearance about now?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: November 10, 2017 11:52PM

Does this refer to me?

Calling people names shows a lack of substantive thought. Embarrassing, actually.

There are bad men in the world. There are also bad women. Difference is, if you question bad women, you are simply labeled a hater.

Fortunately, as more men are told how bad they are, and more men are raped in divorce court and otherwise, the more will be checking out of the whole relationship game. Which is great news for women, as they will be less abused.

Also good for men, as they won't have to support a family. Can play more video games, and let the women build houses, keep the power grid going, and the roads paved, and the sewers unclogged.

Equal rights and all.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: moehoward ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 06:09AM

@Free Man
I agree there is some bad behavior by women but men have been in the power position for a long time, which does not make everything equal. To your divorce statement, there is an element of truth to that as I've been on the receiving end. Men aren't going to give up on relationships but if they think more about it and behave, it will be good for all.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 10, 2017 10:04AM

Misog therapist?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: deja vue ( )
Date: November 10, 2017 10:11AM

It seems that we are evolving into a more sensitive, sensible, awareness in society. Maybe we had to be shocked into doing something but I think it is great that it is happening.

I was harassed at a public function in front of others. My teenage children were around me when a lady I barely knew called out to me from on top of her horse that I could park my boots under her bed anytime as long as my a.. was in her bed. Others said she had been drinking but that didn't help the situation. I was embarrassed and offended and my kids seemed as offended and embarrassed as I was. Others around appeared shocked while some appeared to join in and think it was fun. Not to me it wasn't.

Also have had people I barely know pinch me on my butt or pat it and I am a guy. I am glad the time seems to have arrived to address this issue of boundaries. I am also uncomfortable with people patting or caressing my arm, back, head, etc..

Personal space for me is about arms length. I know there are cultures/people that seem to have no regard for personal space. I try to stay away from those people, even though they are kind and nice. (Crowded elevators do not work for me either. lol)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Sassafras ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 03:27AM

From verbal (sexual harassment by a supervisor in the military) to outright assault, the FIRST time happening when I was 16 and running with my Cross Country teammate (another tiny female) at the beach in Morro Bay, California. He stopped us to ask the time and when I responded, reached out and grabbed my breast, twisting hard. Then he walked off. My 16 year old Good LDS Girl brain was simply unable to process it. Although I KNEW this man did a bad thing, I felt somehow it was my fault. I thought at the time maybe I shouldn't have been running in an isolated area with only another girl. It also destroyed my belief in the effectiveness of the buddy system. I did not tell my parents nor anybody else for that matter.

I pack now nearly everywhere I go. Wo be unto the predator who thinks I or any other woman in my vicinity is easy prey.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anonuk ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 06:43AM

I agree with poster who called this 'victim olympics'. Girls used to be warned, upon entering the workplace, how to spot and respond to predators in the workplace, hobby club, nightclubs, etc. Boys the same age would hear what 'predators' did to girls, letting those boys know which behaviours are unacceptable and informing them of the appropriate response which would be utilised, which used to be a sharp slap in the face.

This appears to have stopped due to our modern culture of 'equality': slapping guys is no longer acceptable and some women have begun to behave like the men they claimed were abusive or hectoring.

All kids should, imo, as part of preparation to leave school and enter workforce, be informed as to what behaviour is appropriate and what the proper response to inappropriate behaviour is(like girls used to). Bringing back a slap to the face without fear of reprisal would be a start, let serial slapping be an HR investigation worthy offence and let us get back to a society where everyone shows everyone else a bit more respect, like we used to.

It seems to be trendy to identify one's self as a victim of some sort. Victims never win and someone who identifies as 'victim' rather than 'survivor' is excusing their future failures as not their own fault, ie scapegoating, which another thread is discussing. Education should not inform how someone is a 'victim' but how each individual can 'succeed' in some way because of changes in society bringing us to this day.

If one is not part of the solution then one is part of the problem.

My children will not experience the discrimination and inequality my, and other, generations endured, be that economic class, race or gender based. On a school trip to an historical mill the class were horrified to learn that women used to be paid far less than men for working the same machines. It was amazing to watch their responses - especially the muslim kids. A better society is waiting to emerge (I hope).

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 13, 2017 10:03PM

Two points.

First, you write that "all kids should. . . be informed as to what behaviour is appropriate and what the proper response to inappropriate behaviour is." I couldn't agree more. The proper response to sexual assault, however, is not slapping the aggressor in the face. It is telling the authorities and stopping the criminal before s/he goes further with others.

Second, despite your implication the women who are coming forward now are not victims. They were victims for the 40 years between the abuse and the present. By standing up today and telling the world what happened regardless of the social consequences, those women are shedding their victimhood. And they are making society better.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anonuk ( )
Date: November 14, 2017 05:57AM

I respectfully disagree, I think there is a lot of claims of harassment that were once 'normal' behaviour that mostly females had to deal with in the past. This deflects from those who have been violated in far more intrusive or systematic manners. Complaining about a grope of a knee as being 'victimised' by mysogyny is trivial as far as I am concerned. Not all men behaved so discourteously and with such terrible manners as one would believe listening to the masses of women on the march just now.

Predators will always be predators, and if children were more aware of the signs that could be 'miscontrued' then we would have a better society.

This 'victim olympics' as the other poster called them, just adds more fuel to the fire of those cultures who claim western culture is inherrently evil and corrupted and needs to be replaced entirely. Further, it makes me fearful for my son's future - is he going to be presumed a potential abuser by womankind in the future and thus discriminated against through pre-judgement?

Thank you for your opinion, I do understand why you see the benefit of the 'empowerment' you are viewing across the pond, perhaps I am biased due to my UK-tinted glasses and how the media is treaing this issue here, which we can all tell has been engineered to become a political problem in an attempt to create yet another opportunity for the marxists to try to overthrow our current government and - more importantly to them - stop our withdrawal from the european superstate.

Nothing is without political motive and who wins in this circumstance? No one will after new laws are demanded and enacted as a result of the million abused women march. Religious extremists will call for segregation of sexes as the god-ordained remedy to ensure women's safety, rather than making their own predatory men control themselves.

Is the pain of these women more important or more intense than previous generations? I think not, but not all men are to blame. I probably am biased on this matter since I am scots and we have a matriarchal society, which does have its own mysogynist proportion, but I have often seen men over the years calling out bad behaviour from other men when it happens, in the workplace and at play. Badly behaved women get called out too, of course.

Again, thank you for your input and opinion on my post, I can see the benefits you do, but think the long term fallout will not be worth the immediate gain.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 14, 2017 06:21AM

I think that this process will yield progress.

Misogynstic institutions harm men as well as women both in the sense that angry, fearful women are weaker wives and mothers; and in the sense that there are usually countervailing areas in which women get clear advantages, like divorce court. Prejudice, in short, hurts both the perpetrator and the victim. The present overt discussion helps because it clearly shows that sexual aggression in the workplace (Hollywood) or the local restaurant parking lot (Alabama) or the halls of Congress is entirely inappropriate and illegal. The cases we are discussing are clear ones at this point, far from any reasonable debate in my mind.

Will there be an overreaction? Perhaps. But it is time to get these issues out in the open, remove the stigma from reporting abuse, and teach everyone--boys and girls, men and women--what is socially acceptable and what is not. I think that is where we are going, frankly, and not towards some religiously-motivated separation of the sexes, but towards a world of greater clarity in which boys like your son know what is wrong and everyone feels safer reporting abuse. That is a world that will be better for both sexes and, inevitably, the other gender identities.

This doesn't detract from your point that harassment and abuse have always happened and have always hurt women. I accept that wholly. But that wasn't a good situation. and at the present juncture we really are talking about substantive abuse--forced fellatio in a dark parking lot, rape in the casting studio and the executive's hotel room, constant harassment of the sort that saps a woman's confidence in the boardroom. These are things that modern society can, and should, condemn both in principle and in practice. We may get to marginal issues at some point, but so far the discussion appears to me to be indubitably helpful.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anonuk ( )
Date: November 14, 2017 07:33AM

People in the public eye should be held to a higher standard and account than the ordinary 'joe public', more so if they take up public office, imo. All abuses of power and position are wrong, (again, imo). I would also agree that there is still a grouping in the workforce who belittle women rather than giving them the respect that is due to the position achieved by said woman - bad manners are everywhere. Outside the boardroom are other areas of work where men are commonly disparaged and discriminated against - purely for being male - by the mostly female workforce (eg, nursing, childcare, etc). It cuts both ways and I do realise I am only talking from my experience and knowledge. Common decency, respect and civility seem to have lost their appeal as virtues from a vast swathe of our western societies.

Public discussion is a good thing, but objectifying women (and men too) is socially acceptable in some quarters and, my opinion for the third time - this is unacceptable anywhere in society. I have no solutions in addition to bringing back good manners and respect to all.

Re: poster being asked during job interview if she was pregnant - I personally know of 3 different girls taking a job knowing full well they were pregnant and lying about it. Their employers subsequently had to pay 6 months maternity leave pay and for staff cover for an employee who had given them only 5 or 6 months total employment. For a small business this can be financially devastating, although in your situation it was highly unprofessional as this should not be a problem for an employer such as the navy. Bad manners, once again, from a person in a position of authority. And some folks wonder why kids do not respect authority, when 'authority' behaves with bad manners, which is disrespecting others. We learn by example - monkey see, monkey do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 12:56PM

I was sexually harassed several times when I was working at Thiokol. A lot of stuff goes on in work places and even as a naive, very sheltered 19-year-old up to age 28, there were a lot of things said and I laughed most of it off. I had a boss who sexually harassed every female and I was his secretary. He died 2 years ago. I keep track of these people. He got fired 8 years after I quit the place to have my twins. I KNOW he didn't want anything and I wasn't afraid of him, UNTIL I was blamed for some problems he was having because he was having an affair with a secretary in his dept. Then I was afraid. His boss finally caught him in a compromising position and they moved me to a new job (as the boss' secretary had told him what was going on and what pressure I was under). Then he wanted to be involved in my twins' lives as he loved little kids. I said no.

A guy I dated once at Thiokol started calling me in the middle of the night with what are they??? My mind these days. Anyway, I even got once of these calls at Thiokol over the phones there!!

I've been stalked by 4 people. One guy stalked me at the office I worked at just in the past few years. He was the custodian of the whole building. He quit when he put in a contract with my ex and he saw me with my ex, and he didn't get the contract. That is when he left me alone.

But I've never reported anyone. To me, most of it I chalk up to life experience. Luckily I've never been raped or assaulted, for which I'll be forever grateful.

My brother just told me how much he got harassed at the job he just quit. He is rather nice looking and a really nice guy, hard worker, etc. I think it goes both ways.

I'm NOT a feminist as I think feminists have taken it too far, but then when it comes to things like divorce, the men always seem to be the ones who lose out. They have to pay out a lot of money and yet they seldom see their kids. The kids should go to the parent most able to take care of the children if you ask me. I never asked my ex for spousal support, but my ex's wife got a load of money for spousal support. She could charge him for every hour his daughter spent with her, but she lived with him. I think men have no rights when it comes to divorce unless they have a lot of money and a good lawyer. AND I'm a female. I hate divorce laws.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Becca ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 02:10PM

Indeed. Men do get the rough deal a lot of times.

Things get really unfair both ways. Such a shame that we make life so difficult for each other huh?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 13, 2017 10:09PM

Hopefully we are making progress towards treating our various races, genders and other categories equally and with respect. In that context, what is happening now is a good thing. It should have happened decades ago.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: abby ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 01:33PM

I would be shocked if there is a woman who has not been harassed, groped, assaulted, or raped.

Mine was two high school teachers and a co-worker at college who groped me. What's sad is I'm relieved it's been nothing more than that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: abby ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 02:29PM

Yes it goes both ways. My son said no to a gay friend's advances and he said he'd out him as homophobic to anyone he knew.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: AnotherMeToo ( )
Date: November 11, 2017 09:49PM

I'm definitely another #metoo but I won't post it. Mine goes way past work place harassment into childhood sexual abuse. It has affected me in so many ways and has a huge impact on my relationships. The person who did it will never know how they devasted my life. They were young too, 15, but I was only 11 and it wasn't a one time thing nor consensual.

I think the #metoo voices are bigger than what you are seeing but some of us ar trying hard to move past that part of our lives rather than publically blast it.

I stand by all women who are sharing or holding their pain in. I don't think all the men who harassed even know the pain they caused but I have high hopes of a society of more aware men. I think men speaking out against will make a big impact. Be aware and say something when you see it happening.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Atari ( )
Date: November 14, 2017 09:05AM

I am so sorry that happened to you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: November 13, 2017 08:42PM

(Actually, when I was interviewing for the job) the guy interviewing me asked "Are you married?" (I was.) "What kind of birth control are you using?" (I knew, even then, that it was illegal for him to ask this, but hey - I needed the job.)

After I got the job, I told my husband about it. The job was in a Navy Regional Hospital, where I would be a civilian employee of the Navy. The guy asking the questions was a Senior Chief. At the time, I was married to a Lieutenant.

Once I was secure in the job, my husband came in and reamed the Chief a new one for the improper questions, and asked, "I'm not going to be hearing anything else along that line, am I, Senior Chief?" It was reassuring to hear a "NO, SIR!" from that nasty old Chief. (He remained very polite to me for the remainder of my time in that job.)

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In

Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **     **  **     **  **    **  **     **  **      ** 
 ***   ***  **     **  **   **   **     **  **  **  ** 
 **** ****  **     **  **  **    **     **  **  **  ** 
 ** *** **  **     **  *****     **     **  **  **  ** 
 **     **   **   **   **  **    **     **  **  **  ** 
 **     **    ** **    **   **   **     **  **  **  ** 
 **     **     ***     **    **   *******    ***  ***