What is the Church doing to get Elder Josh Holt released from captivity in Venezuela? Isn’t there anyone they can appeal to, or do they just wash their hands of the whole thing?

He was not a missionary at the time of his arrest so they don't care.

We also almost never hear about his wife, Theresa, who was arrested at the same time.

If they're eating zoo animals to stay alive, I would say he's in serious trouble.

Please pass the Zebra.

¿ is the RfM un-aware that the Mormon missionary program operates as a front for the u. s. american c.i.a. ?


if you didn know ~


now you know ~

Since 'mormon' and 'dumb' are synonymous, yes.

He was captured because despite multiple warnings he went to Venezuela trying to expedite a visa for his fiancee and her kids.

There was an opportunity to imprison an American and use him for propaganda.

His family plays up the he was a missionary.

Yeah, in a nutshell that is it. It was very stupid of him to go.

At this point, his best hope is to let his attorney do his job, and wait for everything to die down. At a certain point the Venezuelan government will get bored with feeding and housing him. At that point, a deal will be quietly made behind the scenes. Money will change hands, but not as much as the Venezuelan government hopes for.

Let's set the record straight- with my unbiased (yeah-right) overview.
Josh is from West Jordan, Utah. A 93% lds area. He returned from his mission waiting for the flock of lds maidens to throw themselves at his feet. Didn't happen because Josh was a big time Momma's boy (momma's fault)and a social misfit. So Josh- eager to get laid, started conversing, online, with a divorced Mom, with 2 kids, in Venezuela (on the US State Departments travel warning list) to "help learn Spanish". And, it came to pass that Josh wanted to marry this previously Catholic woman. A woman that he never met. A woman that would do pretty much anything to escape the civil war and economic hellhole that Venezuela has become (even converting to mormonism to move to Utah). So Josh, against all advice, with the lord protecting him, goes to Venezuela to marry his online bride. He doesn't wait the allotted time the Venezuelan law states for marrying a foreigner (Venezuelan Catholics don't take kindly to American mormons taking their wimmen), and marries his previously unmet bride. Venezuelan officials, just pissed off from the latest US sanctions against them, arrest Josh and his bride on weapons charges and plotting against the new regime. Josh gets thrown in the can, an ugly, nasty can, in a 3rd world country. Now, usually the course of action in dealing with trumped up charges in a country with a corrupt government is to find the right guy to pay off. But, here's the kicker, Josh's totally clueless mom goes on social media, the local news and any media outlet that will let her rant, and denounce the Venezuelan leaders and system that locked up her innocent baby. She called them names, called them out for not affording him his rights (he's not in the US-he has no rights) and demanding his release. This, just after the US State Dept added additional sanctions. That didn't work, so she enlisted Utah Senator Orrin Hatch, and eventually Donald Trump (who just imposed harsher sanctions on Venezuela) to get Josh out. Now, Venezuelan leaders care as much as what Trump and Hatch have to say as I do what Tommy Monson says. So, instead of shutting up and working through back channels, Mom goes on another media blitz. Now, Josh has no medical accessibility (nor do most Venezuelan citizens) and makes demands, it makes Josh's life worse. Now she goes on another media tear and demands that Josh gets released. Instead, Josh gets a court date. How do you think this is going to turn out? If Venezuelan officials cave to a Utah mormon mom, they lose all credibility. They'll make an example out of Josh. US officials have no diplomatic relations with Venezuela and don't plan to anytime soon. Josh is toast-with a lot of thanks to his mom. Yes, Josh was foolish to go there in the first place. Josh's mom, her bishop and the ward exasperated the situation with their letter writing and social media campaigns. Bottom line, Venezuelan dictators don't give a rats ass about mormons, their leaders, their prophet or the US President, unless they come bearing hundreds of million in gifts. It's a lesson of how to make a bad situation the worst-all in the name of righteousness. I wish the kid luck, but I hold no delusions that this will end well.

My angle was that the women that is now his wife may have been conspiring against Josh on weapons charges. Either she was promised money or that she wouldn't be killed. The totalitarian state monitors its citizens communications especially incoming IP addresse coming from the United States. Skype Email, video, text etc.

Venezuelan Government is probably hoping a similar $1.5 Billion dollar cash Obama payout similar to the Iran deal will occur. Except that IRAN actually had a re-negged contract to buy arms. The Venezuelan Gov has never had a Gov to Gov contract that went sour.

So maybe Venezuelan Gov hopes for a lesser amount or not? Just a theory.


I wonder if the Josh Holt situation was discussed with the loser mormon leaders and Orin while Trump was putting peanut butter into his car with Jesus picture's approval in the background. Could of been on the plane with Orin while heading to UT to discuss the Bears Ears / Staircase reduction.

The easiest solution is to pay off the right Government official that is also eating rats with his family to get his $$ and ship Holt back home.

Other than that the dumb eager to get laid Josh may very well become like Otto Warmbier. The wife isn't even that attractive. So, I guess the selling point is she can cook because many young American girls are almost worthless in the kitchen. They can learn of course but their mama probably wasn't that good either.

The latest story, based on a hearing yesterday in Venezuela during which Josh was bound over for trial:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2017/12/13/venezuelan-judge-orders-utah-man-be-tried-on-weapons-charges/

It also discusses the fact that his defense is being paid for by a Venezuelan business man with strong ties to the current government, and furnishes info on why this businessman is doing so: to get two convicted Venezuelan drug traffickers released, sort of like an exchange of prisoners...

"Holt said she hasn’t heard from her son since he made the distress call Monday morning, and she fears his cellphone was taken away in retaliation for her decision to release the recording."

This mother really is clueless, isn't she?

Clueless doesn't begin to describe it. She thinks she's another Ed Smart. She likes the media attention (and ward attention) and doesn't realize or doesn't care, that every time she has a press conference or launches another Facebook rant against his captors, they take it out on her son. His next communication with his mother needs to be "Shut up, Mom".

I feel for this young man, so do not get me wrong. I think he is in a lot of trouble. But I hold his religion as part of the problem. If he was taught like I was a Deacon, etc then he believes that he has more Priesthood power than any leader on earth. That was what I was taught. Did not believe it as I could not see it but maybe this young man was taught that. He goes on a mission and has a calling to call people to repentance. Maybe that made him feel superior. My guess is it did. He probably learned to pray on a mission the Mormon way. Which is not really a great way to pray. Prayer requires time, commitment, learning to listen to the spirit, learning to know if its your feelings or God's feelings, etc. This is real heavy stuff if you study theology. Of course if we use the temple prayer method it may work. I have never been impressed with that method. It did not work for my wife who passed or for my sister who passed. And my sister had Monson put her name on a super prayer role they use every Thursday when the 15, I mean 14, meet in the temple.

Whatever. He probably prayed about going down to marry this woman. Felt good about it (maybe confused the feelings with getting laid) He had the Priesthood. God would protect him. He was doing what God wanted him to do, many a daughter of Zion. He was going to take care of 2 little kids. Hey this is Service. What could possibly be wrong. He was just following a learned behavior.

Based on what I read about him and his family, not a lot of deep thinking took place in the family. The Church teaches the thinking has been done.

The church can do nothing unless Monson gets out of his bed and as a Prophet commands the leaders down there to repent or else. That will never happen. Prayer and fasting will be done by the ward and stake I am sure. Will it help, probably not. They are dealing with people who have hardened hearts.

That's my Mormon take.

Here are some questions that really need to be answered and may explain why he is in trouble.

1) How did he get his gun into the country. Did he lie to the custom authorities when they asked do you have a gun? Probably broke rules.
2) He broke the marriage rules for the country. His new wife should have been aware of them and did not tell him. Who knows.
3) Did she marry him to get to America and then once she was here was she going to bring her family here too? That would not make the USA government happy or the government where he is happy.
4) Did he not look at travel advisories issued by the USA government?

I think the government there tracked this young man from day one. This did not happen by chance. There is a lot more to the story than we have been told. Maybe his new wife and family were into some other stuff and he did not have the spirit of discernment.

I hope that some Church members down there can visit this young man so he does not feel so alone. Its a terrible, terrible story.

The good news is starting in January 2017, during Priesthood and Relief Society meeting the ward as a council can bring all their revelations and impressions and maybe come up with a way to free this young man. Now that would be a miracle.

The young man is in my prayers.

"Here are some questions that really need to be answered and may explain why he is in trouble."

"1) How did he get his gun into the country. Did he lie to the custom authorities when they asked do you have a gun? Probably broke rules."

I don't believe that he ever had a gun. The charges are phony. He's not smart enough or inclined to bring a gun on an airliner from the US and attack the Venezuelan army. He's basically being made an example to the US for imposing sanctions and meddling in their government.

2) He broke the marriage rules for the country. His new wife should have been aware of them and did not tell him. Who knows.

They knew what the law was, he traveled to "expedite the process" in a country that's laws are rewritten every week. Genius.

3) Did she marry him to get to America and then once she was here was she going to bring her family here too? That would not make the USA government happy or the government where he is happy.

Yes, that was the plan. For Josh to finally get laid, he promised to marry the woman AND bring her family to America-hence the great welcoming for a Catholic family to accept a mormon marrying their daughter. Never mind that he had no way to do that.

4) Did he not look at travel advisories issued by the USA government?

Yes. He was told by many people not to go. Not strongly enough by his naive parents that thought he'd be a mormon hero by rescuing this woman and also get a wife.

You can't blame the church. The church loves naive people as long as they keep tithing. The church could actually end this tomorrow. They are worth an estimated 100 BILLION dollars. They could give the Venezuelan dictator 500 million (one half of 1%) to let Josh free. The problem is that the US has 2 of the Dictators nephews in prison for drug trafficking. I'm sure any release would be contingent on letting 2 drug traffickers go free to save a stupid mormon kid. I don't think the political fallout would be well received. Josh's mom doesn't understand the dynamics, and her incessant nagging and antagonizing Venezuela to "let him have his rights" (he has no American rights in Venezuela, you arrogant/ignorant American) is just upping the ante. If his medical situation is really that bad (most doubt that) then Josh won't get out alive.
This is a sad situation, but one that Josh and his family created themselves.

...created AND ARE EXACERBATING on an almost daily basis...


ETA: I wonder if she has her mourning clothes picked out, and if she has practiced her how to do 'mourning' make-up?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2017 05:10PM by elderolddog.

"ETA: I wonder if she has her mourning clothes picked out, and if she has practiced her how to do 'mourning' make-up?"

You're damn right she does. She's been all over Utah media and it always been "poor me!!" I'm sure she's been told, many times, by friends and State officials, to shut up and work quietly through channels for her son's release. She can't do it. She thought (wrongly) that her mormon internet/social media campaign would bring in millions of followers and force our government to fix this. She severely miscalculated average Americans concern for a naive mormon that ignored warnings from friends, other people and the US State Department not to go to Venezuela. I'm sure there are many that think he got what he deserved and others that are glad that one less mormon is on their doorstep.

I would gladly face telling this mindless, desperate dupe to GTFO of my porch, rather than thinking of him as being used as a pawn my his effing momma, the morg at large, and corrupt politicians of any stripe.

He is a product of his upbringing, and to claim his situation to be his just deserts is to say that he didn't deserve a path out of indoctrination. The punishment far exceeds his very poor judgement, the hubris that seems to run in the family.

+1

"The punishment far exceeds his very poor judgement, the hubris that seems to run in the family."

Yes. However the hubris is still going full steam ahead.
Someone, with "mormon authority" needs to sit the mom down and explain, forcefully, why she needs to shut up. All the prayers from her social media campaigns aren't working. The old expression - "when you find yourself in a hole-stop digging", definitely applies here.

That's got to be the sick branch of the Holt family. I don't know if or how I might be related, but this whole thing has me SMH.

Bruce A Holt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's got to be the sick branch of the Holt
> family. I don't know if or how I might be related,
> but this whole thing has me SMH.


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