In that thread anonyXMo posted the following list of McTemples built in the same time period (1999-2000) as the Oklahoma McTemple. If the same materials and techniques were used then a number of these other McTemples will have to have their entire marble veneer replaced, including mold abatement, etc.

Of the list I know the Raleigh, Memphis and Baton Rouge McTemples are already getting repairs. If the climate is part of the issue, there are a number of others that were built in humid climates, at least as humid as OKC, which is actually pretty dry about 2/3 of the year. Maybe RfM members can drive by some of the other McTemples and see if there is any marble discoloration or any other signs of imminent failure of the exteriors of more McTemples built in this era.



Anchorage Alaska Temple
Colonia Juárez Chihuahua Mexico Temple
Guayaquil Ecuador Temple
Spokane Washington Temple
Columbus Ohio Temple
Bismarck North Dakota Temple
Columbia South Carolina Temple
Detroit Michigan Temple
Halifax Nova Scotia Temple
Regina Saskatchewan Temple
Edmonton Alberta Temple
[failed] Raleigh North Carolina Temple
St. Paul Minnesota Temple
Kona Hawaii Temple
Ciudad Juárez Mexico Temple
Hermosillo Sonora Mexico Temple
Oaxaca Mexico Temple
Tuxtla Gutiérrez Mexico Temple
Louisville Kentucky Temple
Palmyra New York Temple
Fresno California Temple
Medford Oregon Temple
Memphis Tennessee Temple
Reno Nevada Temple
Tampico Mexico Temple
Nashville Tennessee Temple
Villahermosa Mexico Temple
Montreal Quebec Temple
Fukuoka Japan Temple
Adelaide Australia Temple
Melbourne Australia Temple
Suva Fiji Temple
Mérida Mexico Temple
Veracruz Mexico Temple
[failed] Baton Rouge Louisiana Temple
{failed] Oklahoma City Oklahoma Temple
Caracas Venezuela Temple
Birmingham Alabama Temple
Porto Alegre Brazil Temple

I've heard that the Caracas, Venezuela temple has closed its cafeteria...

That sucks, they had the best empanadas. It was the only reason to go to that temple.

the price for them at the cash register in the temple cafeteria might not have been too bad, but the ten percent of a person's gross income to get into the place is killer.

The building permit for the OKC remodel shows the cost at 14 million

I knew that couldn't be for the whole project, maybe part of the tear-down mold remediation alone.

$14M from tax-free tithing income to Morg construction businesses times however many are going to need rebuild.

A quick check into Birmingham, AL shows the same design and facade materials as Oklahoma. I predict a closure there soon.

Does anyone know the original construction cost?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2017 06:43PM by nonamekid.

I can't vouch for how it was built but the last time I was at the Louisville, KY temple (about 5 years ago) the place looked like a dump. I couldn't believe how cheap it looked inside.

Just sayin.

Looking at their listing and photos on ldschurchtemples.org; it seems Louisville shares the same design and facade as the OKC McTemple. Only difference is in landscaping, some have white fences, others black.

In addition to the $14M rebuild cost for these, I wonder if a trial lawyer will catch on and sue for cost of treating health effects of mold on the Temple workers and visitors?

“Beautiful as it has been preserved in growing old,” the author wrote, “it is difficult not to sigh, not to wax indignant, before numberless degradations and mutilations which time and men have both caused the venerable monument to suffer … On the face of this aged queen of our cathedrals, by the side of a wrinkle, on always finds a scar.”

Victor Hugo wrote that about the Cathedral of Notre-Dame....in 1831. But it's there, and was built starting in 1163.

Montreal & Suva Fiji have already failed and been rebuilt.

Come to find out: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865676488/LDS-Church-not-just-temple-building-but-temple-renovating.html

If that's "temple grade" construction, I don't wanna know how the meeting houses are built.

I think we have figured out our "mormon smell". Mold, dirty diapers, sub standard non professional cleaning products and funeral potatoes.

I've said since these McNinnies were built that they will prove to be the financial downfall of LDS inc. they were all built when $$ was flush, now they will all need work, expensive work, and hopefully tithing income has decreased.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2017 04:33PM by Levi.

Tithing comes from people with good jobs. It's likely that the number of such paying tithing is falling. While meantime the number of members in 2nd and 3rd world countries is rising, and they don't pay much in tithing, so that in such countries the church is losing money, i.e., the amount they have to spend to maintain a presence is less than tithing brings in.

It's all part of ghawd's plan...

Also being rebuilt. First built in 2002, closed Oct 29, 2017 for "extensive renovation". Also 10,700 ft McTemple design.

I just came upon this tread, but I do not know the backstory of how the marble is failing in these temples. I would be interested in knowing what exactly the problem is as I am an expert in stone construction with 40 yrs experience. Can anyone fill me in?

BB

battlebruise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just came upon this tread, but I do not know the
> backstory of how the marble is failing in these
> temples. I would be interested in knowing what
> exactly the problem is as I am an expert in stone
> construction with 40 yrs experience. Can anyone
> fill me in?
>
> BB

Since you are an expert on stone building construction, go ahead to inform everyone on how well it works when the "stone" building is really a wood frame structure that has to support the heft of stone facia plates, I.E. it really is NOT a stone (construction) building, it is just posing as one.

Even though (cosmetic) stone facia plates APPEAR to be really solid, they do NOTHING toward supporting their own weight.

I am wondering how such an arrangement EVER received engineering approval or passed building code. Go ahead, tell us.

Real "stone" buildings, like Notre Dame, or the Coliseum in Rome, are not built anymore because there is no need for such large stones to hold the weight of the roof and adjoining structures. The advent of wood and later steel framing made the use of large hefty stones unnecessary. Almost all buildings today are either wood framed, steel beam skeletons or structural concrete. When a stone "skin" is installed it can be veneer, which is usually 5/8" thick stone cemented onto a mortar bed or a mechanically fastened stone veneer usually 1" thick or thicker, fastened with bolts, screws or splines. Problems with mold or pieces of marble falling off the out side of the temples lies not with the type of installation, but with the quality of the installation. If there is mold present, the contractor did not do an adequate job in waterproofing the building. If stone tiles are falling off, he did not install them using proper industry standards. My experience tells me that if the job is not competitively bid, or if the only reason to award a project to a contactor is based solely on the low bid or the contactor being a "friend", the installation will most likely fail. Doing it quick and cheaply never lasts. It seems to me that the Church isn't interested in quality.

The church still uses reinforced concrete on some of the larger and more costly temples.

Cardston, built in the early 1920s, might be the last LDS temple built of hewn rock as opposed to facing over frame or reinforced concrete.


"White granite quarried from a site near Kootenai Lakes in Nelson, British Columbia. Every stone was hand-hewn. Additions have been made of precast granite."

http://ldschurchtemples.org/cardston/


The temple after that, Mesa, was built with facing over reinforced concrete.

"Concrete reinforced with 130 tons of steel. Exterior is faced with glazed egg-shell colored terra cotta tiles."

http://ldschurchtemples.org/mesa/

I assume that was the end of the hewn-stone temples but it's possible there are a few others, I didn't look through the whole list.

not a mo no mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The church still uses reinforced concrete on some
> of the larger and more costly temples.

You mean on the stuff that they want to last more than 20 years?

"It seems to me that the Church isn't interested in quality."

"The Church" exists in large part to move the untaxed income from donations to a select few who have the right connections. This has ultimately influenced nearly every decision ever made in modern LDS history.

The "Marble" in the Celestial Room in the NYC temple is only painted! I know catholic churches where I live and the marble is fine in a fairly humid climate and over a hundred years old.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2017 08:43PM by rhgc.

When I was a Mo, I recognized the interior pillars of the Las Vegas temple were painted to look like marble. It was obvious from across the room, as if they didn't even try to make them look real. LDS temples are cheap knock-offs of religious buildings.

The pillars in the old tabernacle in SLC are painted. Mormon guides are proud to point out the skill of the early mormons in making them look real. Creating a great facade is a big part of the mormon tradition. Its kind of like walking onto the stage of a TV show. It is all smoke and mirrors.

I suspect that there will always be building and remodelling because this is how the church funnels tax-exempt tithing into the for-profit corporation. When the San Diego temple was put out for bid my TBM father put in a bid to build it. He was willing to work for free on it because he wanted to build the temple. In the end the winning bid was millions of dollars under everyone else's bid. My father cut so many corners in his estimate and he was genuinely surprised when his low bid was under-bid by someone else...and by a big margin to boot. Of course the winning contractor was from....(drum roll)...Utah. So, an out-of-state contractor was able to WAAY underbid everyone else to get the contract? If I were the inquisitive type I would have to find out who owns the construction companies getting all of these bids. That money could easily go back to the church leadership. I suspect that once they were awarded the contract a slew of building change orders were filed to help the contractor make a huge profit. It would be an unspoken agreement between the contractor and the church...and probably illegal in some way. This is all my hypothetical reasoning so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I bid large construction projects like this every day. What you described is absolutely unethical and shows a lack of honesty and integrity on the part of the LDS Church and the participating general contractor. An open bid should be just that, not a back room deal organized by two criminal parties. Other bidding general contactors and sub contractors would have every right to sue the Church in court over unfair bidding practices. I wonder if that has ever happened?

praydude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The pillars in the old tabernacle in SLC are
> painted. Mormon guides are proud to point out the
> skill of the early mormons in making them look
> real.

Wow, so a (probably hollow, probably pine as in probably not even a hard wood) wooden column painted to look like stone is supposed to be more impressive than an actual stone column ....in MORmON minds.

That is so (UN) impressive considering the many Catholic structures that feature REAL stone columns.

pillars in the SLC tabernacle. As far as I know, the pillars were not originally "marbled". I recall questioning why anyone would want to restore a historic building in a way that was not really a restoration of the original.

Anyone have anymore info on this?

I recall that shortly after I learned about the restoration (can't recall exactly when that was-20 or so years ago) I made a trip to the tabernacle while visiting from NY. At that time from what I could find out, the pillars had not originally been marbleized.

notmo

notmonotloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pillars in the SLC tabernacle. As far as I know,
> the pillars were not originally "marbled". I
> recall questioning why anyone would want to
> restore a historic building in a way that was not
> really a restoration of the original.
>
> Anyone have anymore info on this?

That is the thing! When an organization is founded on phony (or evil) and promoting phony (and /or evil), then Phony ( Evil) is like to permeate that organization. NT Jesus had a commentary on that. Something about bad trees and the kind of fruit that they produce.

I am supposed to be very busy with missionary work and reactivation work where we try to convince people how thoroughly open minded, transparent, and honest the Church is on everything so they will want to learn more and gain strong testimonies that the Church is true. Then they will want to get fully assimilated into full obedience to the Lord's holy middlemen. Thus I have little time for threads like this, especially if they are negative.

What I can say about temple construction work is that the leaders and managers over it are supposed to be effectively utilizing the Gifts of the Holy Ghost. This makes rework rare or never. Otherwise it would just show that the Church is a clueless fraud with people sho have no special gifts.

Well as this thread seems negative on this topic then I cannot read it because of how I have been gloriously conditioned by the beloved Correlation program.

Eh!?

Interesting that you used the word "facade". mormonism is a facade.

Faux finishing is a fascinating adjunct to my lifetime trade. Painting a steel door to look like oak set me apart from ordinary splash and dash paint daubers.

I remember once reading about how Holy Joe picked up the faux finishing trade, using a feather to apply woodgrain finishes to his swanky Nauvoo bar and lounge.

Methinks such skill must have come naturally to a born faker.

story of Brigham Young ordering the SLC temple to be dismantled and started again because it wasn't right. They don't seem to be worried about getting it right the first time these days. The recently rebuilt Ogden temple had to be rebuilt because it was not sufficient earthquake proof.

In Seattle, with rain & freezing,using a flat roof is Crazy! They must be renewed after about every 10 years...

the 10th ward building on 130th had a flat roof (I haven't been there in Decades)