I am a 40 year old man. After years of intermittent pornography use and masturbation, by wife and bishop decided I was a "sex addict" and needed therapy.

I honestly didn't believe there was much abnormal with me, but With my marriage and salvation on the line I not only agreed, but put my whole heart and soul into becoming "cured".

I spent a year in the church's 12 step ARP program.
Then a year in a sex addiction program by Maurice Harker called Men of Moroni (also a youth version called Son's of Helaman). After 2 years I felt worse so I tried to find a "professional" and found a CSAT (Certified Sex Addiction Therapist).

After nearly 30 months of Sex Addiction Therapy I had no self esteem, divorced, and suicidal.

I am looking for people, groups, blogs of Mormons who have been forced into these programs by bishops and well meaning wives. My concern is that we are taking good men, labeling them "sex addicts", forcing them into bull shit programs that have no scientific basis or proven success, and ruining lives just like mine. It is a very shameful issue and I would like to shed light on this increasingly common mormon practice.

Thanks

My TBM brother is in a Mormon 12 step group because of pornography "addiction". He seems pretty sold on it.

Dorothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My TBM brother is in a Mormon 12 step group
> because of pornography "addiction". He seems
> pretty sold on it.


I initially felt good about the 12 step. But eventually I realized that nothing really changed. My guess is I felt better because I realized many other people in my stake had the same problem and I didn't feel as isolated (which made the problem worse). One of the things I couldn't get over was step 1: admit you are powerless. That idea went against gospel principles in my mind. I did however try to force this idea in my soul and it really made me feel worthless. There were other problems for me.

There is growing scientific evidence that, for a lot of people, those 12-step programs, no matter what they're for, are absolutely worthless. Unfortunately, they fit into a society of people who want to believe that they do/or will work so they go on.

Sexuality is normal human behavior, regardless of whether one is married or not. Unfortunately, neither our schools nor our religions are teaching that.

Yes...it makes me more than angry to believe that these programs work...and when you are not “healed” by them...the only answer is you are evil. As a direct result of this thinking I became suicidal. I admit I am gullible...I believed...after going through these programs unchanged...I could only conclude I was inherently evil and not only unworthy but according to the addiction model...my sex addiction is irreversible and progressive and I will become more and more violent. I believed what was taught and I began to believe I might be a threat to my own children. My own protective instincts made me think that Suicide was a preferable option to protect my children. I now know there is a lack of scientific evidence for such belief.

My post sounds like these programs are good for some people. I’m sure some groups are worse than others. Maybe my brother’s group is less toxic than some. I think they are harmful.

I tried to tell him that I didn’t think viewing pornography was evil. He said it had damaged his marriage so I left it alone.

I’m so sorry you went through that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2018 11:55AM by Dorothy.

Welcome to the board. What you experienced is brutal and wrong. I don’t know if there’s a specific support group, but others may know. If it helps, please continue to post.

I mentioned this earlier on the board, one of my son’s teenage friends was forced to drop out of high school and go through “porn addiction therapy.” I found out through his grandfather!

If every man who look at porn and masturbated to it were forced to wear scarlet Ps and Ms on our chests, we’d all be wearing PM shirts.

Public shaming, humiliation, and making everything an addiction are hallmarks of a cult.

I’m very sorry you were the victim of such abuse.

BYU Boner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Welcome to the board. What you experienced is
> brutal and wrong. I don’t know if there’s a
> specific support group, but others may know. If it
> helps, please continue to post.
>
> I mentioned this earlier on the board, one of my
> son’s teenage friends was forced to drop out of
> high school and go through “porn addiction
> therapy.” I found out through his grandfather!
>
> If every man who look at porn and masturbated to
> it were forced to wear scarlet Ps and Ms on our
> chests, we’d all be wearing PM shirts.
>
> Public shaming, humiliation, and making everything
> an addiction are hallmarks of a cult.
>
> I’m very sorry you were the victim of such
> abuse.


It was so hard for me to realize I was being abused, because they blamed my depression, insomnia, and suicidal thoughts all on porn permanently damaging my brain. I do believe these programs are very damaging and abusive which is why I want to do something about it.

This is a classic example of all-or-nothing thinking. I’m not a neuroscientist (perhaps others here can weigh in) but, there’s scholarly debate on the effects porn viewing. We know that porn viewing stimulates dopamine—that’s why we find it pleasurable. But, it’s a stretch to suggest that it permanently damages the brain.

Everyone fantasizes, almost everyone masturbates, and given the sheer volume of porn, most of us, sometime in our lives, consume it.

I am concerned that you were shamed for simply being human. If you feel it’s something that you find is disrupting regular relationships or your daily life, a supportive counselor would work with you to understand and modify behaviors, not shame you and push you deeper into self-loathing and depression.

I joke a lot here about masturbation because I was horribly shamed for it. I was once informally disfellowshipped because I confessed to a bishop that I jacked off. Imagine that! A single, lonely man, in his 20s, living alone in a new city found pleasure in his body. Eventually, I learned to lie about it.

If you find that you’re still hurting because of the pain and shame, find a counselor who can help you work through it. Many hospitals have mental or behavioral health clinics where practitioners follow standard mental health/counseling protocols.

My hope is that you’ll find healing from the abuse. Very best wishes, The Boner.

Welcome to RFM.... I'm so pissed off at hearing what was

inflicted on you. Naturally the church has no respect for

personal boundaries...The damage they inflict on people in the

name of religion is frightening.. if you're on facebook you could

do a search on that subject or just join an exmormon group.

I'll do a search on it for you and let you know.

We are so glad you are here.....

There are a few exmormon groups on facebook. Just do a search on

it and take your pick.

Maybe from one of those groups you could determine if there's an

exmormon group for people who were forced into those sexual

addict groups. Good luck !!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2018 10:01PM by saucie.

I was a happy mormon kid, because I accepted that I'd rather masturbate than be a ghawd. So I was fine lying my ass off in my worthiness interviews.

Or I'm just lazy...

I like to think that you were just smarter than the rest of

the mormon kids.

I have deeply regretted putting my trust in my bishop and even my wife. It is so hard to admit something that is so shameful and demonized...only to have your confession used against you by those you love. It is a painful rejection to endure.

I have a cousin. Well, I have a lot of cousins, so many that we aren't very close.

But one of them, a dozen or so years ago, confessed (or was confessed by his wife) to a bishop that he had a porn problem. He went through months of counseling. I don't think he participated in any of those programs; I'm not sure they existed then.

Anyway, after the counseling failed, he was excommunicated. He told me, having no privacy left, that he deserved the punishment because he failed to stay away from the dirty pictures. He also lost his marriage and family. I don't know what else was going on in the relationship but the porn fiasco was a significant issue.

I remember being horrified by it all. The man felt that he deserved to love his family as well as his religion and his privacy. I wonder if he has woken up to it all yet.

This is why I hate the fucking church. I hate it.

He was not more of a "sex addict" than any other middle-aged Mormon man. They are "half-starved" sexually as it is, between the church and their wives doling it out whenever they feel like it, because the man doesn't have access like other guys do.

Even after years of inactivity (mostly because of me) he was afraid to try alcohol, because, as he told me, "I have an addictive personality. What if I LIKE it?" He had a point there, because his father, a nevermo, was a terrible alcoholic.

DH has tried a couple of alcoholic drinks and just doesn't care for them.

As for being a "sex addict," read Patrick Carnes. That guy literally wrote the book about sex addiction. And he convinced me that my DH's case was NOT addiction.

Just another reason to hate the Mormons.

Anon for this one Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
........
>
> As for being a "sex addict," read Patrick Carnes.
> That guy literally wrote the book about sex
> addiction. And he convinced me that my DH's case
> was NOT addiction.
>
> Just another reason to hate the Mormons.


The last porn addiction treatment was by a CSAT (Certified Sex Addiction Therapist). It is my understanding Carnes started the CSAT program. Prior to the first visit I took a 400 question "sexual addiction survey". I believe any male that took this test would be found to be a "sex addict". All of my friends and my siblings told me not to go to this CSAT, because they would only give me a "certified" diagnosis of "sex addict". I had faith that someone not affiliated with the church would see things more clearly. I had a panic attack and cried for hours after he announced to me...with my wife in the room that he considered me a "sex addict". What I have learned now is there in fact is evidence that nearly every man that takes the 400 question quiz and seeks help from a CSAT is diagnosed as a sex addict. This official "sex addict" diagnosis from a "certified" sex addiction therapist was the nail in the coffin ending my marriage.

Of course he proclaimed you a sex addict. It's called job security. I'm betting that he labels 90+% of all that he meets with as sex addicts. It's like asking a car salesman if he thinks you need a new car. He's not going to tell you "No". I know it sucks right now. But, the good part is that you are free to ignore the church and find a good woman that doesn't have such puritanical views and won't rat you out to some phony church "authority". Spouses that pick the church over their spouse are not worth it.

But, but, but... I thought the whole idea of the Celestial Kingdom was so the man can give in unstoppably to his sexual desires.

That's what polygamy was all about, and we all know that the polygamy ban was but a temporary hold, to be completely rescinded once a male makes it to the ultimate level. Our own dear new prophet is already in the higher state, with two wives already.

And how does one get to the ultimate level? By becoming familiar with the mechanics of the endowment ceremony. You don't need to find Jesus, you don't need to love one another, you don't need to find your bliss. All you need is to know the secret handshakes and own your own set of white robes.

I could go on. I won't.

On a positive note, you are now divorced and free of your abusive, controlling wife. If you have left Mormonism, you are now free of your abusive controlling bishop and the church.

You are free of the shackles of some made up disorder they invented in order to control you. You may need some real therapy from someone who is actually qualified to provide therapy for the abuse you endured, but I would focus on wonderful feeling of freedom. It is ultimately priceless

Let’s be careful, however, about suggesting that sex addiction doesn’t exist. Just as with anything else, people can become addicted. Please be wary of believing anyone who says it doesn’t exist, because it does. When a person becomes compulsive about any behavior it is a problem. Compulsive eating is an addiction, just as is compulsive sexual behavior.

LeftTheMorg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let’s be careful, however, about suggesting that
> sex addiction doesn’t exist. Just as with
> anything else, people can become addicted. Please
> be wary of believing anyone who says it doesn’t
> exist, because it does. When a person becomes
> compulsive about any behavior it is a problem.
> Compulsive eating is an addiction, just as is
> compulsive sexual behavior.

There is evidence suggesting sex addiction is rare or really doesn't exist. And if it does exist it should be diagnosed by a doctor and treated with research based therapy that has proved to be effective.

Most sex addicts are diagnosed by clergy, wives, or online surveys. And the "diagnosis" is never questioned. No one gets a second opinion. When a "disease" like "sex addiction" carries with it such powerful and tremendously harmful connotations....it is extremely reckless to throw labels around or to assume a bishop or an online survey are sufficient to be a definitive diagnosis. But it is my belief bishops and wives are "diagnosing" sex addiction all the time and NO ONE IS QUESTIONING THE DIAGNOSIS!!!!

I'm a dentist...to diagnose something as simple as tooth decay a person must graduate from a accredited school, attain state lisence, take needed radiographs, a proper oral exam. Failure to diagnose properly leads to malpractice claims or loss of license.

This is perfect!

Thank you for your posts. The sex addict diagnosis seems rather flimsy and it is easily used to further the cause of the church. Such matters should be dealt with by professionals who are not tied to the church in any way.

I'm not doubting that there are sex addicts. I'm just saying that this label is thrown around a lot and it becomes a pressure point to manipulate people.

Wait. You mean you don't believe your neighborhood accountant, businessman or engineer is not qualified to give professional medical, psychological or marriage advice? What a concept!

As Mormons define sex addiction, it is clearly a made up disorder.

There may be individuals who have sexual addiction, but occasional porn watching is normal, not disordered

Think of it like this.

A fraudulent group invented a problem, then invented the "cure" for that problem.

Unfortunately you were told by people who had everything to gain from it that you had a problem and they'd "fix you" probably for a price.

Reality is you were a normal human being and were taken advantage of.

I hope you find the peace you need.

Heartless Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Think of it like this.
>
> A fraudulent group invented a problem, then
> invented the "cure" for that problem.
>
> Unfortunately you were told by people who had
> everything to gain from it that you had a problem
> and they'd "fix you" probably for a price.
>
> Reality is you were a normal human being and were
> taken advantage of.
>
> I hope you find the peace you need.

Yes this ^^^^^^^^
These "sex addiction therapists use religion, pseudoscience, fear to make you believe that their program will help you become "sober". Unfortunately they claim you will be a sex addict for life and never be cured only "in recovery". If the program doesn't work they don't take responsibility they blame you for being a liar, not doing the program, or your brain being permanently damaged.

I believe the things the women were taught about "sex addict" men directly lead to women choosing to divorce. Why would you stay with a man who is a life long liar, cheater, treat you like a sex object????? (they teach you are an addict for life and you cannot change...just be "in recovery = sober").

Extractor41 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> I believe the things the women were taught about
> "sex addict" men directly lead to women choosing
> to divorce.

Maybe. I believe the reality is your wife (and you, for a time) chose to believe so many lies (which is Mormonism), that it's impossible to trust one's spouse when one is in that world.

I wish that were not the case. But we are talking about brain washed individuals. It's every man for himself.

No doubt you were full paying tither through all this abuse which is insult upon injury.

Porn is a Fantasy.

After knowing some of those micro-managing Lds Molly Mormon women, 2 + 2 comes out to be ... 4

Men want to screw (or at least watch screwing) young, slender, women who have huge boobs and can suck a basketball thru a garden hose, and not be lectured about tithing or temple attendance?


O.My.Heck!

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Porn is a Fantasy.
>
> After knowing some of those micro-managing Lds
> Molly Mormon women, 2 + 2 comes out to be ... 4
>
> Men want to screw (or at least watch screwing)
> young, slender, women who have huge boobs and can
> suck a basketball thru a garden hose, and not be
> lectured about tithing or temple attendance?
>
>
> O.My.Heck!



If it is evil to spend time dreaming of unattainable standards...is there anything more ridiculous than the dream of the perfect peter priesthood husband or a functioning honest celestial marriage (temple porn).

There’s a difference between intermittent use of pornography and intermittent masturbation and actual sex addiction which is compulsive behavior. My husband truly was a sex addict. He compulsively masturbated every day, and then it became more than once a day. He wasn’t interested in making love; he just wanted to masturbate. His doctor (non-LDS) referred him to sex addiction treatment I later learned he was not able to form an emotional bond; sex was just a mechanical, compulsive act for him. If a person cannot form an emotional bond with another person, then there’s something wrong.

I’m not familiar with what people may experience within Mormon definitions, as our experience was totally outside the church. I just know that sex addiction does exist. Let’s be careful about claiming it doesn’t. Just because 1 person isn’t really a sex addict, it doesn’t mean someone else isn’t.

The Mormon Church probably takes it too far.

LeftTheMorg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There’s a difference between intermittent use of
> pornography and intermittent masturbation and
> actual sex addiction which is compulsive behavior.
> My husband truly was a sex addict. He compulsively
> masturbated every day, and then it became more
> than once a day. He wasn’t interested in making
> love; he just wanted to masturbate. His doctor
> (non-LDS) referred him to sex addiction treatment
> I later learned he was not able to form an
> emotional bond; sex was just a mechanical,
> compulsive act for him. If a person cannot form an
> emotional bond with another person, then there’s
> something wrong.
>
> I’m not familiar with what people may experience
> within Mormon definitions, as our experience was
> totally outside the church. I just know that sex
> addiction does exist. Let’s be careful about
> claiming it doesn’t. Just because 1 person
> isn’t really a sex addict, it doesn’t mean
> someone else isn’t.
>
> The Mormon Church probably takes it too far.


I am truly sorry for your pain. I am honestly not an expert in the field...I am just someone who has been put through a series of therapy that left me shamed, demonized, and had no scientific basis for diagnosis or treatment. It was my own version of hell...I wanted to die.

I am not arguing that some people have significant problems. You illustrated my point...most often I believe sexual problems are a symptom of deeper problems (emotional problems/cumpulsive/mental illness). It was my experience that Those deeper mental health emotional problems are completely ignored in the church's 12 step program and the Men of Moroni program and the CSAT of which I participated for more than 30 months. At no point during that time did anyone recommend I see a psychologist for diagnosis and treatment for my own underlying problems (anxiety and adhd and depression). In my experience there is a moral "freak out" about sex in the mormon community and we ignore that a human being is suffering from serious mental emotional problems. Again...I don't mean to disrespect your pain, and it is your choice what you want to allow in your relationships...but it is very inaccurate to say a man just chooses sex versus understanding what is really going on with his broken mental/emotional state or perhaps it is just normal. You can just judge the action...but it is less compassionate to do so...I LOVE MY WIFE AND FAMILY...absolutely my number one priority...

As I have said...I believe in accurate diagnosis, comprehensive mental health therapy proven to be effective. Bishops and angry wives should not be the people diagnosing and sending someone straight to sex addiction therapy.

Being unable to form emotional bonds and masturbating frequently, if not compulsively.... it sounds like the inference is that the latter begat the former. Maybe the masturbation issue stems from the inability to form emotional bonds, and not the other way around??

Something may be wrong, but be careful as to what stems from what.

gettinreal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Being unable to form emotional bonds and
> masturbating frequently, if not compulsively....
> it sounds like the inference is that the latter
> begat the former. Maybe the masturbation issue
> stems from the inability to form emotional bonds,
> and not the other way around??
>
> Something may be wrong, but be careful as to what
> stems from what

This is a point that these programs get 100% wrong and I believe it is malparactice. I was in about month 22 of 30 and had counseled directly with the founder of men of Moroni. I was discussing some recurring feeling I was having with him. I explained I had low energy, difficulty sleeping, loss of appetite (I lost 30 pounds), and I conveyed to him that I recognized I was frequently struggling to recall commonly used words (names of instruments, peoples names, etc). What he counseled me was that porn permanently requires the brain and was the CAUSE of ALL of my symptoms. I remember listening to that...and at the time I absolutely knew I hadnt looked at porn or masterbates for nearly a year...so when he blamed porn it hit me that there might possibly be the symptoms of a diseas and not the cause. It felt like apostasy to think the opposite of what I was being taught. I went home, put my list of symptoms into google....DEPRESSION. I was so mad. I was so confused. I felt betrayed. How had I been counseling these programs and “experts” for almost 2 years and NOBODY EVER SUGGESTED to me that I might have a MENTAL ILLNESS. No...all of my behavior was because of lack of moral integrity.

Thanks to google...I decided I needed treatment for depression...I was put on a medication...and within several weeks I felt like a new person! I started enjoying socializing again. Enjoyed hobbies again. My sleep patterns improved.

it boggled my mind that none of these “professionals” managed to notice that I had symptoms of one of the most common mental illnesses and thought maybe it would benefit me to have it diagnosed and treated. What I later learned...and this blows my mind...is that a therapist CANNOT DIAGNOSE mental illness. To my understanding you must be a psychiatrist or psychologist to diagnose mental illness. I honestly felt betrayed. I trusted these professionals. I paid thousands of dollars for sex addiction therapy. I couldn’t understand how this was legal for these people to put themselves out there as “professionals” and not be comprehensively diagnosing mental Illness and using science based treatments with proven efficacy.

This is when I began to learn there actually want a real diagnosis...no one was being told they were not addicts. They just took their money and started them in the program. Which is where I believe it is accurate to say “every Norman man a sex addict” because these programs consider everyone an addict.

I apologize for the typos in the above post...I don’t see how to edit them.

Wow. What you experienced was horrible. I’m shocked that they labeled you a sex addict when you clearly were in control of it by not looking at porn or masturbating for a year. A YEAR! An entire YEAR! That pretty much establishes, in my opinion, that it wasn’t compulsive, if you could refrain from it for an entire year. In my husband’s case I doubt very much he was able to go an entire day without masturbating. The reason I know is because every time I would go to try to talk to him (his office in our home), he nearly always had his erect penis out. (He did have a very nice one I must say). What was so sad is he didn’t care about my sexual desires. It was all his own self-gratification. He just couldn’t seem to keep his hands off his penis.

Our doctor put my husband on an antidepressant, but my husband quit taking it because he couldn’t get an erection. Our doctor suggested he not give up, but try other types of antidepressants which might not have that side effect, but my husband chose to give up entirely on antidepressants. I definitely think he was suffering from depression, probably major depression. I think most people don’t realize how big the difference is between depression and major depression. The symptoms you described - low energy, difficulty sleeping, loss of appetite, not being able to remember names (having all at the same time) are definitely very strong symptoms of major depression. I’m so sad for you that you had to suffer from such horrible treatment. Reading what you wrote, Yes, I think you definitely were put through spiritual abuse. They never sent you to a psychiatrist for the purpose of prescribing antidepressants? That’s just bad. Very, very bad.


In my husband’s case I really wish our doctor had referred him to a psychiatrist (or maybe he did, but maybe my husband refused to go). A psychiatrist might have been able to recommend an antidepressant to begin with that had a much lower chance of interfering with erections. I think now that my husband, in his mentality, equated having an erection with being a man. It was as if he had no value, in his own mind, without an erect penis. He wouldn’t even try to work through it, wouldn’t even try other antidepressants, and could not accept that there are other ways to sexual pleasure in the meantime, while we worked this out. I think the biggest problem is that he just lacked the ability to emotionally bond with his wife. So, I think you’re correct in seeing that there was an underlying problem that wasn’t being treated. I think a lot of men may turn to self-pleasuring as a form of self-medication for an underlying mental distress.


So, yes, it sounds like the church’s program for “Sex addiction” is really just treating symptoms. Perhaps a lot of men who are suffering from an actual glitch in the brain chemistry turn to pornography just to “feel” something pleasant, to self-medicate. And it’s no wonder, with all the pressure the church puts on people. I definitely think the church freaks out about sex. Instead of urging and demanding people go to the Temple regularly, the church should be telling couples to set aside specific nights of the week as “sex nights” where the couple schedules nothing else that night but romance and sex (and has a regular 2nd home for the kids to spend the evening). It bothers me so much that this essential, indispensable, and inherent need is not made a REQUIREMENT. Sexual bonding with emotional bonding is the glue that holds a marriage together. A couple cannot become ONE without it. Good sex will keep people together. It’s number ONE in my book. When I remarry or find a permanent partner, sex WILL be scheduled. I think it should scheduled at least 3X a week. If the church REALLY cared about strong marriages and strong families it would make this a requirement and totally get rid of stupid things like Temple attendance.


I’m really sorry for what you’ve been through. I wish I could have had a husband who truly loved me as you express that you loved your wife and made her your #1 priority.


I want to commend you for having the courage to come online and talk to us about what you went through. I can feel the emotion in what you say, and it leads me to believe you do have the ability to emotionally bond, something I had discovered much later had been a crucial thing missing in my husband’s mind.


I commend you for your courage and openness.

I sympathize with the plight of wives who suffer as a result of their husbands problems. I helped my wife form a local support group, a Sister program to the churches ARP program. The simplistic and demonizing “sex addict” approach shows a Lack of understanding root mental health issues affecting men leads to increase the pain and fear of spouses. I am confident my marriage was salable if not for the damage done by the dogma of these sex addiction programs.

The crux of my message is that I do believe porn/masturbation is an issue affecting marriage...making a small problem into a marriage killer is malpractice....we should increase awareness so families are not unnecessarily harmed.

GNPE Wrote:

>
> Men want to screw (or at least watch screwing)
> young, slender, women who have huge boobs and can
> suck a basketball thru a garden hose, and not be
> lectured about tithing or temple attendance?
>

I'm so glad I'm a not a man and have to think of women in these terms.

My response: Wait until you meet a woman (or women, like I have) that like to watch porn. I married a woman who loves it...and dated a few that did, too.

No, they weren't abused and agree to watch it because they have been programmed...they watch it when I'm not around. And my wife and I watch it together once in a while.

The fact that someone wants to watch porn--man or woman--is no crime. And in my experience it's not excessive. It's once in a while. It's not a "need" it's a "want" lol and relatively rare. But there's no shame in it and no judgement, like there is in that cult.

I can only imagine if my ex (a devout LDS) had ever even known that I watched porn. It was OK for her to use toys, perform oral, and other things....but porn is the devil (along with multiple ear piercings, coffee, and shopping on Sunday.)

Sheesh.

It is very interesting how perspectives change when leaving the church. After a while, the guilt subsides and for the first time in a man's life, he can watch porn, fap, and live guilt free. If my wife doesn't feel like sex some evenings, she tells me to do "it" to myself. She is totally open to me watching porn and doesn't feel threatened by it. She will only laugh the next day if I wake her up while I am in the act by shaking the bed. We are in our forties but once we left the church suddenly whatever we did became okay. No more guilt. I am very thankful to her for not being such a prude. She doesn't watch porn or masturbate herself (or so she says) but does enjoy the occasional movie with copious amounts of sex scenes. ie: Nymphomaniac on Netflix.

The thing that makes Sexual Intercourse OK is (UNMENTIONABLE) secret handshakes done between the partners in the MORmON secret handshake palace AKA "THE" temple. Everything else is pornography.

its called the MORMON HOUSE OF HANDSHAKES

I am a nevermo (never a Mormon.) The men I knew in my younger days ALL looked at porn. And I mean all of them. Back in the pre-internet days it was Playboy, Penthouse, and whatever else they could get their hands on. And honestly, there was no harm in it. They all had long term girlfriends, eventually got married, and raised families. They pursued their education, often went to grad school, and worked hard at their careers.

As young women, we simply expected it. We figured they were normal, healthy, red-blooded men. Sometimes we would pick up a magazine and flip through it to see what appealed to them.

As a friend of mine used to joke, "men are simple." They get excited by seeing naked women. It would probably be a disaster for the human race if they did not. Some women enjoy looking at porn as well.

The Mormon church is obsessed by sex. This is the same church where bishops often ask the youth if they masturbate. This is the same church which, for a period of time in the 70s forbade oral sex between married couples. The Mormon church has no idea what "normal" is when it comes to sex.

I would say that you have to be the judge of whether your porn use falls under what might be considered normal and acceptable. For instance, if the porn you are looking at advocates violence towards women, that would not be a good thing. If *all* you are looking at is porn, then your life is lacking balance. But if all you are doing is occasionally looking at people engaging in sexy times, I wouldn't worry about it.

One thing I will caution you about -- porn is not reality. While some couples pick up ideas through watching porn together, it would be unwise to expect that your partner behave like some sort of porn star in bed.

In the Mormon mind, sex addiction is when someone gets caught (or admits to) viewing porn once, gets threatened with "eternal consequences", and then gets caught a second time.

Seriously. Getting caught twice can get you labeled an addict. Just once can get you labeled "probably an addict".

Same as with beer. If you have one, then in the Mormon mind, you are just one more beer away from shuffling down the gutter in torn, dirty clothing, begging for spare change.

In short, Mormons have no clue what an actual addiction is.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> In short, Mormons have no clue what an actual
> addiction is.

...even while they are completely addicted to their stupid blood and soul sucking MORmON religion. There is some irony.

The first job for all religions is to convince people there's something wrong with them so the religion can fix them or save them from themselves. But what if the people they're talking to have pretty good lives? What if the world isn't beating them down? What if they're good people? Rather than saying, "You're fine, stop worrying, just keep on like you are," religion invents new sins and problems, or inflates small things into major issues. Not many people do truly horrible things, but almost everyone has sexual urges, so, hey, let's make all sorts of things about sex sinful.

When it comes to Mormonism, focusing on sex, making masturbation a horrible thing, accusing men with normal sexual appetites of being sex addicts, is a smoke screen to hide the failures of Mormonism. "YOU are the problem, not the church, you sick, perverted slave of Satan!"

LDS women, who were sold the BS fantasy that temple marriage to a worthy priesthood holder and having a kids early and often would lead to a life of perfect happiness, are willing to blame something other than the Church for their imperfect marriage and family life. "Ah-HA! All my problems are because my priesthood holder is no longer worthy! No wonder the magic isn't working!"

OP I like what you said here because I think it's spot on:

"Most sex addicts are diagnosed by clergy, wives, or online surveys. And the "diagnosis" is never questioned. No one gets a second opinion. When a "disease" like "sex addiction" carries with it such powerful and tremendously harmful connotations....it is extremely reckless to throw labels around or to assume a bishop or an online survey are sufficient to be a definitive diagnosis. But it is my belief bishops and wives are "diagnosing" sex addiction all the time and NO ONE IS QUESTIONING THE DIAGNOSIS!!!!

I'm a dentist...to diagnose something as simple as tooth decay a person must graduate from a accredited school, attain state lisence, take needed radiographs, a proper oral exam. Failure to diagnose properly leads to malpractice claims or loss of license."

I am a federal adjudicator in the medical field. A medically determinable impairment (MDI) in my agency must be diagnosed by an acceptable medical source (i.e. an M.D., DO, or PhD). They are the only ones who can diagnose an MDI that can be legally recognized. I wish you would sue the Bishop and the church for slander. There is culpability in labeling someone as a "sex addict" when it's not true. They are not experts. I have seen asshats bishops and local leadership (RS pres, blah blah blah) make actual mental diagnosis such as ADHD, Depression, Drug Addiction - as if it were fact.

Bottom line any red blooded human male will masturbate. If he doesn't he should have his testosterone levels checks, and maybe there is a cardio problem. Dr. Oz once said that the boner is a dipstick to cardio fitness. If a man does not wake up w/ a woody - there's probably a problem.

The elephant in the room here is that these Bishops support a cult that was founded by a man who was out of control (i.e. seducing children for sex). Joe Smith had multiple child and teen brides (e.g. Helen Mars Kimble). I'm sorry you had to go through all that. At least your out. Remember moderation and balance in all things. M is not evil but natural. I look at porn probably once per month, but masturbate probably twice per week and have sex w/ my wife a few times per week. I'm satisfied. What does the average male to in the porn and M department? I don't know, but I am probably low average for a 50+ year old dude. Good luck my friend.

Just questions: Would you have chosen a different wife? Are you honest? Would the wife or partner of another choice be honest? Could you actually live honestly your fantasies with a real woman? Are you capable of love? Are you peaceful in your soul? Do you love and forgive yourself or are you stuck? Would you accept what you claim in your wife/partner to do? What are your expectations?

I think there is something you have not come to terms with about you. It’s easy to blame, but hard to own it.

Jacking off is normal, but having intimacy outside your relationship always creates or represents mistrust of some kind. Naked people having sex is ok. We all do. But, if that fullfils you, marriage will never be the friendship or partnership of lasting and trusting love.

IMHO

Extractor41 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I am looking for people, groups, blogs of Mormons
> who have been forced into these programs by
> bishops and well meaning wives.

ANY woman / wife who had any sense at all and any real concern for her husband /mate would NEVER subject her husband to that kind of scrutiny and the following unavoidable attendant RUINOUS stigmatization that comes along afterward, any more than a loving man with real concern would routinely beat his wife just to make sure that she stays in line.

All Grocery stores, even in Utah, used to be LOADED with pornographic material that was openly displayed. It was "porn" for women. It was called "romance novels" and it was OK sex based fantasy material / porn because it was literary porn instead of photographic porn and because it was intended for females, not males.


....what the Hell do MORmONS think that they are looking at when they have sex to make all of those MORmON children????


> My concern is
> that we are taking good men, labeling them "sex
> addicts", forcing them into bull shit programs
> that have no scientific basis or proven success,
> and ruining lives just like mine. It is a very
> shameful issue and I would like to shed light on
> this increasingly common mormon practice.

The MORmON church has a long established history of sick, demented, perverted, toxic, pathological ideas/ notions/ practices when it comes to sex, including ways for married couples to sin equal to adultery ie MORmON ASSpostHOLE John Henry Smith testifying in the name of Christ that any sexual intercourse for a married couple with out the specific intention of creating a pregnancy was the same as adultery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOPxsXUV6bg

Allowing MORmONS and MORmONISM to manage ANY aspect of your life
is a grave mistake, that DEFINITELY includes your sexuality, a area where MORmONISM would just as soon rape you as do anything else !!! !

.....Not only are all men porn addicts, but ALL women are porn purveyors, having pornographic style female anatomy (barely) concealed underneath their clothes !!!!! that they will eventually expose one way or another!!!!! to one extent or another !!!!


(STUPID ASS DAMN MORmONS !!!!)

Masturbation is normal and healthy.

This link was one of many that popped up when I Googled that statement:

https://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/5-reasons-you-should-masturbate-tonight

Please Google and read for many sources, including professional medical and psychology sources.

The research on porn use presents a slightly different picture, one that suggests moderation (not overuse or abstinence) is healthy:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hero/201603/is-porn-good-us-or-bad-us

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/sex/2012/03/porn/


I'm sure the "therapy" you received mandated total abstinence for both activities.

And, wow. I now see why you, obviously adept with Google and someone I read as an active Mormon, braved this exmo board seeking support information. I tried multiple ways to search for specific support, but was inundated with sites selling or offering sexual and/or partner abuse therapy/support of some type.

It might help to go with more general search terms. I found this site from "abusive therapy":

http://www.survivingtherapistabuse.com/your-stories/vincents-story/

Fair use excerpt:

"In my opinion, the patient’s well being and functioning has very little importance due to the blind adherence to the ideas of the clinic’s founder (who creates an almost cult-like atmosphere)."

Though the purpose of Vincent's therapy was different, I saw strikingly similar results to yours from having been abused in therapy, and having read his story, I'm not so sure that you need to seek such specialized (specific) support. Stating to a secular therapist that you were abused in therapy may be enough to get the support and healing tools you need.

On a more personal note, I'd like to make a difficult offering. Though you may see your wife as "well intentioned," she is an adult whom I asume to have been observant enough to "notice" and/or support therapy for your so-called "addictions," she seems to have ignored those powers concerning your on-going mental and spiritual deterioration. In other words, sir, her self-interests reigned supreme in regards to your health. She may have been taking the advice of "authorities," and though that is part and parcel to many types of religious indoctrination, she is not blind. Were it me, I would be asking some hard questions in that area, of a new therapist, of myself and of her. One deserves more from such a deep investment in another.

On a side note, most here won't care about your faith choices, as long as you return the favor. :) Most here will care to know how you are doing, so please let us know.

Welcome to the board, and my best to you.

(More) women seem to be obsessed - obsessive about the Molly / Peter model of marriage / relationships & family.


Yes, I agree, men are often a bit simpler in their priorities / likes, which seem to revolve around sex, food, shelter, etc.
A stimulating career & a shiny car are bonuses!

What you have been subjected to is evil...pure unmitigated evil. The cult is toxic and in too many cases fatal. I was discouraged from masturbating by my father. But he never beat me or shunned me for it or demanded I go before the bishop and confess either. I may have suppressed the memories but I can't remember being asked if I masturbated in an interview. I would NEVER has confessed to doing it regardless. None of anyone's fucking business but my own.

Haha this is so much like those Mormon run prisons for hire...imma guess some well connected kids of the big guys are reaping the benefits of this porn scam...like fish in a barrel the field is ready for harvest...how convenient they've made every wife want to be a victim of the porn club...and every bishop the referee to call the foul shots...a fly on the wall in a bishops office the last five years would likely be wobbly from all the tears about hubby watching porn...sadly it's become a stick to beat every sorry wanker with and some just love a good beating...so sorry buddy...it gets better...you've just been let out of prison...enjoy your new guilt free toxic people free life...I know...it takes a while

I spent so many years as an amateurbater... I was SO proud when I finally became a masturbater.

Thanks, Boner!!!

What you accomplished, you did on your own. I just stood by and cheered you on with an occasional comment about form and motion.

I’m glad you set a high expectation and achieved it.

Now, as your coach, I’ll remind you that without intentional daily practice giving it your all, you’ll find your performance abilities slipping.

I don't know what to say except I am so sorry. This was a horrible thing that was done to you.

Dear Extractor,

I looked at the certified sex addiction therapist web site, and see it was founded by Carnes (who I am not familiar with). The certification consists of four weeks of training, plus 30 hours of supervision by another CSAT supervisor. Needless to say, the organization is not linked to or overseen by any legitimate national body (e.g., social work, psychology, or counseling), and I would bet the only paid staff is Carnes himself, with maybe a secretary or two.

To become a CSAT, you are not required to have a license, but merely a master's degree, a Bachelor's plus five years of experience. This type of "vanity" board certification is a real danger to the public, who rely upon these supposed assurances of quality and competence.

If your CSAT counselor was licensed, you could make a complaint to the state licensing board which regulates their profession. Another option would be to consider a malpractice lawsuit, if you are still within the statute of limitations.

These kinds of "sex addiction" abuses bear a strong resemblance to the "conversion therapy" of homosexuals, which has been outlawed in some states. Here's a link to a Slate article re a novel lawsuit against this therapy using the consumer protection bureau in the state: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/02/new_jersey_gay_conversion_therapy_case_blocked_expert_testimony_could_be.html

To my knowledge, there is only one legitimate national organization for sex therapy accreditation, the 50-year-old American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists (AASECT).

Best wishes in your journey towards healing.